xps
― marcos, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 18:59 (seven years ago) link
I got 1 credit for a scrabble class
― iatee, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 18:59 (seven years ago) link
tbf I am very good at scrabble now
xp then somehow my entire educational career i happened to run over and over into the tiny minority of students who knew judith butler's name. maybe i should've hung out w/ the business school kids more.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:00 (seven years ago) link
i think, outside of prestigious ivys and their ilk, you can pretty much graduate most colleges without reading any book other than a textbook.
― ryan, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:01 (seven years ago) link
It's very Mordy to think that the ideas of judith butler have any meaningful influence on anything but a vanishingly small slice of college students
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:03 (seven years ago) link
I read "judith butler" a handful of times just now before finally figuring out she's not the nytimes writer who is a hypocrite because she was for the iraq invasion -- that was judith miller, I think
― mh 😏, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:03 (seven years ago) link
I mean let me put it this way, I went to an ivy league college at the height of high theory and even I don't REALLY know who she is, i know she wrote a book about cyborgs but I could not tell you one thing about what that book says.
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:04 (seven years ago) link
Tbf I lived in NYC and knew a lot of NYU English Lit kids and New School students. I knew more than one person doing a thesis on Foucault. Clearly it was who I was attracting and I got a poor impression from my limited anecdotal experiences.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:05 (seven years ago) link
i guess i know gender and sex are different things but i don't think i know what either one of them is according to judith butler
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:05 (seven years ago) link
i went to an extremely politically active university in DC as an undergrad, no one really read butler except for a few people in philosophy classes. i've worked at five other colleges and universities since then, the only one of these where people likely to read judith butler had a large presence was at hampshire college and even there i doubt 50% knew who judith butler is. i could be wrong though
― marcos, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:05 (seven years ago) link
― ryan, Tuesday, February 14, 2017 2:01 PM (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yea i agree
xp right, i think the absolutely critical point here is that NYU students are in no way shape or form "most college students"
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:06 (seven years ago) link
i swear tho that this seemed to me like ubiquitous knowledge when i was in college
― Mordy, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:06 (seven years ago) link
a friend of mine is a prof at the local ivy league institution and is convinced CONVINCED that judith butler has infected the minds of all of his students but, like, unless she has grown in stature in the last fifteen years, i'm not buying it. i was an english major at the same institution and read maybe two things by butler in a theory course.
― jason waterfalls (gbx), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:07 (seven years ago) link
clearly i'm a weirdo tho. if i was drawing conclusions based on my high school experience i'd assume everyone was more or less familiar w/ the works of moshe chaim luzzatto
― Mordy, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:08 (seven years ago) link
at least i am awake enough to realize /that/ was not representative
http://www.themarysue.com/judith-butler-explained-with-cats/
― sarahell, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:08 (seven years ago) link
do you feel like most yeshiva students don't belong there mordy?
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:09 (seven years ago) link
tbh the most widely known and talked-about intellectual at my undergrad institution was samuel huntington
― marcos, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:09 (seven years ago) link
fukuyama too probably. nobody talked about butler and i hung around the most far-left intersectional activists and professors on campus
― marcos, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:11 (seven years ago) link
derrida more popular than butler too among the lefty philosophers i knew
― marcos, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:12 (seven years ago) link
people in the architecture department knew who gilles deleuze was but half the philosophy department had no idea
― mh 😏, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:12 (seven years ago) link
nobody talked about butler and i hung around the most far-left intersectional activists and professors on campus
― marcos, Tuesday, February 14, 2017 2:11 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
that's not accurate actually. i knew one professor who taught feminist philosophy and critical race theory and she mentioned but didnt even assign butler's readings
― marcos, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:13 (seven years ago) link
judith butler is p big with anti-oppressive lesbian social worker types that i know, although many of them did not go to university.
i never heard her discussed in university - i studied mainly 18th century history so the performativity of gender perhaps wasn't germane (gladstone so cis)
― Islamic State of Mind (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:15 (seven years ago) link
my high school class had 14 students and went down to 9 students as some of the students couldn't hack it. of those 9? i think probably at least 8 of them should've been there. you need at least some bodies to produce the one or two major rabbis you want from every graduating class. obv i was a casualty but i like to think i did my small part to keep brisker talmudic traditions alive for another generation.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:19 (seven years ago) link
18-22 year olds should work and enjoy their lives
― flopson, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:20 (seven years ago) link
also i could be wrong that college is wasted on 18-22 year olds. maybe they all just do it twice?
