no boys allowed in the room!!!!

Fuuuuuuck. That is good.

I've found some great girly tips on this website, ladies!!

http://lifedeathtoptips.tumblr.com/post/12785741553/sanitarycurves

oh my god

That site is pretty hilarious anyway, but that is just... mind-boggling.

Okay, why are you posting that here? I couldn't get beyond 'person who does/teaches yoga likes shit song, think that validates everything', but why here rather than the dedicated thread?

did we forget to mookieproofproof the thread again?

i found that post p interesting but maybe it's better to discuss on a thread where boys are actually allowed in the room, eh.

I sometimes wish there were an all female secret board on ILX whose members were at least as actively controlled as 77 to stop this nonsense. I know I've talked about this with Ms Agatha offboard.

Are women here unhappy with this thread being women-only? For it to be strictly women was how I've always interpreted it, but just1ne and a few others have said things showing you disagree/don't want that.

I like having beauty tips AND romants ish AND feminist discourse AND James Franco in one place, but I also think a women-only space is valuable, and that would be my choice for tt. Y/N? Thoughts about starting a new thread to that end, if it isn't this one?

Sorry, Lech, I know this is torture for you! If we need a more defined thread, for chrissake let's agree on that and move on.

my take on it is that about half of us like the idea of a woman-only thread and about half of us aren't partic bothered one way or the other. i would be into a new thread + would post in it.

Yeah, I basically don't care one way or the other; where private thoughts are concerned, I am more protective of who's reading than who's posting. If everyone can read it anyway, I don't feel the need to formally exclude anyone. But that's me.

I habitually exclude everyone by not saying 85% of the things I am thinking (by choice, not because I am intimidated or w/e)

i have never been a huge participant in this thread (or any thread that isn't a cooking thread, for the past several months) so my opinion should probably not carry as much weight as those who are. there have been topics on this thread i am interested in. and others i am completely bored by or bothered by. i don't think i've ever been one to want any women-only thing though. i am not opposed to having men comment on and discuss women's issues, and i think it can be good a lot of the time. but i have a personal philosophy, increasingly as i get older, that is less gendery.

yeah i will fall into the habit of imagining this thread as a woman-only space and then remember, oh yeah, dudes can read it, so, it's true, it's hard to imagine creating a truly women's-only space on ilx (or the internet?) at all.

xp

faves thing about looking at this thread as a mod is seeing the dozens of cancelled out posts of men saying 'hey why come i no post here' – continuing that fine tradition
http://www.emilymagazine.com/?p=837 is the link in question

i think i would participate in a thread that discussed feminism and allowed men. or like a book thread. i am not that interested in feminist blogs for the past few years.

since I started student teaching this total Australian shepherd side has come out that I think is hilarious
nip nip

lol i just searched ilx for a nonblog "feminism" thread to revive for harbl and the results were hilarious.

It's fairly obvious from Just1ne's contributions to our many lovely clusterfuck threads that her problem is actually a personal one with me. And she is perfectly entitled to feel that way and express it however she wants, but it is fast becoming mutual.

I *do* want a woman only space, and one where it's romants issues AND feminist discourse and *hot boy du jour* all at the same time, like what "womens magazines" should be. But maybe that space isn't going to be on ILX and I should just dealwithit.gif

I think at one point I was surprised that people were objecting to men posting itt because I thought it was started in a light-hearted NO BOYS ALLOWED! sort of girls-only clubhouse sort of way and not in a serious safe space way. The safe space thing is sort of weird to me because it's not like men can't read the thread. I do respect the fact that other people feel such a thread is/would be useful although since it would never truly be women-only, and because I don't really feel an overwhelming need for such a space anyway, it's not a huge deal for me one way or the other.

it totally did start in that way; i just think it's become different things to different people over time.

