Dilbert - C or D?

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Sharp truths about the modern workplace? The same old jokes done by someone who can't draw? Both? Neither?

Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 16:06 (nineteen years ago) link

I don't read it religously, but it's got a true quality to it. Probably what The Office and Office Space are based upon...

Vermont Girl (Vermont Girl), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 16:09 (nineteen years ago) link

The jokes and writing: classic.
The artwork: dud.

n/a (Nick A.), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 16:18 (nineteen years ago) link

It's funny because it's true etc.

Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 16:24 (nineteen years ago) link

I can sort of see a kind of funny in it that I just can't appreciate, which I think is because I've never had anything remotely like an office job. I think it's definitely in that category of "stuff you need to be able to relate to to like."

Tep (ktepi), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 16:28 (nineteen years ago) link

Oh, very very dud. I sorta blame them for the continuation of office culture, if only we could break free*

*I may be being a little melodramatic.

jel -- (jel), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 16:29 (nineteen years ago) link

C: occasional strains of rampant surrealism i.e. Hammerhead Bob, Floyd Remora, the Meeting Moth.

D: Elbonia. "It's a meeting - ABOUT MEETINGS!!!!!!! Do you see?"

Vic Fluro, Tuesday, 19 October 2004 16:30 (nineteen years ago) link

I think it was more accurate a few years ago than it is now - office culture is a lot less process-oriented and more, uh, Brentian.

Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 16:31 (nineteen years ago) link

I blame Adams' shitty artwork on the proliferation of the auteur theory in types of art over the past few decades. It's not enough to be good at one thing anymore (ie, writing jokes), you have to do everything yourself to be considered an artist. In popular music, this is largely the fault of the Beatles (after which, it wasn't cool for bands to play songs by nonbandmember songwriters anymore, the bands had to write the songs themselves); I'm not sure who is to blame in terms of comics.

n/a (Nick A.), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 17:52 (nineteen years ago) link

Has the non-auteur model ever applied in newspaper strips though?

I read someone (Bill Watterson?) arguing that the rise of non-artist Adams types was down to the space available for a strip shrinking and a (linked) lack of editorial concern/respect for drawing and storytelling in cartoons.

Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 17:54 (nineteen years ago) link

I like the really offensive Dilbert knock-offs. Set sail for Dick!

DV (dirtyvicar), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 18:31 (nineteen years ago) link

With something like Dilbert I don't think it matters at all whether the art's pretty or not. It's just the medium through which the gags reach us, and it serves that purpose fine.

Wooden (Wooden), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 19:34 (nineteen years ago) link

Is that what n/a stands for? "Non/autership"? Wild.
ANyway, uh, out of the 260 strips a year, there are some good ones, a lot of ones I wonder why I wasted 3 seconds reading, and a few I wish I had died before I noticed.

Huk-L, Tuesday, 19 October 2004 20:00 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm not anti-auteur, I just with that there wasn't so much shame in hiring someone to write songs for you if you're a good singer but a bad songwriter, or hiring someone to draw your comics if you're good at writing jokes but a bad artist. But I really have to emphasize that I know little to nothing about comics, so this whole auteur thing is just a theory I tossed up here, not really sure if it really applies to comics.

n/a (Nick A.), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 20:28 (nineteen years ago) link

I think in alternative comics writer/artists are the norm, and in newspaper strips. In mainstream (i.e. Marvel, DC, publishers who want to be either of those) comics division of labour still applies.

Obviously I agree with the pop stuff - outsource stuff you can't do well!

Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 20:33 (nineteen years ago) link

One of the few division-of-labor comic strips I can think of is Penny Arcade. Maybe it's more common in webcomics, for some reason?

I just with that there wasn't so much shame in hiring someone to write songs for you if you're a good singer but a bad songwriter

It's true, you have to form a band with a good songwriter to make it socially acceptable. It would be kind of cool to be the Frank Sinatra of rock bands, though, like a cover band except you'd be playing songs no one has heard yet.

Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 20:39 (nineteen years ago) link

There are a lot of the same jokes done over and over but fortunately I still find them funny.

"SIR, TURN OFF YOUR LAPTOP!!!"
"No way, I've gotta bring this sucker in for a landing! (Can I do that in Excel?)"

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 20:41 (nineteen years ago) link

Dilbert jokes we still get mileage out of, #1 of ???:

The boss's laptop needs to be shaken to reboot it, because it is in fact an etch-a-sketch.

