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I'm enticed, this looks good. Is it?

Spinoffitis scares me.

Leeeter van den Hoogenband (Leee), Friday, 3 September 2004 18:39 (sixteen years ago) link

I still haven't tried Lone Wolf & Cub yet. I look at those thirteen or however many thick little volumes, and I just think "Damn, if I really get into this, that's like $130."

Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 3 September 2004 18:42 (sixteen years ago) link

You mean 28. (Thank god for my public ibrary!)

Also, I just found out there are at least THREE volumes of Samurai Executioner.

Leeeter van den Hoogenband (Leee), Friday, 3 September 2004 18:56 (sixteen years ago) link

Yo, my public library has tonnes of LW&C too. Maybe that's what I should do this weekend.

Huck, Friday, 3 September 2004 19:02 (sixteen years ago) link


Leeeter van den Hoogenband (Leee), Friday, 3 September 2004 19:54 (sixteen years ago) link

The thing about LW&C, too, is that you feel no real pressure to be a completist about it, and you can (with no huge exceptions I know of) skip around if you like. I've read maybe a dozen of them -- the first ten or so, and I think volume 17 or something like that -- but I didn't initially read them in order. It's episodic enough that if you don't want to commit to all the volumes, you aren't going to feel left out or like the time spent reading a couple of them was wasted.

Tep (ktepi), Friday, 3 September 2004 19:59 (sixteen years ago) link

The last handful are a continuing story, leading up to the big climax, but most of the rest is pretty episodic, yes. A huge favourite of mine.

I reviewed Samurai Executioner a couple of months back on Freaky Trigger, by the way. It doesn't look much less good than LW&C so far.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Friday, 3 September 2004 21:09 (sixteen years ago) link

one year passes...
Martin, how is Lady Snowblood?

(Admission: I haven't even come close to checking out Samurai Executioner.)

c(''c) (Leee), Sunday, 11 June 2006 01:52 (fourteen years ago) link

im not martin, but i actually like it a bit better then lone wolf

anthony easton (anthony), Sunday, 11 June 2006 09:27 (fourteen years ago) link

I own the first "Samurai Excecutioner" volume; have only read the first episode, but judging from that, it's like "Lone Wolf & Cub" with the pathos and the ultra-violence turned up to 11.

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Sunday, 11 June 2006 10:36 (fourteen years ago) link

My ex-housemate sez Lady Snowblood is really good.

Raw Patrick (Raw Patrick), Sunday, 11 June 2006 11:15 (fourteen years ago) link

SE is ten volumes - and the longer stories are brill - the shorter ones less so.

Lady snow blood is a bit purient IMO. Not sold on it yet (still buying them though!)

Another Koike manga worth looking for is 'legend of kamui'. Viz published it abpout 10 years ago..

droid, Thursday, 15 June 2006 12:54 (fourteen years ago) link

one month passes...
just got LW&C volume 1... pretty rad so far.

i like how pocket-sized and inexpensive they are!

s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 24 July 2006 00:15 (fourteen years ago) link

I like how the very first story/issue of the thing lets you know what's up ASAP - GRIM ANGSTFUL MACHO DARKNESS, almost to the point of self parody. I'm a sucker for this stuff, obv.

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Monday, 24 July 2006 01:30 (fourteen years ago) link

if lone wolf and cub had a fight, who do you think would win?

s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 24 July 2006 02:05 (fourteen years ago) link


Matt Maxwell (Matt M.), Monday, 24 July 2006 02:23 (fourteen years ago) link

I still haven't gotten around to reading the first book (which is around here somewhere). The text is too small!

Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 24 July 2006 02:55 (fourteen years ago) link

i was worried about that but i got used to it. and i wear reading glasses!

s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 24 July 2006 04:05 (fourteen years ago) link

oh yeah, definitely something to boast about

s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 24 July 2006 04:06 (fourteen years ago) link

this is rad.

s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 03:31 (fourteen years ago) link

am on volume 8 of SE and bought the last 2 in Comic Showcase closing down sale. after that i just need the last 23 volumes of LW&C... (and the 2+ years to read them)

koogy wonderland (koogs), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:38 (fourteen years ago) link

I'm the graphic designer that works on the LW&C and Samurai Executioner series for Dark Horse. We're doing a new series by the same artist and writer called Path of the Assassin, which you guys might also like. I think it's already in stores, but I'm not sure.

darin (darin), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 21:51 (fourteen years ago) link

I've seen it in stores. How many LW&C spinoffs are there??

c('°c) (Leee), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 21:57 (fourteen years ago) link

I only know of those three, but there could others that just haven't been published in the U.S. yet.

darin (darin), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 22:01 (fourteen years ago) link

Not to mention the whole CRYING FREEMAN series by the same team. At least I think it's the same team.

