i understand the series up to the fourth book.
my comprehension gets rather fuzzy at the fifth.
i've been rereading the sixth in bits and pieces to try to get it.
― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 22:03 (sixteen years ago) link
discuss possible links between herbert's mania for unconstrained, natural environmental development with his running story about "The Tyrant" with the strong authorial intervention at each step of the way with his seeming inability to settle on an overarching theme for the story (i mean, he seems to revise the whole continuity in every book! first the tyrant hates the bene gesserit - then all of a sudden they're the only hope in the universe - then they're subsumed into the matres?? and that was the master plan??)
― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 22:05 (sixteen years ago) link
― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 22:13 (sixteen years ago) link
― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 22:36 (sixteen years ago) link
― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 22:38 (sixteen years ago) link
― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 22:39 (sixteen years ago) link
― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 22:47 (sixteen years ago) link
As for story arcs - I didn't think there NEEDED to be one. One of the most attractive points of the books is the way that people swap from side to side - you root for someone that you previously hated.
― Johnney B (Johnney B), Sunday, 11 January 2004 17:40 (sixteen years ago) link
― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 17:54 (sixteen years ago) link
― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 17:59 (sixteen years ago) link
Best baddies ever:
― Bodrick III, Saturday, 1 March 2008 22:12 (twelve years ago) link
I am going to an SF book club tonight, where the book is DUNE.
― The Real Dirty Vicar, Tuesday, 10 February 2009 13:20 (eleven years ago) link
I read the first one long ago and man, that was way more than enough.
― Dr Morbius, Wednesday, 11 February 2009 14:36 (eleven years ago) link
Dune the first one = Classic.
Probably one of my top 5 SF novels - loved how the setting was based around this hard environmental science (which in retrospect doesn't make sense anyway), but then it kind of deliberately tried to piss off all the physics nerds by inserting all this great psychic/telepathy stuff into the narrative. "Screw realistic FTL travel, let's just stick this alien in a tank, feed it hallucinogenic drugs, and it can bend us through space and time." Also loved the idea of the Mentats - "we don't trust AI so we will train humans to be computers instead."
It is a) one of the few canonical SF novels that really stands up, b) seems to pave the way for New Wave in the 1960's and simultaneously make a break with SF as it was in the 40's and 50's (although admittedly this is pure speculation on my part as it was many decades before my birth - contemporary fans and writers may have felt differently).
The rest of the series seemed like a dud to me though - I've read several of the sequels multiple times and really I can't remember anything much about them, except the impression that Frank Herbert really didn't want to write them (maybe that is wishful thinking).
― ears are wounds, Wednesday, 11 February 2009 15:29 (eleven years ago) link
first few posts on here are great
haven't read dune since i was 12, but
"seems to pave the way for New Wave in the 1960s": it came out in '65! although bits of it were being serialised, somewhere, before then. actually, in 'trillion year spree' or 'billion year spree' or whatever its called uneasy New Wave figure b. aldiss admiringly quotes bits of dune at length in order to say: "now, see, this, this is better than all those stories with typographical fol-de-rol, this is what REAL modern sf looked like"
― thomp, Wednesday, 11 February 2009 19:51 (eleven years ago) link
i fucking LOVE dune
― max, Wednesday, 11 February 2009 20:03 (eleven years ago) link
Herbert named one of his characters "Pieter de Vries", which is one letter away from the name of the 20th century comic novelist Peter de Vries. It's a surreal touch. I like to imagine Herbert thinking "let 'em figure that one out."
― alimosina, Wednesday, 11 February 2009 21:20 (eleven years ago) link
It was a nod to skot.
― lemmy tristano (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 12 February 2009 00:34 (eleven years ago) link
it came out in '65!
For some reason I thought it was like 1960-61. But nevertheless Wikipedia dates the beginning of the New Wave movement to 1964 (which is when Michael Moorcock became editor of New Worlds) and the peak as 1971, so it is certainly contemporaneous and definitely could have been an influence on later New Wave writers. Dangerous Visions is debatably part of the New Wave stuff (depends if we just see it as a British phenomenon), but it is often cited as the definitive American New Wave anthology and that came out after Dune in 1967.
― ears are wounds, Thursday, 12 February 2009 10:25 (eleven years ago) link
Given that no one seems to really like the sequels (apart from me, obv.), and The White Plague is ye liveliest awfulnesse, did Frank Herbert write anything else any good? Or was he a one book writer?
