cat person

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short stories go viral now

||||||||, Monday, 11 December 2017 10:34 (one year ago) Permalink

lol - indeed!

read it this morning. good story imo. didn't think the ending was great tho.

Bein' Sean Bean (LocalGarda), Monday, 11 December 2017 10:39 (one year ago) Permalink

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/12/11/cat-person

||||||||, Monday, 11 December 2017 10:43 (one year ago) Permalink

https://twitter.com/MenCatPerson

xyzzzz__, Monday, 11 December 2017 11:41 (one year ago) Permalink

An interview with the author:

https://www.newyorker.com/books/this-week-in-fiction/fiction-this-week-kristen-roupenian-2017-12-11

xyzzzz__, Monday, 11 December 2017 11:57 (one year ago) Permalink

I think this is the first time I have ever finished reading a piece of fiction published in The New Yorker #hotTake

xyzzzz__, Monday, 11 December 2017 12:10 (one year ago) Permalink

thurber?!

mark s, Monday, 11 December 2017 12:14 (one year ago) Permalink

nope, never got to one of is cartoons (had to google) - willing to bet his stuff is better than New yorker 'proper' fic.

xyzzzz__, Monday, 11 December 2017 12:22 (one year ago) Permalink

I have thought about picking up some Mavis Gallant after reading a non-fiction piece of hers in the New Yorker (I linked it in the ILE New Yorker thread)

xyzzzz__, Monday, 11 December 2017 12:24 (one year ago) Permalink

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQwmfdkUEAAkBXg.jpg

mark s, Monday, 11 December 2017 12:32 (one year ago) Permalink

Stopped reading halfway through because it seemed like it was headed somewhere uncomfortable.

treeship 2, Monday, 11 December 2017 12:51 (one year ago) Permalink

this discussion has somehow reminded me that my CD-ROM* of the entire new yorker ever -- which i got secondhand for not very much a few years back, for researching its music-writing in the 60s and before -- no longer works on my current mac update

*it might be something more modern than a CD-ROM, this is just a funny way to describe it

mark s, Monday, 11 December 2017 13:03 (one year ago) Permalink

just call me thurberperson

mark s, Monday, 11 December 2017 13:12 (one year ago) Permalink

I have those CDs! Christmas 2K5

treeship 2, Monday, 11 December 2017 13:13 (one year ago) Permalink

the last line is i guess the source of a lot of the virality but i hope this doesn't sound uncharitable to say that it feels a little gimmicky? imo. maybe i'm just jealous of the narrator's awesome and funny and loving support network that hustles her out of bars when she needs it.

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Monday, 11 December 2017 13:14 (one year ago) Permalink

treesh do yrs still work?

mark s, Monday, 11 December 2017 13:20 (one year ago) Permalink

Yeah but I don’t have an optical drive on my current macbook

treeship 2, Monday, 11 December 2017 13:25 (one year ago) Permalink

I agree the last line is gimmicky but sadly not unrealistic. (Indecided to read the rest of it.) I found the story really bleak all around. There was never a genuine connection between the characters — they seemed really lost, over-aware of how they were being perceived. Even withiut the last third of the story it reminded me of why dating is so painful and brings out the worst in people, at least in the casual no-expectations way we do it now. (Not that things wee better before, probably bad in different ways.)

treeship 2, Monday, 11 December 2017 13:29 (one year ago) Permalink

I wasn’t envious about any part of the narrator’s life.

treeship 2, Monday, 11 December 2017 13:33 (one year ago) Permalink

Sorry for typos- walking through penn station bumping into things

treeship 2, Monday, 11 December 2017 13:34 (one year ago) Permalink

i think it'd be more powerful if he didn't text her to call her a whore. that marks him out as slightly more villainous than if they'd just left him as a potential everyman.

i mean i don't know how many men text women to call them "whore" irl - i'm not speculating as to how common it is, but it made it easier, imo, as a man, to read it and think i'm not like him, which i'm not sure is the intention. better if it was more uncomfortable and if it was left to the reader to hang themselves.

