More Dave Sim Batshittery.

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The woman who interviewed him for the Onion last year responds to accusations made in his latest book, "Collected Letters 2004."

Austin Still (Austin, Still), Sunday, 28 August 2005 13:06 (fourteen years ago) link

There's some great stuff if you follow her links to pre-interview discussions with Sim:

I offered to fax [Sim] copies of the interviews I've done with Alan Moore and Scott McCloud, so he could see what kind of stuff we do. I mentioned that we look for people who have non-mainstream opinions. He said that Scott McCloud and Alan Moore ARE mainstream. I said that they've been embraced by the mainstream, but that they don't necessarily express themselves in mainstream-friendly ways; for instance, Alan Moore claims that he worships a sock puppet. Dave said something about that depending on whether it's a feminist issue. I asked how worshipping a sock puppet was a feminist issue. He said "Same pus, different zit." I said "I'm not getting you." He said "Yeah. I know."

Laura H. (laurah), Sunday, 28 August 2005 13:50 (fourteen years ago) link

[Sim] said that he'd once done an interview with a major news outlet, on the condition that they publish his address, with the notation that anyone interested in reading a full copy of "Tangent," his 20-page essay debunking the "feminist/homosexualist axis," could write to him, and he'd send them a full copy. He said he got exactly one query, and it was from a teenage girl, writing on Spice Girls stationary.

Laura H. (laurah), Sunday, 28 August 2005 13:53 (fourteen years ago) link

Ok, Laura's last post is seriously the greatest thing in the history of humanity/aardvakdom.

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Sunday, 28 August 2005 14:00 (fourteen years ago) link

Is Dave Sim the most tragi-comic artist of our times? I alternate wildly between laughing my arse off at his ridicolous asshatery and just feeling shocked and horrified that the guy who wrote fucking "Church & State" is just rotting away somewhere in his own little psychotic dreamworld.

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Sunday, 28 August 2005 14:12 (fourteen years ago) link


he just fuckin lost it somewhere along the line.

Ian John50n (orion), Sunday, 28 August 2005 14:20 (fourteen years ago) link

(For full context: Tangent.)

It's hard to know whether to feel more horror or pity. It sucks, because Cerebus was good, and he had to go and ruin it for a lot of people by being an unhinged jerkoff.

Caveat lector!

Laura H. (laurah), Sunday, 28 August 2005 14:29 (fourteen years ago) link

Hannibal Lector more like.

Vic Fluro, Sunday, 28 August 2005 17:23 (fourteen years ago) link

"Homosexualist" is the greatest neologism efer. When I grow up, I want to be a homosexualist.

Leeeeeeee (Leee), Sunday, 28 August 2005 17:34 (fourteen years ago) link

Jesus, just when I was in danger of forgetting what a self-obsessed loon he is.

Dave, for the last time: the feminist conspiracy isn't the reason that most people haven't heard of Cerebus. The rreason most people haven't heard of Cerebus is because it's a 6000 page, black and white, often almost unbearably oblique comic about an Aardvark, for fuck's sake.

chap who would dare to thwart the revolution (chap), Sunday, 28 August 2005 18:45 (fourteen years ago) link

Good god, here's some pretty hardcore loonery:

