i'm reading chapter one of shadow of the torturer starting now
― the late great, Thursday, 17 May 2012 06:00 (seven years ago) Permalink
i could get behind this, if i can find it for kindle
― pet tommy & the barkhaters (darraghmac), Thursday, 17 May 2012 08:20 (seven years ago) Permalink
i'm not ready to read them yet. this year though. definitely.
― scott seward, Thursday, 17 May 2012 12:49 (seven years ago) Permalink
i'd do them over the summer, but i'm not sure i'll get past the first one
― remy bean, Thursday, 17 May 2012 13:01 (seven years ago) Permalink
i mean the gimmick with them is that they are just a meandering, unreliable narrator a la casanova, right?
― remy bean, Thursday, 17 May 2012 13:04 (seven years ago) Permalink
I can't find these, actually. I picked up a short story collection.
― poxen, Thursday, 17 May 2012 13:12 (seven years ago) Permalink
remy - nope!
― the late great, Thursday, 17 May 2012 15:22 (seven years ago) Permalink
read the first one, kinda stalled on the 2nd one now and taking a break to read a robert b parker novel.i will be happy to discuss this with you cuz it is... intersting. i think i like it. but somehow i go stalled on the 2nd cuz i felt it was becoming too generic? idk.
― one dis leads to another (ian), Thursday, 17 May 2012 15:26 (seven years ago) Permalink
I'm in for summer, either way
― remy bean, Thursday, 17 May 2012 15:27 (seven years ago) Permalink
transient random-noise bursts. . . was in heavy rotation when i first read this and is now forever associated with it in my mind
― mookieproof, Thursday, 17 May 2012 23:42 (seven years ago) Permalink
awesome books, I can't commit to a re-read but I'm looking forward to this thread
― los blue jeans, Friday, 18 May 2012 00:01 (seven years ago) Permalink
i was going to read 'island of doctor death' and then go to this but island of dr death is triggering both the literary-prose and genre-fiction versions of my 'i just can't be bothered' button, and as such has been parked next to the toilet for something like a week
― thomp, Friday, 18 May 2012 09:57 (seven years ago) Permalink
i just noticed this is on the noise board, i forget the noise board exists
http://static.gamebattles.com/gb/arenas/teams/11/297/695/logo204125248421311954103.png
http://content.internetvideoarchive.com/content/photos/371/015590_12.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_8P4B1WPzN1Q/SAxCbtY4szI/AAAAAAAAAFg/aIZMQhNUXWY/S660/A20POW-MIA20NEVER20FORGET_neverforget3.jpg
― the late great, Friday, 18 May 2012 17:27 (seven years ago) Permalink
pardon my cornell notes
"a thousand ages in they sight / are like an evening gone / short as the watch that ends the night / before the rising-sun" <- is this about god? is it about severian and his photographic memory, ruminating on mortality even though his life seems like a thousand ages to him? is it about the experience of reading this book? is it about the resurrection of the righteous? is it about the long decline of man before the destruction of earth?
it is a paraphrase of psalm 90, which in the king james version goes (SPOILER ALERT RE: URTH OF THE NEW SUN)
" For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night. Thou carriest them away as with a flood; they are as a sleep: in the morning they are like grass which groweth up."
"resurrection and death" <- why inverted? especially when the first chapter skips the resurrection entirely and begins in the "and" section. is it normal to go swimming on foggy nights? damn, these kids must have had some crazy goosebumps.
why does severian imagine cutting
― the late great, Friday, 18 May 2012 17:34 (seven years ago) Permalink
haha actually SPOILER ART RE: corridors of time!!!
― the late great, Friday, 18 May 2012 17:35 (seven years ago) Permalink
er SPOILER ALERT
whoops that got "cut off" if you will
why does severian imagine cutting off vodalus' head? does he secretly hate vodalus? is he afraid of one day having to betray vodalus?
― the late great, Friday, 18 May 2012 17:36 (seven years ago) Permalink
http://butdoesitfloat.com/This-was-the-first-time-that-he-had-ever-looked-into-the-labyrinth-of
^^ this is what i imagine nessus looking like
― the late great, Saturday, 19 May 2012 21:45 (seven years ago) Permalink
wow awesome thread! i am almost done with the last book, so very timely for me. these books are amazing.
― bene_gesserit, Saturday, 19 May 2012 23:50 (seven years ago) Permalink
I am gonna reread along with this thread.
― mick signals, Sunday, 20 May 2012 00:54 (seven years ago) Permalink
actually i guess the resurrection might refer to the grave robbery
― the late great, Sunday, 20 May 2012 00:58 (seven years ago) Permalink
book one just arrived to my kindle.
