Recommend me a good history book...

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...written before 1000AD.

And preferably one where you don't have to have a special interest in that particular segment of history to appreciate. That is to say, one that will make you interested in the history, rather than one that requires a lot of previous knowledge to be interesting. If you see what I mean.

Histories that are just of wars are not so much what I'm looking for.

Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 27 April 2004 21:47 (twenty years ago) link

Tall order no? Written before 1000AD? Read the Muqqadimah, ibn Khaldun's classic but that's still from the 14th century. John Zonaras (almost pre-millenary) or Procopius. Church fathers. Suetonius or Plutarch. St. Greg of Tours. I'm kinda stumped here.

Michael White (Hereward), Tuesday, 27 April 2004 22:34 (twenty years ago) link

Dude, Pliny the Younger's account of Vesuvius erupting RAWKS!!!:


We also saw the sea sucked away and apparently forced back by the earthquake: at any
rate it receded from the shore so that quantities of sea creatures were left stranded on dry
sand. On the landward side a fearful black cloud was rent by forked and quivering bursts of
flame, and parted to reveal great tongues of fire, like flashes of lightning magnified in size. .
. . We had scarcely sat down to rest when darkness fell, not the dark of a moonless or
cloudy night, but as if the lamp had been put out in a closed room. You could hear the
shrieks of women, the wailing of infants, and the shouting of men; some were calling their
parents, others their children or their wives, trying to recognize them by their voices.
People bewailed their own fate or that of their relatives, and there were some who prayed
for death in their terror of dying. (pp. 443, 445)

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 27 April 2004 23:28 (twenty years ago) link

For real. Buy a copy. Better than Hollywood.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 27 April 2004 23:32 (twenty years ago) link

Thucydides is worth a peek.

otto, Wednesday, 28 April 2004 01:34 (twenty years ago) link

Big names come to mind here.

Herodutus may have been a better story teller than he was an historian, but the histories is a great read.

Thucydides, History of the Peloponnesian War is a fascinating account of both what happened and equally importantly why the Peloponnesian War was fought by a first hand participant.

Finally before I travelled in the Middle East I sat down and read Jospehus's The Jewish War, which again is a eye witness account of the Jewish revolt against Rome and its supression by Vespasian and Titus.

Hope this helps

oblomov, Wednesday, 28 April 2004 02:39 (twenty years ago) link

Seeing St. Greg of Tours used was what inspired the queston. OK, 11th-15th C. books can be considered as well but they have to be damned good.

I don't so much care if the history is 100% accurate -- I plan on giving Herodutus a go at some point.

I am, as mentioned, not quite so interested in histories of war.

Casuistry (Chris P), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 05:13 (twenty years ago) link

Ooopsss missed that last line.

Avoiding the fighting makes it difficult because lots of the history at this point revolved around military campaigns conquest etc.

Definitely try Herodutus, although his central tale is the Persian War, some of his digressions (and he has many) are very entertaining and not related directly to warfare.

oblomov, Wednesday, 28 April 2004 07:50 (twenty years ago) link

Definitely gonna go with Suetonius on this one. I mean, how can you beat all the salacious and fucked up sexual predilections and abuses of the Roman emperors? And this was written by the Imperial Archivist!

Another good Roman read, I think, is the Catalinian Conspiracy by Sallust - plus you don't have to read all of Cicero's blatherings all the way through - you essentially get the good bits and the meanings behind it (much more important).

As for Chinese Historian - try the Records of the Grand Historian, or something to that effect. Written by Sima...someone. (I'm too lazy to check Amazon, but you'll know it when you see it.)

Girolamo Savonarola, Thursday, 29 April 2004 06:39 (twenty years ago) link

Thucydides, History of the Peloponnesian War is a fascinating account of both what happened and equally importantly why the Peloponnesian War was fought by a first hand participant.

this is possibly the best book ever written. The events it covers are fascinating, as is his commentary on it.

Suetonius' "Lives of the Caesars" is an enjoyably gossipy account of the lives of the first Roman emperors.

DV (dirtyvicar), Thursday, 29 April 2004 13:24 (twenty years ago) link

also, the Landmark Thucydides edition of a few years ago is just an awesome bit of publishing, with appendices and commentary and seems like a map on every page

mookieproof (mookieproof), Thursday, 29 April 2004 15:42 (twenty years ago) link

I do like maps.

Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 29 April 2004 17:27 (twenty years ago) link

The Faber Book of Reportage would be a good sampler of a lot of this stuff. (It's got lots of more recent stuff too, of course)

Not exactly history, but Confessions of St. Augustine is good stuff (though I've not read that much of it)

Joe Kay (feethurt), Thursday, 29 April 2004 20:02 (twenty years ago) link

Not too sure where you hail from, but Bede's Ecclesiastical History of the English People is supposed to be good (completed in AD 731), and he was the one who came up with the AD dating system (even though he was a few years out, but I think we can forgive him that.) Erm, have to confess that I haven't actually read it though.

Cathryn (Cathryn), Friday, 30 April 2004 11:50 (twenty years ago) link

Xenophon's account of his own exciting adventures is good fun (and very easy to read in Greek), although it might not count as history in the strictest sense (despite being an essentially true account of actual events).

DV (dirtyvicar), Friday, 30 April 2004 13:50 (twenty years ago) link

The travel of Baldassare By Amin Maalouf , a writer from libano who use the french as mother tongue. Is about a book and antiques seller who lives in the old persia in the 1665, he is almost the last catolic that remains there after crusades failed. And strange book about the name number 100 of good ( by Muslism ) falls in his hands and he sold it for a great price without reading it before. After this he come across all mediterranean coast till London and come back to .... just to buy the book and reading the 100 name of god, despite he is catolic. Is a nice nice novel that is historically true all long. Written a few years ago is newly recent cause all the apocalypsis environment that lived europe and mid orient then ( Existed the believe the end of the world came in 1666! ) and now. The most i try to understand is why 400 years ago the religions lived in more armony than now, or at least, with more respect amog each others. I really recommend you, but i dont know if is possible to buy it in english , i hope so. BYeeeeee

Jose Pacheco (Jose Pacheco), Friday, 30 April 2004 14:28 (twenty years ago) link

Amin Maalouf is a great writer, but he is hardly from before 1000 BC.

I think we should have a separate thread about Amin Maalouf.

DV (dirtyvicar), Friday, 30 April 2004 15:09 (twenty years ago) link

DV, go for it. I love Malouf.

Michael White (Hereward), Friday, 30 April 2004 18:37 (twenty years ago) link

I hail from Portland, Oregon.

Casuistry (Chris P), Friday, 30 April 2004 19:18 (twenty years ago) link

(And these are good selections, thanks all, keep 'em coming.)

Casuistry (Chris P), Friday, 30 April 2004 19:19 (twenty years ago) link

Nobody's mentioned Tacitus yet. Drily ironic tales of messy times. See <http://classics.mit.edu/Browse/index.html>.

Martha Bridegam, Saturday, 1 May 2004 04:10 (twenty years ago) link

Try the Babylonian Creation Epic "Enuma Elish". this long poem was written in the 12th Century BC. to celebrate the city of Babylon. It recounts the creation of the universe and the events that lead up to the creation of Babylon. You have two versions: the Babylonian version (preserved fragmented) and the Assyrian version.
The Book of Enoch and other Apocrypha.
Now there is nothing more ancient than the Sumerian texts; they are beautiful. My favorite is the Tablet of Ereshkigal.

Nelly Mc Causland (Geborwyn), Saturday, 1 May 2004 18:11 (twenty years ago) link

Pausanias's Guide To Greece: Classic or Dud?

Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 6 May 2004 05:02 (twenty years ago) link

two weeks pass...
Caesar's "Gallic Wars" Homer's "Iliad" (bit of a cheat there)

Sredni Vashtar, Thursday, 20 May 2004 20:08 (twenty years ago) link

The Iliad is in no sense a history book.

Caesar's "Gallic Wars" is a good one. It was written more or less simultanaeously with the events it describes, to make Caesar look good to the folks back home while he charged around bashing barbarians.

DV (dirtyvicar), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 18:29 (twenty years ago) link

five years pass...

