London ILB - FAP?

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Still away, and sorry to miss it. Plz post minutes from all Powell and Anderson discussions.

woof, Thursday, 23 August 2018 08:14 (five years ago) link

I'm waiting for you to get back before I entertain the thought of discussing Powell at a FAP.

Tim, Thursday, 23 August 2018 08:30 (five years ago) link

Shame I can’t do this one - I’m fresh from 9 in a row so I have opinions (which after pint 3 would of course become OPINIONS).

woof, Thursday, 23 August 2018 08:53 (five years ago) link

Tim, we could discuss Chris Powell?

the pinefox, Thursday, 23 August 2018 09:07 (five years ago) link

We could. Whether we should is another matter. And whether we will is a third.

Tim, Thursday, 23 August 2018 09:08 (five years ago) link

Chris, Enoch, Peter...

Scottish Country Twerking (Tom D.), Thursday, 23 August 2018 09:11 (five years ago) link

And Clive Anderson.

the pinefox, Thursday, 23 August 2018 09:13 (five years ago) link

I was thinking Viv.

Scottish Country Twerking (Tom D.), Thursday, 23 August 2018 09:16 (five years ago) link

*ends the ILB FAP by slapping everyone who fails to pronounce it to rhyme with mole*

mark s, Thursday, 23 August 2018 09:55 (five years ago) link

with a great deal of regret that i won’t be making this tonight. lousy work.

give them a slap for me mark. tho also there’s a great deal of pleasure to be had by making snob booksellers wince by saying POW-WELLL.

Fizzles, Thursday, 23 August 2018 18:30 (five years ago) link

AP himself used to ask people how they pronounced the name of Robert Lowell

Ward Fowler, Thursday, 23 August 2018 18:36 (five years ago) link

in which it was concluded

i: perry anderson is the capt haddock of the NLR
ii: but not -- despite the old college try -- the dave q of the LRB
iii: part three will surely be where it all starts jumping

mark s, Thursday, 23 August 2018 23:05 (five years ago) link

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bashi-bazouk

the pinefox, Friday, 24 August 2018 07:55 (five years ago) link

two months pass...

Sad 😞 times. Just found out my favourite pub in London is going to be ruined. The landlords lease expires in January at the Royal Oak in Tabard Street at Borough. Get there soon before it turns into a Gastro Pub. Recommend the Salt Beef Sandwich pic.twitter.com/3prDgXutGe

— Richard Cousins (@rwjc22) November 10, 2018

woof, Sunday, 11 November 2018 12:23 (five years ago) link

I was just thinking about a new ILB FAP this morning :-(

xyzzzz__, Sunday, 11 November 2018 12:47 (five years ago) link

Looking through the comments:

The Harvey’s pub in Wandsworth, The Cat’s Back, is a splendid example of a local. Makes me think The Royal Oak will not be cut down.

— Eddie Fremantle (@eddietheshoe) November 11, 2018

xyzzzz__, Sunday, 11 November 2018 12:53 (five years ago) link

(1) Hi Matthew. Our Estates Manager response:"The Royal Oak is our great London local, full of charm & character which our long standing tenant Frank, and his partner John, have nurtured over the last 25 years. Frank has decided to retire in January when his lease ends...

— Harvey's Brewery (@Harveys1790) November 12, 2018

Sounds like the news isn't particularly bad (I bet it ends up feeling a bit more gastro-y though). NEVERTHELESS we shouldn't allow this good news to deter us from having a FAP at some point. Early Dec?

Tim, Monday, 12 November 2018 14:34 (five years ago) link

i may be able to bring hard copies of the book along for SOME OF YOU

(lol the uncertainty continues re exact pub date)

mark s, Monday, 12 November 2018 14:38 (five years ago) link

Just glad I was able to make it there before this purported change.

Buckaroo Can't Fail (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 12 November 2018 15:06 (five years ago) link

ok this time I will definitely make it. Definitely. If I can.

woof, Monday, 12 November 2018 15:15 (five years ago) link

I am trying to get out of my work xmas dinner which would be on the 1st Thurs of December. Can we do the last Thurs of November to ensure my attendance.

Otherwise pray for me.

xyzzzz__, Monday, 12 November 2018 17:44 (five years ago) link

But aren't you handing out the secret santa gifts this year, xyzzzz___?

I'll be there, I was there just the other week saying to my friend, and this too will go one day. As long as it's not next week. Or the week after.

Fizzles, Monday, 12 November 2018 20:41 (five years ago) link

No, haven't you heard that Secret Santa is cancelled this year?

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 13 November 2018 09:23 (five years ago) link

Will be at FAP if possible.

Would like to see Mark's book.

