Bonfires In The Sky: What Are You Reading, Winter 2021-22?

Pinefox, long story short: Hughes rearranged and cut unflattering sections from Plath's 'Selected' as well as from 'Ariel.' He also admitted to burning parts of other manuscripts and the journals from the last months of her life. All of this was done to protect himself and his own legacy.

If I thought his own work was any good or if he'd displayed any remorse for his actions during his lifetime, I'd cut him some slack, but he never did the latter and I think his work is really conservative tripe.

Nothing in here regarding his editorial role in altering Plath's poetry, but:

What think you of Ted Hughes?

That looks quite a substantial thread, thanks.

This is so old: can't remember if I read some some of Crow beyond excerpts in reviews, but it is or was considered a turning point in his writing, incl. by him:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crow_(poetry)

But this is what puzzled me about Hughes on the Royal Family: why couldn't he see them more clearly? As the flawed, fated people they were -- especially knowing all that he, from life, happened to know?

Forgive me the cynicism, but: I think perhaps he wasn't attempting anything of the sort, seeing the job of poet laureate as one of being sycophantic and glorifying of the Royal Family? And that he was right, in that this was indeed what the Royal Family wanted from him?

TH's poems give the impression that he thinks the UK Royal Family is a glorious institution of mythic proportions, that should be celebrated.

And within that, he doesn't seem to have any problem with celebrating individuals (notably the Queen Mother). He doesn't seem to see much distinction between an institution he thinks absolutely good and the individuals who were, in reality, necessarily more flawed.

Dipping in to Stuart Hall's THE HARD ROAD TO RENEWAL: THATCHERISM AND THE CRISIS OF THE LEFT (1988): impressed anew, and finding it more enjoyable than I'd ever remembered. It's surprising how little Hall's arguments seem dated.

The Inconvenient Indian THomas King
Great book on Native Americans with a focus on Canada where the author hails from I think. I had this recommended to me a few times over eh last couple of years and got sent it for Xmas by my brother.
JUst read a confirmation of the status problem which seems to be intended to reduce the amount of Indians there are of status to minimum so nobody will qualify to be part of the status group that reservations and things are catered to. Similar things seem to be happening to Indians in the US as to who qualifies as a member of a given tribe etc.
I'm now reading a chain of books I've ordered as jnterlibrary loans so this is taking me longer to read than it would have done otherwise. Shame cos it is a great book.

The History of White People Nell Irvin Painter.
Black academic's book on the history of the idea of a white race. I'm just in teh middle of the time when Race Science is showing its hide thoroughly. Just been reading about Ripley and the races of Europe that actually seems to be a rather risible incoherent book on what denotes race that contradicts itself heavily etc but was very popular and seemed to add a scientific sheen to the idea of race. THis Ripley appears to have maintained a reputation until he died .
Very interesting book. Buit again I'm reading like 10 books at the same time so I'm not concentrating on it as heavily as i should be

A Brief History of 7 Killings Marlon James
the novel based on fictional oral statements about the assassination attempt on Bob Marley in 1976. I'm now in 1985 with some of the characters having somewhat moved on and still unpacking who they are etc.
Quite enjoying this. But again taking me months longer to read than I should have done.
Think I will be back for more from the same author though.

White Feminism Koa beck
hawaiian lesbian feminist author tells the story of feminism showing how much of a betrayal of those of non-white status was going on throughout. Just been reading this for the last few days. Think its quite good.

Mande Music Eric Charry
Ethomusicologist tells teh story of the factors leading to the music from the West African peoples. Finding it very interesting after it took me a while to get into it. Seemed a bit dry at first.
Currently on the subject of jelis and the etymology of the idea of griot which appears to be an external term not the one they would call themselves. Actually moved onto the instruments played. Am finding it very interesting though.