Bein' Sean Bean (LocalGarda), Monday, 11 December 2017 13:38 (one year ago) Permalink

yes that's what i was trying to get at

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Monday, 11 December 2017 13:48 (one year ago) Permalink

this story was unengaging bollocks tbh. read some jean rhys

imago, Monday, 11 December 2017 13:48 (one year ago) Permalink

haha

xyzzzz__, Monday, 11 December 2017 13:52 (one year ago) Permalink

*watches the whole internet be engaged in a piece of fiction for a change*

this was most unengaging read some jean rhys

xyzzzz__, Monday, 11 December 2017 13:53 (one year ago) Permalink

Def recommend finishing a Donald Barthelme story fwiw

Haven't read this

sonnet by a wite kid, "On Æolian Grief" (wins), Monday, 11 December 2017 13:55 (one year ago) Permalink

i've read everything

it was poor

mark s, Monday, 11 December 2017 14:02 (one year ago) Permalink

the narrator didn't really feel like a character, just an observer, a receptacle for the narrative. the story's sole purpose appears to be winding up/attacking mras, which is a noble enough cause, but the writing is kind of dull and the whole thing emanates a sort of calculatingly nihilistic dysphoria that brooks neither joy nor horror. nothing is left to chance. and in its obsessive recall of detail it comes off quite superficial

imago, Monday, 11 December 2017 14:04 (one year ago) Permalink

^^^too many adjectives

mark s, Monday, 11 December 2017 14:05 (one year ago) Permalink

there are loads of good ny'er stories, obviously.

i do find it p rare that i enjoy the new ones tho. i actually found this more precise and readable than many of them tho.

Bein' Sean Bean (LocalGarda), Monday, 11 December 2017 14:07 (one year ago) Permalink

tho tho tho

Bein' Sean Bean (LocalGarda), Monday, 11 December 2017 14:07 (one year ago) Permalink

i read it -- i haven't read a short story in the NYer in many years (if ever) and I thought it was haunting and true.

that marks him out as slightly more villainous than if they'd just left him as a potential everyman.
as i read it, he had been sitting there stewing in the bar for a while and had been drinking. i thought it was a sign of what lurks in the heart of everyman and only comes out when he is empowered with a way to send a message and effectively have the last word.

when i was her age, there was no texting but i have no doubt that average "normal" dudes had many uncharitable thoughts about me. ugh this story stung.

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Monday, 11 December 2017 14:08 (one year ago) Permalink

#noteveryman

imago, Monday, 11 December 2017 14:11 (one year ago) Permalink

I am not exactly worried about its quality as a story (lol like I can tell) but it carries a charge, the story does sting for sure. That's a lot than almost any fiction you'd pick up randomly like this.

xyzzzz__, Monday, 11 December 2017 14:14 (one year ago) Permalink

maybe - i dunno tho, i feel like texting someone "whore" and that whole last exchange to me feels kind of psychotic or at least mra/alt right.

i'd say a lot of men's sexism is less overt than that - exposing that, which the piece did a lot along the way, i guess, might be more difficult/interesting.

i just feel it's better when it shows the creepiness of the actually quite "normal" things he does, like the paternalistic behaviour etc, if he's this angry full misogynist creep it has less impact.

that just feels way beyond the pale to me - it suggests all his other off behaviour he is because deep down hes' this awful angry creep, rather than in fact the normal behaviour of an average man.

xpost i think if the story is trying to say "yes all men" then it'd be more powerful if it didn't end the way it does.