(I think it captured in detail that weird period when you had to have non-high-tech managers in high-tech companies, because that's all there was.)

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 20:49 (nineteen years ago) link

#2 of ???

"I was just wondering, if you died, would the coffee cup walk around by itself?"

(this is more universal, I suspect)

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 20:50 (nineteen years ago) link

#3 of ???

"40% of sick days are taken on Friday and Monday; this is unacceptable."

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 21:00 (nineteen years ago) link

I find it pretty funny now and again, and hopeless other times. Yeah, the art is very weak. As for the auteur theory in comic strips, it's more honoured in name than fact, as loads of people have 'assistants' who actually draw the strips. This is generally but not always a good thing.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 21:55 (nineteen years ago) link

http://free.freespeech.org/normansolomon/dilbert/book/1.html

Chriddof (Chriddof), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 02:50 (nineteen years ago) link

The art suits the subject, I think - monotony, focus shifted to the banality of hte conent and so on. Its also standard for the medium and does that understated line art trick of conveying a great deal through very little.

As for the comedy - sometimes stomach creasingly funny, innevitably suffers from massive production targets, of course. And the material, as pointed out above, IS dating, alas.

The books are plenty of the notions formalised and expanded to complete theories, and I'd hazard form a decent insight into employee motivations.

That Slazberg, Tuesday, 26 October 2004 22:05 (nineteen years ago) link

(I think it captured in detail that weird period when you had to have non-high-tech managers in high-tech companies, because that's all there was.)

but there is nothing weird about that... bosses have boss skills, which are entirely different to doing things skills, so small wonder that bosses become head of the World Wide Wicket Corporation when they don't really know what a wicket is and whether you can eat it.

anyway, this is what you should be looking at: http://pied.nu/banned/the_Dilbert_Hole/tn/14.gif.html

DV (dirtyvicar), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 18:12 (nineteen years ago) link

OMG DV THAT IS FANTASTIC

(the best part is how Wally is virtually unchanged from the real comic strip)

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 18:24 (nineteen years ago) link

FAPPO!

David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 18:26 (nineteen years ago) link

"I thought he said cake boat."

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 18:28 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm amazed that the rude Dilbert cartoon is still on the web (given that THE MAN made them re-draw Marxbert so that the characters were just square blocks).

DV (dirtyvicar), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 19:43 (nineteen years ago) link

more here (for those who can't trace back links): http://pied.nu/banned/the_Dilbert_Hole/

DV (dirtyvicar), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 19:45 (nineteen years ago) link

four years pass...

this guy is a right wing creationist douche

it's darn and ielle is hot (and what), Wednesday, 25 February 2009 18:39 (fifteen years ago) link

Isn't he a Satanist?

Britpoppage (The stickman from the hilarious xkcd comics), Wednesday, 25 February 2009 18:45 (fifteen years ago) link

http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_dilbert_blog/2007/09/a-feeling-im-be.html

^^^this is some high-end useful idiocy

Britpoppage (The stickman from the hilarious xkcd comics), Wednesday, 25 February 2009 18:46 (fifteen years ago) link

If you let a guy like that express his views, before long the entire world will want freedom
of speech.

Um, is this sentence a joke?

chap, Wednesday, 25 February 2009 19:01 (fifteen years ago) link

OK, the whole thing's a joke.

chap, Wednesday, 25 February 2009 19:03 (fifteen years ago) link

I was gonna say!

Lots of praying with no breakfast! (HI DERE), Wednesday, 25 February 2009 19:03 (fifteen years ago) link

Doesn't sound like a right wing creatonist here:

http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_dilbert_blog/2008/05/the-economics-p.html

Tuomas, Thursday, 26 February 2009 14:35 (fifteen years ago) link

Actuallt, if you read his blog, he sounds more like a science geek with some libertarian leanings rather than a right wing creationist. Where'd you get that idea?

Tuomas, Thursday, 26 February 2009 14:44 (fifteen years ago) link

A cartoon engineer, that's what he is.

M.V., Thursday, 26 February 2009 15:47 (fifteen years ago) link

two years pass...

Scott Adams, feminist

Ah, Dilbert. For so long, you have lingered there on the comics page, always ready to barrel-shoot the inanity of office culture with your humorously-coiffed characters and beleaguered engineers, locked forever in a corporate development hell that your humor at first mocked, and then later resembled.

