no boys allowed in the room!!!!

tbh you were rong about LZ there but right abour weed imo

I'm pretty sure there were a lot of raised eyebrows among those reading this thread last night but who gives a shit?

But you are one of those lovely, gracious girls who are always pleasant and nice and friendly to everyone (even sometimes, I suspect, at what cost I don't know but I suspect it can be emotionally high) - this is not a diss by the way, Abbs, it's one of the things that I truly admire about you, that you're able to keep a Face which reads as positive, even in the face of grossness.

While I am one of those sharp, bitchy, spiky girls who believes in "being true to herself" so much that I cannot be bothered with showing ~nice face~ to ppl I read as "attacking" (YMMV) me or ppl like me or behaving in a way I read as Just Not Cricket.

So you being gross is read as an extension of cute or childlike or innocent, while me being gross is read as evidence that I truly am a disgusting, gross, hysterical crazy bitch.

I'm not saying this is the truuuuuuuuuuth, but this is how it often subjectively feels from inside my head

aw, there there
I don't think you're gross.

^^^not meant to sound condescending fwiw
also lol at me saying that after you call me nice 'n' neotenic

Ha! It's not that I'm gross. It's just that when I am lewd, it's read as supporting other character defects (let's not even open the vagina can-o-worms again) in a way that women who are able to maintain ~nice face~ will not face reproval for lewdness or gross outs.

Anyway this is making me uncomfortable bcuz it reads like "woe is me" whining when it's just commentary.

I have nice-face problems. I'm trying to not have them. We'll see how that goes and if you all hate me in 8 months (or less).

happy st-vagina's day!!!

i had a dream the other day about a b&w poster that was a women-and-sex-positive version of wall-o-ginas, with something witty written at the bottom

or maybe this actually exists?

We could kickstart to make that happen.

It's weird, it's like "maintaining ~nice face~" costs me such a high emotional drain - it's not a natural or easy thing for me - that I sometimes fear I can act resentful or suspicious towards women for whom it *appears* easy? It kind of took me up until $h1mura Curv3s to really understand or try to move beyond that suspicion, it's something I'm still working on.

If you can remember what the "something witty" was from your dream. Or Lechera could write/assemble something for us by repurposing romances, which I think is an excellent use for them.

WCC I hear you, I used to find a certain kind of nice-face exhausting. I've gotten past that a little bit now and it's just boring to me, but I can be smiley and stuff without really looking at people, without really seeing them or caring about them.

Maybe I have misjudged nice-face all these years as a distancing tool? It can put a nice fuzzy screen between you and other people, at least from your own point of view.

Can you explain a little more what you mean about "nice-face" please?

Being nice and pretending to care about what people are saying to you when you don't feel nice and don't care, that's my personal definition.

Or that you don't violently disagree with whatever they just said, that kind of thing.

Yeah, I just meant a more specific example or do you mean just as a general attitude?

It's not even about maintaining nice-face as a distancing tool (bcuz my natural face is anthropologist on mars "what's this? What's this?" which might also be exhausting) but that thing of maintaining nice-face in reaction to awfulness where my first reaction is to kick v v hard BACK like a tantruming schoolgirl from St Trinians (so much for the myth of women not being violent)

But I suppose there's protective nice-face as a kind of distancing nice-face.

Always being pleasant and consiliatory (consiliating?) and feminine and cheerful and upbeat and responding in a gracious and non-aggressive and non-defensive manner and being sweet and polite as a matter of course, even when -especially when- ppl are being rude or aggressive or patronising or insulting or saying things you know and can prove to be total bullshit.

That's ~nice face~ I guess?

Examples: every single time I do anything vaguely related to Scottish dance except for our normal rehearsals. Also when I come to work and have to be polite around colleagues, also when I go home to MI and have to see anyone except my own family, any time it's required that I be "properly respectful" of authority for its own sake when it hasn't proven anything to me, and so on.

I don't always hate being nice-face sometimes when it's my choice to do so, but I abhor HAVING to do it.

It's a weird thing bcuz it is totally a "feminine virtue"

And it's one of those strengths I can totally admire in ppl who can do it and bd diplomatic in situations where I'd like to kick in someone's teeth.