Recommend me a good history book please. However as opposed to the original post I would prefer something written relatively recently that is entertaining and fascinating. Any period/topic is fine.

congratulations (n/a), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 12:59 (fourteen years ago) link

please

congratulations (n/a), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 15:55 (fourteen years ago) link

Full title: The Pursuit of the Millennium: Revolutionary Millenarians and Mystical Anarchists of the Middle Ages

porn mirth pig (GamalielRatsey), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 16:41 (fourteen years ago) link

JR Hale's Civilisation of Europe in the Renaissance would fill in some gaps between the books up there.

woof, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 16:47 (fourteen years ago) link

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/3742/historym.jpg

Three I have enjoyed: (l-r) World War II, Cold War, Dutch Manhattan

Ismael Klata, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 17:07 (fourteen years ago) link

John Keegan's History of Warfare is good. It's like reading a game of Civilization II.

woof, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 17:20 (fourteen years ago) link

Look no farther than the ILX BOOKS OF THE 00s thread, which has several.

alimosina, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 17:32 (fourteen years ago) link

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Books/Pix/covers/2008/09/25/slaveship.jpg

The Slave Ship: A Human History, by Marcus Rediker

I don't know if you'd be able to say this one is 'entertaining', because a lot of the material is really grim, but it's definitely interesting.

salsa sharkshavin (salsa shark), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 19:44 (fourteen years ago) link

And if that sounds a bit too heavy, Nature's Metropolis by William Cronon is a good one (although the chapter about grain futures might induce sleep). It ties in the development of Chicago with the western states and looks at the commodification of nature/products with the development of the country. It sounds boring (and I was really expecting it to be) but it's one of the most interesting history books I've read.

http://ucla.collegepostings.com/photos/0393308731-Natures-Metropolis-Chicago-and-the-Great-West-p4724_t.jpg

salsa sharkshavin (salsa shark), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 19:50 (fourteen years ago) link

Keith Thomas - Religion and the Decline of Magic. From 1971 but it is wonderfully written, and a fascinating topic.

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 22:34 (fourteen years ago) link

The Cold War - John Lewis Gaddis

my son is reading this - parts of it anyway - for his 8th grade history class.

the mighty the mighty BOHANNON (m coleman), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 09:42 (fourteen years ago) link

Keith Thomas - Religion and the Decline of Magic.

I've got this vague intention of reading his new book, The Ends of Life, but will wait for a library copy I guess.

Also like the look of Europe's Tragedy by Peter H Wilson, about the 30 Years' War & The Inheritance of Rome by Chris Wickham, which covers the Dark Ages.

woof, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 10:31 (fourteen years ago) link

Started but didn't finish The Inheritance of Rome. That was my fault, not the book's; it's a winner imo.

Allbran Burg (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 10:38 (fourteen years ago) link

diarmaid macculloch's 'a history of christianity: the first three thousand years' is really well-written and fascinating-- but also (unsurprisingly) offputtingly long.

lords of hyrule (c sharp major), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 11:04 (fourteen years ago) link

Yeah, his Reformation: Europe's House Divided is really good, serious, interesting and well-written but also very long - I've read a chunk but am dodging the whole thing (think I said on another thread that I might just keep it for reference).

Am bad about finishing history books, tbh, especially out of the period where I feel like I'm on my feet (c. 1600-1740); suspect I'd go same way as Noodle if I start The Inheritance of Rome, but do want to give it a go.

woof, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 11:13 (fourteen years ago) link

Really well-written in fact. He's a very engaging writer.

woof, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 11:15 (fourteen years ago) link

http://www.freedomlab.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/5112VH6VC4L.jpg

i would like to point out that i have read this book in its entirety. not necessarily a huge recommendation but it's informative and has a strong central theme at least.

really though,

http://bluespriite.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/book-cover_bb.jpg

probably not at all what we're dealing with there but really great.

DarraghmacKwacz (darraghmac), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 11:20 (fourteen years ago) link

I'm not a fan of Bryson's lighter stuff, is that one different to his usual steez?

Allbran Burg (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 11:21 (fourteen years ago) link

I've tried to read some of his others, and no they're not nearly as compelling, interesting or focused. It's easily the best thing he's done.