Mostly, though, I haven't really paid attention to you at all, at least until today, when the internet discovered a post where Dilbert creator Scott Adams gave us all a piece of his mind in a post (since deleted) about men's rights, and the fact that he thinks men suffer a level of social injustice equal to women.

After all, women might get paid less than men in our society, but men die earlier, teen boys have to pay higher car insurance, and sometimes women want men to open doors for them, so it all comes out in the wash, right? I'm not making those examples up, either; those are his examples.

And then there's this:

"The reality is that women are treated differently by society for exactly the same reason that children and the mentally handicapped are treated differently. It's just easier this way for everyone. You don't argue with a four-year old about why he shouldn't eat candy for dinner. You don't punch a mentally handicapped guy even if he punches you first. And you don't argue when a women tells you she's only making 80 cents to your dollar. It's the path of least resistance. You save your energy for more important battles." -Scott Adams

Wow. Just wow. To recap: He's comparing women asking for equal pay to the selfishness and unreasonableness of children asking for candy, or mentally handicapped people lashing out violently. He's saying that women's concern for pay equity is a petty desire levied by an irrational group of people, and he's also suggesting a very specific strategy for the men in the audience: Remember not to care.

If the above block of text reminds you of Dave Sim at all, that's because this rhetoric does exactly the same thing as Sim's in terms of infantilizing women and casting them as primarily emotional and irrational beings that men can only deal with by ignoring them most of the time, or sighing bitterly while turning up the volume on their sports game.

Women, amirite? To his credit, he recognizes that this is basically an insane comparison to make, but then not to his credit, makes it anyway. (Note: Saying something and then saying that you're not saying it doesn't magically unsay it.) He continues:

"I realize I might take some heat for lumping women, children and the mentally handicapped in the same group. So I want to be perfectly clear. I'm not saying women are similar to either group. I'm saying that a man's best strategy for dealing with each group is disturbingly similar. If he's smart, he takes the path of least resistance most of the time, which involves considering the emotional realities of other people. A man only digs in for a good fight on the few issues that matter to him, and for which he has some chance of winning. This is a strategy that men are uniquely suited for because, on average, we genuinely don't care about 90% of what is happening around us."

Adams' original blog entry (since deleted): http://tinysprout.tumblr.com/post/3713649989/scott-adams-dilbert-deleted-post

Stockhausen's Ekranoplan Quartet (Elvis Telecom), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 19:33 (thirteen years ago) link

haha omg

I can never tell when Scott Adams is serious and when he's trolling

whelping at his sandpapery best (DJP), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 19:37 (thirteen years ago) link

If the above block of text reminds you of Dave Sim at all,

this was my first thought actually

in my world of loose geirs (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 20:41 (thirteen years ago) link

Practically everything Scott Adams writes is dripping with about five levels of bitter, self-hating sarcasm, though, which makes it difficult for me to take this completely at face value.

Like, I would not at all be surprised if he was taking a Neanderthal tone in order to set up and pull the rug out from underneath people, which seems to go along with the shellshocked reactions some of these critiques are posting.

Having said that, I haven't read it yet so maybe the whole piece really is way out of step with his usual steeze, or just an epic failure in conveying appropriate tone, or maybe he is Dave Sim 2.0.

whelping at his sandpapery best (DJP), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 21:09 (thirteen years ago) link

A woman had a show about bible secrets on the BBC the other week which was basically Chasing YooWHoo.

I said Omorotic, not homo-erotic (aldo), Thursday, 31 March 2011 18:02 (thirteen years ago) link

Adams since reposted the deleted blog entry and a "you are all idiots" followup. Perhaps downgrade from Dave Sim to Lileks territory?

Stockhausen's Ekranoplan Quartet (Elvis Telecom), Friday, 1 April 2011 01:20 (thirteen years ago) link

what a weird guy

call all destroyer, Friday, 1 April 2011 01:30 (thirteen years ago) link

If any of you have a Salon account, could you do me a favor and head over to the articles by these binarian unibators and provide a link to my explanation of the Men's Rights controversy in its proper context?

difficult listening hour, Friday, 1 April 2011 05:30 (thirteen years ago) link

I write material for a specific sort of audience. And when the piece on Men's Rights drew too much attention from outside my normal reading circle, it changed the meaning. Communication becomes distorted when you take it out of context, even if you don't change a word of the text. I image that you are dubious about this. It's hard to believe this sort of thing if you don't write for a living and see how often it happens. I'll explain.

