i guess i know gender and sex are different things but i don't think i know what either one of them is according to judith butler
i swear tho that this seemed to me like ubiquitous knowledge when i was in college
― Mordy, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:06 (seven years ago) link
a friend of mine is a prof at the local ivy league institution and is convinced CONVINCED that judith butler has infected the minds of all of his students but, like, unless she has grown in stature in the last fifteen years, i'm not buying it. i was an english major at the same institution and read maybe two things by butler in a theory course.
― jason waterfalls (gbx), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:07 (seven years ago) link
clearly i'm a weirdo tho. if i was drawing conclusions based on my high school experience i'd assume everyone was more or less familiar w/ the works of moshe chaim luzzatto
― Mordy, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:08 (seven years ago) link
at least i am awake enough to realize /that/ was not representative
http://www.themarysue.com/judith-butler-explained-with-cats/
― sarahell, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:08 (seven years ago) link
do you feel like most yeshiva students don't belong there mordy?
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:09 (seven years ago) link
tbh the most widely known and talked-about intellectual at my undergrad institution was samuel huntington
― marcos, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:09 (seven years ago) link
fukuyama too probably. nobody talked about butler and i hung around the most far-left intersectional activists and professors on campus
― marcos, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:11 (seven years ago) link
derrida more popular than butler too among the lefty philosophers i knew
― marcos, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:12 (seven years ago) link
people in the architecture department knew who gilles deleuze was but half the philosophy department had no idea
― mh 😏, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:12 (seven years ago) link
nobody talked about butler and i hung around the most far-left intersectional activists and professors on campus
― marcos, Tuesday, February 14, 2017 2:11 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
that's not accurate actually. i knew one professor who taught feminist philosophy and critical race theory and she mentioned but didnt even assign butler's readings
― marcos, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:13 (seven years ago) link
judith butler is p big with anti-oppressive lesbian social worker types that i know, although many of them did not go to university.
i never heard her discussed in university - i studied mainly 18th century history so the performativity of gender perhaps wasn't germane (gladstone so cis)
― Islamic State of Mind (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:15 (seven years ago) link
my high school class had 14 students and went down to 9 students as some of the students couldn't hack it. of those 9? i think probably at least 8 of them should've been there. you need at least some bodies to produce the one or two major rabbis you want from every graduating class. obv i was a casualty but i like to think i did my small part to keep brisker talmudic traditions alive for another generation.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:19 (seven years ago) link
18-22 year olds should work and enjoy their lives
― flopson, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:20 (seven years ago) link
also i could be wrong that college is wasted on 18-22 year olds. maybe they all just do it twice?
― flopson, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:21 (seven years ago) link
I wish I'd picked up a double major or decided to stretch out another year by tacking a minor or two on, but again, money
― mh 😏, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:24 (seven years ago) link
I mean let me put it this way, I went to an ivy league college at the height of high theory and even I don't REALLY know who she is, i know she wrote a book about cyborgs but I could not tell you one thing about what that book says.
― Guayaquil (eephus!), 14. februar 2017 20:04 (thirteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I think you're thinking of Donna Haraway, who wrote the Cyborg Manifesto, the key book for understanding Jannelle Monae. Judith Butler wrote Gender Trouble, and her key insight relates to performativity, and her book is the key book for understanding Lady Gaga. But both of them pale in significance to Karen Barad, who wrote Meeting the Universe Halfway, which combines gender studies with quantum mechanics, and is the key book for understanding post-cartesian ontology.
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:26 (seven years ago) link
damn i was hoping you'd have a third pop star for Barad
― Mordy, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:27 (seven years ago) link
Camille Paglia is more widely read than any of these
― sarahell, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:28 (seven years ago) link
the key book for understanding Jannelle Monae
...
― mh 😏, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:29 (seven years ago) link
imago said
social clubs in their locales
I instantly thought this:
http://s3.amazonaws.com/quietus_production/images/articles/17532/V_2_Smiths_-quietus_1427661580_crop_550x830.jpg
And then Tom D said
They should all be forming bands
And I loled
― Oh the pacmanity (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:29 (seven years ago) link
this can't possibly be true can it
― Mordy, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:31 (seven years ago) link
i'm not going to argue this as fiercely as deej in the t-shirt thread, but i would be surprised if it wasn't true
― sarahell, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:33 (seven years ago) link
well in my world of pretentious young ppl
― Mordy, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:34 (seven years ago) link
― Mordy, 14. februar 2017 20:27 (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Me too! I thought of just bullshitting and saying 'Grimes', but somehow someone would probably point out that that makes no sense.
Baradian semiotics. Severely underdeveloped.
