Just broadens the palette
― remember the lmao (darraghmac), Saturday, 30 December 2017 16:05 (six years ago) link
i'm pretty sure i agree or at the v least i'd like to believe it's true for my own sake but i'm not 100% convinced. i've met enough ppl who have constraints on their moral consumption who have more refined character than me. i'm pretty vulgar by comparison. nb that discussing refinement/vulgarity in moral terms is a whole other conversation in itself but i do see moral value in refinement fwiw.
― Mordy, Saturday, 30 December 2017 16:11 (six years ago) link
Of course, you can sympathize plenty and then do exactly nothing about it.
I feel sad about the victims of the Kalapana earthquakes in 1975, and the St. Batholomew's Day Massacre, but I didn't do anything about either one. Lots of people felt sad about the 2004 tsunami and Sandy Hook, but haven't done anything about those either.
I think compassion (or empathy or whatever) is an important first step, but there is an argument to be made that to believe a moral judgement is to be disposed to act on it.
― twas in the fleek midwinter (Ye Mad Puffin), Saturday, 30 December 2017 17:24 (six years ago) link
RIP
― remember the lmao (darraghmac), Saturday, 30 December 2017 18:14 (six years ago) link
I'm reading the bloom essay now and there's a lot of fascinating stuff here, though I'm a little skeptical of some of the science he cites regarding the downsides of emotional empathy
― k3vin k., Saturday, 30 December 2017 19:24 (six years ago) link
Well it’s not as if we’re in the midst of a replication crisis in social sciences
― El Tomboto, Saturday, 30 December 2017 19:27 (six years ago) link
though as others have said, the distinction between "cognitive" and "emotional" empathy is not one I'd come across before and seems pretty useful
― k3vin k., Saturday, 30 December 2017 19:28 (six years ago) link
tbf that cuts both ways and i intentionally didn't bring it up above xp
― Mordy, Saturday, 30 December 2017 19:28 (six years ago) link
xp yeah I basically glossed over the couple of paragraphs starting with "in a series of studies using fMRI brain scanning..."
― k3vin k., Saturday, 30 December 2017 19:29 (six years ago) link
I really enjoyed the discussion of psychopathy, though I think bloom elides an important point toward the end of that discussion, when he mentions that
Finally, one decisive test of the low-empathy-makes-bad-people theory would be to study a group of people who lack empathy but also lack the other traits associated with psychopathy. Such individuals do exist. Baron-Cohen notes that people with Asperger syndrome and autism typically have low cognitive empathy—they struggle to understand the minds of others—and have low emotional empathy as well. (As with psychopaths, there is some controversy about whether they are incapable of empathy or choose not to deploy it.) Despite their empathy deficit, such people show no propensity for exploitation and violence. Indeed, they often have strong moral codes and are more likely to be victims of cruelty than perpetrators.
while it may be true that these people are unlikely to engage in manipulative/exploitative antisocial behavior, aggression and other behavioral problems are highly comorbid in this population. I would intuit that this relates in some way to their incapacity for empathy
― k3vin k., Saturday, 30 December 2017 19:50 (six years ago) link
That is not my general experience from 20+ years of working with autistic people. And like everybody working in the field Baron-Cohen's theories are not uncontested.
― a Rambo in curved air (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 30 December 2017 21:56 (six years ago) link
to be clear I was referring not to criminal behavior, but to maladaptive behaviors like tantrums, outbursts, and (mild) aggression, which are very well described
― k3vin k., Sunday, 31 December 2017 00:40 (six years ago) link
children are really bad at two things, among others
1) projecting their actions into the future2) putting themselves in someone else’s shoes
imo teaching these two things is a good thing to do, and critical for helping give kids a moral compass
I feel like this is something that should be done by a child's family or church or girl scout troop, or soccer team, and classroom time shouldn't be spent on teaching them how to act like a decent human being.
― sarahell, Sunday, 31 December 2017 01:37 (six years ago) link
idk, maybe the kids that suck at it can get assigned to some sort of special ed remedial class for "non-asshole studies".
― sarahell, Sunday, 31 December 2017 01:41 (six years ago) link
so personal responsibility, perfect thread for that!
― k3vin k., Sunday, 31 December 2017 01:41 (six years ago) link
well, this is the uncool conservative beliefs thread so
― the ghost of tom, choad (thomp), Sunday, 31 December 2017 01:52 (six years ago) link
Or maybe I'm confused and "empathy" isn't it's own class and it's just something that gets taught alongside other academic material, or as part of P.E. or games period or whatever. I can see how it can work well as part of a history, or civics, or literature curriculum. As its own subject, though, it seems really contrived, and like the "say no to drugs" classes we had to take in the 80s that are now trendy ironic t-shirts sold to millenials. Maybe the next generation will buy empathy/restorative justice t-shirts and wear them ironically.
