Kyle Baker/Evan Dorkin: Classic or Dud?

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Both unimpeachable bringers of the funny, both with a slow comics output (Baker because he's making mad cheddar elsewhere, Dorkin because he's a tortured artist/lazy) which they've got some excellent material out of. Both fond of the three-panel strip.

What say you?

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 15:03 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

(this may not be the most fairly-worded C/D ever)

Thread started because I finally bought that Kyle Baker sketchbook from many moons back, and it is simultaneously mostly tossed off, and funny on every page.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 15:07 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Dorkin and Baker used to do a one-page strip together in the back pages of Reflex Magazine, which was really enjoyable.

I'm not familiar enough with Baker's output after Cowboy Wally and I Hate Saturn to comment on him, but Dorkin is a really easy one:

First four issues of Milk and Cheese, Bill and Ted's Excellent Comic + Space Ghost: Coast to Coast = classic.

Everything else = massive dud.

ng, Wednesday, 17 November 2004 15:21 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I am not particularly familiar with their work, but "Why I Hate saturn" = classic! and those Dorkin comics about the role playing society also = classic!

Mark C (Markco), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 15:24 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I don't really know much about either of them, only what I've happened across (Dorkin's Hellboy stories, etc.), but I believe the Dorkin one-page Rock-Scissors-Paper arms race comic has been mentioned here before and it's CLASSIC.

Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 15:24 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

They were also in a comic called Instant Piano with three no-account losers. They didn't collaborate or anything, it was just a way of getting anything like a regular output considering their workrate.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 15:26 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

NG: are you dismissing instant planet express, or whatever the hell that was called?

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 15:27 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I haven't read anything by Baker but I do have a Dorkin Milk and Cheese trade. I remember not being too impressed with it. Maybe it deserves a re-read?

Vermont Girl (Vermont Girl), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 16:07 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Andrew: I was thinking more along the lines of Dorkin's work-for-hire stuff and everything after Milk and Cheese broke big, but "Hectic Planet" ["Instant Planet Express" would be a much better title!] isn't anything special.

ng, Wednesday, 17 November 2004 16:11 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

KB's Dick Tracy adaptation was about a squillion times better than the movie.

Chuck Tatum (Chuck Tatum), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 23:28 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

ten months pass...
Is Dorkin good enough to buy? Funny things never justify their purchase beyond the first read.

Leeeeeeeeee (Leee), Friday, 14 October 2005 17:30 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I wouldn't say so. I read a lot of Milk and Cheese when I worked in Forbidden Planet (great job, you got a selection of thousands of comics to read in your lunch hour!), and it's kind of a one-gag thing (granted a very funny gag) with pretty functional artwork.

My favourite Milk and Cheese joke: They're at a sci-fi convention and a nerd dressed up as Spock comes up to them and says "Live long and Prosper." Milk and Cheese seeth for a panel then go "Eat shit and die!" and poke him in the eyes.

chap who would dare to kill all the threads (chap), Friday, 14 October 2005 17:55 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Fuck Milk & Cheese! Buy Dork #2, Dork #7 and whatever the comic that reprinted the Hectic Planet "Bummer Trilogy" from Dark Horse Presents was called, then come back and quibble.

kit brash (kit brash), Friday, 14 October 2005 23:27 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

go for the issues of Dork, and the two Hectic Planet collections

kingfish neopolitan sundae (kingfish 2.0), Friday, 14 October 2005 23:37 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Funny things never justify their purchase beyond the first read.

except for garfield, of course...

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Saturday, 15 October 2005 00:11 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

nah, the first Hectic Planet especially is awkward and clunky - the second one's getting more like "proper" Dorkin, but the Bummer Trilogy was all great, and one of the best things he's done.

kit brash (kit brash), Saturday, 15 October 2005 07:34 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

five years pass...

I'll rep for Dorkin. Dork #7 came out when I was an angsty 14 year old and it was one of the most transcendent expressions of self-loathing I'd ever experienced. I loved it with all my heart. Outside of that Dork always had a ton of great gag strips, and Eltingville had a magnificent hateful edge to it that always made KC Green's anime club (and he's a gifted cartoonist, don't get me wrong) seem too soft-pedaled and nice in comparison. I have no idea if I would still find Milk & Cheese funny, though I adored it when I was in my teens. The hatefulness and meanness in Dork always seemed like less of a contrivance to me. He's also remained very good and consistent as a cartoonist over the years.

Baker's trickier. They did some funny stuff together, and obviously he was great on The Shadow, but I feel like everything went to shit as soon as he went Hollywood and became a more conventional storyteller. And as soon as he started using a computer. Every once in a while he'll still do something great that reminds you of Jack Davis on an off-day, but you're a lot more likely to get some cranked out garbage ime.

Princess TamTam, Wednesday, 1 December 2010 11:29 (eight years ago) Permalink

plastic man was the one of the best things baker has ever done, ditto the superbaby in the microwave strip, both computer-created. his artwork never reminds me of jack davis.

