Reveal Your Uncool Conservative Beliefs Here

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
Not all messages are displayed: show all messages (2921 of them)

it's good

mh 😏, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 22:36 (seven years ago) link

any major that has the word "studies" in it is bad

Mordy, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 22:36 (seven years ago) link

maybe not agricultural studies. is that a thing?

Mordy, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 22:37 (seven years ago) link

mh i don't work in a skilled trade

i don't know any skilled trade that would require an associate's?

what i'm saying is if you are a student that wants to study arts/humanities, you would be required to do a trade

Fβ™― Aβ™― (∞), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 22:38 (seven years ago) link

Is creative writing a trade?

Frederik B, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 22:40 (seven years ago) link

Nope it's a hobby

Betsy DeVos Ayes (darraghmac), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 22:41 (seven years ago) link

Pretty much anything creative that you don't get paid an hourly or piece rate for is a a hobby and the fact that the very odd person makes a greater or worse living in a creative field doesn't alter that

Betsy DeVos Ayes (darraghmac), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 22:42 (seven years ago) link

i wish. if somebody'd put a giant inflatable rat in front of my house to get me back on course i'd be productive as all shit

kellyanne amway (remy bean), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 22:42 (seven years ago) link

I have no idea where that is coming from but I'm all for it remy

Betsy DeVos Ayes (darraghmac), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 22:43 (seven years ago) link

re: is writing a trade? i'd welcome a creative work union. (tho was once nearly a wga member)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflatable_rat

kellyanne amway (remy bean), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 22:44 (seven years ago) link

Hourly or piece rat

Betsy DeVos Ayes (darraghmac), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 22:46 (seven years ago) link

rats in the gutter
stars are a looker

Fβ™― Aβ™― (∞), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 22:47 (seven years ago) link

let's see

I have my dad, who got an general associates degree and then ended up working as a floorlayer since it was a family shop, later went into the office to do managerial work/job estimates off blueprints/etc and spoke at a carpenters union national convention a couple years back

my friend was in the machinists union, worked on the floor for some years, and the company pulled him into QA as a QA engineer and is paying for him to finish an engineering degree (he was in college a year or two after high school but dropped out)

I have a bunch of coworkers with high school-aged kids and all of them cite pretty specific fields of study that their kids are pursuing in college? I feel like the "college is creating humanities grads no one will hire" period peaked a while back

mh 😏, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 22:52 (seven years ago) link

unless you're talking about the ivy leagues, those mostly churn out people bound for grad school and business degrees and probably should be nuked

mh 😏, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 22:52 (seven years ago) link

rmde at humanities-shaming

softie (silby), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 22:56 (seven years ago) link

Thread title pointer badly wanted bytimes itt

Betsy DeVos Ayes (darraghmac), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 23:04 (seven years ago) link

mh

i'm going to guess your dad benefited from the high employment rates in the us and how cheap getting a degree was in years past (60s/70s/80s)

your friend in the machinist union had a skill, which is what i'm arguing in favour of -- those that get employer funding for a STEM are seen as remarkably valuable from her/his manager's view, and should be seen as rare, not an answer to high unemployment gap between STEM or engeering vs arts degree holders

that your coworkers' kids cite specific fields of study that they want to pursue in college doesn't mean much. what are they studying? what is their socioeconomic background and where do they live?

the hypothetical trades/arts degree i make reference to would theoretically be 'blind' to socioeconomic status and, to a certain extent, location, because availability of trades degrees would depend on that trades' job availability by the student's graduating year

Fβ™― Aβ™― (∞), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 23:04 (seven years ago) link

i was talking about knowing human people

mh 😏, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 23:08 (seven years ago) link

feel like there's a conflation of college as this aspirational class signifier and college as a requirement for employability that makes "college" both necessary and archaic re: humanities

mh 😏, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 23:17 (seven years ago) link

college should be fun and not useful imo

softie (silby), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 23:28 (seven years ago) link