― sarahell, Sunday, 31 December 2017 01:59 (six years ago) link
child's family or church or girl scout troop, or soccer team,
absolutely! and i would say that ime most students have access to these things, and show up in my class with a lot of emotional intelligence, empathy and a moral compass. but sadly not everyone has access to these things, which is it’s so important for schools to give all students opportunities to participate in interest groups, community service, team sports, mentorship, etc etc to help them learn social skills (including empathy and so on)
― the late great, Sunday, 31 December 2017 02:41 (six years ago) link
xp just to be clear at my school we don’t teach empathy as part of any curriculum, and we don’t have “empathy days” the way we used to have “say no to drugs” days (oddly enough we don’t have “say no to drugs” days either!)
but when students fuck up and do stupid, mean, hurtful shit. Then i have to have one-on-ones with kids, and rather than applying the methods that were used on me as a kid (coercion via threat of punishment) i try to use it as a teachable moment to help them reflect and build cognitive empathy
― the late great, Sunday, 31 December 2017 02:47 (six years ago) link
classroom time shouldn't be spent on teaching them how to act like a decent human being
personally i would rather live in a world of decent illiterates than a world of educated sociopaths so that guides my priorities, ymmv (of course it’s never that black and white)
― the late great, Sunday, 31 December 2017 02:50 (six years ago) link
I feel like this is something that should be done by a child's family or church or girl scout troop, or soccer team,
The kids whose families aren't teaching them this stuff ain't bringing anyone to soccer practice imo
― remember the lmao (darraghmac), Sunday, 31 December 2017 03:01 (six years ago) link
Same
Xp
― Men's Scarehouse - "You're gonna like the way you're shook." (m bison), Sunday, 31 December 2017 03:02 (six years ago) link
TLG otm
― k3vin k., Sunday, 31 December 2017 03:43 (six years ago) link
tlg deserves the 'posting like a decent human being' award for work on this thread
― the ghost of tom, choad (thomp), Sunday, 31 December 2017 11:21 (six years ago) link
Wrong thread for that
― Bitcoin Baja (wins), Sunday, 31 December 2017 11:50 (six years ago) link
Lame as fuck to use this thread as your judgy tickbox of the day tbh.
― remember the lmao (darraghmac), Sunday, 31 December 2017 11:57 (six years ago) link
Any other common venues for sexual abuse been left out there?
― Whiney Houston (Tom D.), Sunday, 31 December 2017 12:00 (six years ago) link
Ha
― remember the lmao (darraghmac), Sunday, 31 December 2017 12:01 (six years ago) link
special ed remedial class for "non-asshole studies"
Which (to stay on topic) most contemporary American conservatives would regard as "liberal reeducation camp for wrongthink"
― twas in the fleek midwinter (Ye Mad Puffin), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:41 (six years ago) link
child's family or church or girl scout troop, or soccer team,Any other common venues for sexual abuse been left out there?― Whiney Houston (Tom D.), Sunday, December 31, 2017 4:00 AM (six hours ago)
― Whiney Houston (Tom D.), Sunday, December 31, 2017 4:00 AM (six hours ago)
what better way to learn empathy than as a victim of pedophilia?
― sarahell, Sunday, 31 December 2017 18:12 (six years ago) link
So really, the gropers are doing the kids a favor. You're welcome.
― sympathy for the tasmanian devil (Ye Mad Puffin), Sunday, 31 December 2017 18:56 (six years ago) link
:-/
― the late great, Sunday, 31 December 2017 19:14 (six years ago) link
xp to thomp
Maybe one useful benchmark for this thread is, "Would Morrissey agree with your post?"
― sarahell, Sunday, 31 December 2017 19:17 (six years ago) link
your posts no itt? probably
― Joan Digimon (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 31 December 2017 19:21 (six years ago) link
i meant the above more or less sincerely
― the ghost of tom, choad (thomp), Sunday, 31 December 2017 19:30 (six years ago) link
:-)
― the late great, Sunday, 31 December 2017 19:38 (six years ago) link
Porn and sex work in general is not empowering, is gross, and is damaging to the workers and consumers, unless they are already total sociopaths
― Mince Pramthwart (James Morrison), Wednesday, 17 January 2018 02:54 (six years ago) link
i have a thread for you
― Chocolate-covered gummy bears? Not ruling those lil' guys out. (ulysses), Wednesday, 17 January 2018 03:12 (six years ago) link
gimme more james morrison
― marcos, Wednesday, 17 January 2018 03:21 (six years ago) link
a friend and a cousin of mine, both in their 30s, died of opioid overdoses in november. i don't see a reason to think that they were victims of anything other than the decisions they made. i feel uncool in this thought.
― Yelploaf, Wednesday, 17 January 2018 03:31 (six years ago) link
I think I'm more conservative in my opinions about people I know than about people in general.
― DJI, Wednesday, 17 January 2018 03:51 (six years ago) link
I saw “call me by your name” and thought it was movingand that the younger actor delivered an incredible performance BUT i also felt that the relationship was inappropriate given the gap in the characters’ ages/life experience.
― treeship 2, Wednesday, 17 January 2018 04:07 (six years ago) link
I understand the kid grew from the experience and that it wasn’t exploitative but still... I think adults should stay away from teenagers.
― treeship 2, Wednesday, 17 January 2018 04:24 (six years ago) link
I’m not against the movie for portraying this relationshio the way it did and I am not even condemning the Oliver character. Maybe it’s just more like... watching it... I realized that if I was Elio’s parent I wouldn’t have been chill with this.
― treeship 2, Wednesday, 17 January 2018 04:31 (six years ago) link
Although apparently Oliver is only supposed to be 24. He seemed way older in the film to me.
― treeship 2, Wednesday, 17 January 2018 04:39 (six years ago) link
suggest a rename to 'aspects of my ignorance i'd rather post about than address'
― ogmor, Wednesday, 17 January 2018 08:47 (six years ago) link
― treeship 2, Tuesday, January 16, 2018
I wouldn't date you either.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 17 January 2018 11:32 (six years ago) link
That's not an uncool conservative belief at any rate, it's something a lot of right-on social justice ppl have brought up to criticize the film with (that and "the book was written by a straight").
― Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 17 January 2018 11:45 (six years ago) link
I've seen the last remark, and it's so absurd that it's beneath contempt.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 17 January 2018 11:46 (six years ago) link