― David R., Monday, 23 April 2007 14:41 (twelve years ago) link
― Alex in SF, Monday, 23 April 2007 14:53 (twelve years ago) link
― David R., Monday, 23 April 2007 14:54 (twelve years ago) link
― The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall, Monday, 23 April 2007 15:05 (twelve years ago) link
― call all destroyer, Monday, 23 April 2007 19:38 (twelve years ago) link
― The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall, Monday, 23 April 2007 19:41 (twelve years ago) link
― mattbot, Monday, 23 April 2007 19:52 (twelve years ago) link
― bnw, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 23:17 (twelve years ago) link
Me and Mr. T. Thinwall saw a good Jays-Mariners game this aft with a great McGowan-Batista pitching matchup and some late-inning heroics. Not only that, the Jays were dumb enough to do something I never thought I'd ever see -- much like the Yeti or the dark side of the moon, they BATTED OUT OF ORDER. After Aaron Hill hit a bloop double in the 2nd, McLaren came out to talk to the umps with what looked like a lineup card. The discussion went on forever, and of course they don't bother to explain this kind of rule to the live crowd because it's the most complicated rule in baseball.
The 5-6-7-8 hitters were Glaus, Hill, Overbay, Zaun. Instead, Overbay came up in Hill's spot and lined out to left. The Mariners were smart enough to not say anything when Overbay batted, because in that situation the proper batter (Hill) would simply replace Overbay at the plate and resume his count, without any other penalty. Instead, Hill came up and once the Mariners threw him a pitch, it meant that the batter before him (in actuality, not on the lineup card), namely Overbay, had batted legally and nothing could be done about him. That meant Zaun, who follows Overbay, should have been batting at this point. Had the Jays caught their error here and sent Zaun to bat (skipping Hill completely in this run through their lineup) then there would have been no penalty, other than Hill's lost at-bat. But they didn't, so when Hill blooped a double, the Mariners alerted the umps before they pitched to Zaun and Hill was called out for batting in Zaun's spot.
The Mariners knew that they were guaranteed to get outs as long as they didn't pitch to someone batting after someone who batted out of turn. Presumably, the Mariners wouldn't have said anything if Hill had also gotten out (neither out-of-turn guy had gotten on base) and pitched to Zaun, so it would have been funny if the Jays had woken up at that moment, realized what they'd done, and sent the legal batter (Overbay!! ... because pitching to Zaun made Hill legal) to bat for the second time in the inning.
― NoTimeBeforeTime, Saturday, 1 September 2007 23:52 (eleven years ago) link
I don't think they would've sent someone to the plate twice like that would they??? i r confoosed
― The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall, Sunday, 2 September 2007 00:50 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, i don't understand this at all. i was at an orioles-yankees game a few years ago in which the yankees batted out of order (it wasn't announced, i only knew it because i was keeping score and there was a discussion) but nothing really happened--perhaps because the the various batters made outs and the yankees went on to lose?
― mookieproof, Sunday, 2 September 2007 03:55 (eleven years ago) link
Thermo -- *if* Hill and Overbay had batted in reverse order (and both gotten out) and *if* the Mariners had thrown a pitch to Zaun without saying anything to the umps, then Overbay would have been the legal batter in that situation. The rule states that if Player A bats out of turn, then once the defensive team throws a pitch to the next batter (Player B), then Player A becomes a legal batter. The hitting team can then replace Player A with the proper batter at any time during the at-bat -- it makes no difference if that proper batter has already batted in the inning.
Mookieproof -- if two guys bat in reverse order and both hit into outs, then you're right, it's basically a case of "no harm no foul" and the defensive team might choose to do nothing about it (assuming they even noticed something was wrong!). Like I said, the Mariners might only have objected yesterday because Hill reached base when batting out of turn. Most batting out of order situations involve situations like these, where guys bat 1-2-4-3 instead of 1-2-3-4, but the rule book lists a bunch of really fucked up examples though, like 1-6-4-2-3 where multiple guys hit out of order and some of them reach base.
― NoTimeBeforeTime, Monday, 3 September 2007 04:29 (eleven years ago) link
much easier q, not really rule based - i'm at a game right now, and am a little confused. Whenever there's a batter on first base, it seems like someone elwe from his team comes and stands near him, but over the foul line. What's that about?
― toby, Wednesday, 5 September 2007 01:23 (eleven years ago) link
Are you talking about the first base coach? If he's talking to the runner on first between pitches, or just after the runner reached base, he is probably explaining something -- things like the number of outs, ticks in the pitcher's motion, the catcher's tendencies, positioning of the outfielders (and how it relates to the number of bases the runner might be able to advance in the event of a base hit). Or he could just be collecting shin guards and elbow mechanisms -- as a glorified equipment manager. Random stuff like that.
― Andy K, Wednesday, 5 September 2007 01:29 (eleven years ago) link
thanks - that makes perfect sense!
― toby, Wednesday, 5 September 2007 01:55 (eleven years ago) link
actually, he's being largely useless, apart from the hidden-ball trick
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 5 September 2007 02:17 (eleven years ago) link
That meant Zaun, who follows Overbay, should have been batting at this point. Had the Jays caught their error here and sent Zaun to bat (skipping Hill completely in this run through their lineup) then there would have been no penalty, other than Hill's lost at-bat. But they didn't, so when Hill blooped a double, the Mariners alerted the umps before they pitched to Zaun and Hill was called out for batting in Zaun's spot.