― pet tommy & the barkhaters (darraghmac), Sunday, 20 May 2012 01:45 (seven years ago) Permalink
or his exile is the resurrection? but that doesn't make sense, resurrection's not like exile.
― the late great, Sunday, 20 May 2012 04:55 (seven years ago) Permalink
xpost with the scifi fantasy thread - here's wayne barlowe's illustration of an alzabo. i pictured them looking far more canine for some reason, but i love this illustration.http://lcart1.narod.ru/image/fantasy/wayne_barlowe/gtf/Wayne_Barlowe_Alzabo.jpgi have a lot i want to talk about but you are all just getting started and i don't want to spoil anything! so i'll wait til you're done to join the discussion.
― bene_gesserit, Sunday, 20 May 2012 22:49 (seven years ago) Permalink
lol i have read this twice and remember remarkably little of it
― mookieproof, Sunday, 20 May 2012 22:53 (seven years ago) Permalink
That thing looks like a fanged rhino crossed with Dumb Donald.
― Ian Hunter Is Learning the Game (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 21 May 2012 00:01 (seven years ago) Permalink
I always pictured a large hyena. Are those its eyes in its jowls?
― mick signals, Monday, 21 May 2012 02:29 (seven years ago) Permalink
http://www.paintingsilove.com/uploads/18/18616/the-alzabo.jpg
― mick signals, Monday, 21 May 2012 02:37 (seven years ago) Permalink
― mookieproof, Thursday, May 17, 2012 7:42 PM (4 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
might do this and this
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Monday, 21 May 2012 15:06 (seven years ago) Permalink
picked this up again as i wanted to take a break from the country music bio i was reading. and
SPOILER
the part where they 34t th34cla and he somehow gets her memories is the kind of stuff i like about this series.
― one dis leads to another (ian), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 00:16 (seven years ago) Permalink
finished chapters 2 and 3, not sure what to say about them quite yet ... thinking
― the late great, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 15:52 (seven years ago) Permalink
findin this v hard to get into
― pet tommy & the barkhaters (darraghmac), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 16:15 (seven years ago) Permalink
why?
― the late great, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 17:14 (seven years ago) Permalink
keep fallin asleep after every paragraph, tbh. it's dense.
― pet tommy & the barkhaters (darraghmac), Thursday, 24 May 2012 00:55 (seven years ago) Permalink
it is dense. i suggest reading aloud in a foppish voice.
― the late great, Thursday, 24 May 2012 03:49 (seven years ago) Permalink
^^^ lol.
i find it a bit of a hard read too, because the action moves a lot slower than a lot of what i have been reading lately, and i also fall asleep reading it. but.. i am keeping on. it's a strangely episodic book and i think some of the episodes are more engaging than others tbh.
― one dis leads to another (ian), Thursday, 24 May 2012 15:29 (seven years ago) Permalink
If you can find the audio version, read by Roy Avers for the National Library Service for the Blind, it's a nice version.
Spent the last 5 minutes looking for an old photo I remember, of Roy Avers in his big glasses, but can't find it.
― mick signals, Thursday, 24 May 2012 16:50 (seven years ago) Permalink
read that as Roy Ayers and got excited.
― scott seward, Thursday, 24 May 2012 23:57 (seven years ago) Permalink
you should read this book and get excited
― the late great, Thursday, 24 May 2012 23:58 (seven years ago) Permalink
i'm gonna. but not now. i have all three in hardcover.
― scott seward, Friday, 25 May 2012 00:18 (seven years ago) Permalink
i am on chapter 3 now
― remy bean, Friday, 25 May 2012 01:01 (seven years ago) Permalink
Everybody Loves the New Sunshine
― mick signals, Friday, 25 May 2012 01:22 (seven years ago) Permalink
lolllllll
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Friday, 25 May 2012 01:39 (seven years ago) Permalink
the one thing I completely remember skipping when I read this a long time ago was that lengthy play at the end
ah you missed the whole point of the series then
― the late great, Friday, 25 May 2012 06:03 (seven years ago) Permalink
i'm glad i'm learning more about jonas.it seemed like between the end of book 1 and the beginning of book 2 he became severian's best buddy without much explanation. i guess there is a lot that goes unexplained in these books tho.
