Karl Ove Knausgård - Min kamp

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Wonder if that Amazon review was written by John Gardner.

The "5" Astronomer Royales (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 30 September 2014 10:38 (nine years ago) link

Wait, that is a positive review, doesn't say "heartless" but "ruthless."

The "5" Astronomer Royales (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 30 September 2014 10:40 (nine years ago) link

I was looking @ Marjorie's review, scroll down.

Slightly regret linking it alongside Knausgaard, but as a flipside, guessing she is into boring 'literary' clap trap.

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 30 September 2014 10:46 (nine years ago) link

Hm. I only see the one review here in the US.

The "5" Astronomer Royales (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 30 September 2014 10:50 (nine years ago) link

"Perfect unhappiness"

The "5" Astronomer Royales (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 30 September 2014 10:51 (nine years ago) link

Reading Peter Handke's newly reprinted memoir of his mother's suicide, I was more arrested by the author's steely, emotionless tone than I was by the horrific circumstances of his mother's death by poisoning. I was expecting a poetic, elegiac recollection of Handke's mother, perhaps a tribute to her maternity, her authenticity or whatever in the ultimate sense makes a woman memorable. We are taught to believe that a mother's love is all important, the essence of the relationship between mother and son a unique experience, inspiring, as it should, all sorts of choices in the man as he grows older as well as an assortment of leanings - toward religion, for instance, or learning or perhaps the arts. We think of mothers as exemplifying the Jungian concept of the "anima" in the man - that elusive image of the perfect woman which the maturing male formulates from his experience with his mother and seeks out in other females as part of his search for the woman he once knew intimately and still recalls with idealistic yearnings.

Having read and thoroughly enjoyed Jeffrey Euginides' "The Virgin Suicides" about a family of gifted, beautiful female siblings who ultimately killed themselves, I should have been wary of this book, knowing it was Euginides whose efforts revitalized it; and indeed as I read the memoir I realized that the theme of Handke's book is similar to Euginides' in that both authors depict the fifties as a time of moral, spiritual and emotional suppression of women. Handke's account of his mother's death is simply one more reminder of how oppressive the fifties really were to the souls of all women, not just gorgeous, gifted teenagers, as Euginides' masterpiece portrays some of the era's hapless victims. That this death occurred in Austria makes plain that the post-War era was destructive to women all over the world - reflective of a global malaise, not just an American aberration, as one might conclude after reading Euginides' book.

For me, Handke's book suggests that the old ways of keeping women in their place were indeed widespread and every bit as destructive as some of us guessed when we were young and told to remain in our place - silent and pleasing to men. Alas, we were not permitted to be "unpleasant." Had we been allowed to be candid, perhaps we would have grown up less angry, less depressed and more confident. Yet it was not in the cards. Women were at the mercy of their unforgiving fertile bodies and thus dependent upon men for their rights as human beings. If a woman was lucky, she married the exception: a man who allowed her full emotional expression without consequences or caveats. Alas, few women were so fortunate, and the result was an epidemic of nervous breakdowns, alcoholism and valium dependency, screwed up children and workaholic and philandering men - none of these desirable rewards for a generation of women suddenly freed from the laborious demands of domesticity to express themselves in ways unheard of before. Yet deprived of meaningful professional opportunity and intimidated by men's expectations, many women retreated into their own guarded, depressed and ultimately psychotic worlds, thereby emotionally abandoning their children, their homes and their clueless husbands.

For Handke's mother the fifties were the apotheosis of personal subjugation. Compute the psychological effects of her Holocaust experience, and one recognizes that her life symbolized the marginalized position of most women of her time. She bore a child out of wedlock, she exuded a manic, hyper-energized, optimistic personality that was out of sync with the ruthlessly serious social atmosphere of the times. The father of her child was a Nazi; she subsequently married a man she didn't love for the purpose of security and mothered other children, confined, as she was, to a decrepit house with the stench of poverty and despair. Her periodic bouts with depression and female disease further defined her as unconventional during a period of gross conventionality.

