Let's talk about Jack Kirby

Kinda reminds me of the manly tears trope in stuff like Fist Of The Northstar and Crying Freeman that Paranoia Agent parodied.

heh

still think the x-men/dark phoenix cover is the best version of that trope

Doesn't the Dark Phoenix cover predate the Crisis on Infinite Earths by several years? Which would make it the original one that later covers are homaging, even if they are doing by proxy via referencing the CoIE cover... I'm pretty sure Perez was intentionally homaging Byrne there, if you look at the two covers, the positioning of Cyclops/Phoenix and Superman/Supergirl in the two is almost identical, and both of them also feature mourning heroes in the background:

http://www.uncannyxmen.net/sites/default/files/images/covers/uncanny/uncanny136.jpg

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070226142252/marvel_dc/images/7/71/Crisis_on_Infinite_Earths_7.jpg

Of course there are earlier examples of the Pieta pose in comic book covers, but they don't look quite the same:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_small/0/4/5963-796-6523-1-batman.jpg

IIRC the cover for X-Men #136 was quite iconic back in the day, so a lot of readers would've recognized the CoIE #7 cover as homage to it, and I don't think Perez was trying to hide it. But at some point CoIE #7 has replaced X-Men #136 as the original Pieta cover in people's minds, maybe because CoIE was more "important" as a story (though not necessarily more popular?), and because Supergirl actually stayed dead while Jean Grey didn't.

Doesn't the Dark Phoenix cover predate the Crisis on Infinite Earths by several years? Which would make it the original one that later covers are homaging

it does, but aren't they all referencing the Michaelangelo sculpture? As that link above says:

One of the most prevalent homage cover themes is sometimes referred to as the Pieta Cover, a reference to Michelangelo’s famed Pieta sculpture. Depicting the body of Jesus Christ in the arms of his mother Mary, the Pieta conveys a sense of quiet grief and profound helplessness in the face of death.

The Pieta differs from the X-Men and Crisis covers tho, in that in the sculpture, the dead Christ is resting in Mary's lap - neither figure is standing. I'm sure that both images are routinely described as Pieta Covers, but it doesn't seem entirely accurate - are we certain that Byrne was referencing Michaelangelo?

xp Are you straight-facedly suggesting that Perez thought "I'll reference the Pieta, lots of people like that", then accidentally drew the figures in a different pose, but the same pose as the Byrne X-Men?

well no - i mean, i didn't know pieta was the reference until reading the link above, tbh. and of course the x-men cover ran first, i didn't say it didn't.

Yeah, these covers are usually called Pieta homages, but the actual statue looks quite different from most of them, so it's a bit of misnomer. The only cover I can think of that that clearly homages the statue itself (instead of Byrne or Perez) is Jim Starlin's cover for The Death of Captain Marvel:

http://files1.comics.org//img/gcd/covers_by_id/26/w400/26145.jpg

Tuomas otm

If you want basically the same pose (instead of the Batman mirror image) Neal Adams did it on a Lois Lane cover in 1968.

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/supermankills4.jpg

Was Perez citing the X-Men cover? I assume so. Was he also citing this Superman image, and several related ones from the 60s, as well as the pieta? I assume so.

lois lane comics always so dark and fucked up

That Lois Lane cover isn't by Adams (smart money seems to be on the great Bob Oksner, tho to my eyes it looks like Dick Giordano inked it, which maybe accounts for the Adams confusion)

Fair enough.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10968396_903519399678788_9150567400233186763_n.jpg?oh=78246e338f2da7ed0f06f2eca33fc8f4&oe=5585C118&__gda__=1431532448_23b27d882136e93b2b44927a12adb930

A v v gd friend of mine did this recently, as part of his 'Dodgy Drawings for Red Nose Day 2015' project (you can donate here: http://my.rednoseday.com/sponsor/worldofagwu)

http://41.media.tumblr.com/ddce01a41e0229dba2f398d07bdaf1cc/tumblr_mtqzyuUdpr1qemxfbo1_1280.jpg

http://kirbymuseum.org/blogs/dynamics/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2013/03/captain-america1.jpg

http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/comicsalliance.com/files/2011/03/gctnhmlpm.jpg

omg yessss

Kirby's 98th birthday. Lots of stuff on the interweb - I liked this pic of him and Joe Sinnott

https://www.facebook.com/joltin.joe.sinnott/photos/a.474329875913076.113315.474329302579800/1030244710321587/?type=1

Good piece by Evanier, today, too.

Did I fuck that up? I am Lex-level bad at this shit.

Those IDW Kamandi and Mister Miracle and New Gods original art reprint books torment me every fucking time I go into Forbidden Planet in Glasgow.

just saw the Kirby-ponies for the first time, that's great

genuine Kirby horse:

http://www.writeups.org/img/inset/Lonar_h3.jpg

Yes, he is great on horses, animals in general - it's why kamandi is sooo good

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11913880_1030244710321587_119517387468542795_n.jpg?oh=030311100d74b3863ecc451321d06876&oe=56844FE3

It was worth waiting for wasn't it! TY

I think that was taken in 1975 and it was the first (and last?) time they ever met in person

can someone recommend a good cosmic/psych Kirby collection? folks are hitting me up for xmas ideas and it would be nice to have some cool 60s/70s comics to read. Dr. Strange? i haven't read much of any of it so whatever is taken to be his "best". i prefer it erring on the side of weird/cosmic rather than superhero teams....

Dr. Strange is Steve Ditko dood.

FF Omnibus vol 2, Marvel Masterworks Thor Vol. 6, all the 4th World omnibuses

Celestials is also great. Kamandi.

Reading "Hand Of Fire:The Comics Art Of Jack Kirby" at the moment and I can't recommend it enough.

2001 is fairly cosmic/psych of high regard

I think by 'Celestials' Shakey means The Eternals, which is def the high point of Kirby's 70s freaky unfettered cosmic shit, if not necessarily the most coherent or complete.

The Omac collection is pleasingly compact (just six issues) and I've always felt that The Demon is a bit underrated - Kirby's mad version of Universal Monster horror

Haha yes wtf me

2001 for sure

2001 has not been collected though has it?

Eternals is a good call.

Heh, checked my Omac collection and it's actually eight issues not six, and most of 'em are unfortunately inked by D. Bruce Berry rather than Mike Royer, so visually they are not quite as primo as some other seventies Kirby. They were also pretty much the last things Kirby drew for DC before moving back to Marvel, and at times they feel a bit half-hearted. Still, Buddy Blank!

2001 has not been collected but I snagged the lot for pretty cheap a few years back.

Far too many of the collections mentioned itt are out of print (and selling for ridiculous cash, natch).

Mr. Big can "Rent-a-city" for ASSASSINATION!!!

Torrents have been a boon for my kirby exploration

http://www.artinamericamagazine.com/news-features/magazine/genius-in-a-box/

also: Nadel has beef w Evanier apparently

The text is tiny & grey on phone but I can't see Nadel saying anything about Evanier there?

(unless yr suggesting that he's implicitly poo-pooing Evanier's 1/3 of a biography on its merits, rather than talking abt the larger culture?)

((Generally I can't see their aesthetics getting close enough to even have a disagreement - Picturebox vs a guy who doesn't seem to have read a comic book or seen a fictional TV show since the minute he first got paid to write either, as a teenager))

http://www.tcj.com/88491-2/

Link on that page to a beautiful tom hart interview.

i worked with tom tangentially on a project where he was teaching animation to a group of teenagers. they loved him. he's a sweetheart of a guy and rosalie lightning is heartbreaking.