Post-colonial literature

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So what's good - read about Pramoedya Ananta Toer's Buru Quartet and Abdul Rahman Munif's Cities of the Salt. The Cairo Trilogy surely belongs.

Another qn: is this a rubbish title to group a bunch of v diverse books together (c.f. 'World Music')

xyzzzz__, Monday, 29 August 2011 12:51 (nine years ago) link

cf 'hipster books'

the pinefox, Monday, 29 August 2011 13:21 (nine years ago) link

lol english departments

game of pwns (Lamp), Monday, 29 August 2011 13:23 (nine years ago) link

I've never been in this 'English Department'. What is it like?

Yes I wanted another 200-post thread now that ILB is the thing again :-D

xyzzzz__, Monday, 29 August 2011 13:39 (nine years ago) link

as someone from a former colony, I don't really hold with post-colonial literature. It's not like we spend our time sitting around going "Oh woe us, we used to be a colony, and now our identity is so confused".

The New Dirty Vicar, Monday, 29 August 2011 15:18 (nine years ago) link

You don't.

But I think some Irish people do, if only for their own entertainment and enhanced self-esteem.

At least, a lot of (non-fictional and no doubt also fictional) writing about Ireland has done this, so someone must have thought those things in order to write them.

the pinefox, Monday, 29 August 2011 16:09 (nine years ago) link

camara laye "the radiance of the king"

mr peabody (moonship journey to baja), Monday, 29 August 2011 16:51 (nine years ago) link

there's a seminar on my course called 'the caribbean afterlives of t.s. eliot'

thomp, Monday, 29 August 2011 17:58 (nine years ago) link

as someone from a former colony, I don't really hold with post-colonial literature. It's not like we spend our time sitting around going "Oh woe us, we used to be a colony, and now our identity is so confused".

Australians don't on the whole, but Australian book review pages certainly think we do!

not bulimic, just a cat (James Morrison), Monday, 29 August 2011 23:25 (nine years ago) link

I have a friend from India who sometimes mentions post-colonial hangover.

bamcquern, Tuesday, 30 August 2011 07:29 (nine years ago) link

At least, a lot of (non-fictional and no doubt also fictional) writing about Ireland has done this, so someone must have thought those things in order to write them.

my suspicion is that this postcolonialism is a conceptual category into which Irish writers are put by non-Irish commentators or by Irish commentators who are shilling for yankee dollar. But what would I know, I only ever read SF and comics by non-Irish writers.

The New Dirty Vicar, Tuesday, 30 August 2011 10:16 (nine years ago) link

is this a rubbish title to group a bunch of v diverse books together

But don't you know? Whenever you say "I don't believe in postcolonial literature," somewhere a postcolonial literary theorist vanishes!

alimosina, Tuesday, 30 August 2011 14:10 (nine years ago) link

yeah, The Radiance of the King was way cool. According to wikipedia there's a dispute as to whether Laye actually wrote it?

JoeStork, Tuesday, 30 August 2011 14:57 (nine years ago) link

There is no doubt that a lot of Irish people have written stuff saying 'we Irish have a confused and complex post-colonial identity'.

Whether their claims were accurate would be another question.

I don't think they have only done it for US audiences, though it's true that some US audiences would be sympathetic to that kind of talk.

the pinefox, Tuesday, 30 August 2011 21:34 (nine years ago) link

One of my writer friends claims that he will never make it bigtime in the US and UK because he never writes about post colonial identity. But then he doesn't write that much anyway, so feh.

The New Dirty Vicar, Wednesday, 31 August 2011 09:57 (nine years ago) link

I wonder though, is "post colonial writing" an umbrella category that will appeal more to people outside the former colony?

The New Dirty Vicar, Wednesday, 31 August 2011 09:58 (nine years ago) link

It just seems an academic approach to me - can be applied to virtually any book from an ex-colony afaict (surprised to see beckett's post-colonial now). Makes it a bit confusing to describe fiction. A bit 'world music', yes, also a bit 'I like deconstructed novels'

(Tho' I suppose 'I like post-modern novels' is a more comprehensible claim. I'd take it to imply the speaker likes certain metafictional games.)

