Dilbert - C or D?

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Sharp truths about the modern workplace? The same old jokes done by someone who can't draw? Both? Neither?

Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 16:06 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't read it religously, but it's got a true quality to it. Probably what The Office and Office Space are based upon...

Vermont Girl (Vermont Girl), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 16:09 (seventeen years ago) link

The jokes and writing: classic.
The artwork: dud.

n/a (Nick A.), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 16:18 (seventeen years ago) link

It's funny because it's true etc.

Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 16:24 (seventeen years ago) link

I can sort of see a kind of funny in it that I just can't appreciate, which I think is because I've never had anything remotely like an office job. I think it's definitely in that category of "stuff you need to be able to relate to to like."

Tep (ktepi), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 16:28 (seventeen years ago) link

Oh, very very dud. I sorta blame them for the continuation of office culture, if only we could break free*

*I may be being a little melodramatic.

jel -- (jel), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 16:29 (seventeen years ago) link

C: occasional strains of rampant surrealism i.e. Hammerhead Bob, Floyd Remora, the Meeting Moth.

D: Elbonia. "It's a meeting - ABOUT MEETINGS!!!!!!! Do you see?"

Vic Fluro, Tuesday, 19 October 2004 16:30 (seventeen years ago) link

I think it was more accurate a few years ago than it is now - office culture is a lot less process-oriented and more, uh, Brentian.

Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 16:31 (seventeen years ago) link

I blame Adams' shitty artwork on the proliferation of the auteur theory in types of art over the past few decades. It's not enough to be good at one thing anymore (ie, writing jokes), you have to do everything yourself to be considered an artist. In popular music, this is largely the fault of the Beatles (after which, it wasn't cool for bands to play songs by nonbandmember songwriters anymore, the bands had to write the songs themselves); I'm not sure who is to blame in terms of comics.

n/a (Nick A.), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 17:52 (seventeen years ago) link

Has the non-auteur model ever applied in newspaper strips though?

I read someone (Bill Watterson?) arguing that the rise of non-artist Adams types was down to the space available for a strip shrinking and a (linked) lack of editorial concern/respect for drawing and storytelling in cartoons.

Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 17:54 (seventeen years ago) link

I like the really offensive Dilbert knock-offs. Set sail for Dick!

DV (dirtyvicar), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 18:31 (seventeen years ago) link

With something like Dilbert I don't think it matters at all whether the art's pretty or not. It's just the medium through which the gags reach us, and it serves that purpose fine.

Wooden (Wooden), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 19:34 (seventeen years ago) link

Is that what n/a stands for? "Non/autership"? Wild.
ANyway, uh, out of the 260 strips a year, there are some good ones, a lot of ones I wonder why I wasted 3 seconds reading, and a few I wish I had died before I noticed.

Huk-L, Tuesday, 19 October 2004 20:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm not anti-auteur, I just with that there wasn't so much shame in hiring someone to write songs for you if you're a good singer but a bad songwriter, or hiring someone to draw your comics if you're good at writing jokes but a bad artist. But I really have to emphasize that I know little to nothing about comics, so this whole auteur thing is just a theory I tossed up here, not really sure if it really applies to comics.

n/a (Nick A.), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 20:28 (seventeen years ago) link

I think in alternative comics writer/artists are the norm, and in newspaper strips. In mainstream (i.e. Marvel, DC, publishers who want to be either of those) comics division of labour still applies.

Obviously I agree with the pop stuff - outsource stuff you can't do well!

Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 20:33 (seventeen years ago) link

One of the few division-of-labor comic strips I can think of is Penny Arcade. Maybe it's more common in webcomics, for some reason?

I just with that there wasn't so much shame in hiring someone to write songs for you if you're a good singer but a bad songwriter

It's true, you have to form a band with a good songwriter to make it socially acceptable. It would be kind of cool to be the Frank Sinatra of rock bands, though, like a cover band except you'd be playing songs no one has heard yet.

Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 20:39 (seventeen years ago) link

There are a lot of the same jokes done over and over but fortunately I still find them funny.

