London ILB - FAP?

That’s the term I’ve seen

i guess it is exactly that, but i've become so wary of it as a term that it didn't occur to me. also, even using it with a greater sense of its origin still gives me a strong urge to look at why Ravilious, or rather the impact of Ravilious on me, is *not* that. also, to rephrase slightly a sentence above, this is the bric-a-brac of a *just-past* time, rather than a nostalgic one, so i'd want to exclude notions of longing, confining it even more to its original ontological category. (Nostalgia always making a generational jump or two, socially - in its personal form the jump is climacteric, rather than generational).

(The presence of that last picture above the posts here really doesn't help!)

i was about to write that i'd want to exclude sentiment entirely from the 'haunting' aspect of Ravilious here, but that's clearly absurd. The role of nostalgia and sentiment generally in 20th century pastoral is hard though – it comes back into that painfully complicated set of spaces and vectors and influences in specifically English folk.

also i'm not sure this way of looking at Ravilious does him any favours – I'm hoping for Tim to come along and say 'what utter bollocks, that's not how I see him at all'.

Tell me about this Bernard Cheese...

Illustrator and printmaker. Chapter written by Chloë Cheese.

http://a68.tinypic.com/ra910k.jpg

Inclined to say Hauntology is like Postmodernism -- some interesting materials and ideas, let down by a daft and distracting label.

Good point, pfox.

A few bits and pieces on Fizzles's interesting notes:

Archaeology of abandoned (or near-abandoned) hardware has a couple of contexts, I think. One is the first world war, and I am reminded of Paul Nash's WW1 landscapes. It seems to me that at this point in history, hardware in a landscape has to carry some of that weight.

https://gerryco23.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/paul-nash-sunrise-inverness-copse-1918.jpg

https://gerryco23.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/paul-nash-void-19181.jpg

I'm also reminded of (Eric's son) James Ravilious's photographs of North Devon in the early seventies*, my favourites of which are not the perfect landscapes but the ones where old crap is being used and re-used, put to work in the countryside.

I can't find a pic of the image I'm thinking of but this will do for now.

http://www.jamesravilious.com/photos/31.jpg

My point being that in addition to the painter-friendly contrast of industrial detritus decaying in a rural setting there's a tension between unavoidable WW1 memories and a warmer sense that everything will be put to good use.

Another context for finding apparently incongruous stuff strewn around a landscape is surrealism, of course - I don't know enough to guess whether ER was having fun finding apparently surreal juxtapositions in the real world - a busted bus balancing on barrels! - and rendering them in a more-or-less naturalistic way, but it doesn't seem impossible.

The matter of colour: for me, the starved brush colours are what saves many of his lanscapes (for me) from being too comfortable. Even when his landscapes are rolling hills without the (often-used) wire fences or bric-a-brac, even when the sun's blazing the colour palette means they're never fully luscious.

https://apollo.imgix.net/content/uploads/2017/07/1736.jpg
https://www.theblankcardcompany.co.uk/acatalog/Eric_Ravilious_The_Causeway_Wilthshire_Downs.jpg

These are about as luscious as he gets and even here the summer greens are hardly bursting out at you; for me that always stops these images feeling like smug bucolic little Englandness.

(*Probably due to my personal history of having moved to Devon from the Home Counties as a four year old in the mid seventies, but I find JR's photos from Devon in the 70s far more evocative than old spooky public information films or whatever: at once unchanging but utterly lost and utterly graspable, very haunty.)

FYI, on the way home from Wembley last night I passed through London Bridge and stopped in the Royal Oak. I was relieved to see its lights shining at the end of Tabard Street.

It was quiet. I don't know the owner but he was the old geezer behind the bar. He seemed to be just talking and drinking, not serving. The kitchen was closed.

Listening to others while I finished reading the match programme, and then talking to a West Ham United fan who had also been at Wembley, I gathered that this was nothing less than THE LAST NIGHT of the old Royal Oak - of its ownership, at least. The WHU fan stated that nothing would change in future. I suspect he was just going on a half-baked memory of Harveys' tweet, rather than any more solid and recent assurance.

So if my understanding was correct, one could pop in from today and see a different Royal Oak; or the same Oak under new management. Or will there be a hiatus, a temporary closing of doors? That was not indicated anywhere in the Oak that I saw.

I went back to the Royal Oak last night: a brief reconnaissance mission.

At some level I feared great change; at another I trusted that not much could have changed, not this soon.

The same on the outside. Inside it was busy (c.7pm). The saloon bar was unchanged, the public bar just a bit rearranged.

