and who is "the public"?
― sarahell, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 21:57 (five years ago) link
idk does this now deserve a thread or is each of these posts proferred as tbomb or
― old yeller-at-clouds (darraghmac), Wednesday, 28 November 2018 21:57 (five years ago) link
i ... must have missed that part of the constitution
― the late great, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 21:57 (five years ago) link
whether the education was better or worse ... is kind of beside the point
!!!
― the late great, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 21:58 (five years ago) link
u missed the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment?
― Dan I., Wednesday, 28 November 2018 21:58 (five years ago) link
i blame the schools
― old yeller-at-clouds (darraghmac), Wednesday, 28 November 2018 21:59 (five years ago) link
afaik charter schools cannot deny students on the basis of race am i wrong?
― Mordy, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 21:59 (five years ago) link
well its an anagram of racehate so
― old yeller-at-clouds (darraghmac), Wednesday, 28 November 2018 22:00 (five years ago) link
yeah man, it is beside the point, the same exact way that it's beside the point that the education is absolutely stellar at the local 95% white "classical academy"
― Dan I., Wednesday, 28 November 2018 22:00 (five years ago) link
i don't think it's the same exact way
― sarahell, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 22:04 (five years ago) link
It's literally the same way that it doesn't matter whether "separate but equal" schools were actually equal!
― Dan I., Wednesday, 28 November 2018 22:06 (five years ago) link
kinda feel like issues about privilege and equity that are mostly agreed upon in other contexts are being ignored here
― sarahell, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 22:07 (five years ago) link
chin stroke emoji
― Dan I., Wednesday, 28 November 2018 22:08 (five years ago) link
my understanding is that unlike a segregated school, nobody is being forced to go to a charter
― the late great, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 22:09 (five years ago) link
and after integration, one of the things that happened was "tracking" -- which regularly ended up segregating the students of color into remedial classes
― sarahell, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 22:10 (five years ago) link
tracking existed before school integration, but it made for a perfect vehicle for racism
― sarahell, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 22:11 (five years ago) link
i think if there are charter schools that racially discriminate then the state should intervene. if they are "encouraging" de facto segregation by appealing more to some groups than others and thereby creating class compositions that are weighted towards one ethnic group or another, i don't see that as a problem.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 22:11 (five years ago) link
well, I'm still at work, so with a heavy heart I bid y'all and the myriad challops you're dropping in the truth bombs thread adieu
― Dan I., Wednesday, 28 November 2018 22:14 (five years ago) link
afaik charter schools cannot deny students on the basis of race am i wrong?― Mordy, Wednesday, November 28, 2018 4:59 PM (ten minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Mordy, Wednesday, November 28, 2018 4:59 PM (ten minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
are you asking this in good faith? you and i have talked about this quite a bit on other threads. it's sort of grand secondary gain of the entire urban charter school movement, and also the, silicon valley, uh, "school reform" edvestors.
― remy bean, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 22:15 (five years ago) link
it's a bit uneven, but the first part is really great -- he has a great anecdote about the Direct Action Network being given a car as a donation and how anarchist/radical org structures are challenged by things like that
― sarahell, Wednesday, November 28, 2018 9:47 PM (twenty-four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
ah yeah i def read this specific excerpt somewhere
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 22:15 (five years ago) link
Since their inception, a defining characteristic of charter schools has been their tendency to serve highly racially concentrated student bodies. For example, national attendance data gathered during the 2014-2015 school year showed that 54 percent of charters in the United States were nonwhite segregated and 12 percent were predominantly white.69
this is from the stancil piece- i'm not sure that it's obvious what someone should read out of this information tbph.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 22:16 (five years ago) link
remy i remember discussing charter schools here on ilx before but if you think we reached some kind of consensus between us about the racial discrimination policies of charter schools i def don't remember that. maybe u can link me to the other discussion tho i'm happy to reread if i'm forgetting something.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 22:17 (five years ago) link
i'm interested in his understanding of the data bc he seems to be arguing that charter schools mostly exist for white parents to take their white kids out of public schools and send them to charter schools instead and afaiui that is not substantiated by the demographic information tho maybe tlg can speak better to this
I don't know if charter schools are the same as free schools in the UK, sorry England, but that's pretty much what free schools are for here - I suppose more accurately they're for white middle class parents to take their kids out of state schools where there are too many kids from poor or ethnic minority backgrounds, often the same thing in London.
― Monica Kindle (Tom D.), Wednesday, 28 November 2018 22:19 (five years ago) link
look at the quote i just posted tho. does that support a narrative that charter schools exist for white parents to put their kids in?
― Mordy, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 22:19 (five years ago) link
... without the expense of having their children go to private schools. (xp)
― Monica Kindle (Tom D.), Wednesday, 28 November 2018 22:20 (five years ago) link
Tom D - yep, it's very similar
― sarahell, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 22:21 (five years ago) link
fair enough, mordy. i searched for the thead but i can't find it. i know it was about the 2016 ballot measure question in massachusetts. for those interested:
this is nearly ten years old, and still holds water: https://www.civilrightsproject.ucla.edu/research/k-12-education/integration-and-diversity/choice-without-equity-2009-reportthis is from the brookings institution (of all places!) and summarizes more recent observations https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2017/12/11/how-charter-schools-are-prolonging-segregation/and this is the union line: http://neatoday.org/2018/05/04/racial-segregation-in-charter-schools/
― remy bean, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 22:24 (five years ago) link
i think of myself as a pragmatic anarchist (though sometimes the pragmatist wins out -- ) so it's an issue, of how to set up a system where people have agency to resist oppressive structures without allowing rich and powerful douchebags to take advantage of the system for their douchey ends.
