Heavy Hitters #2: Emily Dickinson v Walt Whitman

and the most popular is the worst

Also as far as the poll goes, what's the point in picking one of these people they both do different things? Why choose

Who do you prefer waterface?

man waterface we're not trying to settle a qn of objective value here, peace out

i think waterface is right that maybe we shouldn't insist that one is terrible and that there can only be one good poet in the world.

re: "could use an editor"—I was thinking (apart from the whole punctuation question) more of the monolithic inaccessibility of Dickinson's oeuvre—been reading Helen Vendler's recent selection of poems+commentaries, which helps somewhat...

... but maybe I would be better served by a volume of selected poems+letters? idk

i think the fact that some of her poems are much more cryptic than others is part of the deal with her. it helps sustain the impression that her work was a private thing that she did for herself... that we are overhearing intimate yet impossibly eloquent thoughts

guys stop ruining this thread.

ILE selects its own society -
Then shuts the door -

heh

What horseshoe said

bd., how is the vendler? i have seen it on a friends desk and thought 'that seems like an excellent book to have' but also thought 'that seems like a book i would open twice'

I bought it and returned it a few days later, only because my library carried it (I own her thin book on Stevens' short poems though lol go figure).

No problems with Dickinson.

re: Whitman. Should he have just left it at the first ed. of Leaves of Grass? Don't know enough about Whitman but is there ever a debate of a fall in quality from one ed. to the nxt?

taught Whitman recently; teaching Dickinson now. my kids are struggling with Dickinson. the other day a kid was like, "she's simple but she's not. it's confusing." that kid otm.

once i went to a 24-hr marathon reading of emily dickinson held at a catholic school, it was kind of like this

― j., Sunday, August 26, 2012 12:43 AM (1 year ago)

srsly, this helped me a bunch. you just get a real good reader who knows D to plow through a bunch in a row so they can ~hear~ it

"she's simple but she's not. it's confusing."

= great writing in one sentencce.

is there ever a debate of a fall in quality from one ed. to the nxt?

― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, March 19, 2014 2:14 PM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Thanks - been reading some Whitman too and you know we should've done a Whitman vs Pessoa thread.

Actually I think Bloom linked Whitman and Pessoa together in his book Genius (along w Lorca, Hart Crane, Cernuda)

(What wd you recommend for someone getting into Pessoa?)

There's only one, right?

the other day a kid was like, "she's simple but she's not. it's confusing."

A+

(What wd you recommend for someone getting into Pessoa?)

For the poetry I turn to this blog sometimes.

There is a Penguin paperbk but I don't like the flow of it.

Way cool. ty xyz

Some more Pessoa poems here, they are wonderful and made my day yesterday:

http://www.asymptotejournal.com/article.php?cat=Poetry&id=32&curr_index=6&curPage=archive

gonna write in

eidolons

at the end of every whitman stanza, feelin just jazzed abt eidolons

a good day to revisit this one:

http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/174748

had never read this one before:

http://www.whitmanarchive.org/published/LG/1891/poems/195

"When Lilacs..." never failed to move my student, especially when I made them read a stanza allowed, row by row. The cumulative effect, with everyone's rhythms -- halting, assured, bad English, excellent English -- made it seem representatively American.

*aloud

eidolons!!

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jan/05/whitman-illuminated-song-of-myself-allen-crawford-review

q to hart crane readers:

does the old complete poems from the 60s edited by brom weber include 'the bridge' complete? i'm having no luck finding out from the internet

I think so. The 1st ed liveright has it and the more recent one I have has it. I also have another stand alone version that has annotations

did any one read the new emily dickinson fragments book? i don't think i voted in this poll but seeing as how she's in my top 3 pantheon of poets i def would've voted for her.

THE LARGEST fire ever known
Occurs each afternoon,

hell yeah https://i.ytimg.com/vi/LKQY9PlWMec/maxresdefault.jpg

holy god emily dickinson is the greatest poet in the universe

What? Not Li Po? Not Francois Villon? Not Szymborska? Not Yeats? Not Tu Fu? Not Dante? Not Homer? Not Catullus? Not Cavafy? Not Marianne Moore? Not Khayyam? Not Chaucer? Not Arnaut Daniel? Not Baudelaire? Not Heine? Not Milton? Not Po Chu-I?

Why didn't I get the memo?

i do feel that she manages to out-ironise every poet who ever wrote

did empson ever write about her? cos he would have feasted on her lines.

i do feel that she manages to out-ironise every poet who ever wrote

I must disagree.

The Heart asks Pleasure – first –
And then – Excuse from Pain –
And then – those little Anodynes
That deaden suffering –

And then – to go to sleep –
And then – if it should be
The will of the Inquisitor
The privilege to die –

that poem is funny though. it's "true" at one level, but it's also a deliberately absurd reduction of human experience. her poems are full of these kinds of moments:

Surgeons must be careful
When they take the knife !
Underneath their fine incisions
Stirs the culprit,--Life!

i also think there is something ironic about phrases like "on her divine majority, intrude no more!" to joyfully embrace misanthropy is a kind of ironic experience, even if the sentiment is meant sincerely. the whole fantasy of emperors jostling for her attention as she closes the "valves of her attention like stone." it's fun.

What I mean is - her tone, while perfectly sincere when it's talking about a religious concept or a moral idea, is also qualified by numerous ironies. One of those being that she is aware that you, the reader are aware, that her sincerity is partly performed, and her intellectual insight through and past simple ideas and pieties is so great that she is providing several levels of silent meta-commentary on her own framing of the idea in the poem, not merely the idea itself. All this is only to add to the other obvious ironies one feels - that as a woman she shouldn't be writing or thinking this, but has a better grasp than anyone she knows. That her doubt, caution, fear and knowingness are there in the poem, unhidden, but exist with a kind of innocence which she earnestly feels and she earnestly knows has been foisted on her by virtue of her sex. Battles of knowledge, battles of form. The ironies are transcendent, because they cling to the surface of the ground, and yet are able to see all which passes all around. They express complete awareness, and the limitations of expression by one human personality.

the POLL selects its own society

dickinson really is kind of a unique poet -- i can't think of anyone else who writes quite like her.

I'm a common reader of poetry. When you say ironic, I think:

Henry was programmed for happiness.
What happened O, O bloody friends?
Hoho, heehee.

there once was a man from nantucket

What a lovely thread.

yeah i quoted that first whitman bit upthread that aerosmith quoted in a text message and got a <3

http://www.musicboxfilms.com/a-quiet-passion-movies-153.php#overview