DarraghmacKwacz (darraghmac), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 11:26 (fourteen years ago) link

i have recommended this elsewhere but it's on my shelf and i loved it iirc
http://i39.tinypic.com/1zl7y10.jpg

harbl, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 11:32 (fourteen years ago) link

I know it's not relatively recent but I just want to say Gibbon all-time #1 forever.

woof, Thursday, 25 March 2010 10:09 (fourteen years ago) link

I love that guy, and don't regret a minute of the months it took me to plough through Decline and Fall. In fact, I'd kinda like to do it again. Macaulay too.

Allbran Burg (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 25 March 2010 10:30 (fourteen years ago) link

http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/marcuse/classes/133c/133cproj/cprojimages/FunderStasilandCov.jpg

stasiland by anna funder, atmospheric dispatches about the psychological effect of state intrusion on citizens in the GDR

http://blog.mpl.org/mke_reads/assassination%2520vacation.jpg

assassination vacation by sarah vowell: explores the sites and remnants of the first three presidential assassinations, how they're presented and received now. vowell's writing is super endearing; she does that whole self-deprecating i'm-such-a-geek thing with a charm and purpose that seems absent from other nerd-esoterica-writers like rob sheffield &c.

egregious apostrophising (schlump), Thursday, 25 March 2010 12:20 (fourteen years ago) link

one month passes...

Mentioned it on another thread, but this rocks -

http://www.bookschristian.com/images/products/9780631220794.jpg

Review here -

http://www.history.ac.uk/reviews/review/13

Remember me, but o! forget my feet (GamalielRatsey), Thursday, 29 April 2010 11:52 (fourteen years ago) link

I want to get hold of Male Fantasies, as the link says its a study of Freikorps literature.

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 29 April 2010 17:34 (fourteen years ago) link

one year passes...

can anyone recommend a good book on the french revolution?

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 9 March 2012 00:47 (twelve years ago) link

really want to read the carlyle book but i'm guessing it's good to be well-informed on all those names first.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 9 March 2012 01:35 (twelve years ago) link

I like William Doyle's The Oxford History of the French Revolution. It's dense, but it seemed comprehensive.

Träumerei, Friday, 9 March 2012 01:47 (twelve years ago) link

thanks! i'll check it out.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Saturday, 10 March 2012 06:04 (twelve years ago) link

despite his subsequent ascension to television historian status, simon schama's 'citizens' is pretty grebt

mookieproof, Saturday, 10 March 2012 06:08 (twelve years ago) link

Xenophon's account of his own exciting adventures is good fun (and very easy to read in Greek), although it might not count as history in the strictest sense (despite being an essentially true account of actual events).
― DV (dirtyvicar), Friday, April 30, 2004 2:50 PM (7 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Been meaning to read this for years, since hearing it was what Walter Hill's The Warriors was based on. Stilll not got around to it.

Stevolende, Saturday, 10 March 2012 08:35 (twelve years ago) link

twelve years pass...

recommend me history books that are focused on how normal people lived their lives at certain times in history, not about important events that happened over a span of time

na (NA), Tuesday, 27 August 2024 16:35 (two weeks ago) link

e.g. i quite enjoyed this: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/15793575-the-faithful-executioner

na (NA), Tuesday, 27 August 2024 16:36 (two weeks ago) link

that's a tough assignment. they tend to be written by academic types and the ones I've picked up here and there all seem to hover above the subject from too great a height. in the process they lose most of the human detail and definition that makes life come alive and become tedious reads.

I've had better success by reading books that were contemporary to the period. fiction or non-fiction works. no matter what the authors were writing about they can't help but include glimpses of the commonplace details of their era. it's taking the long way around, but the reading experience is pleasanter.

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Tuesday, 27 August 2024 16:52 (two weeks ago) link

I liked The Blazing World by Jonathan Healey a lot. It is a narrative history of the English C17th (Stuarts, Civil War, Restoration, Glorious Revolution) but it's from a social history background and goes heavy on what normal people were up to, how the shit affected them, what's going on in villages way out of the way. Was v impressed at it pulling that off - readable narrative of the complicated Big Politics stitched with ground-level stuff, good local anecdote etc.

woof, Tuesday, 27 August 2024 16:54 (two weeks ago) link

like a lot of history of the period just rolls through riots and mob action with disinterest or disdain where Healey seems on the side of - or at least very sympathetically interested in - the fucked-off & fucked-over, while being neither dry (ahem C Hill) nor digger-fixated romantic.

woof, Tuesday, 27 August 2024 17:24 (two weeks ago) link

Peter Linebaugh and Marcus Rediker have written a lot of worthwhile history 'from below'. Linebaugh's London Hanged, Rediker's Slave Ship, and the pair's Many-Headed Hydra are all excellent. All academic but accessible.