― one dis leads to another (ian), Friday, 25 May 2012 15:32 (seven years ago) Permalink
there is a gap of a few weeks or even a couple months between shadow and claw i think
― the late great, Friday, 25 May 2012 15:39 (seven years ago) Permalink
i do think severian does explain why he likes jonas so much
― the late great, Friday, 25 May 2012 15:41 (seven years ago) Permalink
guys i am reading gene wolfe's wiki and:
After returning to the United States he earned a degree from the University of Houston and became an industrial engineer. He edited the journal Plant Engineering for many years before retiring to write full-time, but his most famous professional engineering achievement is a contribution to the machine used to make Pringles potato chips.[5]
HOLY SHIT!!
― bene_gesserit, Monday, 28 May 2012 04:28 (seven years ago) Permalink
haha yeah these books are so dense!
― the late great, Saturday, 1 September 2018 16:12 (nine months ago) Permalink
I truly can’t remember if I read Urth of the New Sun after finishing my first traversal of the four. I definitely didn’t read it after my more recent traversal. I might never have read it.
― cheese is the teacher, ham is the preacher (Jon not Jon), Sunday, 2 September 2018 19:03 (nine months ago) Permalink
it’s very good
― the late great, Sunday, 2 September 2018 19:04 (nine months ago) Permalink
plot-wise it tells the story of the conciliator, resolves the time loop thing, takes us into the mothership, finishes the baldanders / talos / abaia story by showing what happens when the new sun arrives (spoiler alert - wolfe veers toward hard sci fi here and it’s not pretty)
solid payoff imo
― the late great, Sunday, 2 September 2018 19:09 (nine months ago) Permalink
it’s a bit like when you finish an epic d&d campaign and become a living god and then the gm lets you play a few adventures in super high fantasy god mode just for the hell of it
well that and it spelled out a lot of plot points from the first four for me (i am a dummy)
but i don’t mean to imply the tone shifts radically - he’s still exploring the same themes and questions as before, with the same voice and pacing. if anything it’s even more elegaic than the first four, even though it packs in a lot more earth shaking action
― the late great, Sunday, 2 September 2018 19:15 (nine months ago) Permalink
hey I just found super cheap old hardbacks of the last two books and Urth in a thrift store! time to get reading.
― sleeve, Sunday, 2 September 2018 20:24 (nine months ago) Permalink
Has urth o’ th’ NS gotten kind of swept under the carpet since it came out? Is it included in the reprint schemes that have happened since then? I feel like it doesn’t get mentioned much
― cheese is the teacher, ham is the preacher (Jon not Jon), Sunday, 2 September 2018 20:53 (nine months ago) Permalink
for whatever reason it has its own volume, but it’s still in print and i think there’s an ebook bundle w allfive
― the late great, Sunday, 2 September 2018 20:59 (nine months ago) Permalink
i mean i get as an atheist one might find this stuff to be corny bullshit or whatever but lighten up, it's sci fi literature not a manual for living
― the late great, Sunday, August 12, 2018 8:12 AM (two months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Haha fair enough. Looks like the essay has disappeared from the internet so I can't reread it and get angry all over again.
Didn't realise that there are many various fallen civilizations on urth beside the ascians and the autarchy. I thought the two were portrayed as a binary that perhaps unconsciously (?) reflected the cold war division of the world at the time the books were written.
Currently reading Viriconium and enjoying it a lot. Probably not as good as BotNS but working in the same (future fantasy) genre and has some of the same stylistic flair.
― Mercer Finn, Tuesday, 23 October 2018 21:23 (seven months ago) Permalink
from a friend, I just got to this part of the 3rd book:
In Wolfe's Solar Cycle, Typhon the two-headed Imperial person is a direct reference to, possibly an intentional gank, of the two-headed president in Douglas Adams' Hithchiker's Guide.
In fact, there are many plot and character aspects of the Solar Cycle that have direct precursors in Adams' work. One wonders if Wolfe expected to be called on it!
― sleeve, Monday, 3 December 2018 02:35 (six months ago) Permalink
there's a podcast called Alzabo Soup who are doing a close reading of the book of the new sun and i've been listening to it while doing my third read-through and i'm enjoying it, even if a lot of what the dudes suggest is fairly obvious or commonly understood.
― ian, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 18:33 (four months ago) Permalink
I'm almost done with the fourth one! I can tell I'm gonna need to read them again in a few years.
― sleeve, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 18:39 (four months ago) Permalink
i'm midway thru the third i think. there's so much that opens up on re-reads. it's unlike anything else in that way, ime.
― ian, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 18:50 (four months ago) Permalink
https://alzabosoup.libsyn.com/
fyi. they're just getting into citadel of the autarch.