I wonder though, is "post colonial writing" an umbrella category that will appeal more to people outside the former colony?

makes sense, in Ireland in particular I can imagine it giving a modern theoretical gloss to the Irish Culture MAs that pull in the $$$foreign€€€ students.

you don't exist in the database (woof), Wednesday, 31 August 2011 10:59 (nine years ago) link

surprised to see beckett's post-colonial now

!

well, huh

thomp, Wednesday, 31 August 2011 12:04 (nine years ago) link

ffs joyce agglomerates easier to 'post-colonial' than beckett does, & i doubt he's on any such course

thomp, Wednesday, 31 August 2011 12:05 (nine years ago) link

(surprised to see beckett's post-colonial now)

that is completely bananas... Beckett only even counts as an Irish writer by being from here.

The New Dirty Vicar, Wednesday, 31 August 2011 12:15 (nine years ago) link

there's plenty of ireland in the earlier novels, but yeah, it does just seem like desperate researchers going crazy, 'we must cross the Beckett Studies Leviathan with the PoCo Behemoth', 'but it's against nature', 'WE HAVE TO TRY DAMMIT'

you don't exist in the database (woof), Wednesday, 31 August 2011 13:18 (nine years ago) link

It strikes me that you could shoehorn anything into this postcolonialism business. It's like the perfect example of an unfalsifiable hypothesis.

The New Dirty Vicar, Wednesday, 31 August 2011 13:36 (nine years ago) link

i think theres a strong case to term lady gregory and yeats as post-colonial lit. but beckett is a stretch.

Michael B, Wednesday, 31 August 2011 14:20 (nine years ago) link

chinua achebe - things fall apart
jean rhys - wide sargasso sea
buchi emecheta - the joys of motherhood

just1n3, Wednesday, 31 August 2011 15:57 (nine years ago) link

j.m coetzee - foe
hanif kureishi - buddha of suburbia

just1n3, Wednesday, 31 August 2011 15:58 (nine years ago) link

^^^ these were all books i studied for a post-colonial lit course i did a few years ago. foe was probably my favourite, followed by wide sargasso sea.

just1n3, Wednesday, 31 August 2011 16:00 (nine years ago) link

declan kiberd's inventing ireland is quite persuasive in placing irish lit. in the post-colonial bracket looking to edward said etc.

zvookster, Wednesday, 31 August 2011 17:06 (nine years ago) link

'buddha of suburbia' is fantastic

Michael B, Wednesday, 31 August 2011 20:06 (nine years ago) link

Yeah, I loved Buddha od Suburbia and The Black Album so much, I bought and read maybe the next 4 kureishis as they came out, until I realised it was momentum rather than enjoyment that was keeping me going. 'Intimacy' is where it all started to go badly wrong.

not bulimic, just a cat (James Morrison), Wednesday, 31 August 2011 22:59 (nine years ago) link

'WE HAVE TO TRY DAMMIT'

I like the way they've indicated what they think Beckett thinks of the whole enterprise with their cover photo.

Fizzles the Chimp (GamalielRatsey), Thursday, 1 September 2011 08:04 (nine years ago) link

Beckett didn't like most critics.

He did come from a colonial, then postcolonial nation, and some of his early writing explicitly reflects on that place. His later writing, generally less so.

I think it could be said that SB went out of his way to get away from postcolonialism (as a political and social condition, I suppose). But this itself is still a distinctive historical condition or project, worth reflecting on.

Given his upbringing I think he was less of an Irish nationalist, even at some basic default mode, than most other major Irish writers of his time - Joyce, Kavanagh, Myles for instance.

Unlike the author in Fizzles' link, I am not convinced that he had much of significance to tell us about the British Empire.

On the whole I think I would have to share Fizzles' apparent view that that book is straining to make a lot out of a small topic.

Though if it meant Beckett and other, later postcolonial novelists, there might, possibly be more to say. But it doesn't seem to mean that.

