2012 what are you reading thread

Why did nobody tell me that the Kirby Black Panther of the 70s started with a story called "King Solomon's Frog"? I'll be reading this run ASAP.

man I am dying to get around to Kirby's Black Panther and 70s Cap America runs

the thomas-buscema-palmer- adams avengers are all-time great superhero comics, and superior to the englehart issues, imho (better artwork, for a start - too many of the englehart issues are drawn by bob brown, ugh). personally, i prefer the more 'mundane' storylines, like the introduction of the vision or the first yellowjacket, to the cosmic shit that roy got into later in the run, but there's very little of his overwriting or continuity-obesessing here, just really solid, colourful, inventive and involving marvel comics - don't sleep on em!

i mean, what other superhero comic in 1968 had stuff like this?

http://www.littlestuffedbull.com/images/comics/locs/avengerspoetry/avengers57.jpg

profound, too

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/Avengers(1000)_058_20_001.jpg

seems like a manufacturing fault

Worth reading the Busiek-penned Avengers relaunch? I'm not a big fan of his but they have that whole series.

It's worth a read, yes. Busiek is never mind-blowing, but he's always solid, and he obviously loves The Avengers and their history; references to various Avengers stories published throughout the decades keep popping up, though you don't need to be familiar with those stories in order to get these ones. Busiek's writing is decidedly old school (was this the last time third person narration was used extensively in a major Marvel comic?), but if you like that kind of stuff, it's very entertaining. I'd say the biggest flaw in Busiek's run was his attempt to incorporate racial politics and an affirmative action plot to The Avengers; I respect him for trying to do that, but it just doesn't mix well with cosmic shenanigans his run is mostly about.

i'm sure i've said something like this before on ilc, but i STILL can't buy into the kult of barks (tho' i'm looking forward to the fanta editions, to help change my mind) - like, at their v v best his duck comics strike me, the ones i've read, as entertaining morality cum adventure stories w an increasingly pessimistic/reactionary/misanthropic etc p.o.v - nicely crafted and allbut, visually, entirely faithful, and totally derived from, a global brand, all soft lines and no rough edges

i have to object to the idea that barks's comics are 'totally derived from' the disney brand -- the style and tone of barks's comics are NOTHING like any disney cartoon, donald duck himself is a completely different character (it's impossible to read one of those comics and imagine donald speaking in that voice he has in the cartoons -- at least, i can't), and barks invented most of the characters other than donald so he was the originator of the 'brand' if anyone was. (and it seems unfair to complain that he has 'no rough edges' after complaining about his pessimistic misanthropy!)

but if it doesn't hit ya, it doesn't hit ya. i used to have a hard time explaining to ppl why i liked 'peanuts' before the fanta reprints started coming out...

people who don't "get" Peanuts are dead to me

Aw, I kinda like that Bob Brown/Frank Chiaramonte art during the Englehart run.

J.D., the "visually" in that para of mine you quote above emphasises, i hope, that i was talking about barks' actual comic strip drawing, rather than his writing - ie i don't think the way that he drew donald departed from the house style model sheets (nor would you expect him to, tho' again to me this points to the limitations of disney corporate comics as opposed to marvel or dc corporate comics, where there's a greater degree of freedom of interpretation - ie curt swan superman doesn't look identical to wayne boring superman, ditko spiderman looks v different to romita spiderman, and so on. i think most 'general' readers would be hard pressed to distinguish, from pictures alone, a page of donald drawn by barks from a contemporaneous page not drawn by barks.) ditto w/ the 'rough edges' comment, tho' i agree that the complaint is prob contradictory and poss unfair.

WmC, while i admire and even share yr enthusiasm for reliable old marvel pros like geo tuska and sal buscema, i think brown is WAY below their standard - he seems totally unengaged by the material, indifferent to the characters and oblivious to engelhart's cosmic ambition. and i know it's kinda harsh to compare brown, always a second-stringer even prior to his stint on the avengers, w/ john buscema, poss the finest draughtsman marvel ever had, at the v height of his powers, inked by the great george klein or tom palmer, but the difference is like night and day imho

Guys, Kirby's 70s Black Panther is batshit amazing. On issue 5, and it's somewhere between Mister Miracle and joe Casey's Gødland. Nutso and with no context whatsoever. No backstory, no reasoning, just thrill after thrill after thrill. Loving it.

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and those busiek avengers are ok, but they TOTALLY channel roy thomas!

I needed an Avengers break after 40 issues of suck.

I think one downside of Kirby's work is the cookie-cutter interchangeability of some of it. I suspect he had notes and sketches left over from Mister Miracle that he just turned into Black Panther stories, complete with dwarf sidekick.

