What do you think of David Mitchell's Cloud Atlas?

I have to personally disagree with you about the central story: this was by far my favorite part of the book, and still haunts me whenever I think about it. I'm fascinated by language, and the development of language throughout the book is completely plausible (unlike Atwood's future speak in Oryx & Crake, which felt false and forced). What I loved most was the direct line between the "outermost" story and the "innermost" story, how a great amount of time separated them, but not a lot was different.

A few things that might help make sense of this book:
Mitchell's piece in the Guardian about rereading Calvino's If on a winter's night a traveller: http://books.guardian.co.uk/departments/generalfiction/story/0,,1221892,00.html

Mitchell on the seeds of ideas that grew into Cloud Atlas: http://www.readysteadybook.com/dmcloudseeds.html

An excerpt:

"So my Chatham Island notebook contains mostly questions – but some struck me as having a contemporary resonance. Is non-violence a viable defence if your enemy doesn’t share your conscience? Are all civilizations condemned to extinction by their strengths? What are the modern tribes? Nations? Corporations? Demographic strata? Can Globalism be considered a civilization? Will it, fueled by consumption, one day consume itself? How will its remnants be “Moriorized”? Is history a fiction? Is the future a fiction based on the present?

These questions are the seeds that grew into Cloud Atlas."

I know we know fiction is fictional (!) but it becomes problematic when a character you have invested time and interest in (Timothy Cavendish) turns out to be the main player in a movie and that the other section, concerning Luisa Rey, is not only a character in a crime novel but a fictional character in a crime novel which plays a bit part in a fictional movie about a fictional book publisher. After a while the whole thing - rather than building some significance from this accumulation of fictions - just crumbles away. I Know it's not real, i know it's a novel and i've read many books which make you question the "reality" of what you have in front of you but with this one everything just dissipates and you're left feeling like you have just wasted your time.

I think it's a very personal preference. I don't think I would've liked the book as a whole if I didn't latch on to certain small moments in each story, such as the image of Zach'ry telling the central story (an homage to the oral origins of storytelling, and slightly reminiscent of Heart of Darkness), Frobisher's descriptions of Zedelghem, and Adam's encounter with the volcano people (forgive the vague details: it's been a year since I read it). I think this is why I get so defensive of this book: those scenes resounded with me so much that they have become a part of my world.

Also, the fact that I have a huge crush on David Mitchell (Ghostwritten intrigued me, his good looks and speech impediment won me over) doesn't hurt his case. I often wonder if I hadn't been a fan already what I would've made of him after reading this book. Though I'm inclined to think I would still want more...

I took the plunge after loving the first two pages and I continued to love it. I'll admit that for much of the book I felt he was more techincally dazzling than heartfelt, but by the end I was so moved, just profoundly so. More than any other book I've read recently, I keep coming back to the book in my mind...

I loved the outer two stories and the inner two stories. The sheer variety of the book amazes, of course.

I'm intrigued by zan's post, but I have to say I didn't see it as being about storytelling. The main idea for me: What hope is there for humanity, given the way we treat each other? (Answer: a little.) As a cyclical vision of human history, it's awesome.

I thought the book was beautifully structured, despite the gimmicky bits - much more than a loosely connected set of individual tales. An unexpected treat, and I will definitely be reading more of Mitchell. Which is great because No 9 Dream didn't appeal to me in the least when it came out (the covers made it sound trendy, pseudish and possibly wilfully obscure). I will certainly read it now.

Jace's perpetual sense of danger, semi-lucid understanding of the world, neurotic cogitations, sex preoccupation, topography of 'popularity', career aspirations, etc., all of these seem impressively appropriate to me, precise and well-considered for a 13-year old growing up in an isolated backwater. I'm aware of how unliterary it is to claim a novel's 'realness' is its quality -- especially a very poetic novel -- but there's something admirably sincere to me in the character of Jace. What I mean is: I was a lot like him, and I appreciate the care with which he was drawn.

My weird nagging issues on this are totally mechanical, though -- he does so much to toy with the idea that there's a mechanical in-the-book connection between all these characters, but he doesn't have one! For some reason this bugged all hell out of me: why keep hinting that you've got a concrete, non-thematic explanation for the form when you really, really don't? The many airy allusions to reincarnation are blown apart by (among other things) Luisa Ray: Cavendish would have been born around the point Frobisher died, so why is there a character from a thriller shoehorned between them? This wouldn't normally be a problem, but there's something about the form that leads you to believe the second halves of the story will give you a change to figure something out about the connections -- not something thematic, but something physical -- and yet with a lot of those second halves he seems to be writing purely for plot, just enjoying wrapping up the tales themselves, as if most of his content was on the page by the middle section, and everything thereafter is just tidying up.

