no boys allowed in the room!!!!

the animal we ate
the edge serrate
human freight
gentle trait
a better rate

god this song is TERRIBLE! it sounds like enigma with a rhyming dictionary

congrats on your wedding ffm btw. the pics were fab and you looked so genuinely happy.

No! Don't never mind! I want to hear more of your observations, Amanda. If you want to email me that is okay but damn, I am always up for a little reflection/deconstruction of the dynamic of the public spaces I inhabit.

Can I just say that I love and will always love Shabooh Shabah and The Swing? Whatever my feelings on subsequent INXS albums those two remain all time favorites.

I do have a nudge of a feeling that ilx is at some kind of low w/r/t being populated by people who don't know each other irl. Maybe I just feel that way b/c a lot of the NYC contingent has dropped off, and that is actually how everyone else has felt all along. But I think there's more disregard for the Other across certain lines lately, one of which is gender, because fewer of us are personal friends and we're just typing into the interspace. Maybe.

Maybe people are also self-balkanizing a little by staying just in threads in which they know they're going to have something to say?

Maybe this is bookmarking's fault? I don't know. Meta discussions are usually the sort of thing I back away from. Including right now. You guys are clearing things up for me though, in general, and I don't have the same nagging suspicion that I'm seeing/smelling something that's not there.

Listen Like Thieves was my personal #1 fave INXS album.

Deffo am hearing in my personal life that a lot of women I know have been trying to rescue guys who just aren't that into taking responsibility for their shit and end up freeloading, financially or emotionally, and I wish I knew what was fucked with all of us for putting assholes ahead of our own well-being and/or having no survival instinct and/or never getting mad for the right reasons.

Also, periods.

Just because this is the "no boys" thread.

I have so many things to say about your observation Laurel but am crazy busy at work. Yarg!

Listen Like Thieves is fucking awesome.

I had Listen Like Thieves on tape at the same time that I had Achtung Baby, and that's probably all you need to know.

Jenny, I'm super excited to hear your thoughts later! But since I'm just talking to myself here anyway, here's another one:

My dad made a comment while I was in MI that it wouldn't be a bad idea for me to be a little more feminine, which is incredibly silly and wrong-headed and he doesn't even MEAN it, really, because he's proud of me for my independence and practical abilities and in fact HAS NURTURED THEM AND REWARDED ME FOR THEM ALL MY LIFE. But I can't un-hear it.

What he really means, of course, is for me to be less sharp and less opinionated and make dudes more comfortable so they want to be around me more because I make them feel so good about themselves. And of course stopping being those sharp things is exactly what kills me when I start to care about someone, because I pull myself and my needs back in order not to threaten (or even bother) them with my needs. And I'm sure my tendency to hurt myself this way is totally not unconnected to my having watched my parents do it for 40 years!

This upsets me. It's 2011.
WTF.

Yeah but he's a dad, he doesn't think like a 2011 person. And if I told him that it's 2011 and his expectations were out of date, he'd respond, "Making people more comfortable never goes out of date, Laurel."

He of course does not strive to make others comfortable or secure AT ALL, possibly because he doesn't have the first idea how to.

He probably thinks he does, though -- he's just wrong. Anyway this isn't really about him, or possibly even about me. Putting it out there.

That he said it doesn't upset me; that you took it to heart does!

Yeah, I guess huh.

A hand-calligraphied, illuminated, matted, and framed copy of this poem hung on my bedroom wall all my life. I may have...I may have taken it a tiny bit too seriously. At heart it's a horror -- it would require a woman to be everything to everyone and yet no ONE. Not actually a person. I can't...this is really upsetting to me.

Christ almighty.

If you can find a cure for cancer
but don't be a BITCH about it

That poem is one of the worst things I have ever read. Would not be sad if the person who wrote it died horribly.

illuminated?!
that is a horrifying image and a terrible poem

xp emil.y otm

Illuminated with colored inks and gold leaf around the capital letters. Not as in "lit up". Thank goodness for small favors?

KEEP IT COMING. I can almost feel your combined loathing from here, and it's doing me good.

It's super duper messed up to the max to tell all women to act the same way, esp. if that way is "like good girls."

what the fucking fuck with that poem

oh ugh! I think my mom once gave me a birthday card with that poem on it, or some updated one that was a bit less insulting, but still "for girls," mainly because she really liked the Kipling original. I think we had a brief argument about it, and i think we agreed that a) this "for girls" version was mediocre poetry and b) that i really dislike mass-produced holiday cards in general

"what the fucking fuck"
http://noirbettie.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/7c96e6f1db054ef381b8ce9eebcdeadb.jpg

also, hi everyone, i am on my period atm

thank god my parents (or my mom, at least) were more the "Free to Be You and Me" types

<3 Amelia Lolhart

I should point out, in case you don't know me, that my dad also put paintbrushes and power sanders and a full set of socket wrenches in our hands when we were like 10 years old, and he built me a dune buggy as a first car, and bursted his buttons with pride the first time I biked 100 miles in a day, and stuff. My personal drama is more about being good at all THAT stuff AND everything else, too. In fact, at everything. Just in case the world is having an off day and needs you to save it.

If you don't, it will be your fault.

RIP if only she had tried harder to be perfect.