My only wish is that the LW&C volumes were a bit bigger, though I understand the format was chosen by the authors. And what would really be lovely is an oversize ART OF-style volume. I'd buy that in a second...

Matt Maxwell (Matt M.), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 00:08 (fourteen years ago) link

I've got the first three American issues of LW&C, with the Frank Miller covers. Super dope.

gbx (skowly), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 02:00 (fourteen years ago) link

my wish is that the LETTERING was bigger!

kit brash (kit brash), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 02:34 (fourteen years ago) link

I've got all 28 volumes of LW&C and have been eyeing the 8 volumes I've seen, so far, of Samurai Executioner with a certain amount of acquisitive avarice.

I've not seen Lady Snowblood for sale anywhere in this country (UK)and I'd snap it up like a shot as I love the films.

Stone Monkey (Stone Monkey), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 15:12 (fourteen years ago) link

my wish is that the LETTERING was bigger!


Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 15:29 (fourteen years ago) link

there'd be no room for it!

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 15:41 (fourteen years ago) link

(i do agree it's a little hard on the peeps, though)

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 15:42 (fourteen years ago) link

The dimensions of LW&C are the same as the original Japanese version. Keeping this format was part of our license with Koike.

darin (darin), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 16:44 (fourteen years ago) link

there'd be room for it if it had been done by a sensitive hand-letterer, not typed into the balloons with an arseload of space around the sides.

kit brash (kit brash), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 20:54 (fourteen years ago) link

> I've got the first three American issues of LW&C, with the Frank Miller covers. Super dope.

the first 12 were miller covers then, i think, then bill sienkiewicz took over for the next 12. they appear to have recycled them (albeit cropped a bit and reduced) for the GN covers. i think there were only 43 or so of those old issues. i have the first 12 and was worried that i'd've already read the first 3 or 4 GN's worth of stories but the old issues seem to have been chosen quite randomly (based on story length? nudity?)

i'm waiting for the golfing tales... 8)

Koogy Yonderboy (koogs), Friday, 28 July 2006 08:05 (fourteen years ago) link

the words seem to fill up the balloons to me... i don't see an arseload of space around them.

s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, 28 July 2006 12:16 (fourteen years ago) link

I admit I haven't looked at one since the first Dark Horse, but that put me off

I stopped reading Nausicaa when it went to computer lettering too

kit brash (kit brash), Friday, 28 July 2006 12:32 (fourteen years ago) link

three weeks pass...
Damn, "Samurai Executioner" is some grim stuff, even compared to "Lone Wolf & Cub".

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Tuesday, 22 August 2006 09:50 (fourteen years ago) link

I love how in "Lone Wolf & Cub", every other line by Lone Wolf is a word baloon with "....", like he's constantly at a loss for words, or just trying really hard to project his omnious silence.

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Tuesday, 22 August 2006 09:51 (fourteen years ago) link

or he's actually saying "dot dot dot"

s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 22 August 2006 12:14 (fourteen years ago) link

just when you thought you'd actually get around to finally buying those LW&C books they start publishing a new 15 book series: "Path Of The Assassin":

no idea where this comes chronologically though. was SE before or after LW&C?

Koogy Yonderboy (koogs), Wednesday, 23 August 2006 13:12 (fourteen years ago) link


The main character from "Samurai Excecutioner" is killed by Lone Wolf, so the series predates LW&C.

Also, roffle:

Path of the Assassin, called Hanzo no Mon in Japan, is the story of Hattori Hanzo, the fabled master ninja whose duty it was to protect Tokugawa Ieyasu. Ieyasu was the shogun who would unite Japan into one great nation. But before he could do that, he had to grow up and learn how to love the ladies!

I hope this is Koike's coming-of-age sex comedy, like "American Pie" but with more severed limbs.

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Wednesday, 23 August 2006 15:57 (fourteen years ago) link

two years pass...

Can anyone 'round here point me to a good discussion/dissertation on the japanese popcult obsession with rape? I've done some googling but all I can find is either straight outrage or LOL those wacky asians roffling (not that I'm saying that link above belongs to this category. But it doesn't really clarify the issue either.)

Daniel_Rf, Sunday, 25 January 2009 15:28 (eleven years ago) link

(sort've unfair to single Koike out? But he's done both this *and* the script for the first Hanzo The Razor movie...)

