Love & Rockets - classic or dud

Ok it looks like 10-part "Maggie" = Ghost of Hoppers, which was serialized over several years in Vol. II and also collected in "Esperanza".

Ah, thanks... I read Vol. II in the form of the original collections, so I just know the material as "Ghost of Hoppers," "Dicks & Deedees," etc.

L&R must feel like the Fall discography or something to a newcomer – decades of material, packaged various ways over the years, "where do I even start?," etc.

Flipping thru the volume now... I forgot "the Frogmouth" was already involved, that far back. She's really been skulking around forever!

xp it's so convoluted Fantagraphics has a dedicated page for how to navigate it.

http://www.fantagraphics.com/howtoreadloveandrockets

lol I still can't keep track, that website doesn't explain how those larger collections relate to the older numbered collections

I had everything in either the old book style or single-issue form up to #50. Do I just keep buying the "New Stories" volumes? n.b. I am aware that extra material was added to the books that comprise my single issues, but I ain't buying "Poison River" again.

Well, there are 4 volumes:

V1 was 50 issues from 1981-1996
V2 was 20 issues from 2001-2007
V3 ("New Stories") was 8 paperbacks from 2008-2016
V4 is 2 issues so far, both published in the last 6 months or so

The 11 inexpensive "Love & Rockets Library" mass-market paperbacks have so far collected all 70 issues of V1-V2 plus some standalone stuff like "Penny Century"; I emailed FG several months ago and at that point they had no current plans to publish "New Stories" in library format, though I'm sure it'll happen eventually.

There's also the 28 or so collections (the ones about 100-150 pages each, give or take) that run through all of V1-V2 but also part of V3. At this point, they're completely obsolete, unless there's some advantage over the mass-market paperbacks that I'm not aware of.

There's ALSO a couple of big giant books (Locas, Locas II, Luba, etc) that are also now obsolete I think (they're also edited and incomplete).

anyway if you've read everything in V1 & V2, then yeah, buy all 8 New Stories and then buy the first 2 of the new V4 issues

At this point, they're completely obsolete, unless there's some advantage over the mass-market paperbacks that I'm not aware of.

Books like "The Love Bunglers" continue this sequence. Art at the larger size is a plus I guess.

Yeah, just stick to the 11 mass market paperbacks + the 8 New Stories annuals + the 3-issue Tales of Old Palomar and you're caught up to the current series that's two issues in. Then you can go down the twisting path of tangentially-related Beto stuff like Birdland and the Fritz movie adaptations if you're feeling nuts. Avoid the giant incomplete hardcovers.

what I have:

old style big books ("Duck Feet", "Death Of Speedy", "Tears From Heaven", etc.) - Vols. 1-7, 9, 12, 15.

issues 29-50 of Vol. 1

one offs in that weird interim period:

Penny Century 1-7
Girl Crazy 1-3
Fritzi & Petra #1
Birdland (I lost #3 somehow, aren't these a whole book now?)
Luba 1-6
Maggie & Hopey
New Love 1-6
most of the Measles run
Grip 1-5
The Adventures Of Venus
"Love & Rockets" (I assume this is Vol. 2? regular size comic books with cardstock covers) 1-10 (missing #5)
"New Stories" 1, 2, 3, 5

then I got confused/gave up

so what do I need to get caught up with Vol. 2? I guess I need something that collects issues 11-20 and I need #5? am I missing anything significant in the 11-volume trade PB series that I mostly already have?

Well almost all of Jaime's V2 is in "Esperanza" (with one or maybe two stories in "Penny Century"); Gilbert's is spread across "Luba and Her Family" and "Ofelia"

sweet, thanks, that'll do.

I also have Whoa Nellie #1

ugh wait wait wait apparently according to the links at https://www.comics.org/series/85905/ and digging into the indexes of the V2 issues, Gilbert's work from V2 is NOT collected in the L&R Library books at all, but is instead only in the "Julio's Day" and "High Soft Lisp" books??? ugh what the fuck

hahaha OK thanks, duly noted

they really make it hard

never fails to confuse me.

just buy the first collection of everything and you stay golden

Art at the larger size is a plus I guess.

numbered spines til I die for this reason

Birdland (I lost #3 somehow, aren't these a whole book now?)

1-3 were expanded for a collection so that the page count would be hilariously apposite. He later did a Birdland special, which was later added into a larger collection. Both collections are now long out of print.

what I have: old style big books ("Duck Feet", "Death Of Speedy", "Tears From Heaven", etc.) - Vols. 1-7, 9, 12, 15.
issues 29-50 of Vol. 1

Whoa -- I also have issues 29-50! (Plus Vols. 1-11 of the OG collections.) How funny that we each started with #29 (rooster cover).

As I mentioned above, I have Vol. II and the Penny Century stuff covered via the books (starting with "Locas in Love"); though I also have issue #20 of Vol. II, as I believe that contains a Maggie/Rena story that wasn't collected anywhere else (...could be wrong).

(Also, fwiw, I'm only a Jaime completist; lost track of Gilbert after Vol. I ended.)

Yeah, Beto's hard to keep up with. I forgot that his v2 work hadn't been collected as part of the mass market trade series yet.

I have the original 15(?) trades collecting v1 (really should sell these someday since the new trades collect the same material) and then I just started buying everything from the beginning of v2 on. So I guess I'm lucky to not have to worry about what I'm missing. Except for the 428 Beto side projects which I'll probably never get around to picking up.

the latest gilbert collections ("luba and her family" and "ofelia") contain vol. 2 stuff.

the wikipedia page for love and rockets does a decent job of listing the various existing books.

If your copy of Book 2 looks like this, I'll happily buy it from you. Mine is some older version that doesn't match the rest of the volumes; it's always kinda bugged me...

