stet/keith question or whoever is in charge of code these days

Ha, this is brilliant, and 2 hours ago would've saved me the trouble of looking up how to do Page Up/Home on a MacBook Pro (not before I accidentally managed to shut it down by pressing some combo of Apple key and what looked like it might be a Page Up button).

Thanks!

I don't like it, personally. But I do *tend* to read the last post before clicking the button, so I guess I can live with it if I have to. I usually click to SNA rather than other bookmarks.

so i guess you're saving me some clicks, i just need to re-train myself

― ⚓ (gr8080), dinsdag 31 januari 2012 23:04 (26 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This goes for me too, my fingers on my laptop - both hands - are still going to shift(left) + pgUp/Home (right). I *want* to get used to this.

Ahh the simple joys in life... Stet <3

I should point out that I don't care either way – my post was an explanation of what I do, not a complaint about the change.

yeah i think i'll like this as soon as i get used to it

enjoy the idea of stet pouring over the ilx logs for user behavior insights

how the hell did following this link from the Flag Post thread change my style sheet???

it logged you out, maybe?

its kinda jarring, tbqh a radical approach, i salute yr courage

sleeve are you logged into ilxor.com or www.ilxor.com?

"Flag Post"? Wait I only just noticed this.

FPing someone for that.

I hate this change :'( Can we maybe have the choice to use it or not?

yeah not feeling it.

another thing: if i bookmark something and then select that same bookmark once it jumps to the top of the page (like say i walked away from my computer for a while), it will take me to the OLD bookmark from that page

mostly i just dont like jumping back to the top of the page in general

really enjoying this now tbh

we should all should give it a few days imho

it is p unusual and appy tho, just my pro opinion

it's not so bad that i'd quit ilx over it (i'd probably chew the tips off my fingers before i quit ilx) but i do find it deeply unpleasant and would prefer the option to turn it off

i really like the way bookmarking works now tbh

ditto

The new bookmarking thing works for me. Didn't even know I wanted it.

agree with mordy

Im kinda amazed how many ppl use bookmarks this religiously. Ive nevre even given them a thought.

i get so bogged down with my unread bookmarks i rarely look at SNA :(

I tend to rely on my browser's turning a viste3d link pink/the "new posts" unfilled dot. So when the site gets rebooted and they all clear, Im completely lost haha.

i get so bogged down with my unread bookmarks i rarely look at SNA :(

One of a few reasons why I changed my name!

There was a while where pplains wasn't on 77 yet, and I'd log in as Pleasant Plains to check in. Fuck, those bookmarks stacked up fast.

Check out the blue cursor on the side to give you an idea of how far up it goes.

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/392/screenshot20120201at820.png

poll

yah after some p intense experiences w/stacked up bookmarks im careful abt unfollowing threads im not actively reading, only have 5 outstanding now

need to go back and bookmark "an erotic thriller" again tho'.

i have to clear bookmarks compulsively tbh

dont need to bookmark it... im living it

sux for you... most intercourse involves penetration you know.

i was lazy, but there really should have been a comma before those last two words.

hah

Im kinda amazed how many ppl use bookmarks this religiously. Ive nevre even given them a thought.

I could not use ilx without bookmarks, seriously

I used to be one of you, then I found help

use bookmarks y'all

the bookmarkers gag has already been done rite

argh even as I am reading about it, I'm automatically clicking 'bookmark' and it is annoying me!

this is still totally frustrating

you'll love it eventually!!!

ok, it's pissing me off too. back it goes. maybe into preferences ville

Nooooooooooo Stet! ;_;

haha

i liked it!

Why u brake haert Stet, u tease

LBI, preferences ville means YOU WILL BE ABLE TO KEEP IT THE NEW WAY, ffs

but we want everyone to HAVE to use it

think of the hive wont you

^^ exactly lol

xp

In theory it makes it easier to hire people and quicker to get them up to speed if you're using a framework that's common, they can get straight in to learning the app specific code instead of the unique & fun way you've devised to wire in environment variables or whatever. Obviously not a concern for personal projects & labours of love! But I work on a large 20+ year old application, the old founder and lead developer hated frameworks - MVCs, ORMs, front ends, etc - and that really is coming back to bite us now.

The theory is sound—essentially, "you already know how to do some of it", but in your case, which I think is more typical, would it have been an improvement if it were written in Wicket, Cocoon, Apache Turbine, JSF or Tapestry? ORM is something kind of different—and even worse!

My point is that your 20+ year old codebase would've used a framework from 20+ years ago, and the likelihood of your new hires knowing that is close to zero (probably actually zero), so you'd be no better off.

react is over a decade old... idk, part of my thinking is that using a framework might have constrained things in a way that made the application easier to understand and easier to refactor but that could be "grass is always greener" wishful thinking.