So beyond the center section, I was mostly just chopping through to get the thing done, pushing through a lot of pages looking for some connections that didn't seem likely to crop up.

The one connective gesture that's really interesting me is the recurrence of the cars/bridges/escape thing. (Ha, especially since Black Swan Green says the Dhonts died in a car accident.) Dhont runs over the pheasant, or whatever, and from there on Luisa's rammed off a bridge escaping the island, Cavendish rams through the nursing-home gate and escapes, there's a car crash in Sonmi's escape from the university, and there's the bridge collapse in Zachry's and Metonym's escape from the island in the center bit. My fear, though, is once again that Mitchell's hinting at connection here without having anything very specific in mind, nothing beyond "and they will all have some sort of crisis/escape moment involving cars and/or bridges."

(I'm also amazed that a guy who's certainly not embarrassed about genre-fiction cliches and lame revelations didn't offer some sci-fi style linkup -- what, suddenly he's above that kind of thing?)

My point's that there's a total thematic connection, which is all I necessarily need. But since he's certainly not afraid of sci-fi revelations (or too self-consciously "literary" for them), and since he's dropping hints about birthmarks and reincarnation, I'm wondering what stops him from putting a concrete link in -- you know, the kind of corny mechanical stuff a sci-fi writer would do, where some bit of puzzle explains the recurrence.

On a different note, the Frobisher parts seem the most interesting -- possibly the most independent in Mitchell's mind from the notion of the book as whole, which might explain why it finds its way into Black Swan Green. Most of the sections of Cloud Atlas deal with power vs weakness and exploitation in a very grand and direct way -- colonialism, corpocracy, etc. It took me a while to decide that the power dynamic he was working with in the Frobisher bits weren't related to the WWI stuff, but the rigidity of, like, polite society, which was kind of fascinating to me. Frobisher's bits seem like they're the most lacking in an enemy, or any grand displays of force or power or oppression: it's interesting for him to take up the drawing room as one (smaller) arena for the same stuff.

this is totally OTM. i'm reading Black Swan Green now. stop giving the game away, nabisco.

...although part of me wonders where the frobishers (if i remember right) can come into anything since that section was a movie within a book (and the Louisa Rey [sp?] thing was a thriller within the movie withing the book). all superficially very clever but actually not very tight. strange though, because i think Mitchell IS very clever but the devices he uses make him appear wanting in some way.

so far BSG is decent. written like a boys own story & with that pace. the 70's cultural references are so forcefully shoehorned, though, that most stick out like a sore thumb and a few have made me groan.

Maybe he wanted to get close to the corny mechanical stuff but not pull the trigger? Because you're right, he's obviously aware of that sort of thing. Maybe he was afraid of falling off the cliff into the Valley of Corniness? Anyway.

Wait, this is the second time this has gotten confused: the only one that seemed to be honestly fictional was the Luisa Rey one! Cavendish was "real" -- he appears in a film for Somni, but that's theoretically because he says, at the end of his segment, that he's publishing his story and optioning the movie rights.

Which of course creates one of many loose threads, which is that Rufus Sixsmith and Frobisher's letters appear in the Luisa Rey "fiction," so ... who knows. I guess we should presume the author drew those things from reality? Or, hell, that Luisa's story is more of a "true crime" tale? Ha, once again, my word to Mitchell: if you don't have the connections worked out, don't just toss them in there and pretend we'll enjoy puzzling over them!

i can't believe this book hasn't been marketed in a major way to teenagers. if i was a parent or teacher i would be urging kids to read it.

I think that if I were to re-read 'Cloud Atlas' I would have to read from the middle story "Sloosha's Crossin'" outward, ie., backwards in time, although I thought the Timothy Cavendish, Luisa Rey and Zedelghem stories were bunk. "Sloosha's Crossin'" and "Orison of Sonmi-451" were, however, brilliant. Jest Memr'yn'n'Writin' on 'em's got me thinkin'o how great they were.

he seems a bit neil gaiman

except he can write circles around him!

he's the neil gaiman of writing

I'm reading CA now, at last. It's awesome - literally, what this novelist can do with his genre is a little awe-inspiring. Then again, I felt that with Ghostwritten first time out, and it seemed to creak a bit more on second reading.

Maybe, though, that more jaded doubt is to underestimate his ability with small things. What really struck me with GW was not just the structure and diversity, but the level of detail, of style, voice, observation. DM's capacity to see, remember and place things is part of what can be awesome about him - the London section of GW, for instance, has so much scattered truth about London in it; the Tokyo section is so full of little beauties. And I think his style - brisk, lyrical, droll - is still switched on a lot of the time in CA.