Bein' Sean Bean (LocalGarda), Monday, 11 December 2017 14:15 (one year ago) Permalink

xpost to ll

Bein' Sean Bean (LocalGarda), Monday, 11 December 2017 14:15 (one year ago) Permalink

LG otm there I think

imago, Monday, 11 December 2017 14:17 (one year ago) Permalink

The whole thing lacks any ambiguity really though

imago, Monday, 11 December 2017 14:18 (one year ago) Permalink

the narrator didn't really feel like a character, just an observer, a receptacle for the narrative. the story's sole purpose appears to be winding up/attacking mras, which is a noble enough cause, but the writing is kind of dull and the whole thing emanates a sort of calculatingly nihilistic dysphoria that brooks neither joy nor horror. nothing is left to chance. and in its obsessive recall of detail it comes off quite superficial

― imago, Monday, 11 December 2017 14:04 (fourteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Hmmm what else sounds like

remember the lmao (darraghmac), Monday, 11 December 2017 14:20 (one year ago) Permalink

#noteveryman was good tho it were right good

remember the lmao (darraghmac), Monday, 11 December 2017 14:20 (one year ago) Permalink

the narrator literally announces she has told this story different ways before now, how much ambiguity do you want

mark s, Monday, 11 December 2017 14:22 (one year ago) Permalink

(amking my way through the interview now)

re: the last line. Kristen says it was inspired "by a small but nasty encounter I had with a person I met online", later on in the same interview she expresses nervousness in trying to capture a younger person's texts. So maybe all of that explains the crude ending but I liked it -- from where it started to where we got to. All the witticisms and weeks of flirting turning so ugly, to this one word left like that. It didn't stop from the story from hitting a nerve.

Fills enough time before the next time Trump tweets his thing so enjoy it, says I.

xyzzzz__, Monday, 11 December 2017 14:52 (one year ago) Permalink

decent story, i also don't think the last line is in keeping with the rest but i don't mind an attempt to swing for the fences.

call all destroyer, Monday, 11 December 2017 14:58 (one year ago) Permalink

if he's this angry full misogynist creep it has less impact.

he's not -- i think it's supposed to show that if they feel shitty enough, or are drunk enough, or feel rejected enough, even the guy who seems to have it all together could lash out and say something like that. it's not beyond the pale for a drunk lonely pissed off dude to lash out and say something he will likely regret but be unable to retract. in the past, people could just think it. maybe say it to their friends. now they both have to live with him having actually expressed it.

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Monday, 11 December 2017 15:58 (one year ago) Permalink

i guess i just don't believe that is the action of anyone but a particularly angry misogynist.

lashing out maybe, or getting angry - people get angry in dating. but calling someone a whore is like getting into territory where the word "violence" doesn't feel a misuse. to think otherwise i'd have to try to justify him calling her a whore.

Bein' Sean Bean (LocalGarda), Monday, 11 December 2017 16:03 (one year ago) Permalink

i don't think you have to justify it to understand that it's possible for a person who is performatively kind to find that his kindness is not rewarded as he thinks it should be, gets angry, lashes out drunkenly in a way that is disproportionate to the way he feels he was wronged. it did not feel ott to me, though it was an abrupt ending to the story.

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Monday, 11 December 2017 16:12 (one year ago) Permalink

I think the last line would feel over-the-top if it was in isolation but the string of messages before it makes it more credible, imo. Within the context of getting angry/lashing out there are still plenty of guys out there who have no trouble responding like that, doesn't need to be a MRA.

Also don't think this story is supposed to "wind up" anyone, feels like a very weird way to look at it imo.

Daniel_Rf, Monday, 11 December 2017 16:17 (one year ago) Permalink

only a really warped person imo. like it's p much a hate crime, what he does. anyway i guess we won't agree on this - i can't claim to have a full perspective on this story.

xpost

Bein' Sean Bean (LocalGarda), Monday, 11 December 2017 16:22 (one year ago) Permalink

also she basically initiated the relationship based on his apparent (performative) kindness -- that she eventually chose not to pursue further contact with him after their lackluster encounter is another choice she made, one he felt was uncharitable toward him, so he lashed out in anger. It seemed like a conceivable reaction of a man who felt the control had not just been wrestled away from him, but done so by a younger woman -- which is basically totally realistic. Whether or not your average "decent dude" would hurl that word around casually is not really the point. Although personally I don't think it's a stretch.