I was actually gonna start a "Female Gaze / Queer Gaze" to have pictures of hott dudes and also discussion of hott dudes and societal conceptions of male hottness, but done in a way which *assumed* a female or queer gaze to start with. Not that straight men would be excluded, not at all, but that they would be exposed to the topsy-turvy experience (that all women and queer men face every day) of experiencing a world that does not cater exclusively their gaze and their desires. Because I think that would 1) be fun and gratifying and entertaining to look at/discuss boys and their hottness but 2) might also be an interesting social experiment and everyone might learn something.

But that is not the same as having an actual safe space where you do not have to deal with the fear of having to deal with ~all the awful stuff that Men On The Interweb Do~ (yes, even our nice, sweet ILX men who are princes compared to the wilds of other internet forums) or having to deal with that constant, reflexive fear that I feel like I live under. I get that many of you think this makes me an awful human being because I have this need to have a place to retreat to, but, y'know, I can't tell other people how to interpret my actions in ways that aren't automatically totally awful.

And the problem isn't so much men reading, it really is men who feel the *need* to stick their oar in, even when they've been told not to.

It's almost like, I can't stop people from looking at me, but I sure as hell can stop them from shouting at me, or touching me.

For me the point is not that content is secret, so I don't mind men reading it. I just don't want to hear their voices/opinions on every single topic esp if it is in fact about gender issues that I don't feel like having explained away or having excuses made for, because they have the rest of the world/internet for that.

Starting out lighthearted would have been fine if dudes respected it, but when they don't, it does force anyone who cares to get a little heavier on the topic than we might have liked. And that "policing" job is BORING AND A BUMMER, which is ANOTHER reason I resent men making it necessary.

This is now feeling awful, and even though I have typed out about 5 replies to that other thread, and then deleted them because I thought they would be interpreted the wrong way and ~cause trouble~, I still feel like I've made everything go horrible and wrong and got everything I didn't want to have to deal with, just through trying to say, in a polite and non-confrontational way, "can you please not do this thing, this is why it bothers me?"

are you on 77? there is a "girls and gays ws too" thread there. but also, you could start a woman-only thread with that post and see what happens from there? i don't think there's any such thing as a safe space on the internet or in the world for that matter, and yes, men might still be reading it, but i still think it would be cool? i'd be down; it seems like Laurel and Jenny would also be down?

For me the point is not that content is secret, so I don't mind men reading it. I just don't want to hear their voices/opinions on every single topic esp if it is in fact about gender issues that I don't feel like having explained away or having excuses made for, because they have the rest of the world/internet for that.

Also, THIS, over and over and over again.

Laurel you always manage to express things so perfectly, and succinctly, and smartly, and also in a way that doesn't come across as blunt and sharp as I know that I do.

Please can you just keep saying them, and I will just say "cosign what Laurel said" and keep my big ugly mouth shut.

I am not on 77. Given the history of 77 and stuff that went down in the Bad Old Days of ILX, I would not feel comfortable being on 77.

I know, I know, everyone can tell me "but it's not like you think it is, at all!" to their heart's content, but it's like... if you have experienced concentrated nastiness from certain people in the open part of a forum, just every instinct I have says "do not go into a closed off part with them" same as, if someone pulls your hair in the classroom with everyone there, there's no way you're gonna follow them into the toilets. It's just not a good idea.

oh i didn't mean to suggest you should join 77 if you object to it!

i want to start a rolling feminism thread for anyone who wants to participate and a rolling women-only thread but i am feeling very slow and uninspired as to how to start them.

For me the point is not that content is secret, so I don't mind men reading it. I just don't want to hear their voices/opinions on every single topic esp if it is in fact about gender issues that I don't feel like having explained away or having excuses made for, because they have the rest of the world/internet for that.

Disclaimer - I don't think anyone is wrong for feeling this way but that is something I can't relate to at all.

I want to hear everyone's voices/opinions on all topics - I think that's what makes conversations/threads interesting. If someone said the same thing about women's voices or posts on a thread or topic on ILX I'd be hugely pissed off. I just seems weirdly exclusionary and unfair to me to ask that of men in a thread.

i would put neither of them on 77, if that wasn't already clear!

xp

I do think you should start them, horseshoe, because you are so generally beloved around here it will not attract the automatic flybuzz of disapproval. :)

Just to clarify - I'm not opposed to people starting as women-only space and respect that to many people it would be a helpful and necessary thread.

but....what is this thread then>?

idk - I'm confused too

slumber party ouija time

but....what is this thread then>?