That is a cool liberal belief and u have an entire site for those

Betsy DeVos Ayes (darraghmac), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 23:30 (seven years ago) link

yeah I tend to think so! but that is a very bourgeois standpoint -- if it was considerably less expensive or state-sponsored, it'd be a good time to find where you really want to go with life

as it is, the money outlay, combined with the immediate debt and societal expectation of return, means the amount of instruction and time spent are some value proposition where we're getting proposals for two years of instruction pounded into you with no time for reflection

why not just join the military

mh 😏, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 23:31 (seven years ago) link

sorry that was an xpost to darragh' fine dismissal

mh 😏, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 23:31 (seven years ago) link

btw that was my real stance
I drive by a billboard every day that now has an ad for the National Guard promising 100% tuition compensation

mh 😏, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 23:32 (seven years ago) link

I would never dismiss silby I am only pointing out stuff

Betsy DeVos Ayes (darraghmac), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 23:33 (seven years ago) link

I meant more dismissing the liberal students to argue in the hallway

mh 😏, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 23:40 (seven years ago) link

Not in the hallway. Nowhere on campus.

Betsy DeVos Ayes (darraghmac), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 23:47 (seven years ago) link

you should honor your parents whether or not they deserve it

Mordy, Friday, 17 February 2017 02:12 (seven years ago) link

Wow

El Tomboto, Friday, 17 February 2017 02:43 (seven years ago) link

there's a pretty wide spread between someone just being a mediocre parent and physical/sexual abusers

mh 😏, Friday, 17 February 2017 02:46 (seven years ago) link

also my parents are horrible at relationship guidance, just like nothing there whatsoever

mh 😏, Friday, 17 February 2017 02:46 (seven years ago) link

Can you make a corollary along the lines of: Parents should love their children unconditionally even when they're being disgraceful little shits?

Oh the pacmanity (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 17 February 2017 02:47 (seven years ago) link

love implies affection or at very least mercy and possibility for forgiveness

honor sounds, in absence of reasons for respect, subjugation

mh 😏, Friday, 17 February 2017 02:50 (seven years ago) link

admittedly it's easier to do when they're deserving of it but it's really more for u than for them.

Mordy, Friday, 17 February 2017 03:04 (seven years ago) link

wow dude

El Tomboto, Friday, 17 February 2017 03:05 (seven years ago) link

you could make such a corollary but interestingly the ten commandments only specifies one direction and not the other. maybe bc it assumes parents will love their children unconditionally (a big ask) or maybe it just doesn't think it's as important.

Mordy, Friday, 17 February 2017 03:05 (seven years ago) link

xpz

Mordy, Friday, 17 February 2017 03:06 (seven years ago) link

tombot don't get too excited (tho i knew i'd get something of that reaction when i first posted) i'm not saying anything that wasn't written on divine tablets

Mordy, Friday, 17 February 2017 03:06 (seven years ago) link

Cases of abuse and extreme neglect are one thing, but in most instances I agree with Mordy. Not much is gained by fixating on one's parents' shortcomings. Also it's mean to make your mediocre parent stew in regret in their waning years because their kid won't talk to them -- a thing I've seen happen.

Treeship, Friday, 17 February 2017 03:09 (seven years ago) link

Can you make a corollary along the lines of: Parents should love their children unconditionally even when they're being disgraceful little shits?

^uncool conservative false equivance of the power dynamic here

sciatica, Friday, 17 February 2017 03:09 (seven years ago) link

and like i'm not going to judge anyone for what they chose to do or what they think they're capable of etc everyone's soul belongs to them and is none of my business and i don't know what struggles other ppl are dealing w/. i just mean it as a general rule and really as a rule for myself since i'm not in the business of making rules for other ppl.

Mordy, Friday, 17 February 2017 03:11 (seven years ago) link

If my daughter stops talking to us shortly after making me a grandpa then I'll know why and I'll respect it.

