no boys allowed in the room!!!!

i'm just posting pictures of cher! it's ok! you're def not alone.

can def ID with your first paragraph. i used to spend sooo much time on the phone as a teen, but i didnt feel like i had to perform on the phone back then. long silences were ok

Maybe I should post pictures. But I'd just post pictures of Brandon Curtis and Daniel Kessler and no one wants that. Ha!

I think that the long-times-on-the-phone thing were mostly about not ever having your own space while being a teen. Now I have a whole damn flat of mine own, I guess being on the phone to get space isn't so important? I dunno.

and let us let this thread be as much of a coffee and chat w/ a girlfriend as it can be. i need one of those, too.

xp oh that's true, i hadn't thought of it that way. it seemed like such an affront when mom would pick up the other line and start telling me to get off the phone. like, get out of my space!!!

(I only got online again to post the last chapter of the last book of the Deep Field trilogy, how did I get sucked into the gurl thread, you ladies and the conversations here are far, far too interesting!)

omg @ DF - is it new stuff??

No, no, I'm posting all of the old, original DF stories on AO3, one week at a time. Lots of it has been re-edited and "remastered" but it's still basically the same stories. This is the very end of LIAWOD I'm posting now. It feels like the passing of an age, but it's been so fun to see all those characters again. LOL.

I have done a new story in the ~Deep Field Universe~ but there's no way I'm posting the URL on ILX.

haha the worst was when one of your parents picked up the line to tell you to get off the phone and you were ~talking about sex~ and it was so embarrassing because OMG OMG how much did you hear. What's even funnier was that usually it was my Dad shouting at me because he wanted to get his computer to talk to some other computer in California, and it was supposed to be ~work~ but thinking back on it, he was probably posting to some early 80s proto internet discussion group, oh dear.

my friend's dad secretly taped our phone conversations using a hidden tape recorder in the ceiling that he had connected to the phone line (which was legal at that time in that place because it was in his name)

omg did you totally die

!!!!!!!!!!!

That is so fucked up! Why did he do that?

i had one best friend who went to a different school so we chatted on the phone all evening or met up to eat Monster Munch and listen to shitty reggae tapes
we haven't much kept in touch but she was the only person I would chat to for so long. I realllllly hate the phone now, can just about bear it with my husband.
anyway she has just had a baby! determined to be a better friend.

oh wait I just re-read, it was your FRIEND'S dad, not even your own? uuughhhh

yes i did die but then i kind of mentally reveled in the fact that he knows things about me that he can't unknow and he also can't let me know he knows, so who's uncomfortable now? ha

he was trying to conduct surveillance on his wife, who he believed to be having an affair (he was right but goddamn can you just talk to her about it?!)

i remember girls getting someone on the 3rd line and not telling the other person, people getting busted for gossiping that way

OK, that is super fucked up. Like - you think your wife is having an affair so you spy on your entire family and all their friends? It sucks, but still, confront her, don't take everyone else down with her. x-post to LL

It was suuuuuuper fucked up!

It's less of the secrets-sharing I miss, but more of the mundane chit chat - my BFF and I used to talk on the phone every night before I moved here, for at least an hour. That's why I like this thread, but also the ILS threads - the serious convos are great, but I love just shooting the shit with the women.

Cher was so freakin hot in Mask. I loved that movie when i was a kid.
Now I want a giant spiral perm.

I loved that movie so much.

I didn't use the phone that much as a teen! I knew that teens "did" that and I wanted to want to, because I was supposed to do that, but I just didn't have those kinds of friendships iirc. I had some friends but I think we, like, DID stuff, like go on church trips and bike rides and swim, but I don't remember hanging out for hours talking. I think I had books and my mom for that and friends were more like a social minefield that was sometimes also mean to me.

I can't remember the details of a lot of my childhood tbh.

(If my friends were mean to me, I was also unthinkingly critical and cutting to them, probably--I was not a kind young person.)

I definitely in high school told someone it was admirable that she didn't care about fashion--I thought she was frumpy and out of style but we were also v religious (her even more than me, she married a minister and moved to Mexico) so that kind of denial was encouraged. Anyway, she got mad obv because she HADN'T renounced fashion at all and I was insulting her. That kind of thing.

Terrible word + picture meme on fb the other day alerted me to the existence of this quote, which made me think of Lechera for various reasons actually:

“I used to think I was the strangest person in the world but then I thought there are so many people in the world, there must be someone just like me who feels bizarre and flawed in the same ways I do. I would imagine her, and imagine that she must be out there thinking of me too. Well, I hope that if you are out there and read this and know that, yes, it's true I'm here, and I'm just as strange as you.”
― Frida Kahlo

that stuff about your youth is heavy.
i have mixed feelings about that quotation

this whole convo about friends has made me unpleasantly maudlin, like in a mournful way.