― high five delivery device (Abbbottt), Sunday, February 12, 2012 12:52 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i know! i don't know?

One last thing - I can see enormous value in irl truly women only groups but a women only thread on ILX seems like it would be like having a women only meeting group with a bunch of men eavesdropping outside the door. I have a hard time with that idea. It sort of negates the women-only part entirely for me.

Yeah, OMG, teh poor mens, it's not like they don't have ~the rest of the interweb~ to make their "go make me a sandwich" jokes or butt in for the 8 millionth time "but someone saying you're attractive is a ~compliment~!!!11" when you're trying to talk about street harassment and how it makes you feel.

It's just so awful and exclusionary that we have one tiny little thread on one tiny little messageboard where we do not automatically have to deal with that.

If I know there's a group of men hoovering around and eavesdropping then I'd rather invite them into the discussion than know they're out there forming opinions but not allowed to participate. Again - and I feel the needs to say this only so I won't be attacked - I'm just trying to explain why the idea is tough for me to find value in personally.

WCC - please don't start. I made a point of saying that respect that other people find it useful. I'm only trying to explain why it's tough for me to relate to that. :/

the problem i have is when is the last time a male ilx poster did that. if it was like that generally i would not read or post here.

x-post I never said it was awful.

For me the point is not that content is secret, so I don't mind men reading it. I just don't want to hear their voices/opinions on every single topic esp if it is in fact about gender issues that I don't feel like having explained away or having excuses made for, because they have the rest of the world/internet for that.

Starting out lighthearted would have been fine if dudes respected it, but when they don't, it does force anyone who cares to get a little heavier on the topic than we might have liked. And that "policing" job is BORING AND A BUMMER, which is ANOTHER reason I resent men making it necessary.

― one little aioli (Laurel), Sunday, February 12, 2012 5:40 PM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I just p. much agree w/ Laurel 100% here. See also: some thread on the Sandbox, I think, where I was offhandedly like "Here is a thing women experience!" and it turned into a forum for men to make sure that we were aware that women did not actually have that experience, and they should know, because they like, know some women. Gross.

disclaimer: I'm still getting all of my bookmarks together for this new login, so I'm out of the loop on a lot of threads I used to follow so I have no idea what the underlying issue to which some of you are referring is.

Please can you not use that name. How many more times do I have to ask that?

And I was *trying* to use humour to deflect a situation, but you want to read that as me "attacking" you? This is when I can't win, either way. If I say something straight out, my sharpness is going to be read as the wrong tone. If I try to make a joke of it, that's considered the same way. Anything I do, if you're going to read it automatically as an "attack" there's not much point in continuing the conversation.

It's fairly obvious from Just1ne's contributions to our many lovely clusterfuck threads that her problem is actually a personal one with me. And she is perfectly entitled to feel that way and express it however she wants, but it is fast becoming mutual.

the thing is, it's not like the reason i can't stand you is somehow outside of all this: the reason i can't stand you is BECAUSE of all this. and i'll say it again, because you probably didn't read it properly the first time: if you want people to read all your posts and interpret them as you meant them to be interpreted, it's a good idea to do the same for others.

I'm sorry! I actually just went "OMG FUCK I USED HER NAME" and came back to apologize. It was an accident. I'm really sorry.

fixed

Thank you, mod. :)

OK, thanks, mod and ENBB.

this is a hard thing to admit, but one of the reasons i like the idea of women's-only spaces is that i don't trust myself to necessarily say what i'm thinking on subjects dear to my heart in the presence of men. because of some deeply-ingrained desire for male approval. i wouldn't be surprised if this is part of why, say, Amanda and harbl don't see the need for such spaces, as they don't strike me as being much afflicted with this problem.

^^^lol things i will deny in the future if you ever cast them up to me :/