"SIR, TURN OFF YOUR LAPTOP!!!"
"No way, I've gotta bring this sucker in for a landing! (Can I do that in Excel?)"

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 20:41 (seventeen years ago) link

Dilbert jokes we still get mileage out of, #1 of ???:

The boss's laptop needs to be shaken to reboot it, because it is in fact an etch-a-sketch.

(I think it captured in detail that weird period when you had to have non-high-tech managers in high-tech companies, because that's all there was.)

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 20:49 (seventeen years ago) link

#2 of ???

"I was just wondering, if you died, would the coffee cup walk around by itself?"

(this is more universal, I suspect)

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 20:50 (seventeen years ago) link

#3 of ???

"40% of sick days are taken on Friday and Monday; this is unacceptable."

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 21:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I find it pretty funny now and again, and hopeless other times. Yeah, the art is very weak. As for the auteur theory in comic strips, it's more honoured in name than fact, as loads of people have 'assistants' who actually draw the strips. This is generally but not always a good thing.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 21:55 (seventeen years ago) link

http://free.freespeech.org/normansolomon/dilbert/book/1.html

Chriddof (Chriddof), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 02:50 (seventeen years ago) link

The art suits the subject, I think - monotony, focus shifted to the banality of hte conent and so on. Its also standard for the medium and does that understated line art trick of conveying a great deal through very little.

As for the comedy - sometimes stomach creasingly funny, innevitably suffers from massive production targets, of course. And the material, as pointed out above, IS dating, alas.

The books are plenty of the notions formalised and expanded to complete theories, and I'd hazard form a decent insight into employee motivations.

That Slazberg, Tuesday, 26 October 2004 22:05 (seventeen years ago) link

(I think it captured in detail that weird period when you had to have non-high-tech managers in high-tech companies, because that's all there was.)

but there is nothing weird about that... bosses have boss skills, which are entirely different to doing things skills, so small wonder that bosses become head of the World Wide Wicket Corporation when they don't really know what a wicket is and whether you can eat it.

anyway, this is what you should be looking at: http://pied.nu/banned/the_Dilbert_Hole/tn/14.gif.html

DV (dirtyvicar), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 18:12 (seventeen years ago) link

OMG DV THAT IS FANTASTIC

(the best part is how Wally is virtually unchanged from the real comic strip)

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 18:24 (seventeen years ago) link

FAPPO!

David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 18:26 (seventeen years ago) link

"I thought he said cake boat."

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 18:28 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm amazed that the rude Dilbert cartoon is still on the web (given that THE MAN made them re-draw Marxbert so that the characters were just square blocks).

DV (dirtyvicar), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 19:43 (seventeen years ago) link

more here (for those who can't trace back links): http://pied.nu/banned/the_Dilbert_Hole/

DV (dirtyvicar), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 19:45 (seventeen years ago) link

four years pass...

this guy is a right wing creationist douche

it's darn and ielle is hot (and what), Wednesday, 25 February 2009 18:39 (thirteen years ago) link

Isn't he a Satanist?

Britpoppage (The stickman from the hilarious xkcd comics), Wednesday, 25 February 2009 18:45 (thirteen years ago) link

http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_dilbert_blog/2007/09/a-feeling-im-be.html

^^^this is some high-end useful idiocy

Britpoppage (The stickman from the hilarious xkcd comics), Wednesday, 25 February 2009 18:46 (thirteen years ago) link

If you let a guy like that express his views, before long the entire world will want freedom
of speech.

Um, is this sentence a joke?

chap, Wednesday, 25 February 2009 19:01 (thirteen years ago) link

OK, the whole thing's a joke.

chap, Wednesday, 25 February 2009 19:03 (thirteen years ago) link

I was gonna say!