LG -- even if you believe that "only a warped person" would say/do this, it's a sign of how warped many people (men) are. More than you think!

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Monday, 11 December 2017 16:26 (one year ago) Permalink

seemed totally relatable to me and her perspective seemed valuable. i'm not that guy but i certainly know lots of that guys. it's really weird that people are so uptight about either being that guy or knowing that guy that they have to get all captain-save-a-cat-person on twitter but hey it's 2017 i guess.

Chocolate-covered gummy bears? Not ruling those lil' guys out. (ulysses), Monday, 11 December 2017 16:31 (one year ago) Permalink

the truth is men who view themselves as vulnerable on the dating market are totes capable of winding up with a woman they might view as prettier or better than them in whatever way they categorize these things.

not all of them surely? some men are genuinely irremediable

soref, Thursday, 21 December 2017 19:42 (eleven months ago) Permalink

talking about this story is reminding me of a moment a male acquaintance was complaining that a girl he’d been seeing told him they needed to work on making out better. He was all spluttery, “ I mean, I’ve never gotten any complaints before!” I remember trying to tell him no one’s good at these things in some abstract sense; you’re good with another person; this person likes you and wants to make out with you a whole lot more; enjoy it! he did not see things that way iirc.

horseshoe, Thursday, 21 December 2017 19:44 (eleven months ago) Permalink

/the truth is men who view themselves as vulnerable on the dating market are totes capable of winding up with a woman they might view as prettier or better than them in whatever way they categorize these things./

not all of them surely? some men are genuinely irremediable


of course, but I think the specter of being a loser (read:insufficiently masculine) hangs over interactions between men and women in a way which is damaging to both.

horseshoe, Thursday, 21 December 2017 19:45 (eleven months ago) Permalink

also, selfishly, I feel like I have to get by in a world where a lot of men feel this type of insecurity, and I wish they didn’t because they’d be nicer to me and other women in their lives.

horseshoe, Thursday, 21 December 2017 19:46 (eleven months ago) Permalink

she has sold her debut collection for major moolah

||||||||, Thursday, 21 December 2017 19:48 (eleven months ago) Permalink

his peer group might strike me also as the types of social scenes i am least comfortable with, where men kind of segregate themselves into a men's group or men's corner or whatever, to talk their dude talk. i don't necessarily mean a few male friends going out together, but the types of men who are not friends with women.

i have a friend who refuses to be friends with women, because he feels as though it's impossible, that there's some kind of sexual tension he can't handle. i talk about my female friends and he acts like i'm being unfaithful to my wife (p.s. this man seeks out escorts, i've recently discovered through another friend.)

― omar little, Thursday, December 21, 2017 2:40 PM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah i've had the same experiences, some of my friends and former friends were very much "hanging with the boys" types- i.e. daydrinking and playing xbox and fucking off like children. there was a separation there, as if female friendship was impossible. it was very strange to me. i didn't hear that "i can't be friends with women" sentiment expressed outright but def felt it

flappy bird, Thursday, 21 December 2017 19:51 (eleven months ago) Permalink

i have a friend who refuses to be friends with women, because he feels as though it's impossible, that there's some kind of sexual tension he can't handle. i talk about my female friends and he acts like i'm being unfaithful to my wife (p.s. this man seeks out escorts, i've recently discovered through another friend.)

― omar little, Thursday, December 21, 2017 2:40 PM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

By no means do I mean to judge, but how can a person like this be your friend still? How is that not entirely twisted?!