""The dialogue between YHWH and God continues. I think YHWH's contribution back in the early 60s was Peter, Paul and Mary. I mean, it is a *way* of looking at Christianity, seeing Peter, Paul and Mary as the three cornerstones after Jesus. Of course, being YHWH her point was; if you have Peter, Paul and Mary, what do you need Jesus for? I think this amused God a great deal - to the extent that he countered with John, Paul, George and Ringo. Paul, of course, was actually James: James Paul McCartney. So John and James were leaders of the band, like the sons of Zebedee, John and James, the brothers Boanerges, the sons of thunder. John and James, of course were the ones who sought to sit on the right and left hands of Jesus in the next world (egged on by their mother, according to one Gospel account). So it was a good joke that on the cusp of becoming world famous John and James ditched Peter, Pete Best, the drummer since this is basically what the biblical John and James had attempted to do with Peter the apostle. The George part, I think, was God's way of saying that leap-frogging Peter - that is the Vatican - lands you in England and Henry VIII's decision to make himself not only king, but head of the church as well. There have been three King Georges [sic - he doesn't know all that much about British history, especially given that the British monarch is also Canadian head of state...], the last one being George III, the George whose exorbitant taxation created the impetus behind the founding of the United States. Now, having ditched Peter, that meant you had three kings or a Ring of Stars (Ringo Starr) only in the same cursory way that Peter, Paul and Mary make a ring. Of course, because this was God's idea and not YHWH's the Beatles were exponentially more sucessful and influential than were Peter, Paul and Mary the "three kings" and George III part resonated more successfully with them landing in the United States than Peter, Paul and Mary could ever have hoped to and, of course, YHWH, being a perennial sucker for music and dancing has ridden the phenomenon as far as he/she/it could. It actually ended with Charles Manson - God's point being that, separated from God, these "three English kings" are just sleazy long-haired drifters, using their music and charisma to enslave impressionable young girls, as Manson did."

More here:

chap who would dare to thwart the revolution (chap), Sunday, 28 August 2005 19:02 (fourteen years ago) link

Not sure if this is a claim to fame, but two of Dave's letters to me are in the new "Collected Letters" book. Yikes. (I guess Aldo must be in there too, but I forgot his real-life name.)

In person, Dave is quite personable, even -- in my experience, and from what friends have said -- to the ladies. (On condition, of course, that they only talk about comics. But he was very helpful to a female friend, giving advice on her portfolio.)

Chuck_Tatum (Chuck_Tatum), Sunday, 28 August 2005 20:31 (fourteen years ago) link

"In person he is personable."

I'm glad I have an editor in real life.

Chuck_Tatum (Chuck_Tatum), Sunday, 28 August 2005 20:35 (fourteen years ago) link

You know, considering that Sim is both a satirist and a big Wilde fan, d'you suppose maybe he just woke up one day and decided to go Dorian Gray, as it were? His life is his art, and since his art is satire, he's just decided to turn himself into an outrageous living satire?

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Sunday, 28 August 2005 20:38 (fourteen years ago) link

101 Comics people who are/were demonstrably mad GO!

Vic Fluro, Sunday, 28 August 2005 20:46 (fourteen years ago) link

"Homosexualist" is the greatest neologism efer.

He took it from Gore Vidal, who noted that "homosexual" is not a noun.

kit brash (kit brash), Monday, 29 August 2005 00:18 (fourteen years ago) link

I was doing a little research into the whole Sim mess, and I find out that he and Jeff Smith were really tight once. When did they meet? Were they just pals, or were there more professional things going on, i.e. self-publishing?

Leeeeeeee (Leee), Monday, 29 August 2005 04:30 (fourteen years ago) link

The way you italicized that, I didn't think your "i.e." was going to be "self-publishing".

Casuistry (Chris P), Monday, 29 August 2005 04:54 (fourteen years ago) link

The Jeff Smith thing was about self-publishing to start with, but they were actual friends.

They fell out when Jeff's wife took offence to something Dave said (I can't remember offhand, but it was really nothing) and insisted Jeff have it out with him. Jeff didn't, but refused to speak to him. You can imagine how Dave took this, given it was a woman that 'told' Jeff to act this way.

This led to ever-increasing ridiculousness, with Dave insisting if theyed sort it out like men and it would all be forgotten. He even hired a boxing ring at one convention and told Jeff that 3 rounds and it would never be mentioned again (irrespective of the outcome of the fight).