As Handke points out, "For a woman to be born into such surroundings was in itself deadly." The surroundings the author describes are those of extreme penury, exemplified by his mother's father having lost his entire savings more than once due to the inflation of the times. "Staying home was a woman's place," Handke reminds the reader. Outside the home environment and the broader world as a whole were the province of the male while the woman was confined to the house and the drudgery implicit in motherhood and domesticity. Because there were no suitable options, his mother flees her family home as a young woman and becomes involved with a married German Army official; because of her illegitimate status of an unwed mother, she eventually marries a sergeant, "hoping he will die in the War," only to find him repulsive later when he returns to her. Thus, she experiences the penalties of being female as well as the female codified stages of the times: "Tired/Exhausted/Sick/Dying/Dead." Oppressed by the limits of her existence, she describes the resulting claustrophobia. The rain comes to symbolize her depression at the lack of novelty in her life. When she fled her hopeless destiny as a young woman, it is understandable that she would see in the Nazi years a release from the humdrum of female existence. Instead of the mundane lack of novelty in her family life then, she experiences in the heady days of World War 11 a sense of promise and deliverance from monotony. After all, she was still young, and at that point she possessed hope in the future.

Handke emphasizes that in those days "a girl's future was a joke," but the times offered hope and so Handke's mother strove to believe in the future. The woman remained indefatigable in her optimism, her manic search for variety and a future beyond the dismal consolations of her times. As "Sorrow" notes, "Women were not supposed to have a life of their own, and so his mother is emotionally "starved" as fifties women were, as the adolescent protagonists of Euginides' "Virgin Suicides" indeed were. In her misery Handke's mother aborts herself and subsequently becomes sexless. She had a "miserable life," Handke affirms. "She became nothing." His unspoken sorrow is just that. Even such a positive woman would in the end submit to the tyranny of the times.

Nor was she the only family member who suffered during those hard years. Her husband endured TB; her son had paralyzing headaches as he detached himself emotionally from his mother in order to survive. In those days, people didn't consider the possibility of mental illness in a peculiarly acting female. A woman wasn't allowed to be spontaneous in her behavior. Rigid social norms controlled her every move. Although his mother believed in happiness and earnestly sought it, Handke points out "happiness was not for her." She took to smoking because it was frivolous and wasn't condoned by the rigid moral code. She forged on, giving for Christmas presents only the barest of necessities because that was all the family could afford. She ate the last scrap of food left after a meal, delicately, as if that was enough to sustain her. In every way, she sacrificed her own needs to the demands of a tyrannical social order until she could do it no more. Her husband spent money on drink and a girlfriend, but such options were not hers. Instead she drank coffee at the local pub and endured his beatings. In all her efforts, she kept up appearances. She "adopted the penance of a united family," ignoring her red, chafed hands, her hunger, her physical pain. She cried quietly and in private until she discovered the outlet of reading which came to define her and legitimized her as well. She became a socialist. In the end, she had repressed her feelings so long that she had nothing to say. She had been silenced.

When at last debilitating headaches kept her captive to a dark room, she claimed "I'm not human anymore." Reduced to an automaton, she acknowledges "the idiocy of her life." Every sight becomes a torment; she loses all sense of time and place. At the last she can't even talk. "I can't talk; don't torture me," she tells her son. Handke observes, "Mere existence had become a torture to her."

The crushing defeat of not being able to express oneself fully and honestly is the worst experience of all. It denies a woman her very identity and the cathartic release of emotion. That her joyful, unbridled, naïve enthusiasm should be derided and quelled was the biggest injustice of all, for what it did was to devalue exuberance and optimism, the very coping mechanisms one needs to endure suffering, thereby forcing her into premature dementia. To be quelled in one's self-expression is to be marginalized, to be vulnerable, alas to be female in those unforgiving times. Seeing the Jews herded into lorries must have seemed analogous to the victim-hood she realized she would eventually endure. As Handke notes, the gymnasium was the last meaningful experience of females before they were mired in domestic rituals that were stultifying and dehumanizing.