I must admit that I have reached a point where I have almost no desire to read any more academic work on Beckett.

the pinefox, Thursday, 1 September 2011 09:45 (nine years ago) link

have you any more desire to read beckett?

thomp, Thursday, 1 September 2011 09:46 (nine years ago) link

also, what does good academic work on beckett look like -? the only thing i consciously remember enjoying is wayne booth's brief discussion of him in an appendix to 'the rhetoric of fiction', which discussion manages to suggest more or less a whole other book

thomp, Thursday, 1 September 2011 09:47 (nine years ago) link

Actually, not much, any more, given the chance, not to.

the pinefox, Thursday, 1 September 2011 09:47 (nine years ago) link

Hugh Kenner.

the pinefox, Thursday, 1 September 2011 09:47 (nine years ago) link

Probably Christopher Ricks, obnoxious though he seemingly is.

the pinefox, Thursday, 1 September 2011 09:48 (nine years ago) link

Given that Beckett is primarily a playwright, people should really be aiming to see his stuff on the stage rather than read it.

The New Dirty Vicar, Thursday, 1 September 2011 09:51 (nine years ago) link

It sounds like you need to read SAMUEL BECKETT AND THE POSTCOLONIAL NOVEL.

the pinefox, Thursday, 1 September 2011 09:54 (nine years ago) link

I think I feel the opposite to you, Dirty Vicar. I mean, logically I agree that playwrights are best considered on stage, but with Beckett I like the sense of mental sparseness I get when I read his theatrical writing, and feel that it's appropriate it's not fleshed out more.

(A parallel might be Wyndham Lewis' supposedly 'unperformable' play Enemy of the Stars, which I've always felt to be proto-Beckettian. Of couse it can't be unperformable really - I'm sure an imaginative director could find ways round difficulties of presentation.)

That could just be a convoluted way of saying 'I don't like how Beckett's staged' or indicative of the fact that I don't really enjoy going to the theatre. And in fact I feel the same way about Shakespeare by and large.

This isn't about post-colonialism, sorry. When I linked to woof linking to the book I did initially write something about how my feeling was that often post-colonial studies seem often to include anything published in an ex-colony (latter-half-of-20thC colony) and that I felt happier with calling post-colonial literature published that dealt with colonial and post-colonial life/death w/e.

I deleted it though, because while I feel that's gesturing in the right direction, it's very difficult to work out where the boundaries are: there is of course a decent-ish argument to say that anything published or written in an ex-colony is in some way a product of post-colonialism and engages with the process. But frankly this is where I stop caring about the term, and start feeling it's generally unhelpful. Bloody hell, tho, I can tell you from when I worked in a bookshop, wading through the publications offered up, it's one hell of an industry.

Fizzles the Chimp (GamalielRatsey), Thursday, 1 September 2011 10:21 (nine years ago) link

'the caribbean afterlives of t.s. eliot.' just sayin'.

i'm not sure i agree that beckett is 'primarily' a playwright.

i read most of them in sixth form. one per lunchbreak. i think they were all filmed for channel four about the same time. which is so weird, to think of, now, that only ten years ago a public-access channel might spend a lot of money filming the entire theatrical works of samuel beckett.

they did it to sell to schools, i think, but oh well.

thomp, Thursday, 1 September 2011 11:12 (nine years ago) link

i really should read hugh kenner. i wonder what he made of the idea of postcolonial literature.

thomp, Thursday, 1 September 2011 11:13 (nine years ago) link

"Colonialism and post-colonialism are not geographical, or chronologically historical factors. Colonialism and post-colonialism are ideas, perspectives that could exist at any age, any time, in any country. Colonialism works like patriarchy, it is not an event, it is a discourse. "

thomp, Thursday, 1 September 2011 11:14 (nine years ago) link

that wasn't hugh kenner

thomp, Thursday, 1 September 2011 11:14 (nine years ago) link

I feel a bit colonialised this morning. I might try to subvert the discourse.

you don't exist in the database (woof), Thursday, 1 September 2011 11:27 (nine years ago) link

'the caribbean afterlives of t.s. eliot.'

haha wait i think i know the dude who's running this one, iirc it's pretty walcott-tastic.

bethnal green and baudrillard (c sharp major), Thursday, 1 September 2011 11:32 (nine years ago) link

xpost to thomp, yeah I came to Beckett as a novelist principally and still adore all of them - would happily pluck Murphy from the shelf if I needed a light-feeling commute read even.

