no boys allowed in the room!!!!

that is another thing that helps me when my brain gets crazy on me about this stuff. to think, i don't value people because they have the "willpower" to lose x amount of weight. the things i value are different.

the last time i was a size 16, i was pretty thrilled about it tbh

Gotten is a word, actually.

You also quit smoking, Erica!!! So many things not on that list I am sure you can give yourself credit on.

x-post Aw, thanks guys. You're totally right Abs about what I'll realize is most important. The things I listed are all way more important to me in the whole scheme of things and what ppl seem to put importance on is so completely ass-backwards. I'm just angry that I've spent so much time and energy on it all for the last 30 some odd years. That any of us have, really.

BULLSHIT.

lol Abs - I mostly quit. Still allowing myself to bum when drinking which is usually about once maybe twice a week and rarely amounts to more than 5 total. I'm OK with that because it's a lot better than a pack a day but I feel like I'm cheating saying I quit since i didn't do so entirely.

also you are all wonderful

and thank you - I feel better for having ranted and for the support.

<3

Ha I might have secretly started socially smoking, too.
I was seriously all ready to start again in March – 2 packs a day again because I was "thin" when I was smoking that much. Well how fucked up is that that a big part of me thought it would be wise to put fucking proven carcinogens into my body and not breathe well anymore and feel like an uncleaned bbq grill all the time in the idea of some potential of looking like a starving depressio again. Goddamn.

Also when I was smoking that much I was super poor and not spending money on FOOD and had not even a bicycle, getting everywhere by foot, so it wasn't just smoking that got me there, it was being at a personal nadir.

YMMV of course!!

yeah, take it from me, it is totally possible to smoke 2 packs a day and be a fatty.

Yeah. It's so fucked up but fear of gaining weight is def part of why it took me so long to even cut back this much. :/

there are so many fucked up emotional and self-image reasons why i haven't quit smoking ... i just don't even ...

I actually don't get how you can smoke 2 packs a day at all. I guess I probably have once or twice if that day also included a night out with booze. That's a lot of smoking though! Not nearly as bad as the old pres of BU who smoked 5 packs a day. How do you fit 100 cigarettes into 24 hours? HOW???

x-post - oh I very very strongly identified as a smoker and just couldn't imagine myself as someone who didn't smoke which is weird because ppl who don't know I smoke often find it strange to find out I do. Seeing myself as a non-smoker is really odd and prob part of the reason I keep allowing myself the social ones.

what's amazing to me is how people who do this stuff leave hobo marks on your psyche that other abusive people can immediately read.

― estela, Thursday, November 10, 2011 9:22 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

i missed this before and it is so true! and brilliant! y'all are amazing.

^^^

It is true, and I wonder how it's telegraphed, and I've seen it in action with certain people, but it's something that's hard to talk about because it can feel, even to yourself, like blaming the victim. But it is a thing.

There must be a facet of "this is what I deserve" in it, a passivity in certain moments.

i think it can sometimes involve a component of the abused person seeking out what's familiar but it needn't. i think estela was specifically referring to random driveby acts of cruelty.

The passivity is why I'm trying to learn to listen faster when someone is starting to border on manipulation in my hearing, because the speaker is judging you in microseconds, weighing their chances, and I don't hear them fast enough.

I've always had problems with this, too. I don't know if it's my bipolar-fed self-absorption or my auditory processing problems, but I often don't realize how much I'm being treated like a fool until later on.

You need to conjure my well calibrated bs detector -- it's what makes me good at my job!

I have so much to add to this convo abt moms and self worth and smoking but I feel like maybe we could start planning a fap so I don't have to type it all out. So much to tell.

god, i know, right?

Problem is, I live 100+ miles away from everybody. *cries*

1. I am standing on the shoulders of giants w/r/t anything I say on the matter of body image, although I am flattered by the props.
2. I am aces at wearing skirts in very cold weather and am happy to share tips and tricks.
3. I missed the big convo last night because I was attending a fundraiser for a trans-inclusive, feminist health center (I'm on the board) and being involved in something like that and seeing all of the amazing, confident people who have struggled with their bodies coming out to celebrate was pretty damn awesome. Also my gyn received a "golden speculum" award.

Your friend,
Jennya

uh, trans-inclusive, feminist health center sounds like my ideal place of employment tbh

I really hope that the award was actually a statue of a gold speculum.

I hope it actually was a gold speculum!

It was! The director made a good joke about the interns having to call the trophy shop and explain what they wanted them to make.

It's a great org. I'll talk about it off board or on 77 all day if you'd like.

I don't know how or when we would fap but it is a lifelong dream.