Stasiland by Anna Funder is good for more recent history.

salsa shark, Tuesday, 27 August 2024 19:41 (two weeks ago) link

...And having scrolled through the thread now I can see I recommended one of these several years ago and my old pal schlump already mentioned Stasiland. Sorry for repetition!

salsa shark, Tuesday, 27 August 2024 19:44 (two weeks ago) link

https://www.amazon.com/Watches-Night-Nocturnal-1820-1930-Historical/dp/022626954X

https://f.media-amazon.com/images/I/71WsErSqlML._SL1280_.jpg

Before skyscrapers and streetlights glowed at all hours, American cities fell into inky blackness with each setting of the sun. But over the course of the nineteenth and early twentieth century, new technologies began to light up streets, sidewalks, buildings, and public spaces. Peter C. Baldwin’s evocative book depicts the changing experience of the urban night over this period, visiting a host of actors—scavengers, newsboys, and mashers alike—in the nocturnal city.

Baldwin examines work, crime, transportation, and leisure as he moves through the gaslight era, exploring the spread of modern police forces and the emergence of late-night entertainment, to the era of electricity, when social campaigns sought to remove women and children from public areas at night. While many people celebrated the transition from darkness to light as the arrival of twenty-four hours of daytime, Baldwin shows that certain social patterns remained, including the danger of street crime and the skewed gender profile of night work. Sweeping us from concert halls and brothels to streetcars and industrial forges, In the Watches of the Night is an illuminating study of a vital era in American urban history.

omar little, Tuesday, 27 August 2024 19:46 (two weeks ago) link

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1066335.Ploesti

PVMIC, but I found this in a library once and blew through it in no time. It’s fun, not nearly as dry as yr average mil hist and the raid it covers hasn’t been beaten to death elsewhere.

trm (tombotomod), Tuesday, 27 August 2024 20:10 (two weeks ago) link

Hah! When I was in high school I found a mass market paperback of that on a book carousel in the local Safeway. It was cheap. I bought it and read it. Had forgotten all about it.

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Tuesday, 27 August 2024 20:56 (two weeks ago) link

Omar that looks incredible, like 'would bump straight to the top of my pile of books to read' interesting. thanks for sharing.

salsa shark, Tuesday, 27 August 2024 20:58 (two weeks ago) link

Damn, minimum £24 though :|

salsa shark, Tuesday, 27 August 2024 21:04 (two weeks ago) link

David Graeber’s The Dawn of Everything is everything I need from a history book.

https://www.akpress.org/the-dawn-of-everything.html

avoid boring people, Tuesday, 27 August 2024 21:54 (two weeks ago) link

Was it Alfred that recommended Mark Kurlansky 1968? It was really good.

Xp - salsa shark … I missed this thread first time around so ty

sarahell, Wednesday, 28 August 2024 15:21 (two weeks ago) link

NA if you don't know it Emmanuel Le Roy Ladurie's Montaillou would fit your bill

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montaillou_(book)

glumdalclitch, Wednesday, 28 August 2024 15:55 (two weeks ago) link

Omar that looks incredible, like 'would bump straight to the top of my pile of books to read' interesting. thanks for sharing.

― salsa shark

yeah there's a kind of fascinating subgenre of books covering that same topic, there's another good one by A. Roger Ekirch which digs into that.

https://www.amazon.com/At-Days-Close-Night-Times/dp/0393329011

omar little, Wednesday, 28 August 2024 16:18 (two weeks ago) link

thanks for the recommendations!

na (NA), Wednesday, 28 August 2024 17:56 (two weeks ago) link

seconding montaillou, fun book

flopson, Thursday, 29 August 2024 14:46 (two weeks ago) link

Ok, so this is super specific, but: anyone know of a good book about the Italian community in the UK? Such a huge part of the 50's and 60's judging by pop culture, nowafaict assimilated to the point of not being noticeable.

Daniel_Rf, Monday, 9 September 2024 10:34 (five days ago) link


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