Anyway I'm only 3 chapters in! So not gonna read thread for spoilers.

But Black Swan Green by the way - a eloquent defence of it upthread, but I found it remarkably disappointing, regularly misjudged and redundant; odd from an author whose instinct so often seems so good. Maybe the links between CA and BSG will slightly redeem the latter for me.

wish i hadn't read BSG before reading CA, because i missed the significance of the frobisher/eva references in BSG. still, i love both, although nabisco is otm™ about the mechanical vs thematic connections. the thematic stuff was way stronger, and the mechanical stuff was a little frustrating. i kept thinking that the birthmark stuff was weak and was waiting for some kind of payoff. it seems like mitchell agrees, at least judging from the winky part about the structure of 'cloud atlas sextet' where he writes something like "revolutionary or gimmick? i won't know until it's finished." ghostwritten did almost the exact same thing to much better effect imo, although cloud atlas is way more entertaining and probably better written (it's been so long since i've read ghostwritten, i don't remember the prose very well).

looking forward to his new one: http://www.amazon.com/Thousand-Autumns-Jacob-Zoet-Novel/dp/1400065453/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1265140939&sr=8-1

Just finished "The Thousand Autumns of Jacob de Zoet".

He's done away with the clever forms, and just allowed his narrative sleight-of-hand to exist on a chapter by chapter basis. The prose style is, when dealing with the European characters, a gorgeous Melville pastiche, like the first part of Cloud Atlas. It's denser than his previous books and very rewarding. I preferred Black Swan Green to Mitchell's previous books; when he keeps his social commentary bubbling underneath a more urbane coming-of-age story--or in Jacob de Zoet's case, a romance--it has more resonance. Mitchell is one of my favourite authors and "de Zoet" is his best book.

Sounds great! Think this is going to be a good summer book for me. Cheers, Ówen.

I have to warn you, though, that this is another one of those one-sitting reads. I read Cloud Atlas in a feverish three days and this one in two. Don't start it when you have work to do.

Hmm, yes, thanks for that as well. Do love those books, and the experience of one-sitting reads, where they briefly take over your life, but it's nice to have a clear run at 'em.

oh shit, I didn't realize this was out.

it's not. looking forward to it though.

it's out in two weeks here and in two months where you are.

omg you're the only one, pinefox! besides me! who doesn't like if on a winter's night! <3!

Crazy talk!

i like his novels a lot but am also biased cuz ive interviewed a couple of times and he was just super intelligent and engaged and fun to talk to and once took like an extra hour just to chat w/ me abt like japanese music and nabakov, and was really encouraging and kind abt my own writing

'ghostwritten' is his best book, i think, although there are stretches of 'cloud atlas' that are incredible i think some of the sections really lag, also hes better at beginning than ending mb

hes kindof a storyteller at heart tho, i think, like he cares abt his characters and what happens to them, it makes his more fractured stories less inventive/clever but also nicer to read cuz theyre not just chess pieces or w/e. when i talked to him abt 'black swan green' he talked a lot abt 'realism' and caring abt truth which is kinda in opposition to calvino, sort of

My favorite part of Jacob de Zoet was the final section: the sea captain's ruminations.

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more here http://insidemovies.ew.com/2012/07/25/cloud-atlas-photos-tom-hanks-halle-berry-exclusive-first-look/

long ass trailer http://www.joblo.com/video/player.php?video=cloud-atlas-long-trailer

Running time 164 minutes

why is this not a tv show

Haha wau this looks fucking terrible. I will definitely go and see it.

I'm assuming Tom Hanks's character has just been made up for the film version?

Where does that Guy Ritchie-style gangster subplot in present day London fit in?

As if that weren’t complicated enough, each cast member plays multiple roles ... “We thought about these individual characters as aspects of larger characters,” Lana Wachowski says.

I'm just trying to understand ... why we keep making the same mistakes ... over and over.