It is obvious why Euginides championed this book; it has many thematic similarities to his own. However, Handke's prose is not melodic; his approach is not fluid, but disjointed. His objective and seemingly heartless discussion of his mother begs the question as to why he wrote the book. Perhaps he felt expunged of guilt for her death by addressing his mother's pathetic situation, her marginalized, psychotic existence. Perhaps he felt the need to justify his own detachment in the face of her suffering by chronicling the dispassionate nature of the times. Whatever his purpose, the book is not on the same level as Euginides' novel and as such reveals more about the author and the times than it does about the woman herself. The son's feelings for his mother lacked a true appreciation of her dilemma as well as a corresponding compassion for the downtrodden under whatever guise. Understated? Yes, but compassionate? I don't think so.

Marjorie Meyerle
Colorado Writer
Author of "Bread of Shame"

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 30 September 2014 10:51 (nine years ago) link

Whoa.

This is basically a variant of this

The "5" Astronomer Royales (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 30 September 2014 11:00 (nine years ago) link

In any case, Handke is trying to understand something, to find a way to approach understanding and write about it, he is not trying to "be understanding" and come away with a teachable moment talk show best seller.

The "5" Astronomer Royales (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 30 September 2014 11:25 (nine years ago) link

yeah talk about missing the point

licorice oratorio (baaderonixx), Tuesday, 30 September 2014 12:17 (nine years ago) link

hmmm, jumping aroudn Handke reviews on Goodreads has made me wanna check him out again. My fave, "The Left Handed Woman", also seems an influence on "Min Kamp"

licorice oratorio (baaderonixx), Tuesday, 30 September 2014 12:37 (nine years ago) link

Big row in Norway in the aftermath of that Ibsen award, Knausgård heavily involved in a pretty hostile debate over the debate over Handke winning and his supposed politics.

abcfsk, Tuesday, 30 September 2014 13:05 (nine years ago) link

Wiki sez:

In 2014, the prize was awarded to the controversial playwright and historical revisionist Peter Handke, who is noted for denying the Srebrenica genocide and for his support of Slobodan Milošević.[2] The award led to calls for the jury to resign.[3] A large number of people protested against him as he arrived to receive the prize, shouting "fascist, fascist" repeatedly and calling him a "genocide denier."[4] The award was condemned by PEN Norway.[5] Bernt Hagtvet, an expert on totalitarianism, called the award an "unprecedented scandal," stating that "awarding Handke the Ibsen Prize is comparable to awarding the Immanuel Kant Prize to Goebbels."[5]

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 30 September 2014 13:08 (nine years ago) link

I only know bits and pieces about it (having never read the actual articles from Handke) so...yes its a hole to have started from Celan and Holocaust to the comparative silence over Serbia: K deals with it in a couple of paragraphs towards the end..

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 30 September 2014 13:13 (nine years ago) link

yeah it was pretty mortifying seeing Handke dig himself in an increasingly deep hole by going to ever greater length to defend Serbia 15 years ago. He really did lose it.

licorice oratorio (baaderonixx), Tuesday, 30 September 2014 13:36 (nine years ago) link

Steered clear of him once he went that route but in addition to Sorrow I recommend Afternoon of a Writer and especially The Weight of the World.

The "5" Astronomer Royales (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 30 September 2014 13:40 (nine years ago) link

Reviewed by Michael Hofmann! But I can't see it:( http://www.lrb.co.uk/v07/n04/michael-hofmann/winking-at-myself

The "5" Astronomer Royales (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 30 September 2014 13:43 (nine years ago) link

I guess we should start a Handke thread but I'd also recommend Goalie/Penalty, Left-Handed Woman and Short Letter, Long Farewell

licorice oratorio (baaderonixx), Tuesday, 30 September 2014 14:30 (nine years ago) link

one month passes...