(emphasis scott adams')

difficult listening hour, Friday, 1 April 2011 05:32 (thirteen years ago) link

two weeks pass...

Dude has not been helping his case lately.

Ned Raggett, Friday, 15 April 2011 20:43 (thirteen years ago) link

hoo boy

fat fat fat fat Usher (DJP), Friday, 15 April 2011 20:50 (thirteen years ago) link

Behind the Bastards did a 2-parter on this guy recently. pretty fun listen. it mostly revolves around the idea that's been brought up here a bunch, that Scott Adams is basically a sociopath who can't comprehend there are people out there who know more than he does, so the bulk of his idiotic conspiracy theories are just him refusing to read or educate himself. also makes a compelling argument that his bout with spasmodic dysphonia was when his insanity really went into overdrive. it goes a bit into his fiction books, particularly "The Religion War", which the host credits for "at least finding a unique way of being racist"

frogbs, Wednesday, 26 July 2023 18:24 (eleven months ago) link

also goes a bit into how every creative industry is packed with talented people and how there's often no logical reason why one person makes it while hundreds of more talented and tenacious people don't. and how that often causes the people who do make it to get real paranoid and weird. Scott's probably in a class of his own on this one though.

frogbs, Wednesday, 26 July 2023 18:27 (eleven months ago) link

I had no idea that he had written books. My brief reading of the descriptions on Amazon makes me think I'd rather have an ice pick stabbed into my eye than read any of them.

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Wednesday, 26 July 2023 20:11 (eleven months ago) link

you can order ice picks from Amazon too

hardcore technician gimmicks are also another popular choice f (President Keyes), Wednesday, 26 July 2023 20:14 (eleven months ago) link

LOL

n this frenetically paced sequel to Adams' best-selling "thought experiment," God's Debris, the smartest man in the world is on a mission to stop a cataclysmic war between Christian and Muslim forces and save civilization. The brilliantly crafted, thought-provoking fable raises questions about the nature of reality and just where our delusions are taking us.

I'm betting "the smartest man in the world" is named something like Scrott Babams.

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Wednesday, 26 July 2023 20:17 (eleven months ago) link

you can order ice picks from Amazon too

― hardcore technician gimmicks are also another popular choice f (President Keyes), Wednesday, July 26, 2023 1:14 PM

"... These items are frequently bought together."

nickn, Wednesday, 26 July 2023 20:21 (eleven months ago) link

Behind the Bastards did a 2-parter on this guy recently. pretty fun listen. it mostly revolves around the idea that's been brought up here a bunch, that Scott Adams is basically a sociopath who can't comprehend there are people out there who know more than he does, so the bulk of his idiotic conspiracy theories are just him refusing to read or educate himself. also makes a compelling argument that his bout with spasmodic dysphonia was when his insanity really went into overdrive. it goes a bit into his fiction books, particularly "The Religion War", which the host credits for "at least finding a unique way of being racist"

― frogbs

i mean personally i'd say charles manson did that too, though i admit that i'm not completely familiar with all the different ways of being racist

Kate (rushomancy), Wednesday, 26 July 2023 20:23 (eleven months ago) link

I read God's Debris in high school, mostly because I just happened to spot it in the library. I remember thinking 10% of it was thought provoking and 90% of it was the dumbest shit you've ever heard. And I was like 15 at the time. If I read it now the split would probably be closer to 0/100.

Granted at the time I still kinda liked Scott Adams, but after reading that I wondered if he might actually be insane. Like it's one thing to do this sort of fun thought experiment as a lark but you can really tell that he thinks he's actually uncovered the secrets of the universe here. And in retrospect you can see exactly how these "deep thoughts" led him directly to shit like Holocaust denial. Even if he wasn't politically aligned with them back then he very much had that right-wing mentality of "I already know everything I need to know, and if I don't know something it's because they're trying to hide it from me"

frogbs, Thursday, 27 July 2023 15:35 (eleven months ago) link

Same experience with that book. Brutal.

maf you one two (maffew12), Thursday, 27 July 2023 15:46 (eleven months ago) link

one month passes...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6M4px9a0AAHd1-?format=jpg&name=small

mookieproof, Sunday, 17 September 2023 20:21 (ten months ago) link

Not sure how taking this guy out would further anyone’s agenda

Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Sunday, 17 September 2023 20:29 (ten months ago) link

A younger cartoonist like Olivia Jaimes could pick up a lot of experience points by doing so.

