Elena Ferrante - The Neapolitan Novels

In the last few years there often are articles that will come at or review some kind of work on the gender and its inequalities/where are we at. Not that I've counted. And yes, not feminist theory as such, but here is a recent example:

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2016/08/18/hot-sex-young-girls/

The point stands - if they publish this but then don't extend any courtesy to Ferrante - and there has not been any editorial answer to the anger this has provoked either that I've seen - then something is wrong.

I'd say LRB is very much male London Literary scene for most of the time I've been reading, especially in regards to their coverage of fiction. Just as a thing they don't keep an eye on (but given their reviews on gender they probably should) (ironically enough the latest LRB has two fictional works by women reviewed in it)

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n15/adam-mars-jones/the-love-object

Adam Mars-Jones gave this book by the only female member of Oulipo a bad review in the LRB last year. It was actually pretty convincing to me.

who do you mean then re lrb? i mean yes, they do cover every other amis/mcewan probably -- which seems unnecessary -- but which other novelists/reviewers do you have in mind that fall into that category? adam mars-jones isn't in it very often thankfully; lanchester? mainly does the big stunt pieces now (which i never read bcz i don't think he understands economics AT ALL); andrew o'hagan? i tend to like his journalism i have to say (which again is mainly what he's there for)

maybe i just bleep that kind of stuff out (i probably skip more of the fiction articles than not)

i totally agree there's something wrong w/nyrb publishing the ferrante piece, i just don't think they keep up with gender stuff as well as you seemed to imply

haha i think my mars-jones radar just goes "still an idiot hence not representative of a TYPE" (abd ditto amis/mcewan to be honest) -- the settings on my in-built killfiles are too high to allow me to judge the aggregate content properly :)

To me its the lack of any meaningful fiction coverage in the LRB..a lot of unneccesary booker nominated stuff that I just usually groan at (don't have any names rn as my box of 100+ issues are at my parents'). I'll mostly read for the non-fiction. I am observing the absence of it rather than counting what there is of it.

The Brian Dillon piece on Claire-Louise Bennett was terrific (I think it was his favourite book last year), but they don't do much of that in comparison to the McEwan types.

Their only fiction reviewers I like are Jenny Turner and Michael Hoffmann (just because he is so mad and rude when reviewing the male literary types/has no respect; but its often a performance, and it plays a role for the editors of the LRB against the London literary blah charge)

(Point taken on NYRB, I only read the free articles on the web and only buy the odd issue of the LRB these days)

lrb is definitely terrible at reviewing fiction by women, and at getting women to review anything written by men

lanchester? mainly does the big stunt pieces now (which i never read bcz i don't think he understands economics AT ALL)

i really like Lanchester on economics & finance. what don't you think he understands?

Ditto

Wait, Michael Hoffmann the poet and translator?

xyzzzz, the fact that you think the LRB would run an investigative journalism piece exposing Ferrante's identity makes me think you can't ever have read the LRB.

--- 'Its infested by male London literary scene morons who waste pages on any ink that the likes of McEwan and Amis publish.'

As far as I can recall, they have reviewed the last two Amis and McEwan novels and absolutely trashed them. That takes pages, and ink, but it's probably not welcome to Amis or McEwan, and it doesn't suggest intimacy between those writers and the paper. Nor does it suggest that the reviewers are morons.

I agree with what Local Garda said upthread. No one is defending this outing. All are agreed it's bad. The gender element is overemphasised.

Mark S also correct that feminist theory is hardly the major exhibit in the NYRB. Half their articles are about 'can the Dems retake the Senate this Fall???'

Re: Lanchester (from ) here

I started Whoops! but (again)* didn't get very far -- and some of the reasons Capital is bad (as per this superb thread) also apply. JL seemed to spend a lot of time over-carefully explaining fairly simple things I already understood and then nervelessly sweeping past stuff that really needed dwelling or on getting inside. (I have a close friend who used to be a banker who agrees about this; and talking to him about the sector makes me think that Lanchester's dad's connections and understanding may well not actually give as much purchase on the finance&trading world of the early 00s as you'd expect; that banking had in some key way slipped into a new phase, and that this was what needed exploring…)

*In many ways I am the world's most distractable person when it comes to reading, probably because proofing has been my day-job for such a long time.

"AT ALL" upthread was a bit overstated, yes -- but this^^^is my problem w/lanchester

In fact, the last Amis was trashed by michael hofmann
Xp

Hey, found Michael Hofmann's ever-amazing poem "Marvin Gaye" online
http://www.poetrybyheart.org.uk/poems/marvin-gaye/

along with an interesting blog post about it
http://robmack.blogspot.com/2008/06/14-marvin-gaye-michael-hofmann.html

That poem doesn't seem at all good to me, though the last line has some force.

^vmic

Guess Hofmann views himself primarily as a critic.

As much of a poet/critic/translator.

There has been a lot of interesting fiction - and translations of older fiction - published in the last few years the LRB have not bothered with. Instead they are happily indulging the likes of Amis and McEwan. Yes I know they are bad reviews (I've read the odd one), but why publish at all? That goes for Kundera's last book - its an entertaining review (Hoffmann again) but its such a slight nothing of a book to bother with in the first place. They have no economic considerations to consider so what is this all about?

The NYRB are giving much coverage to the election...given that there is an election on! But there have been one or two pieces discussing the relationship between Hilary and feminism, given the data showing younger women were seemingly casting their votes toward Sanders in the primary season. They constantly provide commentary on women's issues. Its no more or less than class or Wall Street, but the editorial team should be wholly aware of all those issues when that article by this tabloid reporter dropped in and they didn't bat an eyelid. They cover it!