Fizzles the Chimp (GamalielRatsey), Thursday, 1 September 2011 11:57 (nine years ago) link

Fizzles - if you don't like going to the theatre then I suppose reading plays is for you. But in general I feel that this is like saying "I hate watching films but I love reading scripts". That said, there are plays that were written primarily to be read, with no realistic expectation that they would ever be staged, so reading them is alright.

On post-colonial literature - it does seem like a bit of an umbrella category, as in "these guys are from somewhere that used to be a colony, therefore they are writing post-colonial literature". I suppose you can say "But look, in their work they do X, Y, and Z, which indicates that they are to some extent all about post-colonial stuff", though someone else can say "I think you will find that X, Y and Z often appear in books by people who are not from colonies, so UR FULE". And thus the cycle of academia continues, perhaps with someone talking about how the post-colonial discourse has infected even writers who are not from former colonies (like, eh, Hanif Kureishi).

It strikes me as well that post-colonialism is like musical genres discovered by critics.

The New Dirty Vicar, Thursday, 1 September 2011 12:20 (nine years ago) link

actually that quote from Thomp above is great... it is a handy excuse to say that everything is, in its way, postcolonial. Kind of like the way you get people saying that all music is jazz.

The New Dirty Vicar, Thursday, 1 September 2011 12:21 (nine years ago) link

c sharp major: j4r4d z1mbl3r?

to be fair i probably shouldn't be making fun of a one-week seminar taught by a guy i never met, partic. when the description in the course booklet actually avoids the term 'postcolonial' -- it's just the first phrase in there that i opened the booklet and went "ayup this is definitely an english department"

scripts:plays::scripts:films is a bit broken imo

thomp, Thursday, 1 September 2011 12:26 (nine years ago) link

i mean, war of the worlds with tom cruise exists in a definitive version, it's the film with tom cruise. whereas if i see tom cruise as hamlet there's an argument that studying the first folio is actually closer to having some 'definitive' or 'authentic' idea of what the play hamlet is about

this is probably all a bit 101 tbf

thomp, Thursday, 1 September 2011 12:28 (nine years ago) link

yeah yeah, I was just using the analogy to make clear that I AM RIGHT.

The New Dirty Vicar, Thursday, 1 September 2011 12:29 (nine years ago) link

fair enough

thomp, Thursday, 1 September 2011 12:30 (nine years ago) link

thomp: yes! he is a friend of my bro's, nice dude. not sure the seminar was originally his idea tbh (his specialism is post-colonial tho).

bethnal green and baudrillard (c sharp major), Thursday, 1 September 2011 12:59 (nine years ago) link

just to keep 101ing postcolonial lit, I guess there's an identifiable core that's, yes, about life (& specifically interactions between diff cultures, hybrid cultures forming) in places that used to be colonies; and rewritings of things from colonising cultures by or from the POV of the colonised (which I think what poco studies loves loves loves more than anything else). But it's a dull critical toolkit when overextended, everyone ends up subverting or inverting hegemonic discourse.

I dunno, as I've said before, I'm theory-dumb.

you don't exist in the database (woof), Thursday, 1 September 2011 13:19 (nine years ago) link

But it's a dull critical toolkit when overextended,

This is key –- isolated study of post-colonial lit reinforces notions of nation and border, and largely ends up reifying the conceit of largesse in the dominant nationality represented, kind of paternalistically allowing entry to the underclass/ colonial class. Good books I've read that fit into this category, even if unoriginal:

Wole Soyinka - The Interpreters
Russell Banks - Continental Drift
Jean Rhys - Wide Sargasso Sea
Ousmane Sembane - God's Bits of Wood

notorious ilx wet noodle (remy bean), Thursday, 1 September 2011 13:35 (nine years ago) link

Hawthorne

Kreayshawnism should be taught alongside evolushawn (Michael White), Thursday, 1 September 2011 14:20 (nine years ago) link

washington irving

thomp, Thursday, 1 September 2011 14:56 (nine years ago) link

huh, good call

notorious ilx wet noodle (remy bean), Thursday, 1 September 2011 14:57 (nine years ago) link

what threads on ILX would count as post-colonial?