The Cat Person story and subsequent discussion - mostly here - has been very interesting. I've mostly listened and read. It also has me thinking that I prob come from a place of huge privilege, call it a bubble, but men acting like complete pigs are barely present in my personal life? By which I don't mean it's not happening (it is, way more than I realized, and I can't imagine how completely awful dating must be for women in 2017. I wouldn't wish a man on any woman tbh), but rather how could you stay friends with someone Omar mentioned? How do you not turn your back on those people? You do. You can't validate that behaviour by sticking by someone because you like the same sports team or went to high school together. This aspect baffles me.

You, as a male, have a male friend. He is a pig and/or asshole. How is that not the end of the friendship?

(again Omar, and also Flappy, not meant as a dig on you or your friends, but I don't get how you can (still) be around guys like that. Is it the hope you can change this guy around?)

♫ very clever with maracas.jpg ♫ (Le Bateau Ivre), Thursday, 21 December 2017 20:43 (eleven months ago) Permalink

Because people aren't just pigs and assholes, and if you are kind and say things like "that's not my experience" or "I don't think I'd say that, why do you?" not everyone will respond rudely or argue with you. Change is gradual, and sometimes these attitudes aren't something people are consciously pushing, they're just things that they haven't put any thought into. But yeah, being around people who voice some really backward ideas on occasion can be wearying and you want to take a break or kind of taper off contact for a while.

I think the idea that someone voicing misogynist ideas or mistreating others is something that has to come from men's rights or pick-up artist types is ahistorical. The truth is that a lot of the men writing those articles and selling their idiotic books are in their 30s - 40s and their main complaint is that when they were in their early 20s, fifteen or twenty years ago, they could act like dicks and get dates and now assume that society is wrong, that they don't need to change.

The truth is that most people that were their peers back then did change, or at least changed enough to have families and friends now, and they're not dating -- many of them are married! This particular story, if I were to read some context in, is about a guy who never changed, and probably isn't even self-aware enough to realize it. You don't need someone telling you to act like a dick, you just need to lack the awareness of what you're doing.

mh, Thursday, 21 December 2017 21:45 (eleven months ago) Permalink

It's also part of a reason why a man that age would think going on some dates with a 20 year old would be a good idea -- generally people gain experience as they age and the dating pool of women interested in a man belittling them and showing the wrong kind of interest is much smaller the older you get.

mh, Thursday, 21 December 2017 21:49 (eleven months ago) Permalink

tbf i haven't really seen this fella in a very long time. the "i can't be friends with women" stuff felt like weirdly misguided puritanism, inna pre-Mike Pence stylee. he cast himself as a very moral dude! i mean the reason i haven't seen him for awhile was partially i think because he went through a public and kind of embarrassing divorce and went underground for a bit, then re-emerged acting a bit stranger. i think since last Dec I've seen him once.

and it was subsequent to my last seeing him that i heard about the escort stuff and it completely weirded me out. so when i say "friend" it feels very past tense. i never like to say "ex-friend" at least when there's been no single incident where there was an official break.

omar little, Thursday, 21 December 2017 21:54 (eleven months ago) Permalink

sounds like he can't manage his boner

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 21 December 2017 21:59 (eleven months ago) Permalink

sorry to be crass

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 21 December 2017 21:59 (eleven months ago) Permalink

that's probably the most accurate explanation tbh

he has these unabashed dirtbag pals and i think he's extremely impressionable. but that doesn't give enough credit to his own ability to perhaps not be a dirtbag himself. cocaine and Backpage are really easy to avoid if you want.

omar little, Thursday, 21 December 2017 22:05 (eleven months ago) Permalink

xp maybe!

a lot of men don't have a good framework for how to socially relate to women outside of a relationship. like marriage or a long-term partner gives you the ability to see other women as triangulated in some "not my wife" space and it removes the anxiety, and outside of that framework it's all wonky