I'm fairly sure I'm in Collected Letters, but I haven't got it yet.

aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Monday, 29 August 2005 05:59 (fourteen years ago) link

I finished the whole thing in three days! if you want to email me yr real name I can look you up.

kit brash (kit brash), Monday, 29 August 2005 06:40 (fourteen years ago) link

It's OK, I was always destined to buy it anyway.

aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Monday, 29 August 2005 07:10 (fourteen years ago) link

There was a preview of Bone in one of the issues of Cerebus. I think it was the wacky page which ends in Fone Bone having a pie-with-a-slice-out-shaped head. Which is the other thing that Sim at his peak did, spread the wealth of being the biggest b&w indie by spotlighting a lot of other talent.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 29 August 2005 08:13 (fourteen years ago) link

yes indeed, I remember that issue. That's in early Mothers & Daughters. Part of Dave Sim's tragedy is the way he was writing really good stuff just before he went barking mad.

DV (dirtyvicar), Monday, 29 August 2005 13:15 (fourteen years ago) link

This is totally my "favorite" part of Tangent:

To me, taking it as a given that reason cannot prevail in any argument with emotion, there must come a point - with women and children - where verbal discipline has to be asserted, and if verbal discipline proves insufficient, that physical discipline be introduced. Women and children have soft, cushy buttocks which are, nonetheless, shot through with reasonably sensitive nerve endings.

I believe that those buttocks are there for a very specific purpose intended by their Creator.

Like much of the screed, it's more entertaining if you try to imagine it being narrated with tremendous gravitas by James Earl Jones.

Laura H. (laurah), Monday, 29 August 2005 14:30 (fourteen years ago) link

Sim's priapic fisticuffs challenge to Smith can be found here.

Laura H. (laurah), Monday, 29 August 2005 14:41 (fourteen years ago) link

i think i actually have a book signed by Sim, somewhere. I think it was a #0 or something. some incidental story that took place between arcs. had a black cover.

ah, my days of comic con attdending.

kingfish 'doublescoop' moose tracks (kingfish 2.0), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 05:39 (fourteen years ago) link

#0 reprinted #51 (between High Society and Church & State), the double issue 112/113 (between C&S and Jaka's Story) and #137 and most of #138 (a post-Jaka comedy interlude that transitioned into a coda - the coda was in the collection.

Off the top of my head, folks.

kit brash (kit brash), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 08:11 (fourteen years ago) link

Let's face it though, he's right.

YHWH (Groke), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 16:11 (fourteen years ago) link

That God sent the Beatles to battle Peter, Paul and Mary for musical dominance? Shiiiit. I just don't feel ready to accept that-- but maybe that's the Void talking.

Ooo! Puppies!

Laura H. (laurah), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 19:37 (fourteen years ago) link

Dave's 2004 letter to me starts on page 131. I'm just glad the phrase "John Lennon died when he let Brian Epstein put his band in matching faggy suits" has finally seen the published light of day, it's too good to slide into obscurity.

Chuck, who are you IRL? Page numbers will do.

aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 20:44 (fourteen years ago) link

I do believe that is a sentence.

n/a (Nick A.), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 20:56 (fourteen years ago) link

"John Lennon died when he let Brian Epstein put his band in matching faggy suits."

I've been trying to drop that into conversation ever since you first mentioned it.

My real name in real life is Pau1 15aac5.

Chuck_Tatum (Chuck_Tatum), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:24 (fourteen years ago) link

when i think about the sim/smith bustup i kind of imagine it taking place between cerebus and fone bone, the former issuing his 1500-word challenge (in tiny, tiny print) in a huge, beautifully drawn splash page and then a little panel way down at the bottom with fone looking exasperated and going "OH JEEZ!!!!!!!!"

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 05:48 (fourteen years ago) link

four months pass...
The Guardian exclusively reveals today that Lenny Henry "loves comics and has been reading the Cerebus books sine 1977. Dave Sim came to my birthday party as a surprise once." Finally, the meeting of the minds.

Chuck_Tatum (Chuck_Tatum), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 12:25 (thirteen years ago) link

My favourite Sim-related story of last year.

aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 12:36 (thirteen years ago) link

“Hmm,” Chris said. “I remember his girlfriend left him in the Eighties and he really took that hard.”

“Yes,” I said, “if you read his comics, you can sort of get that impression.”