RIP if only she had tried harder to be perfect.

shit, yeah ... :(

ofmg that poem

Laurel you must print a copy and that poem and ritually burn it while chanting "I don't owe it to anybody to be nice or attractive" or something similarly appropriate.

Styled by 13 year old me, cherished and lovingly photographed by 36 year old me

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6195/6071235301_9004b3463b.jpg

those gold sleeve things! Was there a particular barbie outfit that those came with? Thinking about them decades after the fact, they are really a pretty odd garment.

I see someone's been at the hemming lace.

yes! they came with a barbie i had that was all dressed in gold and i am pretty sure she is the one who became this barbie. the top is an orange lace ribbon i found in my grandma's sewing box, and her pants were, apparently, stockings in a previous life? i don't really remember life before this barbie very well, tbh.

she didn't wear shoes. i never made a ken for her or even any friends, but she has sat on my dresser in all of my rooms/apartments over the years. i found her in my junk drawer and regret keeping her in there for so long.

Hem lace or tape whatever that shit is called, I just made that up. Love her!

P sure the gold things were meant to be...gloves, but Barbie hands looked stupid in gloves?? Or else they were just opera "mitts", I dunno. I feel like a number of ballet recital costumes from that era may have had something similar in which the point over the hand was held down by a loop of elastic around the middle finger?

also, i just wanna say, that i wish i knew more of you ilx ladies irl

likewise

i think barbie didn't look good in gloves because she didn't have any FINGERS

Or toes! Or ribs! Or anything so troublesome as genitalia!

I would also love to know more of the ladies irl. For someone addicted to a message board I am preeeety hopeless at interaction on message boards.

Laurel, lest you think you are a doormat, I have not forgotten your 'There is no Laurel buffet' comment on the breakup thread. I did stay friends with my ex, but that comment *really strongly* influenced how I did it.

i have a song that is somewhat relevant to the discussion and also makes me lol a little:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vajWi4a6ehk

Deffo am hearing in my personal life that a lot of women I know have been trying to rescue guys who just aren't that into taking responsibility for their shit and end up freeloading, financially or emotionally, and I wish I knew what was fucked with all of us for putting assholes ahead of our own well-being and/or having no survival instinct and/or never getting mad for the right reasons.

It's like, this is the dominant model for relationships in our all pervasive media. Movies, TV shows, commercials for cleaning products - the dynamic is always an emotionally stunted, idiot manchild haplessly flailing around life and relationships while the patient (and disproportionately attractive) woman in his life serves as an emotional, financial, and domestic prop. Legit question - what was the last movie or TV show that depicted a hetero couple who are at least attempting some kind of equality in their relationship and where the woman was not merely there for succor or service, or even worse, was entirely defined by her relationships with the men around her? I can't think of anything (but it is early and before coffee).

So but it's unfair to say that we're so dumb as to ape whatever we see in the media, but then where else do we look for healthy male/female hetero relationship models? Our parents? Probably not - they are still operating largely under the gross gender dynamics of the 60s and 70s, or they are divorced. It feels like as women in relationships with men, we've got to make our own way if we want to avoid these pitfalls and god damn is that hard. Staying out of that pattern takes work! Like, constant work! And it's tiring!

And for someone not in a committed relationship with a loving partner who is on board with striving towards actual equality, it's nothing to internalize nonstop messages about how failure to provide emotional support and domestic service and basically be the woman in that horrible, horrible poem makes us unlovable harpies who will die alone and afraid and nobody wants that.

In other ladyrant news, I need a god damn suit by Friday morning and Macy's has two (TWO) plus size suits - one is made out of plastic (or the worse all polyester suit fabric ever and I am included the 70s in all its doubleknit glory) and one is a 78-year-old mother of the remarrying bride/lady's church auxilliary suit. Nordstrom has TWO plus size suits - one that is the same plastic one at Macy's except gray and one that is some hideous fucking are-you-kidding-me-who-really-wears-this-shit soft suiting nonsense with an abstract brush stroke pattern jacket. WHAT THE FUCK. I guess major retailers don't believe fat women get job interviews? We're too busy sitting home eating ho hos and watching Biggest Loser reruns and crying into our fat?

I am double frustrated because I tried to address my suitlessness about a year ago when I had no pressing need by buying a nice all-season weight wool blazer from Pendleton (which matches an all-season weight wool pencil skirt (well, two in black, one in gray (when you find a piece of professional clothing that fits, you've got to stock up on that shit))) but it was boxy and ill fitting and I took it to a tailor who managed to make it fit even worse and then I got disheartened and gave up.

kinda makes you wonder why we have to wear suits.

those shopping experiences sound traumatizing and like they are making the unnatural and generally unpleasant process of interviewing for a job like quadruple worse

I don't know where people shop in Chicago, but that is horrendous and shameful. Wish I had better advice to offer for other shopping options! Let me think it over a second.

What if you stayed with the Pendleton skirt and just looked for a black or windowpane (or other subtly patterned) jacket? Lots of places sell jackets as separates that might not sell suits.

Against my better judgment, bc I did not want to give them any of my dollars, I bought a pretty blue blouse at Nordstrom. Worse case scenario, I'll wear the skirt, blouse, pumps and hope the fact that it's going to be in the 90s makes this seem acceptable. Also going to Stupid Terrible Lane Bryant after work bc sometimes they have passable career wear.