― flopson, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:21 (seven years ago) link
I wish I'd picked up a double major or decided to stretch out another year by tacking a minor or two on, but again, money
― mh 😏, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:24 (seven years ago) link
― Guayaquil (eephus!), 14. februar 2017 20:04 (thirteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I think you're thinking of Donna Haraway, who wrote the Cyborg Manifesto, the key book for understanding Jannelle Monae. Judith Butler wrote Gender Trouble, and her key insight relates to performativity, and her book is the key book for understanding Lady Gaga. But both of them pale in significance to Karen Barad, who wrote Meeting the Universe Halfway, which combines gender studies with quantum mechanics, and is the key book for understanding post-cartesian ontology.
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:26 (seven years ago) link
damn i was hoping you'd have a third pop star for Barad
― Mordy, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:27 (seven years ago) link
Camille Paglia is more widely read than any of these
― sarahell, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:28 (seven years ago) link
the key book for understanding Jannelle Monae
...
― mh 😏, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:29 (seven years ago) link
imago said
social clubs in their locales
I instantly thought this:
http://s3.amazonaws.com/quietus_production/images/articles/17532/V_2_Smiths_-quietus_1427661580_crop_550x830.jpg
And then Tom D said
They should all be forming bands
And I loled
― Oh the pacmanity (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:29 (seven years ago) link
this can't possibly be true can it
― Mordy, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:31 (seven years ago) link
i'm not going to argue this as fiercely as deej in the t-shirt thread, but i would be surprised if it wasn't true
― sarahell, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:33 (seven years ago) link
well in my world of pretentious young ppl
― Mordy, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:34 (seven years ago) link
― Mordy, 14. februar 2017 20:27 (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Me too! I thought of just bullshitting and saying 'Grimes', but somehow someone would probably point out that that makes no sense.
Baradian semiotics. Severely underdeveloped.
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:35 (seven years ago) link
almost every non-math or -science classes i took in college mentioned samuel huntington in some way
― marcos, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:45 (seven years ago) link
i didn't hear huntington's name (or bernard lewis') once until after i graduated! and i went to a relatively conservative undergrad institution.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:46 (seven years ago) link
i heard of huntington only after 9/11. i did read fukuyama as an undergrad (on my own initiative) and it was sort of a handy introduction to hegel, iirc.
― ryan, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:53 (seven years ago) link
Marcos when did you work at Hampshire? That was where I attended undergrad (07-11). Heard at least one fellow student of mine use the nickname "Judy Buts"
― softie (silby), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 20:00 (seven years ago) link
I have never heard of Samuel Huntington.
― ryan, Tuesday, February 14, 2017 1:01 PM (fifty-six minutes ago) Bookmark
this isn't true but even if it were, there is a reason why students aren't required to buy a bunch of books outside of their textbooksthey are expensive
you guys are revealing your educational privilege if you don't think there are plenty of non-traditional students who benefit substantially from college. my workplace was recently identified as #1 in the state in helping to raise the socioeconomic status of our students. #1!!
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 20:02 (seven years ago) link
i'm sure in some circumstances some colleges and some college degrees can raise a student's socioeconomic status. i think for many other colleges and many other students they are a trap to stick students with thousands of dollars in debt and, depending on their major, for an education that offers no value in the marketplace.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 20:05 (seven years ago) link
i understand that and yes, that is true SOME of the timebut to make sweeping generalizations is to discredit the very useful hard work SOME people are doing to improve their lives and their families' lives. it's making students like mine even more invisible than they already are. and i rightfully object to that.
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 20:08 (seven years ago) link
― softie (silby), Tuesday, February 14, 2017 3:00 PM (nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
haha i was there from 08-09!!
― marcos, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 20:10 (seven years ago) link
xp let's all endeavor to make un-invisible both those students benefiting from college educations and those trapped by them!
― Mordy, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 20:11 (seven years ago) link
ok let's :)
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 20:13 (seven years ago) link
i'm admittedly a little bitter bc i have an obscene amount of student debt even still. but the light at the end of the tunnel is in sight - i will be absolutely done by 2021 assuming i don't pay them off sooner.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 20:15 (seven years ago) link