Lots of praying with no breakfast! (HI DERE), Wednesday, 25 February 2009 19:03 (thirteen years ago) link

Doesn't sound like a right wing creatonist here:

http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_dilbert_blog/2008/05/the-economics-p.html

Tuomas, Thursday, 26 February 2009 14:35 (thirteen years ago) link

Actuallt, if you read his blog, he sounds more like a science geek with some libertarian leanings rather than a right wing creationist. Where'd you get that idea?

Tuomas, Thursday, 26 February 2009 14:44 (thirteen years ago) link

A cartoon engineer, that's what he is.

M.V., Thursday, 26 February 2009 15:47 (thirteen years ago) link

two years pass...

Scott Adams, feminist

Ah, Dilbert. For so long, you have lingered there on the comics page, always ready to barrel-shoot the inanity of office culture with your humorously-coiffed characters and beleaguered engineers, locked forever in a corporate development hell that your humor at first mocked, and then later resembled.

Mostly, though, I haven't really paid attention to you at all, at least until today, when the internet discovered a post where Dilbert creator Scott Adams gave us all a piece of his mind in a post (since deleted) about men's rights, and the fact that he thinks men suffer a level of social injustice equal to women.

After all, women might get paid less than men in our society, but men die earlier, teen boys have to pay higher car insurance, and sometimes women want men to open doors for them, so it all comes out in the wash, right? I'm not making those examples up, either; those are his examples.

And then there's this:

"The reality is that women are treated differently by society for exactly the same reason that children and the mentally handicapped are treated differently. It's just easier this way for everyone. You don't argue with a four-year old about why he shouldn't eat candy for dinner. You don't punch a mentally handicapped guy even if he punches you first. And you don't argue when a women tells you she's only making 80 cents to your dollar. It's the path of least resistance. You save your energy for more important battles." -Scott Adams

Wow. Just wow. To recap: He's comparing women asking for equal pay to the selfishness and unreasonableness of children asking for candy, or mentally handicapped people lashing out violently. He's saying that women's concern for pay equity is a petty desire levied by an irrational group of people, and he's also suggesting a very specific strategy for the men in the audience: Remember not to care.

If the above block of text reminds you of Dave Sim at all, that's because this rhetoric does exactly the same thing as Sim's in terms of infantilizing women and casting them as primarily emotional and irrational beings that men can only deal with by ignoring them most of the time, or sighing bitterly while turning up the volume on their sports game.

Women, amirite? To his credit, he recognizes that this is basically an insane comparison to make, but then not to his credit, makes it anyway. (Note: Saying something and then saying that you're not saying it doesn't magically unsay it.) He continues:

"I realize I might take some heat for lumping women, children and the mentally handicapped in the same group. So I want to be perfectly clear. I'm not saying women are similar to either group. I'm saying that a man's best strategy for dealing with each group is disturbingly similar. If he's smart, he takes the path of least resistance most of the time, which involves considering the emotional realities of other people. A man only digs in for a good fight on the few issues that matter to him, and for which he has some chance of winning. This is a strategy that men are uniquely suited for because, on average, we genuinely don't care about 90% of what is happening around us."

Adams' original blog entry (since deleted): http://tinysprout.tumblr.com/post/3713649989/scott-adams-dilbert-deleted-post

Stockhausen's Ekranoplan Quartet (Elvis Telecom), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 19:33 (eleven years ago) link

haha omg

I can never tell when Scott Adams is serious and when he's trolling

whelping at his sandpapery best (DJP), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 19:37 (eleven years ago) link

If the above block of text reminds you of Dave Sim at all,

this was my first thought actually

in my world of loose geirs (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 20:41 (eleven years ago) link

Practically everything Scott Adams writes is dripping with about five levels of bitter, self-hating sarcasm, though, which makes it difficult for me to take this completely at face value.

Like, I would not at all be surprised if he was taking a Neanderthal tone in order to set up and pull the rug out from underneath people, which seems to go along with the shellshocked reactions some of these critiques are posting.

Having said that, I haven't read it yet so maybe the whole piece really is way out of step with his usual steeze, or just an epic failure in conveying appropriate tone, or maybe he is Dave Sim 2.0.

whelping at his sandpapery best (DJP), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 21:09 (eleven years ago) link

A woman had a show about bible secrets on the BBC the other week which was basically Chasing YooWHoo.

