2012 what are you reading thread

i even started to feel sorry for the father

you're meant to feel sorry for Vladek in Maus! Artie is a total dick

i feel like 'this is a bad comic because it appeals to people who don't read a lot of comics' is kind of a bad look

nobody is saying that

and all the people i know who think bechdel is a great comic artist tend not to be comic nerds

forks comment that her work appeals more to non-nerds seems otm to me

those things are true, but it isn't what makes her work bad (imho)

to invoke maus again, its p obvious why it might appeal to ppl not marinated in comic bk lore - 'big' subject, provocative metaphor, simple drawing/storytelling etc - but maus is a great work of art, and fun home ain't

a lot of the work is being done in the relation between the always-reflecting narration and the always-dramatising images.

http://ed-rex.com/sites/default/files/2010_09/fun_home_page_93.jpg

there's also the insistence on the form of the fun. home itself, that it is visibly there all the damn time is important.

http://hoodedutilitarian.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Fun-Home-09.jpg

sure, it's a cartoonist's comic, it's not formally innovative, and there are ways the same point could be put across in other media. but to claim it's 'masquerading as comics' seems a stretch.

also, maus is fn awful

also, sic - yeah, but vladek is a dick too!

lol thomp i will leave you with yr horticultural virtuosity and i will stick w/ my maus, ty

not sure what you mean by 'cartoonist's comic', and the relation/disjuncture between narration and image is obv a p common feature of films etc w/ voiceovers, tho yes, it's interesting to see it tried in comics i guess. maybe i just find bechdel v v boring, i dunno

I thought Fun Home was likable, but Dykes to Watch Out For is Bechdel's magnum opus. Everyone should check that one out, even if you didn't like FH... It's less lit crit friendly (more like a political lesbian sitcom), and more "comicky", if that's what you prefer. A reasonably prized "Essential" collection that collects about two thirds of all the strips came out a couple of years ago, though personally I'd recommend acquiring the softcover collections which have all the strips plus some extra material.

It's kinda interesting how Bechdel's comics have been marketed to people outside the regular comic book audience, though. For example, my copy of Hot, Throbbing Dykes to Watch Out For has a cover that looks like this:

http://images.whitcoulls.co.nz/images/ar/97815634/9781563410864/0/0/plain/hot-throbbing-dykes-to-watch-out-for.jpg

But the more recent DtWOf editions have a unified cover design that looks totally different:

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/1563410869.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

As a comic book fan I obviously prefer the first, more cartoonish cover, but you can see how the newer covers were designed to make the the books more "respectable" and easier for non-comic book types to buy.

I thought Fun Home was good work technically and structurally, but I'm not a huge fan of memoir from the start, so her let-me-sell-you-my-self-performed-psychoanalysis didn't really move me.

I read Fun Home compulsively in one sitting and was def engaged by it but found it a very chilled experience. Controlled almost to a fault.

Got My Friend Dahmer at the Mocca fest 2 weeks ago and loved it. Not sure if Derf's style (which reminds me a little of Max Crumb's) would lend itself well to subjects NOT involving psychosis? Makes me want to check out his GN about punk rock or the one about being a garbageman.

can i just

http://photo.goodreads.com/books/1308048274l/2959319.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c5/Completepeanutsvol15052.jpg

Yeah, I was gonna say that the new Peanuts reprints seem to be following the same logic as the new DtWOF editions.

I like well-designed covers! I don't think that they make the book as a package less comicky, just more like a nice complete package. Some comic artists are good at graphic design, some aren't, and it doesn't really matter on floppies but having a nice graphic designer stamp-of-approval on covers that puts them on the same footing as prose books makes for a nice mixed bookshelf, imo.

the p'nuts reprints are plainly not trying to draw in non-comics buyers, they're comprehensive reprints of the comic strip peanuts

the new Peanuts reprints seem to be following the same logic as the new DtWOF edition

these are apples and oranges, not even comparable imho

the fanta peanuts volumes have been a massive success, kept fanta in business and then some etc, and their 'look' has been much copied throughout the industry eg

https://shop.idwpublishing.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/d/i/dicktracy_11.jpg

the design on the peanuts volumes is by seth, of course, so that's one cartoonist paying tribute to another (and in fact, using design to communicate his feeling/appreciation for the comic). simiarly, chris ware has done design work on gasoline alley and krazy kat reprints. i don't know if that's the same w/ the two bechdel volumes, or if she designed the covers herself. i actually prefer the second version, because on the evidence of the first cover, bechdel isn't much of a colourist, again assuming she coloured it herself (a surprising number of great cartoonists are actually poor colourists of their own work!)

of course, the success of the peanuts reprint bks is mostly due to the fact that peanuts is one of the two or three most popular comic strips worldwide ever - making the distinction btween comic readers and non-comic readers meangingless - and it has never before been reprinted complete in sequence with v good reproduction. they cld prob have designed it on indesign in abt five seconds and it wld still have sold v v well.