The New Dirty Vicar, Thursday, 1 September 2011 16:10 (nine years ago) link

Irish Home Rule

the pinefox, Thursday, 1 September 2011 21:09 (nine years ago) link

Do you get the inverse kind of book, i.e. one written in a former coloniser country that is all "Oh woe us, we used to be able to boss foreign people around, and now our identity is so confused".

I'm guessing the answer is yes.

The New Dirty Vicar, Friday, 2 September 2011 10:30 (nine years ago) link

Yes

Fizzles the Chimp (GamalielRatsey), Friday, 2 September 2011 10:32 (nine years ago) link

niall ferguson? philip larkin?

joe, Friday, 2 September 2011 11:59 (nine years ago) link

You get academic books about that phenomenon.

I am not terribly sympathetic to them, as I think alleged phenomena like 'post-colonial melancholy' have been immensely exaggerated.

Putting my Merlot where my mouth is, I have tried to argue this at some length to would-be academics, noting, for instance, that in too many years of living in the UK I have virtually never met anyone who has expressed any regret or anger, let alone melancholy, at the end of the British Empire. I have suggested, and I would suggest again, that if there ever was any post-colonial melancholy, it would be something limited to a very specific group at a particular time (eg: people who served the Empire in India and were sent back to England at the end of the 1940s), and has, frankly, almost no pertinence to British life as I have witnessed it in the last decades.

On the whole I don't even think 'confused identity' is a great theme, probably because I am not sure I believe in 'national identity' when it comes down to it. Maybe national identity is a thing (Irish, English, Palestinians) believe or want to believe when they are under siege from a military aggressor. But then maybe 'identity' is a red herring and what they want is just to be free in their own place, which seems a good enough aspiration.

the pinefox, Friday, 2 September 2011 22:24 (nine years ago) link

I hate this shit

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Friday, 2 September 2011 22:25 (nine years ago) link

there are great authors that are taught in schools under the banner of being "post-colonial" (like coetzee I guess) so in a way its alright w/ me

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Friday, 2 September 2011 22:26 (nine years ago) link

probably my favorite book ever, Palm Wine Drinkard, I haven't read it in a really long time, is post colonial tho

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Friday, 2 September 2011 22:27 (nine years ago) link

"I have virtually never met anyone who has expressed any regret or anger, let alone melancholy, at the end of the British Empire."

c'mon son

zvookster, Friday, 2 September 2011 22:29 (nine years ago) link

I haven't thought about this too hard but maybe the thing about this category that really triggers me is that it contextualizes the work in a way that makes life all about the colonizer when the works are much richer

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Friday, 2 September 2011 22:32 (nine years ago) link

rk narayan is really worth your time in the post-col deal

I think it's fair enough to group the literatures of places whose authors wouldn't be writing in the languages they right is as "post-colonial" & find all the "what a bogus designation" stuff on this thread kinda weird

pathos of the unwarranted encore (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, 2 September 2011 22:52 (nine years ago) link

nah that makes sense

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Friday, 2 September 2011 22:57 (nine years ago) link

I prob have all this anger because I was an english major tbh

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Friday, 2 September 2011 22:58 (nine years ago) link

It's not a bogus designation.

Lots of writers have been postcolonial and some of them have written about that historical or geographical situation.

the pinefox, Friday, 2 September 2011 22:59 (nine years ago) link

writing in the languages they right is

man oh man I knew I was sleep-deprived but this is next-level

pathos of the unwarranted encore (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, 2 September 2011 23:03 (nine years ago) link

Hey my annoyingly titled thread worked! (or at leat it generated posts)

From the Beckett discussion above - is it another way of saying that a writer writes from a position of exile - now many writers in Latin America were quicked out from dictatorships in the 70s and 80s and had to write and publish abroad but this can also be widened to others who were alienated and yet lived inside (because they couldn't exist on the outside). Thinking of Genet, Mishima or Bernhard.

yeah yeah, I was just using the analogy to make clear that I AM RIGHT.