I'm sure it's true, based on what I'm reading. However, the juxtaposition of Black Panther in these kind of stories is wonderful. He keeps saying, "I'm a King! I behave in specific ways!" Great straight man for utter madness.

those black panthers were excoriated by fans at the time of their release, partly because they followed a much-loved run on black panther by don mcGregor that was sort've the apex of 70s 'relevant' marveldom - complicated, flowery, politically and socially engaged, sophsticated in a way that kirby never was, for good and bad. kirby, of course, paid absolutely no attention to the mcgregor comics, or any other form of continuity, in favour of his own (as WmC suggests) 'pre-fabricated' universe.

EZ, I've never been able to read GODLAND as every time I looked at, I just got angrier and angrier. Does it actually do anything other than riff off Kirby?

Thirded on those Kirby BLACK PANTHER books. They're just great (and not everything The King did for Marvel in the 70s was. Theres some post-MADBOMB issues of CAP that I just can't read). Pretty sure I read somewhere (maybe here) that he was using the PANTHER books to comment on his return to Marvel and working for new masters.

I'm also pretty sure it was around this time that he got his nickname "Jack the Hack" from his time at Marvel, which I remember comic shop owners and readers using openly when I was reading comics for the first time in 81-85.

Currently reading BULLETPROOF COFFIN (v.2) and quite enamored of it.

i don't think the way that he drew donald departed from the house style model sheets

i think most 'general' readers would be hard pressed to distinguish, from pictures alone, a page of donald drawn by barks from a contemporaneous page not drawn by barks.

i think most 'general' readers would be hard pressed to distinguish, from pictures alone, a page of donald drawn by barks from a contemporaneous page not drawn by barks.

wow, really can't disagree enough here.

Yeah. Ward, I'm not sure if you know this, but back in the day Disney comic artists were anonymous (the only credit the comics had was a signature of Walt Disney), and the only reason Barks become famous in the first place was because readers started to recognize his work regardless of the anonymity, which lead to some fans tracking down the "good Duck artist".

ward, past conversations on here suggest that you're really super astute as regards comix but I'm wondering how much disney reading you do? Like are you into rosa or murray or gottfredson or jippes or any of the top tier guys?

EZ, I've never been able to read GODLAND as every time I looked at, I just got angrier and angrier. Does it actually do anything other than riff off Kirby?

GODLAND starts with Kirby, obviously, and the art doesn't really push past Kirby cosmic (though Scioli does discover his own bent on it as the series progressed); however, Casey is doing some sort of weird metaphysical Hunter Thompson thing with the scripting and stories that consistently has me doing double takes, laughing out loud, and re-reading pages in a desperate attempt to figure out what the hell is going on. Easily my favorite comic of the recent past.

But I completely understand if you can't get past the Kirby pastiche & homage part of the enterprise. It's pivotal to the whole thing but it's put off a bunch of people I know and respect.

Don't look at Godland as a Kirby ripoff, it's turning what Kirby does into it's own genre. That said, it's also about the big cosmic kind of comics that Steranko and later Jim Starlin did.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-TQfeVLnZ9do/Tu_FXOEiJnI/AAAAAAAALxc/4X0FsaxvhrQ/s1600/INT_Godland_2.jpeg

If anything, I think the big two need to channel MORE Kirby and get rid of all of this sad sack aping TV scripting B.S.

that art makes it look like a pretty faithful rip tbf

I wouldn't say it is more druggy read, as Jack's stuff is plenty trippy, but Godland is more than just a homage.

Either way, it's not like the King is making new comics.

I'd figure fans of Morrison's more trippy super hero stuff would like Godland, as it is in the same vein (although with an artist that is definitely channeling the King).

Scoli is at least as good if not better than Howard Porter.

Then again, I am a big Joe Casey fan. That guy is way better than most of these dolts doing super hero comics and for some reason never caught on as a popular writer at the big two.

I'm starting into Christopher Priest's take on Black Panther and She-Hulk by Dan Slott. Those are some fun comics at least so far. I read the first 12 issue run by Slott on She-Hulk and it is great, one of the most enjoyable super hero runs I have read in a while.

Certainly in total agreement as to channeling more of the crazy creativity of The King, but not his style necessarily (not that you were.) I just wish both the writing and the art hadn't hammered on that point repeatedly in the first arc that I read. Perhaps I'll give it another try, but I may just be predisposed to be irritated by Mr. Scioli's art (his AMERICAN BARBARIAN makes me want to tear my hair out -- THUNDARR wasn't The King's finest moment, yet even that is being mined.)

aww the post-madbomb issues of captain america featuring THE SWINE are amongst my all-time favourite kirby komiks - this sequence, where the swine overfeeds a starving prisoner, has stuck in my mind for thirty years (nice giacoia inking, too)!

http://kirbymuseum.org/blogs/dynamics/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Captain_America206-05.jpg

^sorry if that's huge!