You’re getting CLOD to do it!

with close supervision from two devs experienced with the codebase!

also before clod came along we wasted two years and god knows how much cash with a ceo who was convinced that the codebase was irredeemable and started a project to rewrite from scratch, using expensive contractors! but for various reasons that was abandoned and he's been pushed out, hooray.

cto not ceo.

Yes, the massive rewrite. I've seen a few of those. I did succeed in getting one done, but that was done by changing it bit by bit until it was no longer the old one, rather than the start from scratch approach, which I've never seen work.

React has been going for longer than most frameworks, but obviously in that timeframe you've had Angular (1!), Vue, Next etc. Maybe React will be the one framework that breaks the pattern that all other frameworks have followed and is viewed really positively in twenty years' time.

start from scratch approach, which I've never seen work

Haha, oh yeah, I forgot about that!

What I'm hearing here is that we're in the hands of a religious lunatic (complimentary)

Hey Dan, I thought you might like to know it's written in ML!

― Keith, Thursday, June 11, 2026 8:40 AM (three days ago) bookmarkflaglink

thats awesome that youre doing it in the unfashionable lang of your choice, as it should be

Maybe React will be the one framework that breaks the pattern that all other frameworks have followed and is viewed really positively in twenty years' time.

― Keith, Friday, June 12, 2026 6:07 AM (two days ago) bookmarkflaglink

no reason to use react anyway ilx isnt interactive like that

Thanks, it's been very interesting. Not least because at the beginning (when it was really just an experiment) I thought I'd run into all the brick walls that you usually do when you go off the beaten track, but the interesting thing is that it didn't happen. If you missed it, it's largely F#, so it's not like it's Standard ML—F# being a descendent of Standard ML via Ocaml. Doing it in Standard ML would have been somewhat crazy as (I assume) you'd have very limited libraries etc. With F# being a .NET language, you get the whole framework and e.g. the Kestrel runtime and I ran in to pretty much no roadblocks, so I just kept on doing it, and now I would struggle to imagine doing it any other way, because it's much better.

I actually started out writing a book on this subject, to try and write something engaging and motivational and avoided the details of e.g. lambda calculus, category theory etc. which most writing seems to dive straight into—stuff that's likely to put off 99% of readers. However, I decided some time back that if I'm going to do that, I had better have some experience of writing a significant application in this way, so it all got sidetracked into doing this.

So yeah I don't want to be having a go at React primarily because the thing that it was initially trying to solve is something that came straight out of ML in the 1970s, i.e. immutability and that the UI is a function of the state, so I think it at least has a real tangible reason for its existence, beyond just reframing existing APIs as many 'frameworks' do. Ironically, given that, I'm not using it, despite there being a lot of interactivity, but the reason for that is because I think to do a nice UI, the UI being a direct function of state is too simplistic... In reality, you want to transition from state A to state B, and I believe React has some bolt-ons in that space, but I'm just not willing to learn the mountains of stuff that it would involve when I know I could do it anyway. Stuff like Elm (another ML) has also explored this area, I believe, which would be much more in line with what I've done.

With F# being a .NET language, you get the whole framework and e.g. the Kestrel runtime and I ran in to pretty much no roadblocks, so I just kept on doing it, and now I would struggle to imagine doing it any other way, because it's much better.

thats cool idk anything about .net and so forth but it does sound like everything kinda just worked out which obvs isnt how things usually go lol

Well it worked out programming-wise at least, and yeah that's usually a lot harder if you're off the mainstream! I'm sure lots of people will still think it's shit 🤪.

don't know what happened there but for 10 mins or so the site was available but frozen

same

Saw that here too.

proxy Cloudflare timeout fule

Is there something weird on the "Would you join The Fall?" thread? It's giving me this:

https://i.ibb.co/rGh3skvZ/2026-07-03-21-16-12.png

so you're suggesting that Mark E. Smith wants access

whoa weird

it looks normal to me fwiw

wtf is that?? Can you hit “learn more”? And what browser is that?

It's Firefox, and "learn more" takes me to this page: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/control-personal-device-local-network-permissions-firefox

The browser console says "Cross-Origin Request Blocked: The Same Origin Policy disallows reading the remote resource at data:text/plain;base64,Cg==. (Reason: CORS request not http)."

I've never seen it before.

Can you try disabling your extensions and see if it still happens, please?

Yes, it still happens.

Thank you. I can't see anything odd in Firefox, and there's nothing odd inside the page itself... An http link to something from Amazon... Maybe that would cause an issue through HTTPS, but it's not a cross origin request, just a link. Hate to ask you to do loads of things, but can you try it in another browser? This dialog is new in Firefox, but having run it in Firefox 152.0.4, which seems to be the latest, I don't see anything. Bit strange. I thought it'd probably be an extension running some localhost request or something, but it seems not.

I wouldn't worry about it, there's nothing like scripts executing on the page.

Nothing in any other browser. I won't worry!