i don't have any friends who went to private school
― Islamic State of Mind (jim in vancouver), Monday, 6 February 2017 21:16 (seven years ago) link
#classwar
I'm starting to think that people with really good public school experiences are way too few
mine wasn't uniformly good -- we had a couple useless teachers in my elementary that a new principal cleared out, and my middle school had some serious discipline problems until we got a new principal. some sort of common thread, there.
― mh π, Monday, 6 February 2017 21:16 (seven years ago) link
where i grew up my elementary school was i think excellent. the middle school was ok, pretty fun times iirc. high school sucked. i think a lot of it had to do with the football team having like 17 coaches, all of them teachers or staff, all of them being more devoted to the football team than teaching. football is probably, out of all the official activities of high school, the worst thing about high school.
― nomar, Monday, 6 February 2017 21:19 (seven years ago) link
football is a disease and a fascist vanguard and children shouldn't be exposed to it
― softie (silby), Monday, 6 February 2017 21:21 (seven years ago) link
My only experience with public school was university.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 6 February 2017 21:22 (seven years ago) link
Afaict you're paying for it one way or the other either thru private school or thru your expensive mortgage and high school taxes I don't see a huge difference class between private and public school students when we are talking about well funded public schools of the wealthy.
― Mordy, Monday, 6 February 2017 21:22 (seven years ago) link
after high school I realized I hadn't met any gay individuals in 4 years there, and a ton of my ex-classmates came out in the years after. realized when thinking back how toxic the environment was to the gay community back then, it was no accident.
I am guessing it's probably not as bad anymore since the country's acceptance has improved, but I feel like kids that went to other schools than mine had an easier time coming out in high school.
― Neanderthal, Monday, 6 February 2017 21:23 (seven years ago) link
local-tax-base-driven school funding is also unconscionable, in WA it's actually unconstitutional and the state legislature is in contempt of court for taking a million years to deal with it xp
― softie (silby), Monday, 6 February 2017 21:24 (seven years ago) link
xxp yeah, see, that's actually more of a flaw of public schools in practice -- the ones in more affluent areas will have kids that have had the benefits of living in affluent families and parents in that part of the district might spend more time at the school or donate in fundraisers, etc
in theory, funds are allocated by number of students and the needs of students in that area. in a larger city, that's more flat. affluent suburbs, not so much
― mh π, Monday, 6 February 2017 21:26 (seven years ago) link
silby otm, depending on the state/area how school funds are allocated varies and the different factors taken into account are political
there are a number of rural/sparse areas where schools are becoming consolidated and, while larger high schools are somewhat of a norm, the distance and amount of time kids are in transit to go to school becomes yet another factor. so you have student needs, economic disparity, distance to school, facility age and condition, and so many other things vying for priority in funding
― mh π, Monday, 6 February 2017 21:30 (seven years ago) link
I tend to agree that funding schools by locality leads inevitably to educational disparities that mirror economic ones. The antidotes to that involve decoupling education from the local/state level and basically federalizing it.
Which is a topic for "Reveal Your Probably Unachievable Liberal Dreams Here," not "Reveal Your Uncool Conservative Beliefs Here."
― Oh the pacmanity (Ye Mad Puffin), Monday, 6 February 2017 21:59 (seven years ago) link
my belief is that no matter how much school funding you give northern florida, it's not going to do any good
― mh π, Monday, 6 February 2017 22:02 (seven years ago) link
Thanks to one of the most devastating SCOTUS decisions of my lifetime yet no one discusses it: https://www.oyez.org/cases/1972/71-1332
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 6 February 2017 22:03 (seven years ago) link
were you... a baby in 1973? still blame you for not protesting this
― mh π, Monday, 6 February 2017 22:31 (seven years ago) link
I was a zygote, an elegant one.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 6 February 2017 22:43 (seven years ago) link
I was public schooled from pre- through college. Is this really a rare thing?
― Ξα½ΟΞΉΟ, Monday, 6 February 2017 22:51 (seven years ago) link
I was too, all that proves is that a dude who goes to class enough to get Cs can get a college degree
― Neanderthal, Monday, 6 February 2017 22:54 (seven years ago) link
(tbf I went to more like 75% of my classes my last year as opposed to like, 40% the other years)
I went through public schools from preschool through grade 12 and then attended a land grant public university
And I post to ilx
― mh π, Monday, 6 February 2017 23:50 (seven years ago) link
my mom put me in a catholic school in second grade, i'm not entirely sure why other than she was catholic, but i think it was because i got bullied a lot. spoiler alert - it didn't help. high school i went back to public school.
anyway where i grew up got gentrified like five minutes after i was born so i had the option of world-class public schools, which most people don't.
― increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Tuesday, 7 February 2017 00:01 (seven years ago) link
Public/private/charter teacher here. Informed opinion says choice is good, etc., but most charters are profiteering wastelands. And among the charters that are good, many are good /because/ they skim high/low income, ethnic majority/minority students from/to neighborhood publics. IOW some charters good. But many good charters are good because they are re/segregating along the prejudices of the charter's beneficiary population.
― rb (soda), Tuesday, 7 February 2017 01:12 (seven years ago) link
Notwithstanding that, teacher workload in well-resourced public schools is pretty awful, and kept in check only by labor contracts. Charters don't even benefit from those contracts. Non-union teachers are often far less experienced, on the whole less well trained, and burn our more quickly than career educators. Until charters will work w/ unions they're gonna stay (mostly) lower tier.
