here is where we list CCCs (Chris Claremont Cliches)

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just re-read X-Men Essentials, covering Cockrum/Byrne era…CCCs would occur frequently, but nowhere near as much as through the rest of the '80s…couldn't take him after 84 or so…

so let's go!

"I'm the best there is at what I do, but what i do isn't very nice…"

Q: "Are you hurt?" A: "Only…my pride!"

"Hear me…no longer am I the woman you once knew…"


over to you…

veronica moser (veronica moser), Friday, 14 April 2006 18:43 (seventeen years ago) link

I have mentioned this one before: people from different countries have one foreign word which they use in conversation as much as possible.

chap who would dare to be a stone cold thug (chap), Friday, 14 April 2006 18:50 (seventeen years ago) link


Douglas (Douglas), Friday, 14 April 2006 18:51 (seventeen years ago) link

"not today, and not by you!"

".....makes (them/him/her/it) deadly beyond imagination."

"I possess you, body and soul!"

"nigh on invulnerable"


"by the white wolf!" "tovarisch" - Colossus

"goddess!" - Storm

"bub" - Wolverine

"unglaublich!" "mein freund" "fraulein" - Nightcrawler

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Friday, 14 April 2006 18:55 (seventeen years ago) link

And let's not forget -


Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Friday, 14 April 2006 18:58 (seventeen years ago) link

"This is [insert name here]. She enjoys [list of banal activities]. In two short hours her life will be turned upside down..."

chap who would dare to be a stone cold thug (chap), Friday, 14 April 2006 18:59 (seventeen years ago) link

"It felt good to cut loose like that."

c(''c) (Leee), Friday, 14 April 2006 20:02 (seventeen years ago) link

The concept of mind control in general. Seriously: it's in two out of three stories he writes.

Douglas (Douglas), Friday, 14 April 2006 20:58 (seventeen years ago) link

"I may be talking a big game, but he's pushing my powers to the max!"

c(''c) (Leee), Friday, 14 April 2006 21:02 (seventeen years ago) link


kingfish ubermensch dishwasher sundae (kingfish 2.0), Saturday, 15 April 2006 08:03 (seventeen years ago) link

How about the use, about a thousand times, of the following between Scott and Jean: 'I love you, Jean.' 'And I you, Scott, with all my heart.' (Well, not a thousand times. 873, maybe.)

_chrissie (chrissie1068), Saturday, 15 April 2006 14:32 (seventeen years ago) link

Enourmous thought balloons explaining the previous two years of plot.

chap who would dare to be a stone cold thug (chap), Saturday, 15 April 2006 14:42 (seventeen years ago) link

"I thought you were dead?"
"I got better."

"We/I fight for a world that hates and fears us."

Madolan, Saturday, 15 April 2006 17:27 (seventeen years ago) link

I've always wondered if Chris Claremont actually talks like this in his regular life.

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Saturday, 15 April 2006 18:41 (seventeen years ago) link

God I hope so.

Jordan (Jordan), Saturday, 15 April 2006 19:01 (seventeen years ago) link

I wouldn't bank on it, unfortunately; as I think I've mentioned before, I was quite disappointed to discover that Jack Kirby never wore big crazy helmets in real life.

chap who would dare to be a stone cold thug (chap), Saturday, 15 April 2006 19:13 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, but Stan Lee does use lots of crazy hyperbole!

It's different for artists, man. I wouldn't expect Rob Liefeld to wear giant shoulder pads and have his legs akimbo at all times, and I wouldn't think that Jim Balent would have huge tits.

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Saturday, 15 April 2006 20:07 (seventeen years ago) link

Stop shattering my dreams!

chap who would dare to be a stone cold thug (chap), Saturday, 15 April 2006 20:11 (seventeen years ago) link

Adamantium, the hardest metal known...

Vic F (Vic Fluro), Sunday, 16 April 2006 14:43 (seventeen years ago) link

Alan Moore actually does say "upon" rather than "on"...

Douglas (Douglas), Sunday, 16 April 2006 16:55 (seventeen years ago) link

Alan Moore also uses the word 'incidentally' too much and the phrase 'Yeah, well' too much. It's really grating once you notice it.

chap who would dare to be a stone cold thug (chap), Sunday, 16 April 2006 17:37 (seventeen years ago) link

Is Stan Lee cool in person?

Fight the Real Enemy -- Tasti D-Lite (ex machina), Monday, 17 April 2006 18:58 (seventeen years ago) link

I've talked to Stan Lee on the phone. He is VERY MUCH into playing his persona, but also incredibly charming--I mean, I see why all those hyper-talented people worked with him for as long as they did: he seems like he'd be a lot of fun to collaborate with.