― sarahell, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 22:24 (five years ago) link
The fact that, over here, the supporters of the free school system tend to be hideous right wing ideologues is a bit of a clue.
― Monica Kindle (Tom D.), Wednesday, 28 November 2018 22:24 (five years ago) link
*sigh* yeah ... we have a similar issue w/r/t live/work housing.
― sarahell, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 22:25 (five years ago) link
just to be clear -- i think the quote above suggests that charter schools mostly exist to serve nonwhite communities. compared to the 12 percent of predominately white charter schools "30 percent of traditional schools were predominantly white"
― Mordy, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 22:26 (five years ago) link
remy from that neatoday article: "While only 4 percent of traditional public schools have student bodies that are 99 percent minority (2014-15 school year data), 17 percent of charter schools are 99 percent minority. Furthermore, of the 6,747 charter schools in the country, more than 1,000 had minority enrollment of at least 99 percent." bc we're talking about charter schools we're talking about segregation of nonwhite student populations by choice. this is hardly the same thing as white segregation to "protect" white kids from minorities.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 22:35 (five years ago) link
Should we do the same thing with waiting rooms and water fountains if people are opting in?
― remy bean, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 22:56 (five years ago) link
im kind of ok about segregation on group basis from non-majority populations (i mean i personally went to a state catholic school in scotland, where the introduction of such schools in the early 20th century was vehemently opposed by political protestantism with the slogan "No Rome on the rates!") but the other forms of "social selectivity" which in some cases comes along with the free or charter school model as it exists in Sweden, England and the U.S. is pretty sus' imo
― ( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 28 November 2018 23:00 (five years ago) link
For real –– I don't mean to be zingy. But, I mean,. urban public schools often suck and are unfair and ESPECIALLY terrible at teaching non-white students. And they're actually trying to fix things. Even if it's bureaucratically difficult. Unhappy, nad aware of these issues, parents of non-white students respond to enticements to bring their students to charters that frequently practice extreme discipline practices, skirt teaching regulations, exploit their labor force and chronically underserve students needing special education. Often these schools are white-owned, for-profit entities. At best this is a profiteering dodge of the real issue; at worst it's resegregation.
― remy bean, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 23:02 (five years ago) link
i'm sure there are waiting rooms and water fountains with extremely segregated clienteles and i don't believe we should forcibly desegregate them
― Mordy, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 23:05 (five years ago) link
"this water fountain in a 99% black community is used 99% by black water drinkers and is reifying segregation we must bus in white water drinkers and bus out black water drinkers to other water fountains to achieve equality" i mean c'mon
You realize this an argument in favor of Jim Crow laws, right?
― remy bean, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 23:07 (five years ago) link
no it really isn't related at all
― Mordy, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 23:11 (five years ago) link
Wish this was all in a different thread at this point
― (•̪●) (carne asada), Wednesday, 28 November 2018 23:15 (five years ago) link
truth bungs
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 23:49 (five years ago) link
Charter schools in the United States
made yall a thread
― 21st savagery fox (m bison), Thursday, 29 November 2018 01:41 (five years ago) link
very US Politics-centric but:
---Never believe a sentence that contains the words "Schumer" and "insist."
― grawlix (unperson), Friday, December 7, 2018 12:22 PM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Friday, 7 December 2018 20:11 (five years ago) link
I don't discuss my personal life or problems online
tbf half of ilm is people doing exactly this, they're just couching it in language that makes it look like they're commenting on popular music
― mh, Thursday, March 14, 2019 3:25 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― macropuente (map), Friday, 15 March 2019 01:14 (five years ago) link
most bands don't have one good song
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown)
― sleeve, Friday, 5 July 2019 15:28 (four years ago) link
"sapiosexual" as a concept is such a gigantic crock of shit and I will continue to hold this opinion until someone shows me a sapiosexual group full of dudes going "you know, Stephen Hawking could get it"
― brigadier pudding (DJP), Friday, 20 September 2019 19:02 (nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
― Fox Pithole Britain (Noodle Vague), Friday, 20 September 2019 18:12 (four years ago) link
what is the opposite of sapiosexual? i am only sexually attracted to absolute fucking dumbasses— a a dril (@demarionunn) September 20, 2019
― fgti (flamboyant goon tie included), Friday, 20 September 2019 19:39 (four years ago) link
etymologically "sapio" is more "wisdom" than "intelligence" so if anything you should be into like Tibetan lamas or something
― Fox Pithole Britain (Noodle Vague), Friday, 20 September 2019 19:46 (four years ago) link
haha that's a coincidence, i was just talking about alternative sexualities with one of my co-workers at lunch and she brought up "sapiosexual" and i immediately without thinking said "that's not a sexual orientation, that's something assholes say to make themselves sound clever"
i try not to be rude in general but i guess i was already on my high horse when the topic came up
― sock fingering, baby (rushomancy), Saturday, 21 September 2019 01:53 (four years ago) link
It would be, at most, a very specific fetish, right? If you couldn't get off if someone *wasn't* actively being smart at you?
― vcrash, Saturday, 21 September 2019 02:07 (four years ago) link