Halfway there but for you, Sunday, 17 September 2023 20:45 (ten months ago) link

The Derp State is after him.

the body of a spider... (scampering alpaca), Sunday, 17 September 2023 23:09 (ten months ago) link

Genuinely can’t figure out if this is more likely to be a sexual assault allegation or just him looking for attention

frogbs, Sunday, 17 September 2023 23:14 (ten months ago) link

I adore that his profile pic is an anatomically inaccurate brain

assert (matttkkkk), Monday, 18 September 2023 00:08 (ten months ago) link

He also doesn't understand the physics of neckties, so

Hereward the Woke (Ye Mad Puffin), Monday, 18 September 2023 01:24 (ten months ago) link

Aw shit, is he being "gang-stalked"?

peace, man, Monday, 18 September 2023 11:17 (ten months ago) link

https://keithstack.neocities.org/dilbert.png

frogbs, Monday, 18 September 2023 13:39 (ten months ago) link

Save the brains

Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Monday, 18 September 2023 13:49 (ten months ago) link

the Dagwood Commission concluded that it was the PHB out of the window of the schoolbook depository, but rumors persist that Dogbert was seen on the grassy knoll that day...

Kate (rushomancy), Monday, 18 September 2023 14:09 (ten months ago) link

Laugh now, but when Adams actually gets murked make sure you have some laughs left over.

Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Monday, 18 September 2023 14:10 (ten months ago) link

That would be another example of addition by subtraction.

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Monday, 18 September 2023 14:13 (ten months ago) link

one month passes...

wtf is taking so long

https://i.ibb.co/98q0Jg7/F6-L-Z-ZWMAAq-Moi.png

https://i.imgur.com/VUxAMtz.png

frogbs, Wednesday, 18 October 2023 14:02 (nine months ago) link

I found out recently that the offensive for nearly all possible ways Dilbert parody from the 90s, "The Dilbert Hole," was 1. Originally on rotten.com 2. Still up on archive.org because Scott Adams lost a legal action against it due to it being fair use

ɥɯ ︵ (°□°) (mh), Wednesday, 18 October 2023 15:11 (nine months ago) link

two months pass...

sitting here laughing about the fact that "Gamer Dilbert" has more readers than the actual Dilbert strip now

still in awe that this "master of manipulation" threw away the only thing that made him relevant just to say some incredibly racist shit as a HYPOTHETICAL, like genuinely one of history's greatest self-owns

out of curiosity I looked at some of his "Dilbert Reborn" strips and they are so bad, like Elon reply guy level humor. I swear he used to know how to write a joke

frogbs, Sunday, 14 January 2024 04:58 (six months ago) link

It's been discussed upthread, but he never knew how to write a joke. His early strips were things that happened in his last cubicle job, while the strips after that were things that happened to his fans (who would email him).

you gotta roll with the pączki to get to what's real (snoball), Sunday, 14 January 2024 11:00 (six months ago) link

see I disagree with that. it's true that he's terrible at coming up with ideas and he himself admitted that most of them come from readers but if you look at some of those 90s strips you can tell he's at least familiar with the mechanics of a joke - there are actual punchlines there, sometimes they're even funny! I'd find some examples but it appears all the old Dilberts have been scrubbed from the internet, lmao

frogbs, Sunday, 14 January 2024 16:45 (six months ago) link

I found it occasionally funny too back in the day.

B. Amato (Boring, Maryland), Sunday, 14 January 2024 17:49 (six months ago) link

I remember an ex-fan writing a blogpost about it, basically arguing that he'd lost his sense of irony somehow. I guess you see that in a lot of comedians who have been rich and famous for too long but what's happening with this dude seems different. it's not that they're bad jokes, it's that they don't resemble jokes at all.

I would guess his bout with spasmodic dysphonia might've had a lot to do with this. as much as I dislike him I wouldn't wish that on anyone. to a lesser extent I think getting humiliated with the whole sockpuppet thing a while ago was probably a factor. maybe the first time in his life as a famous person where his bullshit just stopped working and I don't think he knew how to handle getting made fun of. I say this because I believe Elon Musk's villain arc started the same way - he was always bad of course but I think he really started going off the rails when people started making fun of his dumb submarine

frogbs, Sunday, 14 January 2024 18:39 (six months ago) link

how many times has he been caught doing the sock puppet thing? I know he had a metafilter account for about five minutes before getting outed

ɥɯ ︵ (°□°) (mh), Sunday, 14 January 2024 19:44 (six months ago) link

All of these things can be true simultaneously. The early trips had some fresh stuff. The strip at its best was frequently entertaining, partly because he stole a lot of stuff from others. Then he slid downhill into Trumpy right-wing bullshit.