Chuck_Tatum (Chuck_Tatum), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 12:53 (thirteen years ago) link

If only Dave and Deni's firsthand accounts both at the time and subsequently supported this theory, that guy would be insightful!

Lots of Sim/Henry references in Collected Letters 2004, incidentally.

kit brash (kit brash), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 14:04 (thirteen years ago) link

my friend MH said: "L.henrys female void = larger than average"

Ward Fowler (Ward Fowler), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 21:10 (thirteen years ago) link

one is beginning to kind of suspect cerebus was originally plotted by his wife

tom west (thomp), Thursday, 12 January 2006 04:02 (thirteen years ago) link

two months pass...

c(''c) (Leee), Sunday, 2 April 2006 18:51 (thirteen years ago) link

Operation Enduring Dave Sim

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Sunday, 2 April 2006 19:41 (thirteen years ago) link


Chuck_Tatum (Chuck_Tatum), Sunday, 2 April 2006 20:54 (thirteen years ago) link


pixel farmer (Rock Hardy), Sunday, 2 April 2006 21:03 (thirteen years ago) link


chap who would dare to be a stone cold thug (chap), Sunday, 2 April 2006 21:29 (thirteen years ago) link

he looks face-lifted.

Dan I. (Dan I.), Sunday, 2 April 2006 22:25 (thirteen years ago) link

I have it on very good authority (some bloke that worked in the comic shop years ago) that he had to have reconstructive surgery on his nose in the eighties because of too much coke.

chap who would dare to be a stone cold thug (chap), Sunday, 2 April 2006 22:28 (thirteen years ago) link

Comic Shop Guy is good authority?

If it's true, that makes 6000 on-schedule pages an even more amazing feat.

pixel farmer (Rock Hardy), Sunday, 2 April 2006 22:58 (thirteen years ago) link

That's weird, I totally meant to write 'very dubious authority'. I suspect it's bullshit.

chap who would dare to be a stone cold thug (chap), Monday, 3 April 2006 00:04 (thirteen years ago) link

two weeks pass...

shredding repis on the gnar gnar rad (chaki), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 01:43 (thirteen years ago) link

I would buy that comic.

Matt M., Wednesday, 3 October 2012 16:23 (seven years ago) link

this is very entertaining:

fit and working again, Wednesday, 3 October 2012 20:10 (seven years ago) link

Dave interviewed Neal? So maybe we can get BATSHIT ODYSSEY to happen.

I know Following Cerebus existed but I've never seen one.

EZ Snappin, Wednesday, 3 October 2012 20:49 (seven years ago) link

A booklength discussion between Dave and Neal.

fit and working again, Wednesday, 3 October 2012 21:01 (seven years ago) link

This is a good description.

fit and working again, Wednesday, 3 October 2012 21:02 (seven years ago) link

Okay, I just got the net up at the new place and downloaded the a/v High Society #1. I'm laughing out loud at Sim's voices for the characters. This ongoing batshittery will entertain me each week for months.

And speaking of batshittery, the way he played Fantagraphics just to be a total dick? Classic Sim.

EZ Snappin, Friday, 12 October 2012 16:11 (seven years ago) link

where is this?

EVERYONE COOKING SCMABLED EGGS,CHEESE WITH TOASTER!! (forksclovetofu), Friday, 12 October 2012 16:18 (seven years ago) link

First issue is free here:

I backed the kickstarter for $15 so I'll get each issue free as they're released.

EZ Snappin, Friday, 12 October 2012 16:21 (seven years ago) link

go to -- the "Fantagraphics Offer" updates from Oct and Sept in the sidebar summarize the stuff from here:

The whole thing will take a while to skim and hours and hours to read thoroughly, and life is short.

EZ OTM, Dave has the instincts of a seasoned internet troll.

WmC, Friday, 12 October 2012 16:27 (seven years ago) link

oh i followed the tcj thing, but the cerebus downloads is gonna be WHOA

EVERYONE COOKING SCMABLED EGGS,CHEESE WITH TOASTER!! (forksclovetofu), Friday, 12 October 2012 17:17 (seven years ago) link

You saw how he announced a book of Cerebus covers, and a special edition High Society Digital through IDW? And got $30,000 or something upfront? Serious douchebaggery when you consider what prompted the Fanta offer.