DEATH LIFE BIRTH FUTURE PRESENT PAST LOVE HOPE COURAGE

EVERYTHING IS CONNECTED

CLOUD ATLAS

matt it's part of the 'ghastly ordeal of timothy cavendish' bit in the book

i don't know if it's because it's completely transparent when done well but why does it seem like nine out of ten films have no decent way of ever representing 'and then he read a book', 'and then he wrote a letter', 'and then he watched a film'

this could turn out to be okay, i think

i dont really know what this is, but that trailer's pretty gonzo!

can i just

http://i.imgur.com/7GQ5M.png

This looks like it could turn into the adaptation of Never Let Me Go.

i like the ott display but if the movie leans as hard on the humorless right here right now vibes as the trailer implies its going to be maybe the worst

tom hanks narrating abt life

the book was fun i hope they kept it fun

can i just

― Hungry4Ass, Thursday, July 26, 2012 8:32 AM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol yes

is that tom hanks, because in that still he looks disconcertingly like john travolta

that is tom hanks

i don't know about this btw. i think cloud atlas actually is one of those bits of work which is guilty of 'reaching for significance' or whatever (sunt lacrimae rerum, ad infinitum) but it gets away with it due to props and skill on mitchell's part -- and those props and that skill include doing talky stuff really, really well, and being pretty adept at pastiche of familiar styles that doesn't look like he's just doing author x

and i don't know if that makes the wachowskis a good match. i know v little about the run lola run guy. also, are they directing different segments? that is probably a good idea if they are.

You would have to be actively trying to fuck up the Luisa Rey section in film, but they might manage it. The Cavendish section really needs to retain the comedy of the original. The Adam Ewing bit and the sci-fi sections could be really po-faced and terrible. I'm worried about what they'll do to the Frobisher character and his music.

ahah the music in the trailer is also kind of ... 'this is what i've been hearing in my dream!!! *circle of fifths*'

ctrl-h 'props' 'chops' on that post above. god i stared at that for like a minute going 'what is wrong here'

What if life
Is a book
Divided into seven parts?
What if the story of man
Dovetails from one chapter to the next?
What if
We spell it out for you in film?

There's no way the Wachowskis will not fuck this up. Between this and Baz Luhrman doing Gatsby, and Keira Knightley doing Anna Karenina, there are going to be some incredibly vulgarised movies of great books soon.

Bad books too: Life of Pi

Cloud Atlas is good but it's not in Gatsby/Anna Karenina territory! The thing about Cloud Atlas is that it would actually make brilliant schlocky Hollywood cinema but I don't really trust the Wachowskis not to blow it.

fantastic (long) interview: http://www.theparisreview.org/interviews/6034/the-art-of-fiction-no-204-david-mitchell

I liked the story about the businessman in Hong Kong and the mythical story best. I liked the dystopian stories least. (Dystopia seems hard to imagine or temporary, fleeting, and situated.)

"dammit weed" lol

so psyched.

http://www.thebookseller.com/news/new-david-mitchell-novel-out-next-autumn.html

I was a bit this way and that on de Zoet but this is goi to be grebt:

The Bone Clocks.

while i loved this book and plan on reading everything else of his i was in exactly the same position as nabisco

My weird nagging issues on this are totally mechanical, though -- he does so much to toy with the idea that there's a mechanical in-the-book connection between all these characters, but he doesn't have one! For some reason this bugged all hell out of me: why keep hinting that you've got a concrete, non-thematic explanation for the form when you really, really don't? The many airy allusions to reincarnation are blown apart by (among other things) Luisa Ray: Cavendish would have been born around the point Frobisher died, so why is there a character from a thriller shoehorned between them? This wouldn't normally be a problem, but there's something about the form that leads you to believe the second halves of the story will give you a change to figure something out about the connections -- not something thematic, but something physical -- and yet with a lot of those second halves he seems to be writing purely for plot, just enjoying wrapping up the tales themselves, as if most of his content was on the page by the middle section, and everything thereafter is just tidying up.

So beyond the center section, I was mostly just chopping through to get the thing done, pushing through a lot of pages looking for some connections that didn't seem likely to crop up.

before the second half i was CONVINCED there was some epic connection that was going to string them all together. my best guess was some kind of rift in time thing where adam ewing somehow travels through time to the post apocalyptic future. zachry refers to "pa n' adam" being captured by kona, so i thought maybe autua was zachry's father, and he and adam had traveled through time due to something that would conspire once they'd reached hawaii. would've worked out perfectly, too, since frobisher hadn't found the second half of adam's diary yet, and luisa hadn't read the second half of frobisher's correspondence yet. then some connection with the nuclear reactor, her father maybe? i hadn't worked out the details past that point. anyways, IMO kind of a missed opportunity and i do agree with nabs that it hinted too much at a connection that wasn't there. but oh well, still an amazing read. is the new one good?

also if luisa is fictional then so are zedelghem and pacific diaries, no? i got the impression it was true crime but as n points out that blows apart the reincarnation thing, although i think mitchell might have just legit fucked up in that regard, as there's an ironic in-joke where timothy cavendish says that he would edit out the suggestion that frobisher and luisa are the same person, at which pt the reader is supposed to knowingly lol like, dude you are that person too!