Also the older Peanuts paperbacks (1960s ones iirc) are not a world away from the Seth design sensibility.

the example that thomp gives above is a uk edition, which were condensed versions of the (yes, v. nice-looking) american originals. i don't know abt the us editions, but those little britishes paperbacks had to print the panels vertically rather than horizontally to fit the page format - so, not an especially effective way to follow schulz' storytelling.

I thought I remembered as a child them being 6 panels to a page therefore 2 days and it being 1-2/3-1/2-3 in setup. Then again, I had the Peanuts Festival which was 3 panels across.

I read the Peanuts reprints avidly until about 1970, when I suddenly stopped liking them. This has not happened with Dick Tracy, Walt & Skeezix, Krazy Kat, Popeye...

In fact, I finished Popeye the other day. Some of the panels in this edition are the funniest of the lot, but as a whole the series has been one of the finest things I have ever read.

i actually prefer the second version, because on the evidence of the first cover, bechdel isn't much of a colouris

I have no interest in reading this in general but the original one is fucking hideous, would never pick that up. the second one is just a superior design.

Also the older Peanuts paperbacks (1960s ones iirc) are not a world away from the Seth design sensibility.
― Hierophantiasis (Jon Lewis), Friday, May 11, 2012

2/3 of the way through JUDGE DREDD COMPLETE CASE FILES, VOL. 2. McMahon's got a lot of energy, but his main purpose seems to be to bum we out that I'm not, at that moment, looking at Bolland or Ewins.

yeah, but vladek is a dick too!

sure but 2/3 of the book is about WHY he's such a dick as an old man, Artie's mostly just a brat

Some comic artists are good at graphic design, some aren't, and it doesn't really matter on floppies but having a nice graphic designer stamp-of-approval on covers that puts them on the same footing as prose books makes for a nice mixed bookshelf, imo.

the original Dykes were never in floppies nor sold to a "comic book" audience - they were in Kliban-format TPBs and probably sold 55% in gay bookshops, 40% in other independent bookshops, and 4.9% in US chains, with .1% in a handful of comic shops that ordered them direct from Firebrand

anyway that first one is fun and gives an idea of the tone of the strip and is inviting due to being by the author's hand - the second one is stiff and awful and looks like a textbook. (And due to the designer obviously taking ten minutes flat to knock it up on computer, makes one not feel like investing one's own time into it.)


The earliest Dick Tracy volumes were a DIRECT copy of Seth's Peanuts covers, to the point where it's mindboggling they could even credit, and bothered to pay, Ashley Wood (!). When Dean Mullaney came on board at IDW he changed it up as much as possible while keeping the same vibe, presumably out of sheer embarrassment.

As a comic book fan I obviously prefer the first, more cartoonish cover, but you can see how the newer covers were designed to make the the books more "respectable" and easier for non-comic book types to buy.

― Tuomas, Friday, May 11, 2012 8:58 AM (8 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

jeez louise, as fan of half-decent design (and comic books, obviously), i prefer the recent edition. the fact that something is a comic book is no excuse for bad coloring, cramped layouts and gross lettering.

also, maus is fn awful

― thomp, Friday, May 11, 2012 8:31 AM (9 hours ago)

thank god for crazy people. more mice for the rest of us.

i don't read many comics anymore. this is about it at present:

1) was optimistically following several of DC's new 52 titles, but now i'm down to, well, to none. not even morrisson's action comics, and i'm a card-carrying g-moz fanboy. have heard good things about mieville's dial H, so i might give that a shot...

2) i kind of love graham's prophet, esp w dalrymple on board. need more of this kind of non-continuity bound, wildly inventive, galaxy-spanning, psychedelic sci-fi.

3) ADVENTURE TIME!