It doesn't feel heavy! But it also feels like it happened to another person. :) I don't feel like I became "me" until I was in my mid-20s or so.

Sorry about the quote btw, it was just a thought.

The funny thing about the woman who posted the Kahlo quote to my feed is that she's a total norm imo, but maybe she's not so normal in the Midwest, and even norms can be freaks on the inside.

Hm. My friends also weren't what you'd call rebellious and were mostly extremely "nice" girls. I, otoh, wanted to break things and fuck things up but was too controlled and wasn't accepted by any actual "bad" kids so I stuffed it down inside, I guess. I was pretty normal too on the outside.

Oh god I must be a terrible person, because that quote was on Tumblr with a bunch of Kahlo paintings above it, and I totally reblogged it, mostly because the paintings were awesome, but also because I liked the quote. But really, I guess what else are these image memes for but to prove what an awful person you are to the world.

http://captainawkward.com/2014/04/11/563-i-have-a-hard-enough-time-making-friends-for-myself-how-do-i-navigate-the-special-hell-that-is-arranging-playdates-for-my-children/

This specifically about making mom friends (something I'm not personally that interested in doing bc I feel like I can't devote enough time to my core group of beloved friends (hi LL I miss u boo <3)) but also contains great advice about making friends in general when you feel like a weirdo.

I liked the quote too! To the extent that I was being negative about it, it was in line with the ilx joek thread about picture memes, most of which are let's be honest, pretty bad (and also frequently wrongly attributed). I wouldn't have remembered or repeated it if it hadn't resonated for me!

I talked to my Mum on the phone for about an hour this morning, which kinda helped a little. It's good that we are both old enough now that we can kind of talk woman to woman, about our crushes and ridiculous things like that (and trying to stay off politics, because we agree too much and just start shouting, and off gender issues, because we disagree and also start shouting). And she natters on about Harrison Ford for a bit, and I natter on about my current crush's odd lack of eyebrows and she laughs and says "oh, now that sounds familiar, no wonder you have a crush on him". And then she started teasing me that she was going to go and see his band, because they are playing in Vermont, near where she lives! But then the phone starts crackling, and a reminder of how very very far away she lives, and how shit international lines are.

She told me to do some gardening, which kinda helped. But not really.

Also have any of you heard the This American Life ep where a woman (Starlee Klein iirc) makes tapes of her own oral history for a new friend? It's her solution to the problem of new friends not knowing your history/secrets.

oh don't be sorry! i just have mixed feelings about it, they're not strong, just mixed!
no one is a terrible person*

*there are some exceptions

branwell your mom sounds like a gem

hi carl <3 ;) <3
you are in good company as the many friends of lechera who also have infants have schooled me on what to expect. my problem lies in the fact that everyone i usually turn to is in the same situation -- newborns.

OMG how awkward. Like, imagine if someone gave you a tape of their oral history. It would be like a mixtape that was too personal to listen to, but too awkward not to, and wow, if someone ever made one of those for me, I think I would back away slowly and go to great lengths to never, ever meet that person again. x-post now

or little babies, like <2
the ones whose kids are getting a little older are starting to come back around though
maybe i should start making phone dates with them

i think i made it partially through that ep and had to stop because it was too much and her voice (sorry)

Wait, LL, are you parenting (or about to be parenting), or are you trying to deal with a social circle of friends who are all now parenting?

I just seem to have accepted that parenting is a cliff off which my friends disappear. And sometimes they reappear after 16 years when their progeny are able to drive themselves, but mostly they don't. It has got to the point when, even if I just hear that a new friend is "trying for a baby" then I start distancing myself now, because it's easier to do it before you've established an intimacy which will have to be broken, than go through the disappointment of when they fall off the baby cliff. I also recognise this is probably counterproductive, but it's just hard, bitter experience. I know this makes me a terrible person.

I am with you Branwell Bell on the whole tape thing. I would not be comfortable with that in the least. Also LL don't one of our mutual friends have a story about SK in which she comes off as a huge jerk? That always colors my feelings about her work.

trying to deal with a social circle of friends who are all now parenting?
^^ my closest personal circle primarily at this moment + everyone else who is already medium-lost
this is not something i desire for myself, i just miss them like super bad.

i think kelz had a story? right?

For me it's not just the existence of my baby but also being really tired all the time and being the kind of person who needs a fair amount of me time/quiet time. I'm going to bed at 9:00 every night and on weekends trying to keep my house my descending into utter chaos and maybe reading a little.