I have a friend who has always been kind of off in this way, and his parents definitely gave him a weirdly skewed outlook on the world, but he's changed over time. But he still doesn't have a good understanding of how to define boundaries well -- any woman who's single, even friends, alway live in some "should I be pursuing her" space

mh, Thursday, 21 December 2017 22:06 (eleven months ago) Permalink

regarding this:

It also has me thinking that I prob come from a place of huge privilege, call it a bubble, but men acting like complete pigs are barely present in my personal life?

yeah i don't doubt that your friends are decent but obv lots of men indulge in their worst instincts with some people and front like Mike Pence with others. i know that when I would hang out with him, he never seemed to be anything but a gentleman to the point that my wife considered him like the little brother she never had. she started to get odd vibes around the time i did, i guess.

omar little, Thursday, 21 December 2017 22:10 (eleven months ago) Permalink

Late to it, but he struck me as something of a truth claim for a new kind of detached, affectless bloke - wrecked by isolation and the internet, unable to approach relationships at any kind of real level. I was convinced, when he went to his laptop, that he was going to hook up some tasteful porn. I'm wary of using it as a metaphor, but there was an implication of something like an autistic inability to recognise the existence of another mind: she was a body with an unfortunate attached sentience.

The shard-borne beetle with his drowsy hums (Chinaski), Thursday, 21 December 2017 22:17 (eleven months ago) Permalink

xp maybe!

a lot of men don't have a good framework for how to socially relate to women outside of a relationship. like marriage or a long-term partner gives you the ability to see other women as triangulated in some "not my wife" space and it removes the anxiety, and outside of that framework it's all wonky

I have a friend who has always been kind of off in this way, and his parents definitely gave him a weirdly skewed outlook on the world, but he's changed over time. But he still doesn't have a good understanding of how to define boundaries well -- any woman who's single, even friends, alway live in some "should I be pursuing her" space


all seems true, but isn’t it just a difficulty seeing women as people? relevant to the reality of sexual harassment in the workplace, too: women aren’t workers; they’re for sex.

horseshoe, Thursday, 21 December 2017 22:49 (eleven months ago) Permalink

not sure what you mean by this, if the advance is $1m, she'll probably get $400k now, $300k when she turns in the manuscript, $300k on publication, the money is hers whether she sells a single copy or not, so long as she actually turns in a book

this is correct btw. the only time the advance doesn't get paid in full is if something goes wrong during that three-part process. if the books sees publication she's good for seven figures minus her agent's fee & taxes.

she carries a torch. two torches, actually (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Thursday, 21 December 2017 23:13 (eleven months ago) Permalink

I think a lot of it has to do with the ways you assign value and trust to others, and yourself. Definitely dehumanizing.

mh, Thursday, 21 December 2017 23:13 (eleven months ago) Permalink

This story has stuck with me. As said a millions times, felt unusually real and familiar.

Maybe some significant projection here, but enough elements of Robert are relatable to me, though at a younger age. Mid 20’s, post college, depressed, drinking too much, out of shape, basically given up on finding someone, spent my free time shut up in my house with booze and ~films~. Know the feeling of having someone unexpectedly show interest in you and, almost begrudgingly (because you’re stuck in this fatalistic mentality), deciding to see where it goes. Things progress, you drop your guard (for the first time in years), you start to really like and get excited about this person. Intimacy occurs, both physically and emotionally, you’re OPEN finally. And then... you’re promptly, coldly rejected.

Obv. talking about one specific instance in my life, and it seems so small condensed like that, but it was absolutely devastating and just reaffirmed all of my neurotic self doubts. I didn’t lash out in anger, but if I had gotten a kinda shitty text (sent by the friend in the story) I probably would’ve.

That one little couple-of-weeks relationship was emotionally traumatic enough that it made me re-evaluate my entire lifestyle and way of thinking. I got my shit together, worked on becoming more socialized and self-aware, finally started having normal romantic relationships. Managed to shed that paralyzing fear of rejection. Grew confidence at some point along the way. Came with experience.