Bessie Chris Albertson
biography of blues singer Bessie Smith first published in 1972 and this is an update from over the last couple of decades. Very interesting and had me wanting to listen to her so I picked up one cd of hers. may get another more comprehensive one.
Shame she died when she did did appear she was just about to change her style and return to some level of popularity. This book destroys the myth about her being taken to a white hospital and dying as a result. She was found by a surgeon a while after the accident who happened to be off fishing so was around early in the morning, she was then taken to the black hospital in the area where they did the best to save her for several hours but she was too deep in shock. Story seems to have taken a lot of weight from being repeated by John Hammond in a column he wrote despite having other contradicting information at the time and he comes across as a bit of an a-hole from other things in the book. Destroying the career of Bessie's sometime companion Ruby for one despite promising to help her.

i finished outline, it only took me this long because i read every chapter twice

i am now rereading written on the body by jeanette winterson ;_;

Brad, based on my minuscule internet experience of you, I would recommend one of the last two Gwendoline Rileys

oh wow thank you for the rec!!!

lmao i have actually read gwendoline riley, i made the ebook for the melville house printing of first love, i did think it was very dope and i need to give it a more focused read

Continuing my recent trend of mainly reading things that are a relatively easy reach, I'm already past the midway mark of The Light of Day, Eric Ambler. Apparently this novel formed the basis for the film Topkapi.

It's very well thought out and manages to maintain a consistent veneer of acceptable plausibility while spinning out a very intricate plot about very improbable events. I guess it would generally be called a 'thriller', but it has many elements of a 'puzzle play'.

I read it years ago so am not remembering fully, is it told by the character played by peter Ustinov in the film. Which would indicate a decidedly unreliable narrator.

I think the Light of Day is the name of the jewel that is being stolen from the Topkapi museum

On Stuart Hall: particular essays:

Cold Comfort Farm - on Broadwater Farm, racism and police in the 1980s

No Light at the End of the Tunnel - an outstanding analysis of the state of Thatcherism and the UK in 1986 - stands up as well as anything by anyone

Authoritarian Populism: a reply - entertaining format, to see Hall respond briskly to critics

The book is often compelling. I come back to the fact that it feels - prescient? Not quite that, more that because it was accurate at the time, it's also a good guide to how we got here.

i liked him on It's A Knockout

(i appear to have missed the bit about the child sex offences) 8(

Still stuck in (and very much enjoying) Crossroads.

I didn't know Jennifer Egan had a Good Squad sequel coming out soon: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-Candy-House/Jennifer-Egan/9781476716763. I thought it had a mushy, disappointing ending but the first half was fun; I much preferred Manhattan Beach, which was more satisfyingly trad than Goon Squad was satisfyingly "experimental", whatever that means.

realise that this is far from universal, but I *enjoyed* Goon Squad tho do have a vague recollection that i found the end similarly disappointing. I prefer dissatisfyingly experimental to satisfyingly trad! (I think)

I enjoyed it too ftmp but the last several chapters are really very bad I think - also iirc the stuff about music was all really cringeworthy so it doesn’t bode well that this new one is using “EDM” as some kind of organising principle

I thought she navigated the cringe pretty well, but the sci-fi parts at the end were super parochial, in that way that literary authors often clunk when they try genre writing.

It's maybe not a good sign that the new book is mostly set in the future, but I'll still read it! IMO her best bit of writing is the boys-own-adventure shark attack section of Manhattan Beach.

i think there are far worse chapters in goon squad than the last two. chauvinist failed writer/journalist whose thoughts sprawl off into endless pointless footnotes one is unendurable

a sequel is deeply unpromising lol

If you thought Goon Squad, a thoroughly milquetoast bestseller, was 'experimental,' I might have to find a better adjective to describe the novels that I like to read. Not trying to shame-- I liked Goon Squad well enough-- but it isn't experimental, by any stretch of the imagination.

lmao

Ha, your post made me feel like defensive about the book, even though I basically agree. Egan's always described as "experimental" in profiles, but if so, they're pretty controlled experiments. Perhaps playful is a better word; on the other hand I don't think conventional storytelling and experimentation are mutually exclusive; and perhaps the distinction doesn't matter anyway.

I definitely don't think conventional storytelling and experimentation are mutually exclusive, but I think that a book that amounts to MFA-style formal exercises isn't "experimental," it's merely clever. Goon Squad is certainly that.