There is a rhetorical aspect to the gender element at play, but given what's happened its fine.

"AT ALL" upthread was a bit overstated, yes -- but this^^^is my problem w/lanchester

― mark s, Wednesday, 19 October 2016 09:20 (nine hours ago) Permalink

so your friend who is a banker confirms your suspicion that he is not good because he explains things you already know..? (lol). also, who is his father? someone important in finance? can't find anything googling

someone on the thread i linked to said they skimmed an interview with JL in which he said his dad was a banker -- that's all the lead i have, it may be nonsense, he may be self-taught

no my friend confirmed that he over-explains the easy stuff and skips past the tricky stuff

basically if someone is not bothering to explore or explain the bits i think need explaining then i stop reading them -- i agree this is not the same as "knowing nothing" but for my purposes it is the same as "not knowing enough", since the bits i need to learn about are the bits not yet being explained properly

i could go back and reread whoops! and report to you exactly what those are but it seems a bit pointless, as you're happy with what you're getting (and seem to be making heavy enough weather of my post)

All good, mate. just thought maybe there was some good dirt on Lanch i didn't know about, and was curious is all. ftr I like him because he is a good elucidator of the simple yet tricky to the uninitiated basics of finance (even though I studied this stuff & should be among the initiated)

All good, mate
Are we talking about Cortázar on this thread too?

re: Lanchester. I probably need Economics explained that way. The problem with the pieces is that it still feels abstract, the need for education in this stuff has never felt greater and Lanchester never feels like its bridging the gap.

I quite like to take economics classes. I know certain branches of Momentum were doing some. Delivery of an understanding of how this stuff works (or when it doesn't and why) sounds like a good battleground. Lanchester is just not in that conversation.

yeah sorry flopson, i was in a foul temper on wed eve and that was leaking out sideways a bit

FYI Ha-Joon Chang's 'Economics - A User's Guide' is a much better primer in that vein than anything by Lanchester.

no my friend confirmed that he over-explains the easy stuff and skips past the tricky stuff

This is OTM.

What would you consider some of the tricky stuff he evades? Most recent Lanch I read was the Bitcoin one and it was great

i have NO idea what you guys are talking about on here now. though you did inadvertently make me go listen to miami bass on youtube the other day:

"I started Whoops! but (again)*..."

Finished. No more will I see the figures I have come to know walking along the stradone and think to myself: "what the hell is a stradone anyway?"

i too am finished and now i'm at a loss. anyone got any good articles about the novels to recommend?

I like Dayna Tortorici's overview of Ferrante's fiction; there's also Ferrante's Paris Review interview.

The second half of the final book feels as long as the rest of them put together. I'm still enjoying it, I've just slowed waaay down after flying through everything else.

How words build up in these incredible inedible edifices, then collapse, and some people start over, some just endure, maybe stash some of the pieces. Also the shuddering implosions and aftershocks of Mid-20th Century, and later, especially in Italy, if only because that's where the characters are born and bred, but also it makes a great example. The narrator Elena/Lenu is maybe afraid of falling into the void within her edifice, her facade, so she's always drawn to, and afraid of Lina/Lila, the magnetic control freak who sees the void in all things, sometimes cynically, sometimes freaking right the fuck out---so much uncertainty---though no doubt the narrator sets herself up for the punchline.

Not saying either of them is right or wrong to feel the way they do (although the narrator also invites our sympathy, and her great frenemy is a badass babe even as a crone). It makes sense, when you know where they're coming from.

Then again, for example, do we have to have an actual literal earthquake in there, even at that point? I mean of course it has consequences and shit, but oh well getting apoilery I guess but who among you are really surprised it's in there, even if you haven't gotten that far. I'll shut up now though.

But Lina/Lila really does try, in her way, to be free, and live life, and deals the only way she can see---kinda cracking my heart some more, thinking about it again without wanting to---damn, girl!

(On AMC by the end of the decade, I bet, and that may be the best way to experience it.)

btw just found a series of podcasts: Radio Ferrante

Might check one or two.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/nov/29/elena-ferrante-writing-again-publisher-says-neopolitan-series-novel

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/jan/18/elena-ferrante-to-become-guardian-weekends-new-columnist

Not sure this is a good idea - Ferrante is someone that (as she says) needs privacy and space ("remove oneself from all forms of social pressure or obligation"). Not sure how turning out pieces on deadline fits into that. Hope I'm wrong.

bought my mom Days of Abandonment for xmas and she loved it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntoN-sDFvZc

I've just started listening to MBF on Audible. Too early to really tell whether it's my thing or not.

I did smile at the scene with the dolls. Give it a go once its out on DVD

Weird! I just started the second book.

Every so often I half bake a theory about how Lena and Lenu are actually the same person, the narrator vocalising different halves of their personality, or Lena writing Lenu as the life she would like to have had, but I don't want to read the books again or go too far down that rabbit hole for fear of ruining these amazing characters for myself.

For real though the second half of the fourth book feels super rushed and would have worked better as a fifth novel in its entirety.

Wondering if the audiobook narrator puts on a comedy italian accent for every mention of the stradone.

why film this

They're popular books, that's why

I've gone back and forth on it, personally, but do I often get 'prestige TV' producers putting big money and talent behind a story about two poor smart girls in Naples growing up dealing with their intellects? No, so I'll take the change of pace even as it'll obviously not represent the book experience

Why not film? Not only is it popular but you can film it. One of her earlier books has already been made into an Italian film.

finished vol 1, sure everyone's already gone over the various ways it's great but she really does such an incredible job of conveying the social logic that underpins the community