― The Real Dirty Vicar, Saturday, 14 February 2009 13:32 (eleven years ago) link
he wrote this hilarious little dirty limerick on a bathroom wall once
― latebloomer, Monday, 16 February 2009 03:48 (eleven years ago) link
i've heard The Whipping Star is good
― goole, Monday, 16 February 2009 04:28 (eleven years ago) link
Whipping Star is my favorite Herbert.
― alimosina, Monday, 16 February 2009 22:13 (eleven years ago) link
I only read the first 3 or so when I was about 20. I loved them & want to read them again, but the only way I can read everything I want to read, keep up my internet addiction, walk the dog, draw, eat, sleep, keep husband, etc, is to shunt several Beth Parkers off to parallel universes, then reunite them periodically into one super Beth Parker, rinse, repeat.
After all, failing to bathe, change clothes or clean house only buys you so much time.
― Beth Parker, Friday, 6 March 2009 14:53 (eleven years ago) link
You need a spice eating monster to bend you some extra time.
I should go back and read Dune again as I remember loving it then devouring the sequels - though they never quite lived up to the first one.
― the innermost wee guy (onimo), Friday, 6 March 2009 16:32 (eleven years ago) link
You need a spice eating monster to bend you some extra time.
Failing that, retirement, at least by the time I hit 80. Disability?
― Beth Parker, Saturday, 7 March 2009 00:05 (eleven years ago) link
reading the first one again 4 the first time since i was like 12 or 13 ... so so dope
― i got nothin (deej), Tuesday, 20 October 2009 08:26 (ten years ago) link
Dune is a classic, even outside of its narrow genre.
Has anyone read the sequels written by Frank Herbert's son and a co-author? I assume they're terrible. (TBH, I thought the last book or two in the series by Frank Herbert were borderline-terrible, e.g., God Emperor of Dune).
― Daniel, Esq., Tuesday, 20 October 2009 10:07 (ten years ago) link
Yeah they're awful, the old man and woman at the end of Chapterhouse are not intelligent face dancers but AI survivors from the butlerian jihad
Also Heretics and Chapterhouse are awesome novels but there are inexplicable elements in them that don't seem to blend well with the earlier stories but perhaps that's because i never finished reading God Emperor which is quite boring
― Obamacare Death Panel for Cutie (wssp), Thursday, 22 October 2009 20:26 (ten years ago) link
Yeah, IIRC, nothing happens in God Emperor. Lotsa "thinking" and "plotting."
― Daniel, Esq., Thursday, 22 October 2009 20:32 (ten years ago) link
Guild Navigators are REAL!!!http://cache.boston.com/universal/bigpicture/13_200716.jpg
― Spencer Chow, Tuesday, 1 December 2009 19:24 (ten years ago) link
(My nerdiest post ever? No, it's probably something to do with Starfleet Battles)
― Spencer Chow, Tuesday, 1 December 2009 19:25 (ten years ago) link
ilx is very booknerd today.
― thomp, Tuesday, 1 December 2009 19:26 (ten years ago) link
― Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 1 December 2009 21:52 (ten years ago) link
Hmm, did a search and thought this was an ILE thread...
― Spencer Chow, Tuesday, 1 December 2009 22:29 (ten years ago) link
Hey so, is there really any reward in reading past the first one? I've read it maybe three times over the last, let's say 10-12 years...I like a lot of the Big Ideas (mainly the whole notion of a character realizing he is the Prophesied Chosen One and being really freaked out about it), but the characters/plot sort of ooze together in the last third or so and I've just never been tempted by the sequels - they feel like cash-ins, but are they?
― Doctor Casino, Friday, 4 December 2009 10:37 (ten years ago) link
An awesome seriously in-depth looks at the Origins of the Book.
― WTF cat with unfitting music (kingfish), Friday, 23 April 2010 19:22 (ten years ago) link
really loved the first one and the fourth (god emperor of dune). The Brian Herbert ones are uniformly terrible.
― toastmodernist, Friday, 23 April 2010 23:54 (ten years ago) link
Before I read it, Dune always had a certain mystique to me. That was the result of some combination of the cover, the fact that my older sister had a copy of it and spoke reverently of it, and my failed attempt to read it when I was too young. (I really couldn't handle long-playing novels until I was in 7th, maybe 8th grade, and still didn't read many then.) When I finally read it many years later, I definitely enjoyed it, but I couldn't get into whatever the followup was. I wasn't that thrilled with Herbert's writing even in Dune, but the story and the whole framework carried it for me.