"Honor" is a crap verb - it maybe has a use when the object is an oath, or flag, but not human beings

El Tomboto, Friday, 17 February 2017 03:20 (seven years ago) link

my thinking is - why of all the things is honoring your parents important enough to include in the 10 commandments. and my thinking on this is that it's bc it's too easy to have disappointing parents and thru your disillusionment with them you come to be become disillusioned w/ so many other things - your family, your community, your faith, your feelings of historical connection to your ancestors - and you become detethered. the law isn't for good parents because it's easy to honor parents who you respect and love. it's really for parents who are /not/ deserving of it, bc that is when you're most at risk. i'm not sure whether you have to force yourself to love them while you're honoring them. surely you can do it and hate them in your head but in some form of subjugation you are really subjugating yourself to a tradition. also i think it's good for self-discipline. also, sometimes i really don't want to do something for my parents but thinking of this as a directive not only makes me do it but i get some satisfaction from it bc i'm not doing it to please them but for myself - to fulfill a directive that i believe is important. nb look if you have the worst parents in the world and you had to get loose from them or they'd destroy you or your soul like i said i'm not judging you at all. hell if you have the most wonderful parents in the world but you cut them out i mean this is your business entirely. i'm just talking about in the most abstract terms how i understand this particular ancient dictum.

Mordy, Friday, 17 February 2017 03:21 (seven years ago) link

In this context I take it to mean 'acknowledge their age and experience,' absent of wisdom. Possibly this interpretation, or even fretting about it, would've been mysterious to Moses and Yahweh.

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 17 February 2017 03:22 (seven years ago) link

lol i got into a big fight once on ilx before about the word 'honor.' i wonder why ppl find it so repulsive. is it that it seems to lend a mystic/spiritual dimension to human relationships and we're not keen to think about our human relationships in these kinds of terms? or that it seems to objectify the person being honored? or that we're just so disgusted by the idea of honor bc it implies honor based on a position but not on action. otoh we honor ppl all the time for good things they've done.

Mordy, Friday, 17 February 2017 03:24 (seven years ago) link

I got no problem w/objectifying people -- some people ask for it.

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 17 February 2017 03:25 (seven years ago) link

also maybe it's important for something similar to the idea expressed in this passage:

The awful, terrible act of his dying was, he could see, reduced by those about him to the level of a casual, unpleasant, and almost indecorous incident (as if someone entered a drawing room defusing an unpleasant odour) and this was done by that very decorum which he had served all his life long. He saw that no one felt for him, because no one even wished to grasp his position. Only Gerasim recognized it and pitied him. And so Ivan Ilych felt at ease only with him. He felt comforted when Gerasim supported his legs (sometimes all night long) and refused to go to bed, saying: β€œDon’t you worry, Ivan Ilych. I’ll get sleep enough later on,” or when he suddenly became familiar and exclaimed: β€œIf you weren’t sick it would be an- other matter, but as it is, why should I grudge a little trouble?” Gerasim alone did not lie; everything showed that he alone understood the facts of the case and did not consider it neces- sary to disguise them, but simply felt sorry for his emaciated and enfeebled master. Once when Ivan Ilych was sending him away he even said straight out: β€œWe shall all of us die, so why should I grudge a little trouble?” β€” expressing the fact that he did not think his work burdensome, because he was doing it for a dying man and hoped someone would do the same for him when his time came.

Mordy, Friday, 17 February 2017 03:27 (seven years ago) link

i read ivan ilych years ago but that stayed w me for a v long time. "he did not think his work burdensome, because he was doing it for a dying man and hoped someone would do the same for him when his time came."

Mordy, Friday, 17 February 2017 03:28 (seven years ago) link

The idea of abstract charity, founded on a shared fiction of community, troubles a lot of people. It's one of the more benevolent parts of Christianity.

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 17 February 2017 03:31 (seven years ago) link

the problem is when "honor" becomes less about respect for knowledge and experience, or accommodating requests from people you love, and obeying the whims of your elders for no reason other than the propagation of legacy. which, in history, is very important because station in life, community prominence, and financial inheritance were all based on continuing a lineage of family

it's a risk-mitigation strategy: the child that does not honor (or is not honored, interestingly) is the black sheep. you're thrust into role of outcast, entrepreneur, or both

mh 😏, Friday, 17 February 2017 03:55 (seven years ago) link


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.