(Hmm... spent time on that l33t coding, and somehow my link didn't work)

ha I can't see that but seeing as how I bought my Book Two in 1987 or so it is probably older, iirc a light blue cover w/Luba.

It's a nightmare trying to stay on top of this but I think the Luba hardcover is the only place to get the piece from Vol 2 #20. Fanta sez:

Note to collectors: this volume collects stories which originally appeared in the comics series Measles, Luba and Luba's Comics and Stories and were previously collected in the softcover collections Luba in America, Luba: The Book of Ofelia, and Luba: Three Daughters; the final chapter, from Love and Rockets Vol. II #20, is previously uncollected

I guess it might be in the Ofelia paperback, since that came out after?

Anyhoo, I enjoyed Vol 4 #2 quite a lot but I'm a sucker for the Maggie & Hopey Punk Rock Nostalgia Trip.

Punk Rock story is definitely the best, Viv and Angel storyline also pretty good. The rest of the stuff I can take or leave.

<i>ha I can't see that but seeing as how I bought my Book Two in 1987 or so it is probably older, iirc a light blue cover w/Luba.</i>

Yep, that's mine, too... slightly smaller format than the others, with a totally different design scheme.

the latest gilbert collections ("luba and her family" and "ofelia") contain vol. 2 stuff.

those are actually collections of some spin-off Luba comics. In V2 he serialized mostly Julio's Day and High Soft Lisp, which has only been collected in the "Julio's Day" and "High Soft Lisp" books. https://www.comics.org/series/17785/ has links to each V2 issue containing tables of contents and references to where each story has been collected elsewhere so far.

how feasible is it for me to just fuckin buy the old Vol. 2 issues 11-20? are back issues on eBay or something?

fanta sells most (maybe all?) of them online

if they are on the site, I don't see them.

ah, they are grouped (in no order) under "Comic Books"

the colour Maggie story fro the New York Times is also in The Art Of Jaime Hernandez

Ah yeah I have that too

for everybody's information, Vol. II #s 5, 13, 15 and 20 (at least) are out of print now and not on Fanta website, still out there used for reasonable prices but not for long I imagine.

Still confused about whether the big books (numbered spines) have more material than the original comics, like didn't Poison River boast about 100 extra pages or some such? Is this the case with the new, non-numbered books collecting Vol. II stuff as well?

signed,

still confused

The Wikipedia "Poison River" page says:

For the completed book edition Hernandez divided the story into seventeen chapters and added another sixteen pages, and prefaced each chapter with an illustration of one of the characters, suggesting the chapter was to focus on that character.[13]

*serialization

I wrote an amazon review about poison river. That's a great book. I was also annoyed that they left it out if the big Palomar book because it included what seemed like useful backstory.

haha I saw that!

"100 Rooms" was significantly expanded for the first collection it appears in (and I assume any subsequent collections, like that big "Locas" book, use that version, as well).

"Ti-Girls" also apparently gained new panels for its collection, though I haven't bought any of the New Stories collections (just the original issues).

FYI -- Fanta's having a 20% off (everything) sale today.

Goddamnit.

Latin American cultural references largely unfamiliar to English-speaking audiences, such as to lucha libre, Frida Kahlo, Cantinflas, and Memín Pinguín, may also have played in a role in the book's cold reception.

ppl are fucking morons

English-speaking people, anyway.

I'm a bit skeptical... "cold reception" by whom? (I searched the quote and found the "Reception and Legacy" section of the Wikipedia entry for "Poison River"... the footnotes mainly refer to a few articles which aren't online, so I guess okay...)

("Wikipedia still suxx in 2017")

All this L&R talk inspired me to re-read "The Death of Speedy Ortiz" (and its prelude, "The Return of Ray D."). For me, the era these stories kick off (1987-90) was a high-water mark for both Jaime's art and writing. "The Death of Speedy" collection (Vol. 7 of The Complete Love & Rockets) was also the first L&R book I ever bought, shortly after its publication; so it has a special hold on me for that reason, as well (like the first album you ever heard from your favorite band).

Anyway, I revisit this book every so often, and still find something new to appreciate each time. "The Death of Speedy Ortiz" is basically flawless... and what strikes me now is the "economy" of the storytelling. It's not a particularly long story, but it "feels" heavier and more substantial in your memory. It's as though Jaime only shows you certain (key) scenes from a story that could have been twice as long... almost as if it were edited down from a longer version (but gaining clarity, rather than losing substance, in the editing). The scenes are brief; each dialogue exchange moves the story along; every panel feels "necessary" and "just right"; but what Jaime chooses to show you also feels loose and natural, not labored over. You're left with the impression that he could have shown you an almost entirely different set of scenes from the same story, but this is what he happened to choose, and it works beautifully.

Without getting too deep into it, I feel you could make the case that each main character, in almost every scene has a "motivation" and objective (as is discussed in relation to filmmaking/acting), and this is part of what drives the narrative momentum. Finally, there's also a light "soap opera" element, coexisting with both "realism" and familiar comic-book tropes, that I had almost forgotten about as an element of Jaime's work (as the "soap opera" dimension has receded in his storytelling over time). It all still feels so fresh and perfectly realized, even 30 years down the road...

I just had a lightbulb over head — Jaime : Speedy's death :: Ozu : the grandmother's death in Tokyo Story.

working my way through the last half of Vol. II individual issues, and man there is some great stuff in there. I also never had #5 so I missed the Penny/H.R. origin story, which I loved.

How funny that we each started with #29 (rooster cover).

sadly I started with #15 but 15-28 were stolen from my house in late '99.

That sucks!!

what kind of asshole steals comic books