Been a long time, but I dimly recall liking most of it well enough, incl. the ending, though maybe because I don't expect that much from the endings of contemporary novels---I remember thinking that the sections weren't crucially related, and even that if I did decide that if some of them were too two-dimensional, I could just roll them overboard, with no detachment necessary.
The New Yorker Science Fiction Issue of several years ago incl. an Egan short story, a stylized thriller, poignant in passing, not mushy. But a much more recent New Yorker story, also science fiction, had some soft spots in its construction, and esp. ending, which bothers me more in shorties. Thinking it might be an excerpt from the new novel, hope not.

The Order Of The Day, Éric Vuillard - Account of the early days of Hitler's rise, mostly centered on the annexation of Austria so far. Written as a series of encounters between statesmen and other notables, which inevitably pushes it into Great Man Theory. Also the occasional outbursts of moral indignation ring a bit hollow - not that Chamberlain and Schuschnigg don't deserve a rinsing of course, but somewhat silly for the author to get so het up at already widely maligned historical figures, especially when the portrayal of Churchill (one character in this play that is still treated as a sacred cow by many) is portrayed entirely as a mischievous imp. The whole project feels very old fashioned for a Goncourt winner, reminds me more of Stefan Zweig than anything else.

He's very good at the darkly comical bits: Ribbentrop extending a social outing with Chamberlain to prevent him from reacting to the invasion of Austria, Exterminating Angel vibes; Austrian villages breathlessly awaiting the arrival of the German army which never comes because they're stuck in a logistical rut.

I couldn't even make it through the first few chapters of
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tITdu1nyHHk

a book that amounts to MFA-style formal exercises isn't "experimental," it's merely clever.

This statement, from poster The Table, may be correct, but it relies on a knowledge of "MFA-style formal exercises", or a consensus about what are "MFA-style formal exercises" and what are ... ... "formal exercises" of a different kind, which might be ... ... "experimental"?

I suspect that poster Table may well be correct in their judgment, but am unsure how one could know without undertaking an MFA course.

Jennifer Egan is probably too old to have done that (60 this year?), so whatever her reason for writing as she did, it was presumably not because an MFA tutor advised her to do it. It could, I suppose, have been because she saw the work of other people who had, indeed, taken such courses?

The question of how one could distinguish between something that was genuinely experimental, and something that wasn't and was merely falsely claimed to be ... seems vexed.

For a writer of brief, difficult, obscure poems to write a fat, salacious blockbuster would be, for them, an 'experimental' gesture. And vice versa. In either case, the writer would have to try out new techniques that were unfamiliar to them.

It could be said that a real experiment only happens when a writer does something of a type that no writer has ever done before, but how often does that happen? How feasible is it?

I fear that the criteria would need to be scaled down a bit from that.

It's likely that there are ways of writing that are coded as 'experimental', and will be accepted as 'experimental' (minimalism, poetry that is fragmented and hard to understand, possibly maximalism also) -- but as such, we may doubt the application of this label. If something is generic then is it experimental?

I think that these questions are rather tricky and the targets are moving.

I daresay this has all been said before, here never mind anywhere else.

let me put it this way, a series of interconnected short stories that constitutes a novel is not "experimental." a chapter written in powerpoint could be construed as an experimental flourish within a deeply typical book

jeeeezus, I didn't think anyone remembered Goon Squad!

i do think the radical is realizable within super traditional forms tho, i like music too much to deny that

It's a marketing category really but that's no less legitimate than any other genre.

I was thinking, a good definition of "experimental fiction" might lean on the word experiment, i.e. be about putting unusual things together without knowing how they're going to react - but that would end up including Pride and Prejudice and Zombies as experimental literature too.

While staying in a yurt with no cell service read Yoko Ogawa's The Memory Police in an evening. Overall I liked it a great deal, with a bit of reservation - i think the placid and simple style works very well, but it does really push against what you might want out of a story - no information of the outside world, or interactions with others who remember, or substantial progress except in a negative direction. It reminded me a bit of Never Let Me Go, both stories living inside a dystopian setting that is almost totally accepted, but I think The Memory Police works better as a enclosed story, while Ishiguro's attempts to engage with the larger world and wrap things up kind of expose how flimsy the whole thing is.