I said Omorotic, not homo-erotic (aldo), Thursday, 31 March 2011 18:02 (eleven years ago) link

Adams since reposted the deleted blog entry and a "you are all idiots" followup. Perhaps downgrade from Dave Sim to Lileks territory?

Stockhausen's Ekranoplan Quartet (Elvis Telecom), Friday, 1 April 2011 01:20 (eleven years ago) link

what a weird guy

call all destroyer, Friday, 1 April 2011 01:30 (eleven years ago) link

If any of you have a Salon account, could you do me a favor and head over to the articles by these binarian unibators and provide a link to my explanation of the Men's Rights controversy in its proper context?

difficult listening hour, Friday, 1 April 2011 05:30 (eleven years ago) link

I write material for a specific sort of audience. And when the piece on Men's Rights drew too much attention from outside my normal reading circle, it changed the meaning. Communication becomes distorted when you take it out of context, even if you don't change a word of the text. I image that you are dubious about this. It's hard to believe this sort of thing if you don't write for a living and see how often it happens. I'll explain.

(emphasis scott adams')

difficult listening hour, Friday, 1 April 2011 05:32 (eleven years ago) link

two weeks pass...

Dude has not been helping his case lately.

Ned Raggett, Friday, 15 April 2011 20:43 (eleven years ago) link

hoo boy

fat fat fat fat Usher (DJP), Friday, 15 April 2011 20:50 (eleven years ago) link

"it rhymes with gunkyard" is pretty rough stuff there

think “Gypsy-Pixie” and misspelled. (We are a white family.) (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 8 September 2021 05:00 (eight months ago) link

That's wordplay

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 8 September 2021 05:44 (eight months ago) link

seems to have no idea how to write a coherent joke any more

Because his early stuff was taken from situations he encountered in his last cubicle job, and then the mid period stuff is cribbing from situations his fans have emailed him about that they've experienced.

Being cheap is expensive (snoball), Wednesday, 8 September 2021 17:14 (eight months ago) link

he’s at least two levels of detached from anyone who is actually working a mundane job and had the brain capacity to find humor in corporate jargon or the nuances of everyday life

mh, Wednesday, 8 September 2021 17:18 (eight months ago) link

true but he also just doesn't have any interest in writing actual humor anymore, I mean look at this shit

https://dilbert.com/strip/2021-09-08

frogbs, Wednesday, 8 September 2021 18:35 (eight months ago) link

I still crack up at this one: https://dilbert.com/strip/1997-09-10

a gentle push against my Wonder Bread face (DJP), Wednesday, 8 September 2021 18:39 (eight months ago) link

... which I actually quoted on this thread as my first post to it 17 years ago, wow

a gentle push against my Wonder Bread face (DJP), Wednesday, 8 September 2021 18:44 (eight months ago) link

If you want a real flavour of the man Adams, he has uploaded thousands of videos of him drinking coffee and talking absolute shit, tried watching one and got about 20 seconds in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCfpnY5NnBl

edited to reflect developments which occurred (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 8 September 2021 18:45 (eight months ago) link

Oh youtube embed code, here to save us from Adams

edited to reflect developments which occurred (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 8 September 2021 18:45 (eight months ago) link

six months pass...

Single again! 😁😁😁 pic.twitter.com/30c3SyjN5x

— Kristina Basham (@Kristina_Basham) March 10, 2022

That’s a shame

frogbs, Friday, 11 March 2022 02:43 (two months ago) link

good for her

mh, Friday, 11 March 2022 03:11 (two months ago) link

Has the tweet been deleted?

politics is about vibes and the vibes are off (stevie), Friday, 11 March 2022 09:15 (two months ago) link

guess so. funniest part about this is her kids from a previous relationship are still living with him, which is exactly the sort of thing that would've happened to Dilbert

frogbs, Friday, 11 March 2022 14:38 (two months ago) link

the funniest part is her explaining that the age difference became a problem

bad luck banging, or Lorna Doone (sic), Friday, 11 March 2022 15:40 (two months ago) link