Daniel_Rf, Sunday, 25 January 2009 15:40 (eleven years ago) link

I think most of jpop critical theory is focused on tentacles. Rape isn't particularly jpop-specific. I mean, even Uncle Buck has rape.

Philip Nunez, Monday, 26 January 2009 18:59 (eleven years ago) link

Well, western popcult has rape, and even comedy rape (though this is a bit more frowned upon, unless of course it's prison rape, which is seen as a bag of roffles), but heroic rape seems specifically a japanese thing from what I know.

Daniel_Rf, Monday, 26 January 2009 20:35 (eleven years ago) link

Did Lone Wolf rape? I thought the scenario was, "hump this lady for our amusement or we kill you both." frat hazing style.

A recent episode of Mad Men had Don Draper performing borderline hero-rape to save a potato chip account, I think.
But yeah I don't remember Wolverine or Plastic Man doing any hero-raping.

What about that inksplot dude from Watchmen?

Philip Nunez, Monday, 26 January 2009 22:26 (eleven years ago) link

Oh, no, I don't think there's anything like that in Lone Wolf, or even Samurai Executioner. Lady Snowblood forces a couple to have sex, which is close, but mostly what I've seen of Koike's tendency towards this is the Hanzo movies and that description of Wounded Man up above. There's other examples of this (Rapeman, for one!), though I'll admit I'm not well versed enough in magna to judge how common it is.

Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 27 January 2009 04:25 (eleven years ago) link

That Lone Wolf story did strike me as incredibly weird, though it wasn't the same as what's being talked about here in Wounded Man, since both participants were being forced into sex by thugs for their amusement. It had a really strange resolution though - one of the hostages who was forced to watch said something like "How could he do that?" (referring to the Lone Wolf) and the woman defends him, saying something to the effect of "He's a real man, that he could keep it up while our lives were being threatened!"

But I suppose it certainly fits into the definition of "hero rape". Oh, that Koike.

Nhex, Tuesday, 27 January 2009 04:42 (eleven years ago) link

I do agree that rape and general sexual harassment seems to be more common and treated more lightly in male-oriented manga and anime than in Western comics. I have no proper explanation for it, except maybe just that Japan seems to be more patriarchal and male-dominated than most Western societies? Now that a lot of female-oriented manga has been translated to Western languages too, it might be interesting to compare how these issues are dealt in them. I haven't read much of that stuff myself though.

Tuomas, Tuesday, 27 January 2009 11:34 (eleven years ago) link

The irony is that Japanese manga seems to have a much larger female presence (aimed material, readers and creators) compared to Western comics... it's one of the bigger reasons manga has taken off in the last decade in the US.

Nhex, Tuesday, 27 January 2009 13:25 (eleven years ago) link

Yeah, but I don't think that that female presence has all that much to do with Koike-type stuff.

Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 27 January 2009 14:57 (eleven years ago) link

^ The Koike stuff isn't being read by the FRUITS BASKET crowd, as a rule.

I need to start catching up on LONE WOLF. Those books are gonna break me one day. "Sure, what's another ten bucks?"

Matt M., Tuesday, 27 January 2009 16:36 (eleven years ago) link

Of course they're not read by the same group, but I find it interesting that you get those kinds of extremes in their comics.

I think I got up to Volume 10 of Lone Wolf and Cub before realizing I'd have to shell out another.. $200? get to the end of the story (and this was before they finished putting them out), so right now those books are sitting on my shelf begging to be completed in another lifetime...

Nhex, Tuesday, 27 January 2009 19:23 (eleven years ago) link

Doesn't James Bond as a rule hero-rape? I'm not convinced Koike is exhibiting culturally specific chauvinism unless the scenario involves subway groping or live-in house prostitutes, some phenomenon that is characteristically Japanese.

In the Jonathan Ross interview, Koike goes yes definitely Lone Wolf & Cub and his golf habits are deliberate attempts to revive a specific bygone national warrior spirit, but the hero-rape stuff seems more in the realm of generic myth-making, and even so, it's all reflective on an older-generation dude's romanticization of something rather than something mirroring current society. There's a genre of confessional manga for that kind of stuff.

Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 27 January 2009 20:24 (eleven years ago) link

Of course they're not read by the same group, but I find it interesting that you get those kinds of extremes in their comics.

Just imagine if the same comics culture could produce extremes like Little Dot and The Checkered Demon! That would be amazing and reveal so much about “their” society!

Shakir Mo Collia (sic), Tuesday, 27 January 2009 22:50 (eleven years ago) link

More about what's popular in comics culture than society, smart guy. But fine, your cherry-picking of obscure examples has made my point completely invalid! I am humbled.