― rb (soda), Tuesday, 7 February 2017 01:16 (seven years ago) link
and throwing all the special needs kids and behavior issues back into the local PS system
― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 7 February 2017 01:17 (seven years ago) link
I'm 100% public school btw, went to a state university too until I dropped out
my high school also produced a rhodes scholar
― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 7 February 2017 01:31 (seven years ago) link
I live a couple blocks from this high school, went to the city's magnet high school with a couple of the people listed as 99/00 notable alumnihttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Roosevelt_High_School_(Des_Moines)#Notable_alumni
― mh π, Tuesday, 7 February 2017 01:53 (seven years ago) link
i went to public school k-12 and a public university
― example (crΓΌt), Tuesday, 7 February 2017 02:08 (seven years ago) link
same
― Brad C., Tuesday, 7 February 2017 02:11 (seven years ago) link
me 2
― Oh the pacmanity (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 7 February 2017 02:54 (seven years ago) link
My parents were both teachers. Both were reflexively liberal, both believed fervently in public education, and all of us went to public schools PreK-grad.
And yet! My mother taught in Catholic schools most of her career, at least partly because she preferred the behavior of Catholic schoolkids.
My father, in contrast, taught at a military school (oddly, a public magnet), where many of his students ended up because no other place would take them.
I think my daughter's school would be considered a magnet school. I guess? It's public and free but it's apparently very desirable so admission is by lottery. Our district calls it a "county-wide school" (as opposed to the "neighborhood school" where my son goes). She's been there five years and I still don't understand what's different about it.
It's all a vast tapestry.
― Oh the pacmanity (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 7 February 2017 03:07 (seven years ago) link
β The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, February 6, 2017 4:03 PM (five hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i teach in the school district of the plaintiff from this case. this was the first case iirc in which all of nixon's FOUR appointees were on the bench. fuck richard nixon.
and fuck charter schools, fucking parasites.
― if young satchmo don't trumpet i'm gon shoot you (m bison), Tuesday, 7 February 2017 04:06 (seven years ago) link
cass sunstein argues that saisd v. rodriguez was the end of the court's gradual evolution to understand that the constitution guaranteed social and economic rights.
im a gov/econ teacher and last semester i taught the saisd v. rodriguez case alongside its subsequent state court case edgewood v. kirby (plaintiff won, creates the "robin hood" system which texas has jacked with over time)
― if young satchmo don't trumpet i'm gon shoot you (m bison), Tuesday, 7 February 2017 04:13 (seven years ago) link
public school k-12 then "prestigious east coast private university" -- was definitely at a disadvantage there, and the economic disparity of education in America was really clear to me. Had various classes where fellow students discussed false consciousness and Marxism and the evils of WalMart. I was the only one in the class that had a family that shopped at WalMart, that grew up where everyone shopped at WalMart. Loved their WalMart did the citizens of my stupid town.
― sarahell, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 17:34 (seven years ago) link
Most college students shouldn't go to college. Especially humanities students.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 17:38 (seven years ago) link
he may have stopped posting, but his spirit still lives on
― sarahell, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 17:43 (seven years ago) link
lol not my own original belief
― Mordy, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 17:43 (seven years ago) link
we both know this
― sarahell, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 17:44 (seven years ago) link
I teach writing and journalism. Mordy is partly right.
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 17:45 (seven years ago) link
Possibly true in the US, less so in countries with a better cost / quality ratio.
― Bubba H.O.T.A.P.E (ShariVari), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 17:51 (seven years ago) link
Not if ILX is any indication.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 17:52 (seven years ago) link
I am a strong proponent of the fact most people can learn through conversation, classes, etc. and become more informed and more analytical
then again, I remember the guy who was in one of my college literature courses who was dumb as a brick
― mh π, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 17:54 (seven years ago) link
It's not that student writing is terrible; it's that 98 percent of it is an unending storm of mediocrity and received ideas.
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 17:57 (seven years ago) link
I think the problem isn't really 'too many people going to college to goof off and read cool books' the problem is our country hasn't set up its funding and cost control very well. it doesn't really have to be that expensive to let people goof off and read cool books.
― iatee, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 17:59 (seven years ago) link
What else are 18-22 year olds supposed to do with their lives? It isn't like we have the military need for conscription.
― sarahell, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 17:59 (seven years ago) link
play video games? more productive imo than another mildly intelligent bloke misunderstanding foucault passages.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 18:02 (seven years ago) link
neither of these are very productive
― sarahell, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 18:04 (seven years ago) link
no, but video games are cheaper and don't put you into 20 years of debt.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 18:05 (seven years ago) link
if we remove debt from the equation ... also, who will pay the living and upkeep expenses for the video game players?
― sarahell, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 18:08 (seven years ago) link
mildly intelligent bloke misunderstanding foucault passages.
i resemble that remark.
actually here's a conservative opinion: we should have comprehensive "great books" style education in high school. (but my liberal side would insist on quite a bit of diversity in that designation). less "critical thinking" skills (that's for college) more "you have to read this to graduate."
― ryan, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 18:10 (seven years ago) link
college is wasted on 18-22 year olds
― flopson, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 18:14 (seven years ago) link