― _Rudipherous_, Saturday, 24 April 2010 04:07 (ten years ago) link
rereading these right now
there is such a dropoff in quality between dune and dune messiah
about to start children of dune, remember it being better, hopefully?
― dayo, Thursday, 7 July 2011 22:15 (eight years ago) link
he really is just making this stuff up as he goes, huh
― dayo, Wednesday, 13 July 2011 12:53 (eight years ago) link
I remember liking all the sequels I read (up to God Emperor, which is teh total amaze).
but cripes, that God Emperor cover above is astonishing.
― The New Dirty Vicar, Thursday, 1 September 2011 12:27 (eight years ago) link
rereading dune! can't figure out why these are so eminently rereadable to me, but i've read them a million times. even though there's a bunch of stuff that would normally make me not like it, somehow the story makes it all ok.
― rayuela, Friday, 30 March 2012 16:46 (eight years ago) link
finally got the dune encyclopedia, what's the best way to read this shit?
― the late great, Friday, 30 March 2012 16:51 (eight years ago) link
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 16 April 2012 22:00 (eight years ago) link
― Doctor Casino, Monday, 16 April 2012 22:09 (eight years ago) link
what game is that from?
― the late great, Tuesday, 17 April 2012 16:04 (eight years ago) link
Dune the PC Game. I'm on a Let's Play roll these days.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 16:06 (eight years ago) link
is that the isometric RTS one, where you pick one of three houses?
i don't recall the screen looking quite like that but its been, oh, about 20 years since i've played
― the late great, Tuesday, 17 April 2012 16:08 (eight years ago) link
(that link is blocked for me)
I think you're thinking of Dune 2, which was a strategy game. The first is an adventure game:
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 16:45 (eight years ago) link
that dune gif is offtm because a sandworm would have disposed of the body long before it could decompose
― dayo, Tuesday, 17 April 2012 17:04 (eight years ago) link
dune 2 was sweet as hell
― the late great, Tuesday, 17 April 2012 17:18 (eight years ago) link
never played dune 1, will dosbox
oh wow i just looked at the top of the thread - didn't remember i had started it!
― the late great, Tuesday, 17 April 2012 17:22 (eight years ago) link
it's nice to read some people talking about how they like the Dune sequels. So I am not alone in the world. But I never finished Heretics or started Chapterhouse.
I am very envious of anyone who has that Dune Encyclopedia. I remember marvelling at it in shops.
― The New Dirty Vicar, Wednesday, 18 April 2012 21:21 (eight years ago) link
they have some good parts but as a whole they are not that great, honestly
my dune encyclopedia is a PDF ;_;
― the late great, Wednesday, 18 April 2012 21:26 (eight years ago) link
I take it that all the prequels etc. by Norbert Herbert are complete nonsense?
― The New Dirty Vicar, Wednesday, 18 April 2012 21:40 (eight years ago) link
depends how much you like things like licensed star wars or star trek novels
but yeah IMO utter shite
― the late great, Wednesday, 18 April 2012 21:50 (eight years ago) link
i mean i think like SW or ST novels they have little in the way of the spark of creativity that made the originals great and they are basically just boilerplate sci-fi stuff w a thin layer of in-universe flavor on top
― the late great, Wednesday, 18 April 2012 21:52 (eight years ago) link
I never knew about the dune encyclopedia! Any good?
I plowed thru the first 3 books in my reread. Books 2 and 3 are much worse than I remember, but something abt this series requires that once I start reading, I have to read it through its entirety... I recall the last two being a return to the quality of book 1 so am curious to see how I feel about it this time around.
― rayuela, Wednesday, 18 April 2012 21:53 (eight years ago) link
relieved to be finished with god emperor of dune so i no longer have to stand around in the subway trying to hid the crazy looking cover...