EZ Snappin, Friday, 12 October 2012 17:28 (seven years ago) link

in the style of the fanta negosh, the "book of covers from IDW" had blown out to three, then four, then probably including the colour strips as well, within a day or so

set the controls for the arse of your mum (sic), Friday, 12 October 2012 22:27 (seven years ago) link

Disingenuousness has a new name!

Matt M., Friday, 12 October 2012 23:05 (seven years ago) link


EZ Snappin, Friday, 12 October 2012 23:50 (seven years ago) link


Matt M., Saturday, 13 October 2012 00:03 (seven years ago) link

one year passes...

For people who hadn't been keeping up, Dave has a new quarterly KS featuring 10 full size repros of pages and ancillary artwork still in his possession. Each quarter features a different phonebook/era, with the idea to keep him going to finish up Alex Raymond and to tidy up the scans of the art enough to get new phonebooks ready to publish. Assuming every quarter hits the same targets as this one, he'll achieve that goal.

Rabona not glue (aldo), Wednesday, 18 June 2014 14:24 (five years ago) link

the batshit part: he expects this to carry on for decades after his death

rage against martin sheen (sic), Wednesday, 18 June 2014 14:49 (five years ago) link

any idea how much dough was he pulling in in the mid-80s? I know he's broke/an ascetic now but back then he seemed to maintain this whole rock-star image, back cover photos of him pulling up to conventions in limos, staying in fancy hotels, bimbos hanging on him... was that all just bullshit or was he really rolling in it?

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 18 June 2014 15:38 (five years ago) link

dude's arc seems like a total tragedy in retrospect

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 18 June 2014 15:39 (five years ago) link


seems like the proper nomenclature for a dave sim thread

Mordy, Wednesday, 18 June 2014 15:43 (five years ago) link

Aside from the pleasures of that kind of lifestyle, think Sim also wanted to show other comics people the riches they could earn from self-publishing (but this was at a time when creators on high-royalty earning corporate comics were also earning small fortunes - I know of one penciller who bought a house from the royalties they earned from just one single, high profile Marvel/DC crossover comic)

sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Wednesday, 18 June 2014 15:48 (five years ago) link

i'm curious. can you say what book it was?

xp what should they be called, Simbos?

Nhex, Wednesday, 18 June 2014 16:51 (five years ago) link


not referring to Deni Loubert tbc

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 18 June 2014 16:56 (five years ago) link


― Look at this joke I've recognised, do you recognise it as well? (forksclovetofu)


the joke should be over once the kid is eaten. (chap), Wednesday, 18 June 2014 17:09 (five years ago) link


Οὖτις, Wednesday, 18 June 2014 17:50 (five years ago) link

forks, it's not for the public prints, but i will tell you in person the next time i visit new york!

was also told - second-hand - that another very well known mainstream comics writer bought a jet out of the royalties they earned - true or not, the point is that there was an awful lot of cash sloshing around comics in the 1980s. i think the irony is is that these days, with the royalty system all but defunct, you really have to own your work - and sell it to TV/movies - to earn similar riches. so dave sim was basically...right?

sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Wednesday, 18 June 2014 17:54 (five years ago) link

oh man

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 18 June 2014 22:46 (five years ago) link

not referring to Deni Loubert tbc

no, you're referring to Dawn Nash ("Zee")

rage against martin sheen (sic), Wednesday, 18 June 2014 23:57 (five years ago) link

Aside from the pleasures of that kind of lifestyle, think Sim also wanted to show other comics people the riches they could earn from self-publishing

Also this was not necessarily a "lifestyle" - conventions weren't a 40-times-ayear proposition in the 80s because the distribution system worked, his expenses at home were probably minimal: he booked car services in other cities, but that would get him from interview to interview to store signing to hotel to convention and be a business expense, and he doesn't drive, so at home got/gets around by walking; when he and Ger went to Hawaii for a week and spent it drawing pages for the book on the balcony of their hotel, that would also likely be written off.

rage against martin sheen (sic), Thursday, 19 June 2014 04:52 (five years ago) link

NFTP from 74 mentions Skidmore by name. Something in my eye.