― ian, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 18:55 (four months ago) Permalink
i'll finish my re-read before they finish their spoiler-lite close reading.
did u guys know patton oswalt is a fan?https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/12/29/what-science-fiction-movie-or-novel-is-most-prescient-today/book-of-the-new-sun-by-gene-wolf
― ian, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 19:02 (four months ago) Permalink
there's so much that opens up on re-reads. it's unlike anything else in that way, ime.
― ian
agree! one of a small # of books that are fairly made for re-reading.
― the late great, Thursday, 24 January 2019 06:51 (four months ago) Permalink
Having recently finished my third reading of the book of the new sun, I started listening to the Alzabo Soup podcast mentioned upthread and am enjoying it a lot. There are definitely many things that are easy to miss even after multiple reads that these guys are pointing out. I liked the part about how Severian is probably hiding the coin he got from Vodalus not so much because he treasures it so much but because it links him to his murder of the person who was trying to stop Vodalus in the first chapter and he doesn't want to get found out.
On the other hand it kind of annoyed me that they keep saying that Severian is obviously lying about his perfect memory because he mentions forgetting about the coin in his pocket or other similar examples, when it seems pretty obvious that when Severian talks about perfect memory he's talking about having perfect recall, not about actually never forgetting anything.
― silverfish, Friday, 15 February 2019 18:09 (four months ago) Permalink
I've been listening to Alzabo Soup as I work one of my day jobs (washing LPs & 45s or taking photos of LPs & 45s for 8 hour stretches) -- i just caught up with them last week. sometimes i think they overreach in looking for significance in things, but it's really nice when they explain where certain names come from, and where certain stories come from.
The thing with Severian's memory is tricky because it depends on how the reader chooses to interpret the book. It seems too simple to think that "Severian's a liar so we can't believe his interpretation of things exactly" -- his issue tends to be more sins of omission (Jolenta's rape, probably other things that make him look bad) he mentions a few times saying he sometimes wonders if he's going/gone insane, and he refers to "all you inside me" or something like that, before what he receives as autarch is revealed. I have no concrete answers because I keep thinking about it too hard and confusing myself. Bu the the idea of the Writer Severian relating not only episodes from his life, but also possibly making reference to things that happened not to him, but did happen to other Autarch's, or to Thecla. We know he has Thecla's memories in there -- are there other scenes in which he's disconnected from the rest of his companions that could potentially be recollections by a different person, recast by Severian as "I" for the writing?
sorry i can't think much better than this right now.
― ian, Saturday, 16 February 2019 04:10 (four months ago) Permalink
Also how many times did he die.And what is the relationship of Inire and the Hierodules. if any ?
― ian, Saturday, 16 February 2019 04:11 (four months ago) Permalink
man I need a glossary for all the different social classes
still not done with the 4th one, been real busy
― sleeve, Saturday, 16 February 2019 04:16 (four months ago) Permalink
inire is a hierodule
― the late great, Saturday, 16 February 2019 04:20 (four months ago) Permalink
i figured he is a non-human of some kind, but is he the same being as the hierodules that Sev meets in the castle or one of a different type? He doesn't seem to have the same relationship to time that the hierodules say they have.
― ian, Saturday, 16 February 2019 04:39 (four months ago) Permalink
same was my assumption. i thought he didn’t experience time backward because he was stuck on earth and not traveling on tzadkiel’s ship? i don’t know, wolfe half explains and half abandons that idea in book 5.
― the late great, Saturday, 16 February 2019 04:44 (four months ago) Permalink
i need to re-read Urth next i guess.
― ian, Saturday, 16 February 2019 04:45 (four months ago) Permalink
i never understood the relationship of abaia and erebus to the hierodules, also the cumaean, what’s up w her
― the late great, Saturday, 16 February 2019 04:55 (four months ago) Permalink
i think the hierodues are working in opposition to erebus and abaia, who are trying to enslave humanity/control urth for their own nefarious ends. no idea what's up with the cumaean. is she litereally snakelike or is that a metaphor
― ian, Saturday, 16 February 2019 15:04 (four months ago) Permalink
rip
― mookieproof, Monday, 15 April 2019 16:23 (two months ago) Permalink
dang, just finished the first book of the new sun ... was unfamiliar with this guy, but loving it so far.
― tylerw, Monday, 15 April 2019 16:28 (two months ago) Permalink
just saw this, RIP
I literally just found a replacement copy of the 4th New Sun book yesterday, I lost my copy when I was almost done. Looking forward to diving back in.
― Emperor Tonetta Ketchup (sleeve), Monday, 15 April 2019 16:33 (two months ago) Permalink
RIP big man
― the late great, Monday, 15 April 2019 17:08 (two months ago) Permalink
Aw fuck off :(
― Roberto Spiralli, Monday, 15 April 2019 17:11 (two months ago) Permalink
is this where i admit i don't care for anything he wrote except "fifth head" and tBotNS?