But at the same time, it strikes me as *exhausting* to have to do, and I'm a little afraid of the falseness of it, like it's a mask but it's also a kind of lying.

Yes, that's an important aspect that makes me squirmy that I've never put my finger on--thank you for that. It's a lie. I feel like a lie.

Like, I'mslightly afraid of women who can lie that easily. Are they also lying to me?

ppl are being rude or aggressive or patronising or insulting or saying things you know and can prove to be total bullshit

OK, yes. This all makes sense and it is awful and exhausting and a lie during the rare occasions that I feel the need to put it on. Thankfully, I don't think that I really encounter these situations that often in real life, or at least ones remarkable enough so that I get actively upset. I have mentioned this before but I think that I choose what to get heated over pretty carefully and willfully ignore some things that might bother others more because I'd find the alternative too trying. I think I'm pretty lucky in that my current and last several jobs have been in really women-friendly environments so that it's not something I generally encounter at work on a regular basis. I don't know how I'd react if it was tbh.

I have...a couple of friends who are nice-face all the time, because they are SO controlled w themselves, and v private people. It's difficult not to be neurotic about how they perceive me because I'm sure I'm never getting anything unfiltered from them. As long as they keep calling me to hang out or w/e I can only figure that they probably like me? But there's some internal algebra where I have to decide that the stress of never knowing where I REALLY stand w them is worth it to have their friendship.

If that math doesn't work out, though...it would kinda be over.

I think a lot of times people think that I am putting on a nice face when really, that is just my face. I don't hate people, for the most part. They can be exasperating, but most of the time I just find them kind of weird and interesting. Talking to someone I don't like (I do this a lot at work, like most people) is an opportunity to study that person, which makes it more interesting/easier for me emotionally.

I've never thought of this as lying at all. Lying is false enthusiasm and "I love your belt" (when it means "Look at that hideous belt")

i do this nice-face thing, i think. or at any rate i am often described as "nice" by people who i am acquainted with. i'm not saying it's not worth examining, but i think part of the reason i do it is to keep people at a distance until i'm sure i don't want to keep them at a distance.

i meant, people i'm acquainted with as opposed to friends.

I think a lot of times people think that I am putting on a nice face when really, that is just my face.

This too a little bit for me, tbh.

I have had to do this a lot with people I actively disliked at previous jobs but that was mostly when I was waitressing and/or bartending and was it was largely awful.

I think I'm pretty lucky in that my current and last several jobs have been in really women-friendly environments so that it's not something I generally encounter at work on a regular basis. I don't know how I'd react if it was tbh.

I don't know that I feel this way most of the time b/c things aren't "woman-friendly", most of the time I'm just bored with the people and with whatever I have to pretend to be doing, and I feel disagreeable, and the person I'm talking to doesn't really want to know me, they don't want to know what I think and they wouldn't like it anyway, so it's better to make what I feel like is the "real" Laurel very small inside and not let her out.

I'm so sad that this is one of the threads that I can't get to stay bookmarked…

I had no idea about low pH vaginal discharge (as in, this doesn't happen to me and I did not know it happened to others). That is amazing.

Oh but menstrual stain pro tip - take your jocks (<3) into the shower with you. Throw them on the floor while you do your thing, then wash out the stain with soap before you get out. Cheap and easy.

Also you to throw out a plug for cloth panty liners.

I think a lot of times people think that I am putting on a nice face when really, that is just my face. I don't hate people, for the most part. They can be exasperating, but most of the time I just find them kind of weird and interesting.

i am a bit similar - i find it hard to hate people, and i am in general 'nice'. but i think for me nice-face is mostly just what's less exhausting than the alternative. for me, engaging with someone means giving something of myself away. If they're someone i like, fine, but if it's someone who annoys me who i don't have any investment in then giving them more than politeness, even if it's anger, is draining and wasteful.

Relevant to our interests?

http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/full/516667215.jpg?Expires=1329236697&Key-Pair-Id=APKAIYVGSUJFNRFZBBTA&Signature=bUOzhtys8-db-VJm8gaW1xW484IqtClw9K5lqsmBX9vlocdq10sMr4qrDxT-s~F0o6pnVghHAlZD1N7qFVkA3fK1NyFO6dpcE0sH9cK1dQXAYs8IqthTAXu0oMU9-mLGipx9CUrETBO-4DSns-4chcoK38HnqlKK6HEJ~f8nuG4_

(I'm not sure if this will display properly, sorry if it doesn't)

That's by Kate Beaton, by the way.