Anyway I don’t know where I’m going with this other than to say I have severe embarrassment (and maybe?) empathy for Robert. I don’t excuse all of his behavior, but I know that guy and I don’t see him as a total piece-of-shit sleaze. I see more of a sad, fragile, inexperienced, uhhh... well, loser. I’m about Robert’s age now and I just thank God I had my moment of clarity earlier on.

circa1916, Friday, 22 December 2017 03:08 (eleven months ago) Permalink

good post

marcos, Friday, 22 December 2017 04:06 (eleven months ago) Permalink

yea!

flappy bird, Friday, 22 December 2017 05:12 (eleven months ago) Permalink

going to get a nice big 'from the woman who brought you cat person...' sticker on the cover of this

||||||||, Friday, 22 December 2017 06:55 (eleven months ago) Permalink

imo the male perspective is p much already there. for instance by the end you are as aware of the emotion induced in him by her laugh as you are of the emotion in her that caused it. so is she. having read this version of the story i felt pretty clear on what had happened to both the characters. the reverse however would not be true: he does not know even at the end what she is feeling and a story from his pov would not incorporate hers. huh.
― difficult listening hour, Monday, December 11, 2017 3:03 PM (one week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is such a great post

the ghost of tom, choad (thomp), Friday, 22 December 2017 07:20 (eleven months ago) Permalink

^^^yes excellent post

omar little, Friday, 22 December 2017 16:25 (eleven months ago) Permalink

part of what frustrates me about the conversation surrounding cat people is that people both itt and outside of it have said that this guy is not an aberration; he is and historically has been a very commonly encountered person. not to excuse his behavior, but to mark it as mainstream rather than aberrant. and it doesn't matter how many times you say it, someone still has come along to try to question this assessment. the phrase "believe me" has no weight to it anymore and still in this circumstance, i urge people to believe me. it was, as io put it both "gross" and "banal"

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Friday, 22 December 2017 17:56 (eleven months ago) Permalink

Well said and I agree.

Jeff, Friday, 22 December 2017 18:23 (eleven months ago) Permalink

dunno if anyone's made this comment (and it may be a self evident point) but can i presume the signifier of "cat person" is that he's not the average guy's guy - likes cats, into art movies, ostensibly outspoken about your needs and consent, emotionally hypersensitive - and yet still culpable of all the bad patriarchal bullshit the instant things don't go his way

Chocolate-covered gummy bears? Not ruling those lil' guys out. (ulysses), Friday, 22 December 2017 19:46 (eleven months ago) Permalink

like "cat person" is a sorta less nerdy "m'lady"

Chocolate-covered gummy bears? Not ruling those lil' guys out. (ulysses), Friday, 22 December 2017 19:46 (eleven months ago) Permalink

i thought it was an association w/ "cat lady," he's kinda holed up, life passing him by, internally focused, socially awkward etc.

Mordy, Friday, 22 December 2017 19:52 (eleven months ago) Permalink

holed up, watching art movies, socially awkward, has cats, navel-gazing

please stop negging me

mh, Friday, 22 December 2017 20:21 (eleven months ago) Permalink

thanks all i read a lot of henry james this year

difficult listening hour, Friday, 22 December 2017 20:22 (eleven months ago) Permalink

not sure what you mean by this, if the advance is $1m, she'll probably get $400k now, $300k when she turns in the manuscript, $300k on publication, the money is hers whether she sells a single copy or not, so long as she actually turns in a book

― Guayaquil (eephus!), Thursday, December 21, 2017 2:00 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

according to the press release?

lag∞n, Friday, 22 December 2017 21:22 (eleven months ago) Permalink

Just this week I've gotten press releases from publishers boasting they acquired the rights for her first book for the whole of Scandinavia, Netherlands and France. She's def going placed because of this. (and an advance is an advance, indeed)