After a deliberate wait I am about to start Book Three. In spite of all of the detractors I think what matters to me is the sense of fate or destiny apart from urgency or authenticity because how could you be urgent and authentic about what is so abundant yet never enough? A part of this could be my romanticizing Norway and roles and callings and knowing your neighbors (also acknowledging the seeming foreignness and isolation of the writers' workshop and everlasting seventies, etc -- hey reminds me of the Jacques Tati films made with Scandinavian audiences ... Swedish?).

youn, Friday, 14 November 2014 01:07 (nine years ago) link

3/4 through Part 2. Structurally doesn't seem to work as well at Part 1, much more "this this happened, then this happened." Still great.

less paul (lukas), Friday, 14 November 2014 01:26 (nine years ago) link

reading part three made me realize that i hate this dude

≖_≖ (Lamp), Friday, 14 November 2014 01:59 (nine years ago) link

i felt like i was dying like cell by cell just physically decaying and that every minute i spent reading about his struggle my body was atrophying

≖_≖ (Lamp), Friday, 14 November 2014 02:00 (nine years ago) link

sorry i - it took you three books to figure this out?

less paul (lukas), Friday, 14 November 2014 02:05 (nine years ago) link

yeah idk - i really liked the first one and enjoyed the second but the third i just couldnt take

≖_≖ (Lamp), Friday, 14 November 2014 02:07 (nine years ago) link

my unhappiness with it was the physical thing that felt like death

≖_≖ (Lamp), Friday, 14 November 2014 02:08 (nine years ago) link

he definitely seems less sympathetic - relatable lol - as things go on but ... surely there's no way that i'll end up feeling like you ... i'm totally gonna read that 400-page essay on Hitler

less paul (lukas), Friday, 14 November 2014 02:12 (nine years ago) link

i would not think that part three the would be the one that broke the spell

karl...arlk...rlka...lkar..., Friday, 14 November 2014 09:22 (nine years ago) link

it's just about him being a dumb kid, why'd that seal the deal for you?

karl...arlk...rlka...lkar..., Friday, 14 November 2014 09:23 (nine years ago) link

was not into the second one at all, loved the first

i blow goat farts, aka garts for a living (waterface), Friday, 14 November 2014 14:11 (nine years ago) link

After reading all 3, I thought the third was the weakest. Maybe I just don't enjoy childhood reveries though. Not a lot of drama for an adult to get into except for the tension with his dad.

calstars, Friday, 14 November 2014 15:14 (nine years ago) link

two months pass...

Got volume 2.

markers, Friday, 23 January 2015 20:24 (nine years ago) link

I got Vol. 2 a year ago, but just started reading it last week.

o. nate, Wednesday, 28 January 2015 03:43 (nine years ago) link

one month passes...

i've now read the first three volumes and will have to wait until next month for the fourth to come out in english before continuing. i am reading his novel "a time for everything" now, and i also picked up a copy of the times today, which included a copy of the magazines that featured the first part of this story of his: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/01/magazine/karl-ove-knausgaard-travels-through-america.html

markers, Sunday, 1 March 2015 21:28 (nine years ago) link

i think the next fiction writer i'm going to focus on is tom mccarthy

markers, Sunday, 1 March 2015 21:29 (nine years ago) link

"my struggle" is totally worth reading by the way. i might buy a copy of the first volume for one of my former professors. but i can't recommend "a time for everything" yet, and i'm not sure i will be able to. there are at least one or two paralells to his own life in here though, as least to his life as he tells it in "my struggle"

markers, Sunday, 1 March 2015 21:31 (nine years ago) link

honestly, the nyt piece wasn't the best either. heh. he does cause a toilet to overflow, though

markers, Sunday, 1 March 2015 21:31 (nine years ago) link

did your enthusiasm hold all through the third volume, marks? w me as soon as the past-time sequence opened it just hit me that i'd stopped caring somewhere in the middle of book two

♛ LIL UNIT ♛ (thomp), Sunday, 1 March 2015 22:54 (nine years ago) link

i like to say

'mah struggel'

j., Sunday, 1 March 2015 22:57 (nine years ago) link

I guess I'll have to read this thing eventually.