Yeah I guess she got too old for him

frogbs, Friday, 11 March 2022 16:23 (two months ago) link

someone got the screenshot

I remember hearing the idiot Dilbert guy had a young Instagram model wife and thought "this is one relationship that's gonna last". Oh well you can't always be right about everything. pic.twitter.com/SxHKXiSwhZ

— Spurt Magoo (@spurtmagoo) March 10, 2022

mh, Friday, 11 March 2022 18:48 (two months ago) link

It is breast cancer but with the radiation and chemo They should be kept intact 👍🏽

— Kristina Basham (@Kristina_Basham) March 11, 2022

beepy fridges (sic), Thursday, 17 March 2022 00:26 (two months ago) link

hope she’s doing ok, and wtf at contemplating the fact she’s both got cancer and weathering a divorce. is SA the guy who divorces a cancer patient? maybe!

mh, Thursday, 17 March 2022 03:22 (two months ago) link

he probably tried to convince her that she could cure her cancer by writing "I will be cancer free" on a piece of paper 15 times a day

frogbs, Thursday, 17 March 2022 03:27 (two months ago) link

is SA the guy who divorces a cancer patient? maybe!

He is terrible. How can someone divorce their spouse during cancer?

— Kollywoodfan (@Deplora26124312) March 11, 2022

Not sure how. But I guess he was really angry or something

— Kristina Basham (@Kristina_Basham) March 11, 2022

beepy fridges (sic), Thursday, 17 March 2022 03:47 (two months ago) link

The Scott Adams / Newt Gingrich Venn diagram intersection grows.

the body of a spider... (scampering alpaca), Thursday, 17 March 2022 13:04 (two months ago) link

two weeks pass...

what the fuck is this bullshit. can you really not fucking do better than this

https://dilbert.com/strip/2022-04-03

frogbs, Monday, 4 April 2022 04:00 (one month ago) link

Number of times a real gun has been pointed at my head: 5

— Scott Adams (@ScottAdamsSays) April 17, 2022

JoeStork, Monday, 18 April 2022 00:55 (one month ago) link

The Scott Adams / Newt Gingrich Venn diagram intersection grows.

like goatse

assert (MatthewK), Monday, 18 April 2022 01:41 (one month ago) link

perfect tweet

DANNY OCEAN: Alright guys here’s the score. There’s $50,000 in unmarked bills at scott adams house. you know the drill we’ve already done this like 5-7 times

— aLec robBins (@alecrobbins) April 18, 2022

frogbs, Monday, 18 April 2022 02:28 (one month ago) link

“You can’t shoot me in the head! I created Dilbert!” - Scott Adams on five separate occasions in his life

— pixelatedboat aka “mr tweets” (@pixelatedboat) April 18, 2022

frogbs, Monday, 18 April 2022 03:22 (one month ago) link

two weeks pass...

https://dilbert.com/strip/2022-05-02

I know it's just yet another variation of the one joke conservatives have, but apparently most newspapers printed Dave as a white character, which accidentally makes this the funniest Dilbert strip in years

frogbs, Monday, 2 May 2022 16:20 (three weeks ago) link

god the comments section beneath every Dilbert cartoon really is just a right-wing cesspool, huh?

(i realize this is true of basically every comments section beneath basically everything)

Doctor Casino, Monday, 2 May 2022 16:35 (three weeks ago) link

Jesus Christ, that's painfully unfunny.