♫ very clever with maracas.jpg ♫ (Le Bateau Ivre), Friday, 22 December 2017 21:27 (eleven months ago) Permalink

an advance is an advance, a press release is a press release

lag∞n, Friday, 22 December 2017 21:28 (eleven months ago) Permalink

otm

♫ very clever with maracas.jpg ♫ (Le Bateau Ivre), Friday, 22 December 2017 21:29 (eleven months ago) Permalink

theres a huge incentive to massage these numbers as ppl are extremely titillated by them u get free media coverage and no one in the history of the world has ever actually checked if the $500k she gets when she turns in the manuscript is contingent on like the book having been optioned for tv or some shit, i mean im no expert on the publishing industry obvs but i know they do this in sports and the incentive is obvious AND theres ridiculous nonsensical book deal in the media all the time

lag∞n, Friday, 22 December 2017 21:34 (eleven months ago) Permalink

i mean maybe they just straight up wrote her a check for a cool mili idk if no publicist has ever fudged book deal numbers for coverage before i have a suggestion for u

lag∞n, Friday, 22 December 2017 21:36 (eleven months ago) Permalink

actually, j, my name is jim random house and you are dead wrong about how the biz works, bozo

khat person (jim in vancouver), Friday, 22 December 2017 21:38 (eleven months ago) Permalink

damned owned again

lag∞n, Friday, 22 December 2017 21:38 (eleven months ago) Permalink

cat ppl got racks on racks on racks

Joan Digimon (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 22 December 2017 21:47 (eleven months ago) Permalink

lol xp

♫ very clever with maracas.jpg ♫ (Le Bateau Ivre), Friday, 22 December 2017 21:47 (eleven months ago) Permalink

actually, j,

ayyyyyy

j., Saturday, 23 December 2017 01:48 (eleven months ago) Permalink

re: the title and how it functions in the story- describing someone as a "cat person" is as vague as "people person." it means nothing. it has nothing to do with old "crazy cat lady" idea, i think it's playing off of internet age cat abundance. cats are everywhere. describing himself as a "cat person" in the context of a date reinforces the idea that he's just a boring and very average schmuck. he has nothing to say. he's not quirky or weird and he doesn't even know how to fake it.

flappy bird, Saturday, 23 December 2017 05:18 (eleven months ago) Permalink

I kinda wish there were more specifics about their pre-date conversations. I felt like it was definitely easier from a writer's perspective to just describe the feelings/nature of those conversations, rather than attempt to write the actual witty banter, invented stories, etc. It probably made it read more as universal. But I feel like that would have been a good way to develop the characters. I'm not saying they were total sketches, there was some characterization -- such that it seems weird that people are saying that she is obviously smarter than he is -- but I feel like the sketchiness of the characters makes it easier for us to see them as stereotypes or thinkpiece tropes. Idk maybe that makes the story useful? Maybe thinkpiece tropes prompt more discussion or draw us in more than characters that are more fully-drawn?

Personally, I wasn't the kind of 20 year old college student that had any interest in dating dudes in their 30s, because I couldn't see how I could possibly be seen by them as an equal, and why would I go there with someone who didn't. Not saying that I'm superior, but I don't see that as a point in her favor. I think they are normal, delusional, pathetic people attempting to have a relationship, which tends to make delusional pathetic people of most.

sarahell, Saturday, 23 December 2017 22:06 (eleven months ago) Permalink

but I don't see that as a point in her favor. I think they are normal, delusional, pathetic people attempting to have a relationship

yup

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Sunday, 24 December 2017 01:19 (eleven months ago) Permalink

one month passes...
ten months pass...

almost a year since cat person
where's the "this is where we are a year after cat person" thinkpiece?

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Tuesday, 4 December 2018 15:58 (one week ago) Permalink

it has felt like a very long year

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Tuesday, 4 December 2018 15:58 (one week ago) Permalink

I’m excited for her book

flappy bird, Tuesday, 4 December 2018 16:38 (one week ago) Permalink


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