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:35 (seven years ago) link
almost every non-math or -science classes i took in college mentioned samuel huntington in some way
― marcos, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:45 (seven years ago) link
i didn't hear huntington's name (or bernard lewis') once until after i graduated! and i went to a relatively conservative undergrad institution.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:46 (seven years ago) link
i heard of huntington only after 9/11. i did read fukuyama as an undergrad (on my own initiative) and it was sort of a handy introduction to hegel, iirc.
― ryan, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:53 (seven years ago) link
Marcos when did you work at Hampshire? That was where I attended undergrad (07-11). Heard at least one fellow student of mine use the nickname "Judy Buts"
― softie (silby), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 20:00 (seven years ago) link
I have never heard of Samuel Huntington.
i think, outside of prestigious ivys and their ilk, you can pretty much graduate most colleges without reading any book other than a textbook.
― ryan, Tuesday, February 14, 2017 1:01 PM (fifty-six minutes ago) Bookmark
this isn't true but even if it were, there is a reason why students aren't required to buy a bunch of books outside of their textbooksthey are expensive
you guys are revealing your educational privilege if you don't think there are plenty of non-traditional students who benefit substantially from college. my workplace was recently identified as #1 in the state in helping to raise the socioeconomic status of our students. #1!!
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 20:02 (seven years ago) link
i'm sure in some circumstances some colleges and some college degrees can raise a student's socioeconomic status. i think for many other colleges and many other students they are a trap to stick students with thousands of dollars in debt and, depending on their major, for an education that offers no value in the marketplace.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 20:05 (seven years ago) link
i understand that and yes, that is true SOME of the timebut to make sweeping generalizations is to discredit the very useful hard work SOME people are doing to improve their lives and their families' lives. it's making students like mine even more invisible than they already are. and i rightfully object to that.
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 20:08 (seven years ago) link
― softie (silby), Tuesday, February 14, 2017 3:00 PM (nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
haha i was there from 08-09!!
― marcos, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 20:10 (seven years ago) link
xp let's all endeavor to make un-invisible both those students benefiting from college educations and those trapped by them!
― Mordy, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 20:11 (seven years ago) link
ok let's :)
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 20:13 (seven years ago) link
i'm admittedly a little bitter bc i have an obscene amount of student debt even still. but the light at the end of the tunnel is in sight - i will be absolutely done by 2021 assuming i don't pay them off sooner.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 20:15 (seven years ago) link
I think the extent to which skills that were not (and to some extent, still are not) taught in primary education are now necessary not just for employment but for some level of engagement in social society is underrated.
For every debate we have about whether an academic writer was well-known by humanities majors, there's at least one college student out there who would benefit from a basic reading comprehension course. Some of this need is coming from the failure of public schools to keep up with shifting curriculum and testing requirements while under heavy fire. But a lot of it is the realization that individuals need a lot more career and skill mobility than in previous times.
― mh 😏, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 20:17 (seven years ago) link
we're entering an era of highly resistant diseases and weakening antibiotics with no new ones in the development pipeline - a return to a more sexually conservative culture might not be a bad thing, and might be an inevitability. i just hope it happens in a way that's not perverse, ignorant and misogynistic (i'm not optimistic there)
― goole, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 20:19 (seven years ago) link
why do we need that when we have condoms?
― marcos, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 20:21 (seven years ago) link
sorry i know this is a safe space for uncool conservative opinions
― marcos, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 20:22 (seven years ago) link
if those worked we wouldn't be where we are
― goole, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 20:23 (seven years ago) link
it's gonna be all those senile boomers in retirement communities incubating antibiotic resistant syphilis
― mh 😏, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 20:29 (seven years ago) link
Small world, I went to Amherst around the same time.
― Allen (etaeoe), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 20:34 (seven years ago) link
I have more uncool conservative beliefs than cool liberal ones
they're uncool with self-identifying conservatives too though
― droit au butt (Euler), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 20:36 (seven years ago) link
The Pioneer Valley is the secret center of the universe
― softie (silby), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 20:37 (seven years ago) link
I'm quite sceptical of drawing/painting tablets. Some people can do drawings that look like they were done on paper but a lot of the colour and painted style images just look wrong and ugly to me. But I'd hope you can paint like an old master on them.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 20:42 (seven years ago) link
I think you're thinking of Donna Haraway, who wrote the Cyborg Manifesto,
oops yes I totally am
plus, I never read butler or haraway when i was in college (still haven't) but i did read lol camille paglia in college, shame on me
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 20:42 (seven years ago) link
not to be all uncool radical about this but the textbook racket has got to go. also a half dozen paperback books is about the same price as a massive and needlessly expensive textbook.
back to uncool conservative: higher education in particular needs to involve in-depth at-length seminar-style close reading of gobs of text and not glossy bullet points to be regurgitated on multiple choice tests.
― ryan, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 21:33 (seven years ago) link
btw i like butler fine but really recommend haraway. she's a trip. there's a new book where my former dissertation advisor interviews her that's quite good.
― ryan, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 21:37 (seven years ago) link