― the late great, Monday, 15 April 2019 17:11 (two months ago) Permalink
Aw man, I just finished a third reading of New Sun. I was really spending a lot of time thinking about this book the last couple of months.
― silverfish, Monday, 15 April 2019 17:17 (two months ago) Permalink
xp
book of the long sun is totally worth reading. First book is basically just a heist in a weird setting (I enjoyed it, but I guess not everyone would) but then it really opens up starting with book 2.
― silverfish, Monday, 15 April 2019 17:28 (two months ago) Permalink
i started litany of the long sun but couldn't get very far into it
:(
it just felt very "normal sci fi" to me
― the late great, Monday, 15 April 2019 17:31 (two months ago) Permalink
i've only read the four orig sun books but i picked up a used urth of the new sun the other day, should get to it soon. rip. good stuff.
― difficult listening hour, Monday, 15 April 2019 17:33 (two months ago) Permalink
^^ that one's next up for me
― Emperor Tonetta Ketchup (sleeve), Monday, 15 April 2019 17:35 (two months ago) Permalink
might kill a can of pringles today in his honor
― difficult listening hour, Monday, 15 April 2019 17:37 (two months ago) Permalink
two immense Catholic pinnacles felled in one day
― mick signals, Monday, 15 April 2019 22:25 (two months ago) Permalink
it was a bummer. ok, he was 87, but i still wanted to talk about it, and apparently nobody i work with has ever heard of the book of the new sun
i should sometime reread the book of the new sun, i liked it but whenever i read this thread it becomes apparent to me that i have no idea about anything that happens in that book. i thought it was, just, people dueling with leaves and maoists telling stories.
at least i finished it though!
― Jaki Liebowitz (rushomancy), Monday, 15 April 2019 23:34 (two months ago) Permalink
well those things do happen
― the late great, Monday, 15 April 2019 23:37 (two months ago) Permalink
https://www.theringer.com/2019/4/25/18515675/gene-wolfe-science-fiction-author
― mookieproof, Thursday, 25 April 2019 19:33 (one month ago) Permalink
Urth of the New Sun is kinda blowing my mind right now, I have no idea what's gonna happen next (1/3 of the way through)
― Emperor Tonetta Ketchup (sleeve), Thursday, 25 April 2019 22:09 (one month ago) Permalink
did you finish it yet, sleeve?
― the late great, Sunday, 19 May 2019 17:36 (four weeks ago) Permalink
yes! I'm still a bit confused about what exactly happened at the end, I'll probably re-read it in 6 months or so.
some of the parts in "Urth" where all the puzzle pieces of the time travel fit together were really cool, like the Witch's Tower getting damaged and the origin of the Claw (which seems to be entirely self-referential?)
― Emperor Tonetta Ketchup (sleeve), Monday, 20 May 2019 13:54 (four weeks ago) Permalink
yeah the claw is an ouroboros
by the end you mean the *very* last scene? yeah i was always unsure about the significance of that too, except that perhaps it closes the loop (the first novel begins in a graveyard)
― the late great, Monday, 20 May 2019 16:58 (four weeks ago) Permalink
well that scene yeah, with the "gods" that were the 4 survivors on the raft, but also the whole stone town thing (last few chapters? with Apu-Punchau), I think some of it will become clearer when I re-read but iirc the stone town stuff was all in book one and my memory is already hazy on that.
― Emperor Tonetta Ketchup (sleeve), Monday, 20 May 2019 17:08 (four weeks ago) Permalink
The last time I did a re-read a couple of months ago I tried re-reading the stone town chapters in Urth of the New Sun and Book of the New Sun back to back just to get a better idea of what exactly is happening but I'm still not sure I completely get it.
As far as I can tell the real Severian died on the ship and the hierodules come to the stone town to help save a copy of Severian (an aquastor I think?) and another dead copy of Severian is left behind for the ritual with Hildegrin who will be destroyed by coming into contact with the real Severian from the end of Claw of the Conciliator. I'm going by memory here though, it was somewhat clearer when I read it. I'm still unclear on what purpose that ritual served.
― silverfish, Tuesday, 21 May 2019 15:57 (three weeks ago) Permalink
stumbled upon this, i wish i were rich
https://www.foliosociety.com/usa/the-book-of-the-new-sun.html
― diamonddave85 (diamonddave85), Friday, 31 May 2019 13:14 (two weeks ago) Permalink