Also it's tough to spend more than a couple hours away from the baby without getting into the logistics of breast pumping and milk storage. That will ease up in the coming months when she starts eating some food food.

Gotcha, LL. It is an odd phenomenon to go through. Someone once described it as being like when suddenly all of your friends sprout this new, incredibly time-consuming hobby and you can kind of learn to deal with it, and even enjoy watching them enjoying their hobby, but you're never going to be sharing that hobby, and the sadness of feeling that they would really rather be hanging out with other people who share that hobby, too.

Maybe I should join a nunnery, but I guess all the women in nunneries share a weird hobby in that they're into this god thing, which, again, I can watch people enjoying, but not participate in, so I guess that's out.

BUT what has been lovely for us and kept us from feeling too isolated is having people over (also I welcome people inviting themselves over since apparently time dilation is a side effect of reproducing and I will think "I miss my pals I should invite them over" and then two months have passed) and also afternoons out at baby friendly bars/restaurants.

Basically without being too sappy I love my friends and would be super sad if I fell off a parenting cliff. I actually don't feel like I want to just hang out with people who have kids at all. Hell's bells I don't even like reading parenting message boards outside of the occasional need to reassure myself that bright orange poop is a common experience and nothing to call the doctor about.

xp yeah Kelzzzzz had the story but I wasn't totally sure it was SK nor can I remember what the details were.

I just remember that SK was a jerk to my friend and therefore I view all of her work product with skepticism.

One more thing well two more:

I think with friends who have kids if you want to keep them in your life it requires a little more outreach on your part, at least at first. That CA post says to invite people to a thing twice and if they refuse, hang back and see if they reciprocate. I think with new parents you have to give them more chances before waiting for the reciprocal attempt at contact but then if your friends rebuff your invites, you can say "Yeah okay they want to hang out with people who have kids and not me." But being a new parent can be isolating and I don't think anybody should assume that it comes with a desire to have all new friends. You just have to put in the extra work for a bit both with reaching out and maybe being the one who comes to them.

Other thing: I like talking on the phone! Jesse and I talk on the phone a lot and it's easy because there's no pressure to make it an event and if I get busy or just get tired of talking I can say so and we hang up. Anyway LL I will talk with you on the phone bc I get tired of typing, too.

I say "you" up there but I'm not talking to anybody specifically just a general you.

i love you too carl and that is why i keep on holding on -- you'll come back around eventually!

You just have to put in the extra work for a bit both with reaching out and maybe being the one who comes to them.
see, i totally know all that already -- esp this
i've been told over and over, and i understand. my problem is that 1) this is very tiring to do with all of my best friends at the same time and there's a 2) but it's totally selfish.

Also I just remembered something
It's spraaaaaang breaaaaaaaaaak

I'll flash you my boobs later in celebration.

lollllllll @ recording a history of your life for a new friend. holy shit. and hey, here are all the poems I wrote in university, the links to the Sinister archives, and my Blogger blog from 2002. No one deserves that pain and awkwardness.

That article/letter-response about making friends is sort of good as an overall thing, not necessarily even just for parents, though it's kind of common sense (that i don't always follow, haha, unfounded fears/shyness are hard to shake...). I remain amazed at how social my brothers and I are considering that my parents tend towards being anti-social/socially-weird (like, my dad is a nice, handsome guy but an introvert and the only person he's hung out with for the past 20+ years is his gf. and my mom is still scarred from an ostracizing childhood, though at least her teaching work and living in a hippie small town of weirdos keeps her more social now). That said, my friends are pretty much all weirdos and artist types and thankfully a handful of them have recently had babies or will be having babies (and my bf just found out his half-sister is pregnant too! and she doesn't live all that far away).

Maybe i'm just going to throw low-key early-evening or weekend-afternoon parties at home or in the park and invite friends over and buy some chips and cookies and beer/wine. (And I'm still going to go to shows, dammit, they make baby noise-blocking ear protectors for a reason.) At some point it would be rad to bring this baby to NYC to meet "the gang". I know all kinds of people who have travelled with their young babies; I am not afraid.

Most of my friends back home have children, but 1. I enjoy hanging out with most children, and maybe especially now that I'm pretty sure I've missed the window to have my own 2. I don't really care whether we go anywhere as long as we talk, I am happy to be the one who goes to them. But I've been away 5 years now, and I see them in intense bursts twice a year. I miss everyone, my friends' kids as well as the friends themselves, and I don't really have a grasp of how things would feel if I was living in the UK.