The old Harvey's pump badges had been replaced. I regret this. It's utterly superficial yet it changes my impression; of the beer as well as the pub.

More to the point, had the beer changed? Sussex Best was still on and one can assume it's the same. Versions of Mild and Old Ale were on I think. Pale Ale, which I had adored in this place, was gone. In its place, Harvey's IPA. IPA is Pale Ale, of course. So is that the same thing? I drank a half, couldn't tell. I suspect it's not quite the same, but a related replacement.

The beer was quite cold.

All the above mostly isn't much to quibble about.

The menu, though, had changed a lot. The old daily special list was gone from the wall; a blackboard was up, but empty. The old regulars menu was gone also.

In their place, what seemed a daily-specialized menu, one page covering starters, mains, sandwiches, desserts. Very limited overall; much, much less choice than before.

The menu included:

sausage & colcannon
steak & red wine pudding with chips
fish & chips
Thai inspired spicy quinoa burger with chips
Ham, egg & chips

It's quite good to see this last item present, as ham, egg & chips was a staple of the old Oak. This menu is ... OK. But it's limited. Overall it gave me the impression that fears - mine if no-one else's - had been realized.

But I suppose that if you go purely for a drink, the whole Oak experience won't be that different.

Thai inspired spicy quinoa burger with chips

Slippery slope.

they shd sub in tapioca and whisk us back to our childhoods

http://www.yeoldeoak.co.uk/imgtransform/yeoldeoakcouk/17_03_14_yoo_jumbo_hotdogs_560g_W211_H350.png

as an ex londoner and ex ilb fapper I appreciate these royal oak status updates, hope they become a regular feature.

ILB fappers who are also HIDDEN LANDSCAPE pledgers who do not yet have their book (= whose addresses i do not yet have) can you please email me to receive same!

( = woof and daniel_rf i believe )

or we can FAP and i can bring them along and save on the postage but the send out is next week

I was going to propose FAP also.

We can ferociously debate Patricia Lockwood and William Empson in person rather than online.

i think we should invite john lanchester put him in the corner and don’t let him go until he’s explained himself. flick peanuts at him etc.

I can mail my address, but a quick FAP at some point would be good

i think we should require him to describe and explain us (also peanuts)

xp excellent :)

Idea: next Thursday 14th for FAP?

yes, that would be the only day i can do until after easter.

i will be attending the bob stanley / chris o'leary Q&A that evening sadly

That is a pity but I am inclined to say we go for next Thu as a chance to test the new Royal Oak as ILB has not done before?

That is a pity but I am inclined to say we go for next Thu as a chance to test the new Royal Oak as ILB has not done before?

woof and daniel: my email is marksink3r at googlemail dot com

I can't come along :-(

dipping into this thread to note that while i hope you have a good time the phrase

Thai inspired spicy quinoa burger with chips

makes me v much glad to not be in england

Turns out I'm busy on Thursday also - there's a small chance I might be able to drop in late doors, which I will if I can.

woof and daniel: i need yr addresses by end today or it will have to be by hand when we next meet :)

(which is not a problem for me but everyone else will get theirs first)

Sent you a mail

got it!

i think this will probably a bad idea for me this thursday. i’m under the weather and absolutely wiped at the moment. so maybe we can wait until we’re the full quire?

Agreed, no FAP this Thursday.

The terrible weather we've been having reminds me we should perhaps do a summer FAP?

I can do next three weeks 20th, 27th, 4th. Not the 11th then all good.

I could do the 20th, can't do the 27th, would prefer the 4th and anything after the 11th is basically science fiction as far as I'm concerned.

that's good bcz the 11th is when i download all yr brains onto a hard drive anyway

You're gonna need a smaller hard drive.

Everybody else ok with the 4th?

it's my mum's 84th birthday so it's good not bad

Not a substitute for anyone else's FAP but a Royal Oak note: I am going for a birthday pint there this Friday 21st June. Please join us.

Still on for Thursday?

I'm in!

I am also.

Oh yeah could you bring your copy of "The Unseen"?

I could and will.

i am also in

this time i will arrive with enthusiastic editor's tales of a very different underground: less hawkwind, more soundsystem-rave-dubstep -- the 'nuum!! hola! (i hate that half-word so much lol)

with important crossover figure youth of killing joke allowing us to posit that dave brock invented hip house

I doubt I'll make this, my (older) sister's down in London because she's going to see Rammstein in Milton Keynes (no, seriously) so I'll probably have to keep her entertained.

I would like to attend this FAP but will definitely not make it till 8pm, perhaps later.

This is good see you then.

Tom D - bring your sister along I am sure we can all entertain.