Looping back to my "therapy is awesome" drumbeat, I got involved with this org by googling "feminist therapy Chicago" which I wasn't even sure existed, and started seeing a counselor there and she was amazing. I mean, imagine feeling overwhelmed by the various demands society places on you to look perfect, and getting ridiculed bc you spend too much time trying to meet these standards, and then there's ANOTHER sexist beer commercial and a guy you've known and liked for years makes a rape joke on Facebook and tells you to quit being so humorless when you object and going to see a therapist and being like "Patriarchy! Rape culture! Insane, unattainable beauty standards!" and your therapist says "YES I KNOW."

She eventually moved out of town and recommended me for the board, which still cracks me up. "I've been a crying, anxious/depresso mess all over your office every other week for four years... Are you sure you want to recommend me for a position of responsibility here?"

catching up on what i missed last night. i <3 u guys.

It's not for nothing that there's a book for women called When I Say No, I Feel Guilty.

i just bought this! haven't read yet, but i rly need to learn to be more assertive/self-assured.

xp <3

also catching up and too overwhelmed to say more than I hear ya, sisters, and <3 and hugs to you all!

wishing we could have a ladies FAP -- everyone's so far away, like thousands of miles away from me, except just1ne -- who i still haven't met.

Kind of glad I missed this discussion last night because I was drunk and had eaten a big meal and had been holding my stomach in a bit (mainly because of crappy clingy fit of H&M top, I swear I'm never buying anything from them again) (oh also if you can hold your stomach in then it is air, not fat ~science~) and this whole thing makes me really depressed. Just the whole accepted concept that if you are a woman and you have a body then it's fair game for people to assess you by it. I even get way angry at my husband's friends etc for saying 'she could use a sandwich' about a skinny girl, like to show how right-on they are about realising the size 'real women' are or something but JUST SHUT UP.

I guess everyone likes sandwiches so maybe it's not such a bad thing to say.

you should say, "omg, what if she has a gluten allergy?"

then she could use a sandwich as a WEAPON

xpost - i've been reading this and i totally feel the same way. constantly feeling kind of ugly, avoiding cameras, thinking i should lose weight etc. ugh. how much time have i wasted on this stuff?

I even get way angry at my husband's friends etc for saying 'she could use a sandwich' about a skinny girl, like to show how right-on they are about realising the size 'real women' are or something but JUST SHUT UP.

Ugh, like thin/skinny women aren't real?

Sort of relatedly I have this whole rant about men who touch you when they talk to you or when they want to move past you. I work with a guy who does this, and I think it is related to his being a total mansplainer.

I have that rant about men who want to get past you in public like a bar or something, who touch you ON THE HIP OR WAIST, which is totally NOT a public touching zone, and is a pretty good way for a total stranger to get his drink spilled/be asked to never accidentally touch you again.

I am not above poking people in the back or shoulder with a stiff finger if they haven't moved after the 2nd or 3rd "excuse me", but that bears no resemblance to the proprietary waist-nudge.

On a similar note before I leave work, how often in old movies do you see a man motion for a woman to go somewhere in front of him and then put a hand in the small of her back to move her there?? Does anyone still do this? I haven't noticed but I discourage people who are not my friends or family from touching me so I wouldn't.

Ugh, like thin/skinny women aren't real?

"Real Women" is well, well on its way to becoming the new term for "fat women." I expect that we'll see the plus-size section of clothing stores renamed the "real woman" section sometime in the next few years.

Sort of relatedly I have this whole rant about men who touch you when they talk to you or when they want to move past you.

I've seen more women then men do this, actually.

i get pretty aggravated by that happening in bars. my favorite is when dudes try to give me directions somewhere when i haven't even asked. i was booking it to the neighborhood post office the other day and arrived with a bag full of packages just about 30 seconds after they locked the door, and was standing there all pissed off because now i had to get a bus to the postal station with late hours. dude walks out of the store next door and says "you look lost." i said (quite evenly, not angry at all) "I'm not lost. I live here." he gets all offended and is like "i was just trying to help. you look lost." arrrgh! how many people are lost who are obviously going to the post office, now?!

i just.. i have always had to be pretty self-sufficient and feel like i get this knee-jerk reaction a lot, as if not needing people to do things for me is off-putting/intimidating/problematic

"I was just trying to help you get lost, girlie."

"Real Women" is well, well on its way to becoming the new term for "fat women." I expect that we'll see the plus-size section of clothing stores renamed the "real woman" section sometime in the next few years.

Lane Bryant already refers to its rewards program as "Real Woman Dollars" which is like item #19852 on my list of Shit I Hate about Lane Bryant (in no particular order).