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 1 March 2015 23:00 (nine years ago) link

thomp: i have a shit memory, so i don't remember exactly how i felt at different points in the book off the top of my head. i don't think we had the same experience though.

markers, Sunday, 1 March 2015 23:23 (nine years ago) link

i do wonder how much my positive view of the books is influenced by positive things i've heard about the books, but i am not forcing myself to enjoy them. i just do

markers, Sunday, 1 March 2015 23:24 (nine years ago) link

reading one of his novels after reading half of "my struggle" is an odd experience though. *SPOILER ALERT* there's some dude who sees angels. at another point, wow, there are cain and abel! and then later on they're gone, and now we're talking about noah!

markers, Sunday, 1 March 2015 23:26 (nine years ago) link

alfred, i've started reading vol. 1 (thought i had posted about that here, maybe i mentioned it in the sheila heti thred). at least that much does seem like it's worth a good look, for writery types. he's onto something.

j., Monday, 2 March 2015 00:16 (nine years ago) link

i can't have a wank, my fathers just died

♛ LIL UNIT ♛ (thomp), Monday, 2 March 2015 00:30 (nine years ago) link

isn't this being translated slower than it was written at this point

♛ LIL UNIT ♛ (thomp), Monday, 2 March 2015 00:31 (nine years ago) link

upthread xyz is complaining about the banality of 'writing without a sense of shame' but in volume one the banality of some of the shameful memories revealed along with the big ones is what makes it interesting, like he's already gone beyond that point of view. vol two seemed sort of a retrograde step in that there were revelations of big dramatic moments instead

also vol one had some intriguing mysteries of ellipsis in re working out what happened in his life and others lives in the time skipped over + what was the whole thing with his dad's name about?

♛ LIL UNIT ♛ (thomp), Monday, 2 March 2015 00:36 (nine years ago) link

One Swede took the extreme critical step of setting fire to the K section of a Malmö bookstore, telling police that he did it because Knausgaard was "the worst author in the world".

♛ LIL UNIT ♛ (thomp), Monday, 2 March 2015 00:48 (nine years ago) link

isn't this being translated slower than it was written at this point

― ♛ LIL UNIT ♛ (thomp), Monday, 2 March 2015 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

We need to allow for 100 companion pieces to appear per vol published. Iron law.

Yet another piece. He has a 'writerly' beard.

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/mar/01/karl-ove-knausgaard-interview-shame-dancing-in-the-dark

The first two volumes were written together and published before he began the third. But such was the pain that the first two inflicted on family and friends that he pulled back in the third, fourth and fifth. In the sixth he returned to full disclosure, cataloguing the breakdown his wife, Linda, suffered during the fall-out over the first two volumes of My Struggle.

Wonder whether this is behind the perceived fall off (Lamp had given up on this around vol. 3)

Look at the pic in his writing studio, you can see a book with the word HITLER in block letters. Bastard.

xyzzzz__, Monday, 2 March 2015 11:25 (nine years ago) link

He met Bostrom at a writer’s conference while he was still married to his first wife, the journalist Tonje Aursland. He made a pass at her, which she rejected, and, in a drunken state of demoralisation, he deliberately cut up his face with broken glass. He later left Aursland and moved to Sweden, but she only learned of the initial episode with Bostrom when she read the second volume, A Man in Love, where it is recorded with characteristically scrupulous candour. Deeply upset, she made a radio documentary in which she confronted Knausgaard.

Hilarious or what? Anyone heard it? Makes you wonder whether everyone is in it and the whole controversy was made up.

xyzzzz__, Monday, 2 March 2015 11:31 (nine years ago) link

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/01/magazine/karl-ove-knausgaard-travels-through-america.html

― markers, Sunday, March 1, 2015 4:28 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

I thought this was cool. I enjoyed when he was confused by hot wings.

Hungry4Ass, Monday, 2 March 2015 20:30 (nine years ago) link

i liked it to. we have the same norwegian fisherman's sweater which is very warm

no (Lamp), Monday, 2 March 2015 20:53 (nine years ago) link


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