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Monday, 2 May 2022 16:42 (three weeks ago) link

we gotta pump those numbers up

JoeStork, Monday, 2 May 2022 16:43 (three weeks ago) link

whats amazing about this is Scott Adams was called out for not having any minority characters in his comic besides the intern and he responded by insisting that Dilbert had no black characters he was so anti-racist that he could not bear to make fun of a black guy. so he finally introduces a black character after 33 years and this is the first joke he can think of. not only that but he's such a piss poor artist that you can't even tell he's supposed to be black in the print version. just incredible all around

frogbs, Monday, 2 May 2022 18:47 (three weeks ago) link

one of his funniest bits is when he responds to criticism by twisting himself into a logic pretzel, just this insecure guy thing where he strongly believes he's always right but just spouts gibberish

mh, Monday, 2 May 2022 19:07 (three weeks ago) link

or, I guess, more accurately he doesn't believe he can ever admit to being wrong or mistaken

mh, Monday, 2 May 2022 19:08 (three weeks ago) link

I'm not gonna read his 90s books again but I was way into them as a kid and what I remember was that his whole shtick was basically about how to bullshit your way through life. but he at least had some sense of self-awareness, like when writing the Dilbert Future he said the whole point was to make all these outlandish predictions and then get hailed as a genius if one of them actually came true

if nothing else this dude is a good case study in how money & fame can permanently fuck up a person

frogbs, Monday, 2 May 2022 19:31 (three weeks ago) link

Quite honestly one of the most divorced people I’ve ever seen

gyac, Monday, 2 May 2022 19:46 (three weeks ago) link

one of the chosen people to have divorced man mindset before he was ever married, many years ago, and each divorce has only melted his mind further

mh, Monday, 2 May 2022 19:54 (three weeks ago) link

this guy could have never married and he’d still be incredibly divorced.

gyac, Monday, 2 May 2022 20:12 (three weeks ago) link

you know, i was just thinking of hank ketcham the other day

Kate (rushomancy), Monday, 2 May 2022 20:20 (three weeks ago) link

Dave will be featured all week, so if this one doesn't get me cancelled, more chances to come.

— Scott Adams (@ScottAdamsSays) May 2, 2022

guessing it's too late to "fix" the print versions where Dave ends up looking like Steven Seagal so we may be about to witness the funniest Dilberts ever

frogbs, Monday, 2 May 2022 21:06 (three weeks ago) link

Davebert

mh, Monday, 2 May 2022 21:13 (three weeks ago) link

what if... Dave's first line had been "Actually, I identify as Dilbert"

mh, Monday, 2 May 2022 21:13 (three weeks ago) link

why is this guy so fucking tedious

gyac, Monday, 2 May 2022 21:14 (three weeks ago) link

he's a 64 year old rich white american who would wake up at 4am to draw Dilbert before he finally quit his former day job

this was, supposedly, after several years of waking at that hour every day to brainstorm a business venture and he came up with this comic strip

note that this is according to his own retelling of how dilbert came to be, and it sounds like 90% bullshit

mh, Monday, 2 May 2022 21:18 (three weeks ago) link

Quite honestly one of the most divorced people I’ve ever seen

― gyac, Monday, May 2, 2022 12:46 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

lmao

flamenco drop (BradNelson), Monday, 2 May 2022 21:41 (three weeks ago) link

every time people seem astonished that this guy became such a MAGA tool I think about this blog he posted in 2007...this shit would make even Trump blush

https://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_dilbert_blog/2007/06/my_best_story.html

frogbs, Monday, 2 May 2022 21:50 (three weeks ago) link

I was going to make a joke to the effect of "That man's boss? Donald Trump" but there's a 0% chance of that

mh, Monday, 2 May 2022 21:53 (three weeks ago) link

absolutely loving 'divorced' as a personality trait

the cat needs to start paying for its own cbd (map), Monday, 2 May 2022 21:53 (three weeks ago) link

hm

assert (matttkkkk), Monday, 2 May 2022 22:51 (three weeks ago) link

Another banger pic.twitter.com/bkC6zXekur

— Critter Jams (@CritterJams) May 3, 2022

frogbs, Tuesday, 3 May 2022 13:21 (three weeks ago) link

Too bad Scott Adams can't identify as a worthwhile human.

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Tuesday, 3 May 2022 14:04 (three weeks ago) link


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