Concerned about Oak, though Harvey's tweet encouraging.

the pinefox, Tuesday, 13 November 2018 10:19 (five years ago) link

I don't think I can make the 29th but I can make the 6th.

Tim, Tuesday, 13 November 2018 10:31 (five years ago) link

Do it on the 6th, will attend if possible..

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 13 November 2018 11:43 (five years ago) link

will be there.

Fizzles, Wednesday, 14 November 2018 07:49 (five years ago) link

I'm in.

Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 14 November 2018 11:05 (five years ago) link

Nope - can't make that.

the pinefox, Saturday, 17 November 2018 10:25 (five years ago) link

two weeks pass...

Still on? Will try to come after work.

Monica Kindle (Tom D.), Wednesday, 5 December 2018 18:27 (five years ago) link

its on

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 5 December 2018 21:42 (five years ago) link

I’ll be there.

Tim, Wednesday, 5 December 2018 21:53 (five years ago) link

Regrets. Cheers

What is Blecchism ? (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 5 December 2018 22:06 (five years ago) link

me too, with some books!

(no sleb-signed upper-level extras yet tho i fear) (kickstarters are a lot of fiddle it turns out)

mark s, Thursday, 6 December 2018 13:22 (five years ago) link

I see xmas has come early..

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 6 December 2018 14:43 (five years ago) link

6ish for me i shd think

(it was super-rammed on friday btw -- also ridiculously hot -- and we decamped elsewhere) (but friday be bein friday i guess plus it was amateur month eve)

mark s, Thursday, 6 December 2018 15:30 (five years ago) link

I'll be aiming for 6ish also.

Tim, Thursday, 6 December 2018 15:32 (five years ago) link

unless the title has changed wildly, the verso book abt psychedelia and 60s folks as working-class mind expansion has not yet appeared on its lists (even slower than me lol, maybe they ARE making him rewrite it)

mark s, Friday, 7 December 2018 10:29 (five years ago) link

I wish we'd got around to talking about Ravilious earlier in the evening, I think there's something interesting in there but a soberer me could surely have done better than something something woodcuts something Wedgwood.

Tim, Friday, 7 December 2018 10:42 (five years ago) link

raviliouuuuuuuus! *shakes fist*

mark s, Friday, 7 December 2018 11:03 (five years ago) link

(i walk past his house sometimes. it's one of the many blue plaques on 'my' stretch of the thames (morris, doves press, some more...)

koogs, Friday, 7 December 2018 11:17 (five years ago) link

Aw, sorry I forgot about this! Next time.

Daniel_Rf, Friday, 7 December 2018 11:21 (five years ago) link

Next FAP sould take place the week we leave the European Union.

xyzzzz__, Friday, 7 December 2018 11:58 (five years ago) link

I had a work lunch and started drinking at 12.
I was not capable by 6
capable of anything

woof, Friday, 7 December 2018 14:05 (five years ago) link

You'd not have fitted in with this enormously capable bunch.

Tim, Friday, 7 December 2018 14:16 (five years ago) link

by association a line from dead of night spoken by the german psychiatrist just popped into my head – 'My dear boy, I am not accustomed to solving complex problems with the casual ease of your Brains Trust'

i will try and retrieve the dregs of what i was trying to say about ravilious (without pulling the face I pulled).

my day generally has been going much more slowly than anticipated.

Fizzles, Friday, 7 December 2018 14:23 (five years ago) link

I love Eric Ravilious.

the pinefox, Saturday, 8 December 2018 09:08 (five years ago) link

(post post observation – sorry this is so so tl:dr)

so, i'm not sure I'll be able to put down anything coherent (which is probably just as well), but I did retrieve my notes on the Eric Ravilious exhibition at the Dulwich Picture Gallery a few years ago. I didn't know his work beforel, so these were first impressions on a single exhibition. and i haven't got the catalogue but someone did buy me Bawden, Ravilious and the Artists of Great Bardfieldfrom their time in Essex. Also includes Edward Bawden, John Aldridge, Bernard Cheese and Sheila Robinson, Walter Hoyle, Michael Rothenstein, Kenneth Rowntree, Marianne Strawb, and there's some lovely stuff in there.