Rabona not glue (aldo), Thursday, 19 June 2014 08:29 (five years ago) link

Love how ILC springs to life whenever Dave's insanity is brought up.

the joke should be over once the kid is eaten. (chap), Thursday, 19 June 2014 12:54 (five years ago) link

two years pass...

I wonder what Dave Sim thinks of Donald Trump.

chap, Monday, 27 February 2017 22:35 (two years ago) link

well there's an alarming thought

dave is kinda like a proto-redpiller i guess. who knows, maybe cerebus could be enjoy a glorious revival in alt-right circles soon

massive ghost dumps (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 27 February 2017 23:04 (two years ago) link

this pic^^^ was used to comment on a baby-related incident during the campaign: question is, sim would vote for the aardvark?

mark s, Monday, 27 February 2017 23:47 (two years ago) link

I thumbed through Cerebus in Hell at the shop the other day. it was sad.

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 28 February 2017 00:21 (two years ago) link

It's more cogent that parts of Latter Days! Alas without being good.

Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 28 February 2017 00:25 (two years ago) link

maybe cerebus could be enjoy a glorious revival in alt-right circles soon

I... can totally imagine this.

chap, Tuesday, 28 February 2017 13:03 (two years ago) link

i'd never thought about it before i wrote that tbh but if alt-righters can force themselves to read mencius moldbug then cerebus will seem like a cool refreshment by comparison

massive ghost dumps (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 28 February 2017 13:48 (two years ago) link

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced Sim was alt-right 25 years early. All boxes ticked.

chap, Tuesday, 28 February 2017 14:07 (two years ago) link

He's probably drifted away from being pigeonholed as such more recently thanks to his affinity with the other two big Abrahamic religions.

chap, Tuesday, 28 February 2017 14:09 (two years ago) link

read a couple blogs and he seems to be amused by trump rather than a devout follower

Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 28 February 2017 15:39 (two years ago) link

he's proto-alt-right to roughly the same degree as DEVO

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 28 February 2017 16:00 (two years ago) link

that's going a little too easy on him shakes

Cognition (Remix) (Jon not Jon), Tuesday, 28 February 2017 16:23 (two years ago) link

ha I thought it was being hard on DEVO tbh

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 28 February 2017 16:28 (two years ago) link

that too

Cognition (Remix) (Jon not Jon), Tuesday, 28 February 2017 16:33 (two years ago) link

I was browsing for dumb Dave things and instead found this - what an amazing cover.

Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 28 February 2017 23:24 (two years ago) link

two months pass...

So, after the less than successful (either financially or artistically) Cerebus In Hell, Dave has announced an extension of his reprint/paste-in line with Batvark as the launch title. "He's comics' most notorious homophobe!" This cannot end well.The plan is that there'll be a CiH one-shot on the final Wednesday of every month, and follows the conclusion of the CiH 'plot' that "of course you didn't think the Gustav Dore Hell is the only one, do you?".

I am still doing the Archive Print series, which is tremendous stuff but isn't creating much actual income for Dave due to the the unpredictable nature of release - 3 years on and there have only been 6 sets of the "quarterly" edition. Latest one is delayed indefinitely because the third (fourth?) collaborator on the prints has just left, leaving nobody to do the stuff Dave doesn't like computers. There's also an idea about a more affordable version of the prints being called the Postage Stamp Collection but my head says this is dead as a concept now. SDoAR is plodding on, largely supported by Patreon but I don't know about progress because updates are locked to donors. And I'm not at that stage yet.

Mud... Jam... Failure... (aldo), Wednesday, 24 May 2017 09:41 (two years ago) link

two years pass...
dang we're all getting old huh

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Monday, 16 December 2019 04:05 (three hours ago) link

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