Ward Fowler, Wednesday, 1 December 2010 11:41 (eight years ago) Permalink

I haven't fucked with much of his new stuff since King David, so I missed out on plastic man. I could see that suiting his strengths. Wasnt the superbaby strip banned or scrapped or something? I seem to remember that being slightly controversial.

Jack Davis... I'm thinking of the Bob Mitchum caricature in You Are Here, which was the only thing I liked about that book. you don't see any influence?

Princess TamTam, Wednesday, 1 December 2010 12:16 (eight years ago) Permalink

Or here?

http://images.businessweek.com/story/08/600/0220_mz_55comic_customer.jpg

Princess TamTam, Wednesday, 1 December 2010 12:20 (eight years ago) Permalink

superbaby strip was printed, then withdrawn (cos of the microwaving biz), then reprinted somewhere else (i think, can't remember where) many years later

no you're right, hadn't seen that baker stuff before and yeah, it is VERY davis-y, almost like a swipe, what an odd thing - i was thinking more of his hyper-realist hawkman strip in that DC Sunday page comic

Ward Fowler, Wednesday, 1 December 2010 12:31 (eight years ago) Permalink

Fuck Milk & Cheese! Buy Dork #2, Dork #7 and whatever the comic that reprinted the Hectic Planet "Bummer Trilogy" from Dark Horse Presents was called, then come back and quibble.

― kit brash (kit brash), Saturday, 15 October 2005 09:27 (5 years ago)

this guy knows what's up

i'm assuming that it's tity boi, host of the mixtape (sic), Wednesday, 1 December 2010 12:49 (eight years ago) Permalink

Is that you? Are you... kit brash?

i liked the dork strip that showed two-face flipping a coin with the punchline being "tails... tonight harvey dent fucks men!"

Princess TamTam, Wednesday, 1 December 2010 13:06 (eight years ago) Permalink

Dork #2 is prob one of my five fave comics of the entire first half of the 90s, so glad he's got something people want to succeed happening at the moment

i'm assuming that it's tity boi, host of the mixtape (sic), Wednesday, 1 December 2010 13:10 (eight years ago) Permalink

What's he doing now?

Princess TamTam, Wednesday, 1 December 2010 13:14 (eight years ago) Permalink

superbaby was in an 80-page giant that got pulped but shipped to the states first, a dude on usenet kindly bought me a copy and mailed it to the southern hemisphere (Ad3 Br0wn if you remember him Tam Tam) but was like "pfft I'm not buying more copies, I'd be embarrassed picking up all 25 on the shelf".

then the next week it was going for 900 quid or something on ebay and he was like "oh shi"

then years later it was crammed into the first Bizarro Comics hardcover, which was itself meant to have been two specials and a bunch of annuals and never included that

but all the other shit from that 80-pager has never been reprinted, which is a shame, bcz there was killer material in it. you can probably google up the fake 60s covers by Ty Templeton and Mark Waid.

i'm assuming that it's tity boi, host of the mixtape (sic), Wednesday, 1 December 2010 13:14 (eight years ago) Permalink

(Ad3 Br0wn if you remember him Tam Tam)

:-0 Bro did you post on the WEF?

Princess TamTam, Wednesday, 1 December 2010 13:16 (eight years ago) Permalink

shipped to the states UK first,

i'm assuming that it's tity boi, host of the mixtape (sic), Wednesday, 1 December 2010 13:17 (eight years ago) Permalink

Oh yeah, I was reading about that earlier. It looks awesome! I'm glad for him too, I find myself naturally wanting to root for the guy.

Princess TamTam, Wednesday, 1 December 2010 13:21 (eight years ago) Permalink

(idk if you ever realised but brass band jord@n's ex was a "filthy assistant" (urgh) on the wef)

^mods feel free to delete if a sober person thinks approproate

i'm assuming that it's tity boi, host of the mixtape (sic), Wednesday, 1 December 2010 13:22 (eight years ago) Permalink

Beasts is totally great!

tragically I can't find the Batman In The Garden Of Eden fake splash, with naked Batman wrestling an enormous penile serpent with the Joker's face, but

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b0/Elseworlds_80-Page_Giant.jpg

http://tytempletonart.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/banned-elseworlds-wonder-woman.jpg

i'm assuming that it's tity boi, host of the mixtape (sic), Wednesday, 1 December 2010 13:24 (eight years ago) Permalink

haha idk who brass band jord@n is but i remember/knew some of the FAs... perhaps i should take this to webmail

Princess TamTam, Wednesday, 1 December 2010 13:26 (eight years ago) Permalink

who drew that! that looks great!

Princess TamTam, Wednesday, 1 December 2010 13:27 (eight years ago) Permalink

Ty Templeton, I wa s saying upthread

ie Jordan not J0rdan S.

i'm assuming that it's tity boi, host of the mixtape (sic), Wednesday, 1 December 2010 13:29 (eight years ago) Permalink

xp Who was the ex? Andi Jess & Marcia were the main ones I remember...

omg does that come in a larger size

Princess TamTam, Wednesday, 1 December 2010 13:32 (eight years ago) Permalink

the garden of eden one i mean

Princess TamTam, Wednesday, 1 December 2010 13:32 (eight years ago) Permalink

is princess tamtam an old ilxor, then? im confused

Ward Fowler, Wednesday, 1 December 2010 13:51 (eight years ago) Permalink

would just like to say that Cowboy Wally is awesome

a big influence on me in a non-stabbing non-killing way (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 1 December 2010 21:16 (eight years ago) Permalink

two years pass...