I know the first thing that struck me in the exhibition was the presence of discarded machinery in pastoral landscapes. I scribbled 'material objects like Kipling' by which I think I meant, an intrinsic interest in the aesthetic qualities of engineering and purpose. this is not to say for Kipling certainly that this is some Futurist crash bang wallop aesthetic, but the non-traditional beauty of efficient purpose, the new environmental qualities our mechanical productions bring, of, if you like animate inanimacy (the mechanical paradox).

couple of opaque scribbled lines:

the bric-a-brac of a previous age, just, that seems to point to a future different to that of human history – bus on barrels pointing to the sun

http://a68.tinypic.com/mv0r5j.jpg

i'm struggling to recapture exactly what I meant by that, but i think it was a sense of a sort of recent history archaeology – things we no longer want or use, but imbued with formal or even ritual significance that implies also discarded meaning.

i have a bad mental tendency to abstraction and allegory in mediums I'm not very fluent in - that's the plastic art and music, so i kind of missed the pictorial elements that gave me that lenten thought:

  • the underpopulated nature of his pictures – the reason i assumed that archaeological aspect is because there's no fucker around. my immediate response to this sort of thing is that it looks like 'an alien landscape' as a consequence; a not very useful ahistorical description, but it gives the idea of 'what are these and what did they use them for?' of objects in his pictures
  • the bleached nature of his 'starved brush' watercolours. this is immediately striking of course, and it didn't strike me other than in a 'these look different' sort of way, but it's the main thing really, and again, moves away from immediacy to other lights, other times and towards a formal emphasis on line
  • 'pointing to the sun' - well yes, this was part of the point. this wasn't a traditional way of doing things - pointing into the sun created a flattened image. Apparently he and Bawden used to compete for hardship when painting (out in the rain, on top of roofs, facing into a blinding sun etc).
material=secret life humans – south coast beach of a life confined.

humans engaged in an activity subsidiary in importance to the meaning of that which they inhabit or contemplate or have ceased to inhabit. the meaning of the world is in these objects (inc rooms)

we enter them as we might realms of consciousness or meaning.

no real idea what that latter part means, but detailed, well observed objects and materials are insightful to people. his great interiors say 'these are the materials and things people who have been in this room have seen and contemplated, and with which in some cases they have chosen to surround themselves (in the book, the chapter on Ravilious regrets that he didn't do more of them as he was so good at them).

http://a65.tinypic.com/2gshit2.jpg

tangles are imposed upon the picture indifferent to perspectives and structures

structures are vivid – there is a comedy and life to the objects – a chirpiness

chirpiness is right, but 'humour' is better than 'comedy' unless i was pointing to some sort of physical comedy (of which that bus on barrels is possibly a good example). the indifference to perspectives i've already mentioned. it's too strongly stated, but flattening things out you can almost see the objects as hieroglyphs.

alien objects almost - contain the tension of hidden or static purpose - sweep and curve of lines, represent the vector on which they appear in the material world (ships screw)

greenwich observatory - more lines of cryptic intent, mysterious vectors

religious bit – these look like pure objects, items deprived of their meaning with a formal importance.

https://pallantbookshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Ravilious-Observatory.jpg

i love the almost ornate almost Byzantine behaviour of the implied lines of direction here – meridian and weather. That Byzantine feel was what led me to buy a print now hanging in my bedroom, uncharacteristic, but still containing much that is definably Ravilious:

http://a66.tinypic.com/2ujmpg5.jpg

going through these notes, it's clear i was waaaay too obsessed with line though I have said further down

light is also an object to which my response now would probably be 'the objects are also light that's painting u fule'.

the lines give everything a tilt, they direct the content

the long lines of access into an object and later - mystical access.

the same lines that give access to the beyond are also those that give the beyond access to the object

and i was also obsessed with the 'object' of the painting, without taking into account how he took the pastoral line and changed it from classically influenced and sculpted landscapes to a new one that was given to him by his observation of the Sussex landscape. He reminds me slightly of some of Samuel Palmer's etchings sometimes, and he captures the South Downs perfectly, so that when I'm there, I see it with eyes influenced by Ravilious' paintings.

I think this is probably all too mystical, too religious, though the sussex downs and pastoral are vehicles for a southern english version of pastoral mysticism – John Ireland, Jocelyn Brooke, and with the addition of a version of Ravilious' detailed understanding of objects, though in his case the minutiae of dolls houses and chinoiserie, Denton Welch. In Ravilious' case it is not influenced by the detail of that mysticism (roughly Roman military + Eleusinian + late neolithic/beaker/bronze age stuff). his mysticism is softer

The second painting I bought was a consequence of this thinking, and was late in the exhibition, and is the one that now strikes me, even irritates me, as platitudinous and lacking the pleasure of the other paintings:

http://a68.tinypic.com/2m2jghe.jpg

as i wrote in my final note:

as if they are labouring at some ultima thule on the brink of existence but going through the laborious toil - process, material delivery.

Fizzles, Sunday, 9 December 2018 11:44 (five years ago) link

the bric-a-brac of a previous age, just, that seems to point to a future different to that of human history

is the technical term for this "hauntology"? (i mean, i think it is, but we may not much want it be given what it's now yoked to)

mark s, Sunday, 9 December 2018 11:53 (five years ago) link

That’s the term I’ve seen

What Do I Blecch? (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 9 December 2018 12:20 (five years ago) link


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