― The New Dirty Vicar, Thursday, 1 September 2011 12:29 (2 days ago)

I know you know you're not.

It so annoys me that Beckett is considered primarily a playwright when his fiction is so good. Same w/Chekhov. Was reading White's Genet biog this week and was further annoyed by how successful his plays seemed to be in comparison to his fiction. Count me as a play reader, for the most part. Seems this favouring of plays is part of the culture, which should be annihilated.

What's Soyinka's The Interpreters like?

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 3 September 2011 08:32 (nine years ago) link

Seems this favouring of plays is part of the culture

I'm not sure what culture you live in but almost nobody reads plays

pathos of the unwarranted encore (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Saturday, 3 September 2011 10:20 (nine years ago) link

agree

the pinefox, Saturday, 3 September 2011 10:31 (nine years ago) link

Favouring of plays over novels that leads to people dismissing Beckett's novels or Chehkhov's stories.

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 3 September 2011 10:31 (nine years ago) link

I feel that theatre, drama, plays are a marginalized area that cries out for sympathy and support

which is one reason I can't bring myself to point out that Beckett is not primarily a dramatist

the pinefox, Saturday, 3 September 2011 10:33 (nine years ago) link

nine years pass...

really enjoyed this

https://thepointmag.com/criticism/beyond-the-guilt-tax/

k3vin k., Thursday, 18 February 2021 07:12 (two weeks ago) link

Excellent, should read Bibhutibhushan Bandyopadhyay’s novels

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 18 February 2021 07:38 (two weeks ago) link

i enjoyed that article and am currently teaching a seminar on postcolonial lit to my students, so it's relevant to my interests. the way she describes the instrumentalization of indian literature to make a moral critique does not match how i use texts in my classroom, but i have noticed in recent years my students are more and more inclined to read all literature (white literature, too!) to determine the "moral" or to figure out how it illustrates racism or sexism or homophobia (never capitalist wealth inequality, though!) when they write analytically about these topics, they never have an argument! just "this is misogynist," like, okay, and? it's depressing, and i try to fight as much as possible the tendency to read literature as though it's a fable. i am actually not teaching any indians in this course; in my experience indian lit is overrepresented in postcolonial classes and india is maybe the least representative colonial situation i can think of? also i will admit i feel weird about teaching indian lit to mostly non-indian american students as an indian american.

horseshoe, Thursday, 18 February 2021 13:45 (two weeks ago) link

a book i was never exposed to in college or grad school, but which i now teach and think is great is tayeb salih's season of migration to the north. it helps to have read heart of darkness, but it's not necessary.

horseshoe, Thursday, 18 February 2021 13:46 (two weeks ago) link

regarding the discussion upthread about the potentially bogus nature of the category "post-colonial lit," i am agnostic on that question. i inherited this class from a colleague who, like me, was educated in the late 90s and early 2000s and found postcolonial studies revelatory. on the one hand, it strikes me as kind of a dated concept; on the other, it also feels timely inasmuch as we're living in an era of declining American imperialism. infusing history and politics into literary studies is tricky, and if it's done crudely, as critiqued in the article k3vin posted, inadequate, but my approach in this class is to teach some rich texts written by writers in nations that have been colonized--the texts themselves determine what we discuss, rather than some preconceived historical agenda.

horseshoe, Thursday, 18 February 2021 13:55 (two weeks ago) link

was educated in the late 90s and early 2000s and found postcolonial studies revelatory

ha same. I was taken aback on entering grad school in the mid-10s to find the term and theory were now scorned, at least here in Canada where the "post" was viewed exclusively as an erasure of the realities of a never-ceased settler colonialism. It is admittedly weird to read some of the opening posts itt and see Australia and Ireland mentioned without any acknowledgement of continuing occupation.