― rayuela, Thursday, 26 April 2012 20:30 (eight years ago) link
― rayuela, Thursday, 26 April 2012 20:31 (eight years ago) link
is it weird that I really love Herbert's prose in Dune? feel like a lot of people arent into it but i love it, his descriptions of topography feel like action even when its purely descriptive
― supreme problematics (D-40), Tuesday, 16 June 2015 08:49 (four years ago) link
Yeah, "planetary romance, " like it says on the Science Fiction Encyclopedia site: not that much science, but what there is (re early use of ecological themes in SF, anyway) enhances the power of the setting, which is also a character, in effect. Really enjoyed the first two books all through, rooting for the rebellious children of Destiny, but the struggles of the main character in Children of Dune, trying to make (a new) sense of his future(s) get so torturous and sometimes inchoate--appropriately so, but still it got to be too much for me: like, how much of this is to be sympathized with, and waited out, 'til we get to the cool plot twists again---and they do come!--but also, wondering how much we're supposed to take as stunning insights, rather than characters grasping at straws. (Also, some of the secondary and tertiary characters can make pretty stupid moves).My recent thoughts on God Emperor of Dune, and what might lie ahead, are general impressions, though still may possibly be considered spoilery:ThReads Must Roll: the new, improved rolling fantasy, science fiction, speculative fiction &c. thread
― dow, Tuesday, 16 June 2015 19:37 (four years ago) link
just finished Dune, read it for the first time. Honestly....I really enjoyed reading this, but the ending seemed kind of dud. Everything seemed to wrap up really quickly without too terribly much struggle. And Paul strikes me as kind of a dick. Will reading Children of Dune make me happier?
― Dominique, Thursday, 22 September 2016 17:25 (three years ago) link
Dune Messiah is the second,Children is third, incl. in quality, though it has its strong sections/pages. But If you don't already sympathize with Paul's struggles vs. his fucked-with nature and destiny, go no further (if you do, God Emperor mostly smells like ass, Heretics of Dune is yer Return To Form, but not enough to send me in a timely fashion to Chapterhouse: Dune, the last Dune by series creator Frank Herbert. But I'll get there someday, and could see how the follow-ups written and co-written by his son might work okay as space opera, minus any overload of philosophical etc. elements.
― dow, Thursday, 22 September 2016 18:37 (three years ago) link
thanks -- yeah, most of the time I rooted for him, but some of the time it was clear he was just as capable of being corrupted by power as anyone else. He struggled with it, but also took advantage of his power at times (and also seemed to have an inability to actually deal with the bad stuff that happened to him, other than just shutting it out completely). I guess that's the point? I've also read that in further books, characters that were once "villains" can become more sympathetic.
― Dominique, Thursday, 22 September 2016 20:23 (three years ago) link
Yes, they can---they're all crazy, fucked-with and fucking with, in the cultural midst of cultural imperatives---even the God Emperor means to gradually implode the Order of Things by advancing it, teaching "Don't Follow Leaders, Watch The Parking Meters", but sure does take him a long time, and even though as a comic premise it's funny that he likes torture his followers with huge clouds of philosophical bullshit---like he's Mr. Natural, and everbody else, incl. loyal readers, is Flakey Foont, or Dudley Moore in "Bedazzled"---this isn't as good. But as one of the fucked-with Children of Dune he's more sympathetic. And I'd like to know just how the Bene Gesserit got that way, but anyway they do indeed try to save the day in Heretics--maybe trying too hard in Chapterhouse, judging by sneak peaks, but that tends to the Dune way (incl. that of its creator) after all.
― dow, Thursday, 22 September 2016 21:21 (three years ago) link
in the culturalmidst, I meant
― dow, Thursday, 22 September 2016 21:23 (three years ago) link
THE ONLY GOOD ONLINE FANDOM LEFT IS DUNE
― mookieproof, Saturday, 14 July 2018 20:18 (one year ago) link
Loving the critical reassessment of the Lynch film
― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Saturday, 14 July 2018 20:20 (one year ago) link
well, it's nowhere near as shit as the book
― the ignatius rock of ignorance (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 14 July 2018 20:27 (one year ago) link
I read the series way back in the 80s, but could barely recall it. Re-read the first book recently and was surprised how much I still liked it. Also re-read Dune Messiah, and that book is an utter mess. May still continue on, but I don't have high hopes for the rest.
― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Saturday, 14 July 2018 22:44 (one year ago) link
hadn't realized my fucked-up library sale copy is a first edition
― difficult listening hour, Saturday, 14 July 2018 23:50 (one year ago) link
dune messiah is bad. heretics/chapterhouse are pretty good tho
― mookieproof, Sunday, 15 July 2018 04:09 (one year ago) link
I read them all in middle/high school but I stopped in the early/middle of Chapterhouse when the (spoilers) Literal Jews In Space showed up
― devops mom (silby), Sunday, 15 July 2018 04:12 (one year ago) link