4) brian churilla's the secret history of DB cooper is awesome so far. worried that it's gonna bog down in "serious espionage" shit.

5) always up for more orc stain, when and if it comes out.

6) jon lewis apparently has true swamp out in paper again. want, but have't seen a copy yet.

7) was excited by the vaguely moebius-like art and colors of the first issues of azzurello's spaceman, but the story got boring quick and the patois killed it for me.

that's it, i guess. would buy basically anything drawn by graham, pope, quitely, andy clarke or frazier irving, but i don't know what they're up to at the moment. not to mention brendan mccarthy, perpetually MIA.

psyched to have king city in a nice bound volume, flex mentallo, too. recoloring doesn't bother me. kate beaton's hark! a vagrant is probably my single favorite comics-type purchase of 2012 though. want the fantagraphics joost swarte book, but can't afford it at the mo. wonder if we'll ever see a second volume of x'ed out. and if we do, whether it'll come to us via pantheon.

but now i'm down to, well, to none. not even morrisson's action comics, and i'm a card-carrying g-moz fanboy.

I'm reasonably certain the coming issues will continue the problems I (and presumably you) have had with the series thus far, but the most recent issue, #9, might be one to return to (assuming you haven't already read it).

i kind of love graham's prophet, esp w dalrymple on board.

YES. Looking forward to the upcoming Graham w/a issue.

always up for more orc stain, when and if it comes out.

May be a while considering GODZILLA...

wonder if we'll ever see a second volume of x'ed out.

I'm pretty sure it is - saw something the other day, the second cover, I think.

Here's a link for the Burns x'ed out sequel!

feel like i'm alone in way preferring 'fun home' to 'dykes to watch out for,' which really only got really good in the last couple of years -- i read the collected (tho not 'complete,' frustratingly) DTWOF last year and bechdel's sudden maturity as an artist, after like 200+ pages of kinda-engaging soap opera stuff with iffy drawing, was kinda breathtaking.

neither is comparable to 'maus,' tho, which is all-time top 5 material IMO.

kinda agree, felt like a huge leap from DTWOF to Fun Home, but it could seem that way because we read Fun Home first

read dykes first, fun home is way better overall

lacks dykes' charm and easy/immediate/offhand appeal tho

feel like i'm alone in way preferring 'fun home' to 'dykes to watch out for,' which really only got really good in the last couple of years

Me too! I actually gave up on Dykes before it got good. Wading through the early, iffy stuff got too boring. But then that's also why I've never really got to grips with the Hernandezes either, so feel free to shoot me.

xaime's been completely solid and on top of his art and storytelling for a loooong time, don't get the comparison

gilbert comes and goes

yeah, wld say that jamie was p much great right frm the start (especially drawing-wise), gilbert started heartbreak soup in issue 3? of L&R? cerebus might be a better comparison?

i get impatient with the early L&R stuff but art-wise it's always been really strong -- definitely way ahead of early bechdel, which is just really incompetent cartooning.

honestly, i think JH is one of the finest american long-form comix artists & writers ever, period, with very little competition

Don't know if we have a Rolling General Comics Industry News thread, but Filipino artist Tony DeZuniga has died.

http://www.newsfromme.com/2012/05/10/tony-dezuniga-r-i-p/

reading Batman Inc. pretty fun.

aw, i liked dezuniga

No judgment on these particular designs, but another point for the "comics collections should have good graphic design" pile: http://blog.newsarama.com/2012/05/22/why-cant-more-comics-look-like-this/

I do wish more series had solid spine designs.

Read Joe the Barbarian. Artwork was phenomenal. I don't think I quite understood what Morrison was going for in this story, beyond the kind of stuff he's did in Flex Mentallo, Final Crisis, Batman RIP, etc.

Yeah - its... too ambitious? It hints at duelling realities, but just meanders about. It's a nifty six issue series that doesn't need the bloat.

Eh? I didn't notice anything ambitious about it, if anything the it felt there was too little ambition. The division between the real and fantasy world was straightforward right from the beginning, and (unlike in Flex Mentallo), there were no further twists or ambiguities that would've made it more interesting. Plus the ending (the way Joe manages to save the house) was a deus-ex-machina ass pull, nothing in the story even hinted at that direction.

it was kinda set up early that he would be rewarded by hearing his father somehow by saving the world, so it kinda made sense - the deeds being in the "tomb of the iron knight"/basement