rob, Thursday, 18 February 2021 14:03 (two weeks ago) link

that said, over-correcting to "nothing/nowhere is post-colonial" is pretty offensive imo

rob, Thursday, 18 February 2021 14:11 (two weeks ago) link

i mean the difficulty of the term is kind of that everything is ongoingly colonial and it's hard to be specific. also have to say fanon, said, clr james...i still find that stuff relevant and useful in the classroom.

horseshoe, Thursday, 18 February 2021 14:12 (two weeks ago) link

Yes, to be more precise it was more the, let's say, second-wave theorists that had become unfashionable. The three you listed are all very much still discussed; James and maybe even Fanon seem, if anything, more prominent to me now. I've also been assigned "Can the subaltern speak?" multiple times. And of course coloniality/decolonization are huge topics.

rob, Thursday, 18 February 2021 14:25 (two weeks ago) link

lol i do not find spivak useful in the classroom because i do not want to inflict her prose on high school students. she is correct about the subaltern, though.

horseshoe, Thursday, 18 February 2021 14:28 (two weeks ago) link

haha assigning that to high schoolers might technically be unconstitutional

rob, Thursday, 18 February 2021 14:37 (two weeks ago) link

It's a senior seminar, to be clear, and i find fanon, said, and james digestible in excerpted form, but spivak is too far.

horseshoe, Thursday, 18 February 2021 14:38 (two weeks ago) link

that's really cool to hear. I think the closest I got to reading anything like that in high school was Achebe's essay on Heart of Darkness, which we only read in conjunction with HOD.

rob, Thursday, 18 February 2021 14:41 (two weeks ago) link

i felt weird teaching season of migration to the north without teaching heart of darkness, but i can't quite wrap my head around teaching heart of darkness tbh. i was taught it in high school, and it blew my mind, but...it's tough.

horseshoe, Thursday, 18 February 2021 14:42 (two weeks ago) link

everybody should read season of migration to the north btw so i have someone to discuss it with who is not a high school student (love my students, but it would also be nice to discuss it with adults!)

horseshoe, Thursday, 18 February 2021 14:44 (two weeks ago) link

never heard of it until you posted -- noted!

rob, Thursday, 18 February 2021 14:49 (two weeks ago) link

i will read it, sounds great! but it may be in a year. i just started going from the top corner of my bookshelf and HOD is close by. i read it a while ago already. then i read king leopold's ghost this year which made me want to read it again.

superdeep borehole (harbl), Thursday, 18 February 2021 15:26 (two weeks ago) link

King leopold’s ghost is such a great book! One of the best history books I’ve ever read? I am too frivolous to make it through most history books.

harbl, I hope you enjoy season of migration whenever you get to it!

horseshoe, Thursday, 18 February 2021 15:32 (two weeks ago) link

it's been 15 years but yes King Leopold's Ghost is really amazing

rob, Thursday, 18 February 2021 15:54 (two weeks ago) link

i have never read a non-fiction book faster!

superdeep borehole (harbl), Thursday, 18 February 2021 16:30 (two weeks ago) link

i felt weird teaching season of migration to the north without teaching heart of darkness, but i can't quite wrap my head around teaching heart of darkness tbh. i was taught it in high school, and it blew my mind, but...it's tough.

― horseshoe, Thursday, 18 February 2021 bookmarkflaglink

Reason season but not Heart of Darkness. Should correct.

There are a few things I think of post-colonial that I want to read:

Driss Chraïbi - The Distant Past

(A few others I have that I want to make more of a list)

It does seem, from the global south, that only Latin American Literature gets to be anything other than post-colonial. And that's possibly because a lot of it's writers are from European ancestry.

xyzzzz__, Monday, 22 February 2021 22:04 (two weeks ago) link

*Read 'Season...' that should say, above

xyzzzz__, Monday, 22 February 2021 22:11 (two weeks ago) link

As an American, my favorite post-colonial alternative storyline is that if only we'd failed at Revolution, there would have been no Civil War.

dow, Monday, 22 February 2021 22:37 (two weeks ago) link


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