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/comics/news/a453436/kyle-baker-posts-free-graphic-novels.html

Kyle Baker: beyond classic for this.

Troughton-masked Replicant (aldo), Thursday, 24 January 2013 11:40 (five years ago) Permalink

Wow! Those aren't b-sides and rarities, that's his biggest and best books! Is it everything he owns, or everything before a certain date?

Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 24 January 2013 14:44 (five years ago) Permalink

Everything he owns, I believe.

EZ Snappin, Thursday, 24 January 2013 14:47 (five years ago) Permalink

I thought Cowboy Wally was the greatest thing ever when I was in high school

Welcome to my world of proses (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 24 January 2013 16:59 (five years ago) Permalink

I really, really wish fun and funny comics were popular.

Ty Templeton's "Stig's Inferno" was another comic like some of these, I really loved as a teenager.

earlnash, Friday, 25 January 2013 04:38 (five years ago) Permalink

I'm pretty sure Stig's is online for free, too. At least it was a few years ago.

EZ Snappin, Friday, 25 January 2013 04:44 (five years ago) Permalink

never read "Why I Hate Saturn" - really dated but really good!

Nhex, Tuesday, 29 January 2013 00:08 (five years ago) Permalink

Deadpool Max is very good if you need a Kyle Baker fix. I don't remember if his Plastic Man was good but I'm gonna bet it was.

Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 29 January 2013 00:11 (five years ago) Permalink

His Plastic Man was good. His art was good on Deadpool Max, but I found it just as stupidly unfunny as every other Deadpool series.

EZ Snappin, Tuesday, 29 January 2013 00:16 (five years ago) Permalink

his Plastic Man was amazing but they never collected the last idk 8 issues or so

( ͡° ͜ʖ͡°) (sic), Tuesday, 29 January 2013 00:18 (five years ago) Permalink

six issues - the first two trades were six issues each, skipping fill-ins by Scott Morse

so

( ͡° ͜ʖ͡°) (sic), Tuesday, 29 January 2013 00:29 (five years ago) Permalink

easily found on the internet

an old penis drawing is now "new and notable" (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 29 January 2013 13:50 (five years ago) Permalink

I like paper

( ͡° ͜ʖ͡°) (sic), Tuesday, 29 January 2013 19:55 (five years ago) Permalink

five years pass...

Good new interview with Mr Dorkin.

https://io9.gizmodo.com/milk-cheese-creator-evan-dorkin-talks-about-his-weird-1827300431

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 3 July 2018 22:02 (five months ago) Permalink

four months pass...

Pretty...intense thread from Evan D last night.

I always used to say I'd never quit comics but I also said I'd never do variant covers and I caved on that one. I'm getting too old to live this marginally, especially when I have a collaborator comicblocking the most profitable project I have going. I'm just tired of all this.

— Evan Dorkin (@evandorkin) November 28, 2018

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 22:26 (one week ago) Permalink

That's a hella bummer to hear, particularly since I'm a fan of both of the major parties involved.

Uh, on a positive tip wrt the thread subjects, Baker is soloing on a new Black Panther series coming soon...frooooom IDW (no, I don't really understand that last part, either).

Welcome to Gropelord, TX (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 28 November 2018 22:41 (one week ago) Permalink

jeez, that thread is a bummer

hope things improve for him soon

dude the new bond girl’s gonna be named ‘firehose o’piss’ (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 28 November 2018 23:02 (one week ago) Permalink

yes, Evan fairly often has late night Instant Piano #4 / TCJ #214 despair threads on twitter, and not only around the Beasts co-owner tanking his career just as it was getting going after twenty years in the business. he eased off for a few years after she briefly got back in contact, but the completion of Wise Dogs has obviously ratcheted up the anxiety: it's likely that volumes 3 and 4 will both be completed before DH are able to put a Volume 2 into bookshops and libraries (if ever), ten years after the first.

sans lep (sic), Wednesday, 28 November 2018 23:05 (one week ago) Permalink

xpost

sans lep (sic), Wednesday, 28 November 2018 23:05 (one week ago) Permalink

frooooom IDW (no, I don't really understand that last part, either).

Marvel have acknowledged that they have creatively and structurally lost the ability to make comics for children, so loads of Disney IP gets licensed out to other publishers instead.

sans lep (sic), Wednesday, 28 November 2018 23:08 (one week ago) Permalink

Disney IP generally I get, Marvel IP specifically not so much. But hey, we get more Kyle Baker, won't question it too much.

Welcome to Gropelord, TX (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 28 November 2018 23:48 (one week ago) Permalink

yoo, that Dorkin thread was a terrible idea, to air out his dirty laundry like that

Nhex, Thursday, 29 November 2018 04:23 (one week ago) Permalink


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