<3 kate beaton <3

xps because i am slow.

willfully ignore some things that might bother others more because I'd find the alternative too trying.

i do this a lot but then i'm bothered by it later. a lot of the time i just don't have enough time to process what's bothering me so i do a default nice-face. and then when i've thought about things, i get really irritated.

i wish i could be quicker to react to things. (and then decide whether or not to keep my reaction to myself!)

but interacting with people can be really exhausting.

my family comes to mind with a lot of this.

<i>take your jocks (<3) into the shower with you. Throw them on the floor while you do your thing, then wash out the stain with soap before you get out.</i>

but hot water could set the stain! i always wash blood in cold water.

my family comes to mind with a lot of this

ha. yes.

yeah, i'm with Julia, cold water and soap (and what the hairpin's clean person described as 'fabric frottage')

my family are also the ppl who tell me i'm overreacting EVERY TIME i try to assert myself about something i find incredibly offensive. arrrgh.

i am trying to hone my abrupt-subject-changing skillz in the hopes of avoiding some of this.

xp re Kate Beaton - Oh god, I saw that on twitter and was just like YES.

The shower water isn't hot enough to set the stain, plus you're using soap to wash it out right away so there's not enough time for it to set.

I guess if you take boiling 1 hour showers this might not work.

Or maybe I have unusually soluble menstrual blood.

This is like that time that I washed my bra by wearing it in the shower. Really I'm all for all forms of this kind of thing.

Now that's just silly.

jocks could be my new favorite word
at least for today

carl agatha, i had that bookmark problem when i first signed up for ilx and again on the sandbox -- both times i deleted all my bookmarks and then previously unbookmarkable threads were bookmarkable. maybe i signed in and out also, i can't remember.

I discovered this by accident when i got zing and all my bookmarks disappeared, and suddenly i was able to bookmark things i wasn't able to

(this might be a problem if you've got a gajillion bookmarks)

on topic, i once had to go commando b/c i forgot to bring an extra pair to the gym, and felt very uncomfortable! but more psychological i think than physical discomfort

Kate Beaton is not displaying for me ;_;

I guess like "naturally chipper" vs "nice-face" is one of those things I find v v hard to read, or maybe it's hard for me to tell the difference between ppl who are genuinely lovely, ppl who do it as a distancing technique and ppl who did it as a policy and only years later you figure out they didn't like you v much.

Perhaps it's difficult for me to grok bcuz I'm not naturally a sunny disposition, I want to blame "ooh moody Celtic blood" etc but that's hard to tell bcuz I have just come out of spending 3 years in such an awful situation I forgot the capability to be pleasant? And I'm feeling like I'm in a depressurisation zone right now trying to figure out who I am again so who knows who I am.But I've always been manic or depressed, seldom nice.

But y'know, like I said, it's something I'm trying to work on, not being so suspicious.

Then again, I don't find "the alternative" that exhausting. If someone pisses me off, I blow up at them, they go away, I don't have to deal with them, and I return to happy v quickly! Problem solved! :-D

This works less well in long-term situations, mind.

xp I don't know of I've done enough troubleshooting re the bookmarks yet and I certainly haven't asked for help or researched it so I don't know. I keep hoping it will just fix itself.

Oddly enough, I don't feel pressured to act nice when I don't feel nice. Don't know whether that's because I generally am nice (I am pretty personable and I generally like interacting with people) or am in a profession where bitch face is a perk, or maybe nobody expects govt employees to be pleasant so nobody cares when I'm surly.

Or yeah, like WCC, I'm comfortable being straightforward about when I am not feeling nice.

I got a lunch hour manicure because my cuticles, especially around the top of my nails, gets all dried out and jerky-like in the winter and, you know, blood red nails = funtimes, and tonight I'm getting my hair cut/colored and I'm feeling very... maintained right about now, and not entirely in a good way.

I meant to say that my practical manicure reasons are to get all the dry skin snipped away from my fingers, and the fun reason is to have my nails painted blood red.