Douglas (Douglas), Monday, 17 April 2006 19:38 (seventeen years ago) link

does he answer the phones at marvel?

s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 17 April 2006 19:39 (seventeen years ago) link

When Joey Q's at band practice, yes.

David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 17 April 2006 19:41 (seventeen years ago) link

He's probably not there on Pesach.

Chuck_Tatum (Chuck_Tatum), Monday, 17 April 2006 20:04 (seventeen years ago) link

but Doug, wouldn't you say that all evidence points to Ditko collaborating with Stan through gritted teeth? admittedly, Sturdy Steve seemed to not play well with others…

as much as Stan was charming, it seems that his "I Created Everything Ever" riff left lotsa folks annoyed, such as the King.

check this out…its amazing…

veronica moser (veronica moser), Monday, 17 April 2006 21:24 (seventeen years ago) link

As far as I can tell, Stan loved being a public personality, which Ditko was, um, not cut out for, but (at least when I talked to him, and in some other interviews I've seen) he was VERY quick to give Steve & Jack & others credit for coming up with stuff, & I bet a lot of the appeal for the artists he worked with was that he gave them enormous latitude--can you point me at an example of the "I Created Everything Ever" thing?

Douglas (Douglas), Monday, 17 April 2006 21:33 (seventeen years ago) link

I think maybe it's more like Stan Lee is the public face of early Marvel, and so there's a lot of interviews and such that will say "so when you made up The Hulk/Spider-Man/etc...." he's not always going to go "well, Steve Ditko and Jack Kirby..." every time when he can just answer the question in a non-pedantic, straightforward way.

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Monday, 17 April 2006 21:45 (seventeen years ago) link

Parse my last post at your own risk, folks.

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Monday, 17 April 2006 21:46 (seventeen years ago) link

that mp3 is GOLD

kenchen, Monday, 17 April 2006 21:49 (seventeen years ago) link

I would speculate that the attitude expressed to you as such is a relatively recent development…Lee's intros to each chapter of "Origins of Marvel Comics" published originally in 1974, seem to err on the side of "I picked SD and JK to illustrate my creations."

being that he was the face of Marvel in the 60s-70s, he would often not mention JK or SD or Buscema, Wood or whoever to credulous mainstream reporters…he was burned BAD in the 1980s when fandom turned on him for these perceived slights. No less than Alan Moore alluded to "i created…" attitude in his persona as "Affable Al" in the fake letter columns and editorials in the 1963 series…

but he was certainly not alone in credit grabbing— when JK was seeking the return of his original art, he was egged on by Gray Groth to suggest that Stan did nothing.

lemme just say that I think that Stan, jack and Steve all deserve equal credit for all the awesome shit they done…

veronica moser (veronica moser), Monday, 17 April 2006 21:51 (seventeen years ago) link

no shit y'all…that MP3 is fukkin great…love those mid 20th century NOO YAWK accents…

Sturdy Steve didn't speak up…sigh…

veronica moser (veronica moser), Monday, 17 April 2006 21:54 (seventeen years ago) link

The Marvel office's collective comical delivery chops are something to behold. Kinda reminded me of that Conan O' Brien bit where he lets two minor sports celebrities who star in cheesy local commercials read out the guests.

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Tuesday, 18 April 2006 10:24 (seventeen years ago) link

six years pass...


Raymond Cummings, Wednesday, 31 October 2012 04:03 (ten years ago) link

"what the devil you playing at?"

Raymond Cummings, Saturday, 3 November 2012 03:24 (ten years ago) link

four years pass...

"No quarter asked, and none given."

Tuomas, Monday, 16 January 2017 09:55 (six years ago) link

reading this thread it's remarkable to me how much of this stuff I absorbed. peak Marvel engagement for me was right during the early ramp-up of X-Men's ascension to Best Comic status, Claremont was a rising star - I was like 12 and could only vaguely glean the way fandom worked/reacted but, like, my comic-reading friend/partner in collecting thought X-Men was head & shoulders above absolutely everything else then and it felt like he was getting that feeling from...the letters page? something in the air?

anyway, just a small surprise to me, how many of these CCCs feel more like Things Characters Say When They're Bein' Awesome when my eye scans them and my inner 12-year-old pipes up and goes "fuckin' rad, this issue's gonna kick ass"

though she denies it to the press, (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Monday, 16 January 2017 12:49 (six years ago) link

Yeah, I'm just reading the Brood saga now, and it's great! The cliches and verbosity are charming rather than annoying.

Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 16 January 2017 13:37 (six years ago) link

After a while it starts to seem like a Fast Show-style running joke about how often Wolverine is about to snap and kill the X-Men

Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 16 January 2017 15:19 (six years ago) link

three months pass...

Just filling in a colleague on the best place to start w/X-Men (he's a Batman aficionado) and As I warned him about Claremont's verbosity I also had to admit "But you know what? I fucking love it."

I also really love that mid-70s era of Marvel. After X-Men, what are the other essential series of that era to explore?

Impartial Father (stevie), Thursday, 4 May 2017 10:11 (six years ago) link

Have always thought of Claremont (and Byrne's) run on X-Men as the decisive break with the mid-70s Marvel tradition of Gerber, McGregor, Starlin, Englehart etc (Byrne especially was very hostile to the psychedelic excesses and experimentation of that era), but all of those writers and others certainly matched (or, in McGregor's case, even exceeded) Claremont's verbosity, mainly because the Marvel style - plot>pencils>dialogue - gave the writers the opportunity to fill every last bit of page space with dialogue, captions, thought balloons etc. The rise of the X-Men as a commercial force certainly coincided with Jim Shooter's rise within Marvel, which brought much tighter editorial control over the content of the comics, to good and ill effect.

Sorry, this isn't really answering your question. I would still single out Steve Gerber's run on The Defenders between issues 30 and 40 as being a highpoint of mid-70s Marvel superhero comics, and these were published at the same time that Claremont became the writer on the New X-Men, taking over from Len Wein. For the non-superhero stuff, Wolfman and Colan's run on Tomb of Dracula is incredibly consistent, beautifully drawn, and has some of the same overwrought - and overwritten - soap opera qualities.

Bernie Lugg (Ward Fowler), Thursday, 4 May 2017 10:27 (six years ago) link

maybe not quite what you're after, stevie, but gerber's howard the duck is a really great read both as an exercise in fun, dope-smoke-wreathed experimental storytelling and also occasionally some fun metacommentary on the tics and tropes marvel had developed around that time

gnaw on my meat oreo (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 4 May 2017 10:50 (six years ago) link

i think the essential howard the duck collection has been out of print for a while but it looks like you can pick it up fairly cheap on ebay

gnaw on my meat oreo (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 4 May 2017 10:52 (six years ago) link

Gerber was a chainsmoker, but by all accounts not a stoner (unlike Englehart and Starlin especially) - he just had a naturally freaky mind.

Bernie Lugg (Ward Fowler), Thursday, 4 May 2017 10:58 (six years ago) link

haha really? i assumed the man behind the villain called 'dr bong' would have an interest in smoking more mind-expanding material than tobacco

gnaw on my meat oreo (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 4 May 2017 11:01 (six years ago) link

Genuinely think that was a reference to the sound!

Bernie Lugg (Ward Fowler), Thursday, 4 May 2017 11:04 (six years ago) link

steve gerber has blown my mind from beyond the grave

gnaw on my meat oreo (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 4 May 2017 11:06 (six years ago) link

FYI, Gerber and post-Gerber HTD (including the b&w magazine) has been recently re-collected in three full-color (aside from the b&w magazine) trades with a fourth coming sometime later this year.

Jigsaw Pizzle (Old Lunch), Thursday, 4 May 2017 12:07 (six years ago) link

This is a great weird old Gerber series too:

Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, 4 May 2017 12:13 (six years ago) link

Thanks guys - shall assemble a reading list now. Your input v much appreciated!

Impartial Father (stevie), Thursday, 4 May 2017 15:25 (six years ago) link

i was wondering recently as i paged through an old claremont/byrne X-Men whether any Russian ever exclaimed "Lenin's Ghost!" or whether that was something Claremont made up.

tylerw, Thursday, 4 May 2017 15:28 (six years ago) link

By the shaggy loins of Lermontov!

Jigsaw Pizzle (Old Lunch), Thursday, 4 May 2017 15:33 (six years ago) link

Stalin's 'stache!

20-lol pileup (WilliamC), Thursday, 4 May 2017 15:34 (six years ago) link

korolev's rocket!

gnaw on my meat oreo (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 4 May 2017 15:37 (six years ago) link

By the titanic taint of Trump!

Jigsaw Pizzle (Old Lunch), Thursday, 4 May 2017 15:38 (six years ago) link

I suppose you have limited wiggle room when your totalitarian leader insists upon your incorporation of both his name and his anatomy in your gasping, choking exclamations.

Jigsaw Pizzle (Old Lunch), Thursday, 4 May 2017 15:40 (six years ago) link

five years pass...

Sounds like relatively inocuous old-man-comics-ing, unless I'm missing something?

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 10 August 2022 12:22 (one year ago) link

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