Tell Me About Harry Mathews

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I'm scared of search breaking everything these days, so sorry if this has been done before.

Well, I'm a huge fan of Oulipo, but don't really know much about Harry Mathews. Is he any good? What books are best? Does he fit in with people like Perec?

emil.y (emil.y), Friday, 5 January 2007 20:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I have one word for you: Cigarettes.

The Redd And The Blecch (Ken L), Friday, 5 January 2007 20:08 (seventeen years ago) link

which is an oulipan novel in which no one has yet figured out what the constraint is, i believe.

which is the other cigarette-focussed oulipo novel?

tom west (thomp), Friday, 5 January 2007 21:21 (seventeen years ago) link

Mathews is superb, and completely compatible with Perec -- they have similar senses of humor, and translated each other. I happily discovered Perec via Mathews. Cigarettes is perhaps my least favorite. Its constraint has to do with each pair of characters interacting in sequence, I think.

My top six picks might be: The Conversions, Tlooth, Odradek Stadium, The Human Country, Armenian Papers, My Life in CIA.

Paul Eater (eater), Friday, 5 January 2007 22:19 (seventeen years ago) link

The commas in that last sentence were each painstakingly romanized for your pleasure.

Paul Eater (eater), Friday, 5 January 2007 22:21 (seventeen years ago) link

I have read none of the books mentioned so far, except I started Odradek, but didn't get far in it.

I was surprised at how good Twenty Lines A Day was. Selected Declarations of Dependence wasn't nearly as good as I hoped. The Orchard, about Perec, is nice.

That Singular Pleasures hasn't been mentioned yet is something of a travesty. One of the most beautiful books about masturbation imaginable.

Everyone has had nice things to say about My Life In CIA, why not you too?

Casuistry (Chris P), Saturday, 6 January 2007 09:11 (seventeen years ago) link

I adored The Journalist and Tlooth is a riot. There are some great eye-rhyming sonnets he wrote knocking about in one of the oulipo compendia, but I forget which.

which is the other cigarette-focussed oulipo novel?

Richard Beard's x20?

Matt (Matt), Sunday, 7 January 2007 08:52 (seventeen years ago) link

The important thing to mention about Cigarettes is probably that -- unlike the bulk of other Mathews I've read -- it reads like a much more conventional novel, and is actually really affecting and engaging on that level. It's one of my favorite novels, I think.

nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 8 January 2007 23:38 (seventeen years ago) link

Ha, nabisco, I've been trying to think of a non-confrontational way to say the reason I liked Cigarettes the best and Paul liked it the least was that it was the most conventional of his novels.

Actually, we are overlooking a big contribution of his at the other end of the specturm: his work as co-editor of The Oulipo Compendium. Which contains a nice little alphabet-based thing often credited to him that I can never actually find inside the book, the one that starts "Hey! Be seedy effigy."

The Redd And The Blecch (Ken L), Tuesday, 9 January 2007 03:21 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, I came to Cigarettes fresh off the exhilarating whimsy heights of the Conversions/Tlooth/Odradek triptych and found it lacking. If it had been at the bottom of a pile of Edmund White instead I would have been much more refreshed by it. It's quite a different Mathews; My Life in CIA I think does the best job of integrating the cleverness and the conventionality.

Paul Eater (eater), Tuesday, 9 January 2007 03:57 (seventeen years ago) link

Hm. I'm a big fan of more 'experimental' (if we must call it such) form, but I think I might start with Cigarettes anyway, as it seems to be the most discussed (plus that way if I don't like it I'll be aware that I can move further into his material, rather than having to bow out).

Also, I wasn't aware that Richard Beard's x20 was meant to be Oulipo. I remember quite liking it at the time, but not being blown away by its form or language.

emil.y (emil.y), Tuesday, 9 January 2007 23:26 (seventeen years ago) link

Crow to Scarecrow:
Hay, be seedy! Effigy! Hate-shy, jaky yellow man, O peek, you are rusty, you've edible, you ex-wise head!

found not under alpha- or homophon- but sequence.

I think I'll reread Cigarettes too since it's been years and it's right here and you are all so full of its merits.

Paul Eater (eater), Tuesday, 9 January 2007 23:55 (seventeen years ago) link

Whilst Beard himself isn't a memmber of OuLiPo (as far as I'm aware), but x20 is constructed to constraints, as Beard explains, quoted in Oulipo Compendium:

The structure of the novel, based on the number 20 encompasses four basic constraints.

1. The novel covers the first 20 days after Gregory Simpson gives up smoking 20 cigarettes a day, each day comprising a chapter.
2. Each chapter has exactly 4000 words, calculated as the number of minutes it would take Simpson to smoke 20 cigarettes a day for 20 days (at ten minutes per cigarette; 10 is also the number of years he has been smoking 20 cigarettes a day).
3. Each chapter is divided into sections: 20 sections in the first chapter, 19 in the second, progressing to 1 section in the last and 20th chapter.
4. The novel contains the same number of words as Simpson has smoked during the ten year period.

As constraints go it's hardly Alphabetical Africa, but they're there, nonetheless.