I don't think it's a mystery. I think it's just the journey of a man who started out with some promise, began to compromise when he ran out of easy material, then got mad and ugly when the well ran dry.

What would be more surprising is if he had been able to come up with 30+ years of fresh and interesting material. There are very few people who have been able to do that.

That said, good people whose work has run its course have the sense to bow out. He does not. Because he is not a good person. His wish to retain relevance has led him to be yet more terrible (as that gets a reaction, and any reaction is better than none).

CthulhuLululemon (Ye Mad Puffin), Sunday, 14 January 2024 20:34 (six months ago) link

oh there’s like 15 - 20 years of incredibly weird and questionable things before he got on the “Trump is a master persuader” wagon

the tiniest criticism, like “dilbert just normalizes unhealthy office dynamics and gives people an outlet to laugh at while accepting them” is something people brought up and a sane man would have said “well, you have a point but that’s what we’ve got” but noooooo

ɥɯ ︵ (°□°) (mh), Sunday, 14 January 2024 20:43 (six months ago) link

thats definitely true, again this is kind of like Elon Musk where he was clearly a thin-skinned weirdo all along but was a lot better at not making headlines for it

there was a good podcast on Scott Adams which pointed that out - back in 1998 the dude was on top of the world, Dilbert was the biggest comic strip in the country, he had a TV deal in the works, his books were selling a ton, he had structured his licensing deals in a way that was making him incredibly rich - and yet he couldn't get over that Norman Soloman book, one which as far as I understand isn't *really* about Dilbert anyway?

frogbs, Monday, 15 January 2024 14:58 (six months ago) link

thats definitely true, again this is kind of like Elon Musk where he was clearly a thin-skinned weirdo all along but was a lot better at not making headlines for it

― frogbs

i'm pissy this morning

not making headlines for being weird when you're a cishet white man is pretty easy. you get a lot of benefit of the doubt. musk and adams had to really work to lose people's respect. if they weren't white men they never would have gotten to the levels of influence, power, authority, and respect they had

i don't think that dilbert was never _funny_. it was reasonably funny, in the early days. adams' draftsmanship was always poor. he was, you know, writing about his lived experience, and that kind of helps. i think someone upthread knocked that, that he was just telling jokes about his jobs, but i mean you gotta get your material somewhere.

That said, good people whose work has run its course have the sense to bow out. He does not. Because he is not a good person.

― CthulhuLululemon (Ye Mad Puffin)

i get lost when we start talking about whether "good people" or "bad people". that's just fundamentally not how i view the world. i don't think adams kept dilbert going because he was a "bad person". i think he kept dilbert going because he was a mediocre white man and he believed, probably correctly, that he was never going to do better than what he was doing

i mean is hank azaria a "good person"? fuck if i know. the simpsons has probably "run its course" four or five different times now. it's an easy job that he doesn't have to work very hard at and which pays reasonably well. i wouldn't say he's a "bad person" for not bowing out.

comic strip writers are weird. i mean. there's a long history of it. they do a lot of questionable shit. a lot of it finds its way into the comics. johnny hart, the last 20 years of bc, half the strips were just him evangelizing. i always found that super weird because "bc" literally stands for "before christ", as far as i know, and here are these cavemen talking about how amazing jesus is. i guess there's weirder things out there. but he was obviously a weirdo.

al capp, my god, al capp was this fucked up dude, like... just kind of monstrously bad. y'all wanna read that story sometime. after charles schulz introduced a minor black character into peanuts in the late '60s, hank ketcham decided to introduce a grossly offensive racial stereotype into "dennis the menace" and just went "What? What's the problem? I don't see the problem here", and it was apparently fine, as soon as he stopped drawing the grossly offensive racial caricature everybody acted like it'd never happened.

percy crosby, god, nobody today remembers percy crosby but his strip "skippy" was like peanuts before peanuts. just insanely popular. this cute little kid with wry philosophical observations about the world around him. there was a motion picture series based on it. some of the films in it won oscars. some company stole his comic strip's name and logo for their peanut butter. he sued them but lost.

anyway he started drinking more and more and the little kid started ranting about communism and how fdr was in league with stalin. they started becoming these huge walls of completely unhinged right-wing conspiracy rants. the strip went on for a surprisingly long time like that, people just pretending crosby wasn't a complete nutjob and hoping, i don't know, that he'd stop being a right-wing nutjob? this went on until december 1941, at which point fdr and the united states really _were_ in league with stalin and this guy going out here saying we'd made a terrible mistake and the person we really _should_ be in league with was hitler, well

whether any given person is a "good person" or a "bad person", i don't know, i don't care. what i do know is that it takes a _lot_ for a cishet white dude to face anything in the way of consequences for their behavior. a real, real lot.