oh and thank you tuomas, but yes i did know about the anonymity of disney cartoonists and barks' reputation as 'the good duck artist' - but, as you say, that was a title bestowed by a small group of american comic book fans (some of whom, like mike barrier, were also experts on animation) who, I would argue, were eager to construct (or, more charitably, 'discover') a heroic individualist auteur working deep within the the disney machine.

forks, i have to confess that american funny animal comics are not my 'specialist subject' but i've nothing against them, especially - just give me King Leonardo and his Short Subjects over Donald bloody Duck any day!

someone explain to me why I keep expecting Ulitmate X-Men to get better

I mean, the most recent issue was actually kind of interesting but not interesting enough to justify the three issues before it

In other news, X-Factor remains awesome

Ward, some of this is likely narcissism of childhood preferences but I will ride or die for Barks 4eva

forks did you ever get those issues of Fukitor...?

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as on old british left-winger, i'm certain that some of my anti-barks antipathy stems from a reading, many years ago, of dorfman and matellart's how to read donald duck, which is a crude but stirring dismantling of a certain kind of cultural imperialism - still worth a read, imho

Everybody has an uncle or nephew, everybody is a cousin of someone, but nobody has fathers or sons. The only mother shown on regular basis is Beagle Boys's mother, who lives outside the law and who almost never shows affection to her offspring. This non-parental reality creates horizontal levels in society, where there is no hierarchic order, except the one given by the amount of money and wealth possessed by each, and where there is almost no solidarity among those of the same level, creating a situation where the only thing left is crude competition.

this is totally true but at the same time kind of admirable for its ingenuity and subtlety

i've read some anti-disney/donald/barks stuff along those same lines but it's worth noting that by the time you and I got on the scene, Donald was already a discarded icon and barks had negotiated special dispensation to make and sell fine art renditions of the ducks without paying the beast. They were indisputably and forever HIS CHARACTERS (check the taliaferro comparison) and if disney ate off his back it wasn't any more so than Marvel did to Kirby
but point me at yr specific article and i'll give it a go.
there are other mother characters in the donaldverse btw: daisy, grandma, glittering goldie, etc. but there's something to be said for the "it takes a village" young boys adventure story world that Barks created where, by and large, the pecking order between donald and his prepubescent nephews is roughly equal and where dewey is often wiser and more on top of things than scrooge

and yes i DID get those issues of FUKITOR and they were fucking AWESOME
though the print/paper quality was a tetch squalid. Stories and art were top notch s.clay wilson steez
i should and will buy the rest of the issues and i recommend giving it a shot yourself if you dig that kinda WAY over the top thing

btw, i just finished the first two books of joe daly's dungeon quest and they are really really great, can't wait to rip into his other work. he's a real find!

When I discovered fandom in 1976, prices for Barks duck oils were in the low four figures, iirc. I don't remember what prints went for, but it had to be peanuts. If I ever get hold of a time machine, I'm going to make my zillions on comic books, original comic art and Apple stock.

barks' oils = what if thomas kincaide painted ducks

forks, this is the bk i was talking abt, still in print:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3199/3119096290_a9d0dab171_z.jpg?zz=1

damn, did not know that his original oil paintings were selling in the six figure range
i'm not gonna stan for his "fine art renditions" they're nice enough but more collector bait
they kept him in coin though so i'm all in favor
i'm a fan of rosa's (i think right) interp of the scrooge story: that every coin matters as a concrete reminder of his history/legacy, not as genuine filthy lucre

haven't read that book but if we're talking about thoughtless imperialism herge is about a billion times worse an offender than barks -- 'tintin au congo' is easily the most nauseating comic i've ever read.

also worth noting that barks worked for western publishing, not 'disney,' and received zero feedback or attention from the disney studio in 20+ years of drawing his comics.

Lucky for him in the long run.

interesting memoir by the dude who translated that book into english: http://nafsk.se/pipermail/dcml/1995-June/004368.html

Did anyone read a 1995 Paradox series called Family Man by Jerome Charyn & Joe Staton? Longshot, I know.

sorry. That was my comic dark age when I was far too poor to buy any comics.

i read family man when it came out, can't really remember a damm thing abt it, other than it was far less satisfying than the two graphic novels that charyn created with francois boucq (simply a much finer artist than joe 'functional' staton.) the magician's wife in particular is superb.

I know it has some fans on comic sites but I do not remember if anyone's discussed the Prophet "relaunch" of the last few months.
http://www.comicsalliance.com/2012/03/19/prophet-23-preview-brandon-graham-simon-roy-richard-ballerman/

It's been pretty good so far. I may have... more thoughts when I'm not in an 83 degree room.

completely missed it. Never read any Prophet whatsoever.

That's a plus! It's a "continuation" in the loosest, loosest use of the word. It's a whole new comic where the first issue is #21 and the character has the same name as an Image character from the 90s.