I've started reading A Savage War of Peace: Algeria 1954-1962, Alastair Horne. It looks pretty readable and should fill in a very large gap in my knowledge, because I know almost nothing about this war. It ended when I was seven years old and the hegemonic powers seem determined never to mention it again.

I will note that the British author is clearly a Francophile and his sympathies in that direction do color his tone, even if it doesn't prevent him from trying to collect and describe the facts. My awareness of this tendency helps to neutralize it somewhat. This is an NYRB reprint and was probably added to the catalogue in 2006 as a result of the Iraq War.

I think the word "experimental" in the context of literary criticism may be an example of what Frank Kogan calls a "Superword" in the context of rock-crit, i.e. a word whose primary purpose is to be fought over, like "a flag in a bloody game of Capture the Flag". A word that "will jettison adherents and go skipping on ahead of any possible embodiment". "For the word to be super, not only must people disagree on the ideal, but some people must consciously or unconsciously keep changing what the word or ideal is supposed to designate so the music" - or book, I would add - "is always inadequate to the ideal, even if it would have been adequate to yesterday's version of the ideal."

Penelope Lively's Moon Tiger and Geoffrey Willans/Ronald Searle's Molesworth.

xpost -- Yes, it feels v. much like a sunday supplement/music crit word. Like, "This sounds unusual, and my writing skills aren't sharp enough to describe what it's doing, so I think I'll call it 'experimental'".

And I guess, just as "middlebrow" is a putdown camouflaged as descriptor, calling something "experimental" is a way of self-congratulating one's reading prowess ("I'd like to read something more experimental next time").

The recentish NYer short story is, unfortunately, an excerpt from the book.

Geoffrey Willans/Ronald Searle's Molesworth.

Thomas Hardy - Far from the Madding Crowd
Victor Sebestyen - 1946: The Making of the Modern World
Shirley Hazzard - The Bay off Noon

Emma Dabiri Don't Touch My Hair
Dublin born mixed race author talks about hair and its significance in her life and others. By way of connotations of what being a mixed race girl in teh 90s and earlier meant, do wonder if I ever met her since I was around at the time but would have been a lot older and have had dreads since my own late teens.
But anyway am really enjoying her writing so hope there is more of it to come.

Beginning Theory Peter Barry
Book on literary theory etc taht looked interesting when I was looking through a charity shop earlier. Read the introduction and seems like something I will benefit from reading.

recent reads:

Sabrina Orah Mark - Wild Milk short story collection
Jesse K. Baer - Midwestern Infinity Doctrine
Karel Čapek - War with the Newts
Clarice Lispector - Soulstorm: Stories

currently reading Thomas Bernhard's Correction

Update on Bullet Train: this is a very enjoyable book. At the risk of using an overused term, his writing is cinematic. He's very skilled at maneuvering his characters within the confines of his chosen setting of the Shinkansen. Plus, it's funny AF.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that if it won a Pulitzer, calling a book "experimental" might just not be accurate.

Plenty of people who aren't in their twenties get MFAs, the pinefox, tho it seems like Egan just did the normal Ivy to Cambridge rich kid route.

Yes, I'm sure a range of people get MFAs. My original point about them was that for those many of us who don't have them, we can't really tell what is an "MFA exercise" and what is something else.

GOON SQUAD may not be experimental. But the question of what that word actually, in practice, means, abides. I am inclined to think that posters O. Nate and Chuck Tatum are going along the right lines, on this question.

I tend to agree, too, but when I'm describing a book in a forum like this one, I'm not writing a book review for the LRB or anywhere else. Using the word 'experimental' as shorthand, both here and on ILM, is completely reasonable and not 'lazy' as these posters would so have it.

MFA exercises: play with this wacky formal constraint that readers will find charming and interesting, but don't make it so challenging that you can't get a book deal or sell the story to the New Yorker.