Kate (rushomancy), Monday, 15 January 2024 15:31 (six months ago) link

Schulz would normally mention Crosby as a source of inspiration whenever he was interviewed.

The founding, popular American newspaper for this kind of right-wing editorialising is Little Orphan Annie of course, but it's part of a larger pattern of comics accommodating the (invariably reactionary) politics of the newspaper owners. Another means of persuasion.

Ward Fowler, Monday, 15 January 2024 15:41 (six months ago) link

The best ones were subversive, though.

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Monday, 15 January 2024 16:48 (six months ago) link

musk and adams had to really work to lose people's respect

well yeah they earned every bit of the scorn they're getting but it's way funnier in Adams' case because, unlike Musk, nothing he does really matters, he was a newspaper comic dude who got real famous 25 years ago and has ridden that goodwill ever since. so like to rebrand your image as some kind of master manipulator who sees 3 moves ahead and then torpedo your career with some idiotic hypothetical that he somehow didn't anticipate getting taken out of context (dude is definitely racist but the thing that got him cancelled was more just him completely misreading a situation as he always said) is just really really funny to me

frogbs, Monday, 15 January 2024 17:59 (six months ago) link

a few years back, I donated $1 to doctors without borders for every person who asked Scott to draw Dilbert as the joker. he had a huge meltdown and claimed he was being targeted by George Soros. he is an unserious, clueless dumbass who has no idea how the world works pic.twitter.com/U1tIWiVLt1

— the information pimp (@BirdRespecter) January 26, 2024

Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Friday, 26 January 2024 16:47 (five months ago) link

hopped on Twitter for some more context and uhh it's even weirder than you think

Laura Loomer and Scott Adams are convinced a stock image taken in the 1950s of a hand holding dollar notes, featured in an article about crime and inflation by the Atlantic that's also been tweeted by Alexander Soros, is in fact a coded call to assassinate Donald Trump. pic.twitter.com/5SBt2ZvNXq

— Shayan Sardarizadeh (@Shayan86) January 22, 2024

frogbs, Friday, 26 January 2024 17:39 (five months ago) link

Never noticed that "STATES OF AMERICA" was printed on the $5 bill until Laura Loomer circled it in red.

Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Friday, 26 January 2024 17:53 (five months ago) link

This does play into that piece someone posted yesterday about how Meth heads always think something big is about to go down

Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Friday, 26 January 2024 17:55 (five months ago) link

https://i.imgur.com/dNtdf6c_d.webp?maxwidth=500&fidelity=grand

mookieproof, Friday, 26 January 2024 20:25 (five months ago) link

It would appear that his only option is to go fuck himself.

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Friday, 26 January 2024 20:26 (five months ago) link

dave sim is not only a better artist than scott adams, he's far better at being a batshit insane misogynist than adams is

Kate (rushomancy), Friday, 26 January 2024 20:31 (five months ago) link

like scott i'm an asexual pan lesbian with a breeding kink who loves girldick, what are you even talking about?

Kate (rushomancy), Friday, 26 January 2024 20:33 (five months ago) link

a few weeks ago there was some article making the rounds about how Republican men were basically undateable, guess that one rang true with a lot of these guys lol

frogbs, Friday, 26 January 2024 20:38 (five months ago) link

Step 1: DEI
Step 2: Open Borders
Step 3: ???
Step 4: More Sperm!

Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Friday, 26 January 2024 20:39 (five months ago) link

Dilead

nashwan, Friday, 26 January 2024 20:40 (five months ago) link

Legit lol, nashwan. Perfect.

Wine not? (Ye Mad Puffin), Saturday, 27 January 2024 03:58 (five months ago) link

(I had been thinking of working up something like HornDogbert, but your riff is so much better. Thank you for your service.)

Wine not? (Ye Mad Puffin), Saturday, 27 January 2024 04:01 (five months ago) link


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