Matt (Matt), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 09:42 (seventeen years ago) link

i find this a great starting point, a collection of longer prose works publishe by atlas a few years ago: http://www.atlaspress.co.uk/img/anticlassics7.jpg

also seek out the lit. 'zine he published in the early '60s, 'locus solus' -- edited by koch, schuyler and ashbery. they can be found cheaper than you'd think, or could a few years ago. it only lasted three issues but were exceptional and really thick.

Michael J McGonigal (mike mcgonigal), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 12:38 (seventeen years ago) link

can i get the title of that last one because the image is broken? ok thx

tom west (thomp), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 18:00 (seventeen years ago) link

it loaded after i posted that. how odd.

tom west (thomp), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 18:01 (seventeen years ago) link

There were five issues of Locus Solus (published in four volumes).

Paul Eater (eater), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 18:22 (seventeen years ago) link

I am entirely willing to admit that I am too dumb and conventional a reader to have gotten much out of Odradek or The Conversions. Odradek was my own fault for (a) reading on a plane, and (b) being too stubborn to slow down and actually work through the pidgin. The Conversions I did in an armchair, though, and apparently never got a firm enough grip on it to even remember a single thing about its characters, setting, or content.

nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 21:53 (seventeen years ago) link

The Conversions I did in an armchair, though, and apparently never got a firm enough grip on it to even remember a single thing about its characters, setting, or content.

The armchair or the book?

http://www.trendir.com/archives/parri-free-armchair.jpg

Interpreter of dreams predictor of weather (Mr.Que), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 21:56 (seventeen years ago) link

The did. My friend Apparently never got a grip on my did.

nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 22:01 (seventeen years ago) link

I haven't read any Harry Matthews, so if that's a Matthews joke, I don't get it, but it's probably better than my lame joke up there.

Interpreter of dreams predictor of weather (Mr.Que), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 22:02 (seventeen years ago) link

Patience with Odradek pays off (albeit only in Mathews' particular coin, which you may not want): the pidgin becomes easier and easier to read as you get used to its quirky regularities, and as it becomes progressively less distorted throughout the novel.

The Conversions is more what they call a romp. Over and over things are elaborately converted from one form or medium to another. E.g., Grent Wayl's will asks for a batch of small pancakes in the shape of the notes of the score of the music played at his funeral to be cooked and eaten by the mourners.

"Singular Pleasures" happens to be anthologized in The Way Home.

Paul Eater (eater), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 23:25 (seventeen years ago) link

two years pass...

Harry Mathews: Name Your Reasons Why He Is So Bad & Hated

Get Up (I Feel Like Being A) Hamletmachine (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 3 October 2009 00:41 (fourteen years ago) link

I need my own copy of Singular Pleasures!

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 3 October 2009 11:41 (fourteen years ago) link

I need to reread Tlooth

Matt, Wednesday, 14 October 2009 23:46 (fourteen years ago) link

one year passes...

never read his short stories so I picked some up from the library and holy shit Country Cooking from Central France is incredible

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Sunday, 15 May 2011 22:51 (twelve years ago) link

this dude is such a great writer, he seems like such a wonderful loveable piece of shit

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Sunday, 15 May 2011 22:56 (twelve years ago) link

I read the story with like one of those high energy bright eyed but braindead hangovers I sometimes get in a coffee shop this morning and the story just made me like make noises and faces all over the place I hope I didn't look crazy

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Sunday, 15 May 2011 23:00 (twelve years ago) link

haha I can totally picture that. and have done the same thing myself many times (most often with Barthelme stories; most recently with Flaubert's "A Good Heart" or whatever it's called).

bernard snowy, Monday, 16 May 2011 14:28 (twelve years ago) link

found 'singular pleasures' in a back number of some journal and read it. is the book version longer? or is it just gratuitously formatted?

thomp, Tuesday, 17 May 2011 08:14 (twelve years ago) link

five years pass...

:-(

https://www.theparisreview.org/blog/2017/01/25/harry-mathews-1930-2017/

The interview linked within is great and he managed to complete one more novel!

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 26 January 2017 21:10 (seven years ago) link

Cigarettes-ing now, and loving it

I hear from this arsehole again, he's going in the river (James Morrison), Friday, 27 January 2017 00:51 (seven years ago) link

I'm reading _The Conversions_ ... 50 pages in and thoroughly confused and delighted and maybe slightly annoyed. Was tempted to spend some time trying to decipher some of the odder passages, to see if I could figure out what he's doing, but I decided to just push on and see to what extend he reveals it more explicitly later. If not, well, I can always go back!

Rimsky-Koskenkorva (Øystein), Friday, 27 January 2017 01:16 (seven years ago) link

Cigarettes-ing now, and loving it

:)

In Walked Bodhisattva (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 27 January 2017 02:17 (seven years ago) link

I've only read Cigarettes and CIA, keen now to check out some of his shorter writing.

Headphone Jack (seandalai), Friday, 27 January 2017 13:53 (seven years ago) link

i read Tlooth and then Sinking of the Odradek Stadium about 25 years ago, they both had a really big impact but I haven't read anything Oulipian in almost that long. I should revisit Tlooth especially.

his eye is on despair-o (Jon not Jon), Friday, 27 January 2017 15:07 (seven years ago) link


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