Nhex, Wednesday, 28 January 2009 02:26 (eleven years ago) link

Ah, no worries, I'm sure those two obscure examples selling mere hundreds of thousands of copies each say plenty about "your" comics culture - forget about society.

Shakir Mo Collia (sic), Wednesday, 28 January 2009 09:48 (eleven years ago) link

Philip, no idea on James Bond, though I don't find it especially hard to believe. I suppose there's a fair amount of (ho ho ho, now we're really getting into crit-theory wank) codified heroic rape in western popcult, and what's shocking to western viewers is that in japanese popcult it's so up-front? I mean for Hanzo the Razor it's basically his superpower, and you don't get much more explicit than calling a protagonist RAPEMAN. I realise it might be disingenious of me to reach for theories here when basically all I have is three examples, two of which are by the same author and the third from a completley diferent period and genre than the other two, but...I do think that the western *perception* of this exists at least, it'd be nice to read some debunking of it if it's bullshit.

That Jonathan Ross thing is like the only YouTube footage of Koike, which makes me sad.

Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 28 January 2009 13:14 (eleven years ago) link

one year passes...

ha, from a david mitchell interview:

Did you watch a lot of Kurosawa films?

Some, yes. Actually, it would be manga, though. There’s an absolutely wonderful series of stories called Lone Wolf and Cub. It’s about 100 years earlier than my period. Visually, you get the interiors that no amount of scholarly research can give. What authenticity my book might be able to boast owes a great debt to Lone Wolf and Cub. You really should check them out. They really are special—though there’s a necessary quota of what we might think of as something close to soft-core porn.

emotional radiohead whatever (Jordan), Monday, 26 July 2010 21:52 (ten years ago) link

one month passes...

I realise it might be disingenious of me to reach for theories here when basically all I have is three examples

Four examples: the first volume of Tezuka's Adolf has a scene of heroic rape in it.

Leee, Monday, 30 August 2010 04:23 (ten years ago) link

three weeks pass...

> am on volume 8 of SE and bought the last 2 in Comic Showcase closing down sale. after that i just
> need the last 23 volumes of LW&C... (and the 2+ years to read them)
> koogy wonderland (koogs), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:38 (4 years ago) Bookmark

4 years actually, i took it kinda slow and finished it this morning (during which time volume 27 went seriously out of print...)

it's online here ( ) if you don't mind 8300 single page views and lots of scrolling...

koogs, Tuesday, 21 September 2010 16:29 (ten years ago) link

seven years pass...

Expected to see some mention of I Ueo Boy/AIUEO Boy/The Starving Man. Feminists are targeted by rapists and one of them is supposed to have a very strong resemblance to Helen Gurley Brown. I've heard its also very racist.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 1 June 2018 20:39 (two years ago) link

great revive

capybaras are friend shaped (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 1 June 2018 20:54 (two years ago) link

Also features The Who, Koike said he was friends with them.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 1 June 2018 20:56 (two years ago) link

Also interesting that he said that he written it for an audience that doesn't exist anymore.

I've hesitated on Lone Wolf & Cub and Samurai Executioner because the artwork is flipped but those big omnibuses look convenient and I'm very intrigued by the sheer acclaim.

The newer stories of Lone Wolf & Cub has a different but quite impressive artist and the art is unflipped.

Did Koike ever have gay sex in his comics? I was once surprised to find that manly Japanese comics of the 60s-70s sometimes featured the male heroes buggering and fisting each other.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 1 June 2018 21:14 (two years ago) link

Searching for The Starving Man without adding manga brings you straight to Altrinchams finest takeaway.

Don't remember any gay sex in LW&C but I didn't read the whole thing (the format of manga keeps me from going all out as much as anything else - look very weird filed next to my European os US comics and I don't feel commited enough to give 'em their own shelf), I remember what I did read was highly enjoyable adventure stuff. Samurai Executioner just felt like the same thing with the sadism turned up and, as mentioned upthread, rapeyness.

Daniel_Rf, Monday, 4 June 2018 09:07 (two years ago) link

Shelving size is really a big consideration for you?

Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 8 June 2018 16:21 (two years ago) link

In the age of limitless Content, any ol' shallow consideration will do to avoid getting buried in too much of it :)

Daniel_Rf, Friday, 8 June 2018 16:57 (two years ago) link

seven months pass...
one year passes...

Babycart assassin films on TCM: April 5 and 12

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Wednesday, 1 April 2020 11:49 (five months ago) link

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