I missed this the first time around.
So if I'm understanding this correctly (which I definitely am not), why don't NL teams take advantage of this rule, skip the pitcher every time through the order, and just bat 8 players (7 if Cesar Izturis is on the team)? I'm missing something here.
― mattbot, Wednesday, 5 September 2007 18:27 (eleven years ago) link
Because as soon as the opposing team notices they can notify the umpire and the player who batted out of order is out which if you skip the pitcher would basically be everyone after that point.
― Alex in SF, Wednesday, 5 September 2007 18:41 (eleven years ago) link
Ah, makes sense. I read "lost at-bat" as "not an out."
― mattbot, Wednesday, 5 September 2007 19:33 (eleven years ago) link
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 8 July 2009 19:02 (ten years ago) link
Do those rules differ from actual MLB rules?
― Your heartbeat soun like sasquatch feet (polyphonic), Wednesday, 8 July 2009 19:12 (ten years ago) link
I didn't finish it but I was 0-5 and gave up.
― Batsman (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Wednesday, 8 July 2009 23:35 (ten years ago) link
Infield Fly Rule fun:
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 16 May 2010 18:27 (nine years ago) link
3.09 Players in uniform shall not address or mingle with spectators, nor sit in the standsbefore, during, or after a game. No manager, coach or player shall address any spectatorbefore or during a game. Players of opposing teams shall not fraternize at any time while inuniform.
i can't find the no tv broadcast in the clubhouse rule. what about mobile phone usage? i assume players are barred from tweeting mid-game but not sure where the no phone rules lies. anyone?
― sanskrit, Friday, 18 March 2011 14:29 (eight years ago) link
"Players of opposing teams shall not fraternize at any time while inuniform."
Every 1B is guilty of this, right?
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Friday, 18 March 2011 14:34 (eight years ago) link
also see: warmups before every single game ever.
― call all destroyer, Friday, 18 March 2011 14:38 (eight years ago) link
unless it actually all psy-ops cleverly disguised as idle banter.
― got electrolytes (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Friday, 18 March 2011 14:46 (eight years ago) link
this is a good one -
# R1. Line drive at the first baseman who dives, but can only trap the ball for 'no catch.' R1, believing there is a catch, returns to first. The fielder tags first base and then R1 (who is touching first). Ruling?
1. Both runners were forced to advance during the play, so both runners are out. 2. The batter-runner is out, removing the force against R1, who is safe. 3. R1 is out for interfering with the play by running the wrong direction. The batter-runner is out on the tag of first. Double play. 4. R1 is out as soon as he touches first, because the batter-runner was entitled to the base. The ball is dead, and batter-runner is placed at first.
― 40% chill and 100% negative (Tracer Hand), Friday, 18 March 2011 14:50 (eight years ago) link
fraternization rule due for enforcement when "character" becomes a Hall of Fame issue -- oh, hey!
― Fuck bein' hard, Dr Morbz is complicated (Dr Morbius), Friday, 18 March 2011 14:59 (eight years ago) link
i'd like to see a manager have a scrub pat the back of an elite first baseman and chat it up in a crucial moment then ask that they both get tossed. would never fly with the unwritten code.
my point in asking about television and mobile phones was wondering if there was any legitimate way players could realize a pitcher was tipping his selections via an outside source.. so tweeting during a game might be disallowed but what if they were reading tweets inside the clubhouse.
― sanskrit, Friday, 18 March 2011 15:04 (eight years ago) link
I'm not sure Bud Selig knows how to use the internets, so a rule change about texting/tweeting will probably have to wait until there's a new commish.
I'd forgotten about the batting out of turn game I saw in '07, I mean *completely* forgotten to the extent that I could not believe that my name appeared below those posts. What a crazy rule.
― NoTimeBeforeTime, Friday, 18 March 2011 18:24 (eight years ago) link
tracer what's the answer to that?
― kl0p's son (k3vin k.), Friday, 18 March 2011 18:28 (eight years ago) link
2 makes the most sense to me there but iirc it's actually one of the stranger answers
― ciderpress, Friday, 18 March 2011 18:40 (eight years ago) link
both runners out, no?
― five gone cats from Boston (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, 18 March 2011 18:44 (eight years ago) link
But is it because of 1 or 3?
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Friday, 18 March 2011 18:51 (eight years ago) link
i wouldn't think R1 is out but i could be wrong
― kl0p's son (k3vin k.), Friday, 18 March 2011 19:35 (eight years ago) link
If I am guessing I am guessing 4.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Friday, 18 March 2011 19:48 (eight years ago) link
Mostly cuz I think in this case the runner must advance. Although that's weird because then a runner could avoid a double play by running back to their base so no it must be 1.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Friday, 18 March 2011 19:52 (eight years ago) link
i'm guessing 2 tho it seems too obvious
― kl0p's son (k3vin k.), Friday, 18 March 2011 20:17 (eight years ago) link
I googled it and it is #2 but only cuz the bag got tagged before the runner.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Friday, 18 March 2011 20:30 (eight years ago) link
The correct answer is "b," the batter-runner is out, removing the force against R1, who is safe. The force was removed against R1 when first base was touched because the following runner (the batter-runner) was out. Thus, R1 was not forced at the time he was tagged, and since he was touching first base, he is safe. Incidentally, had the fielder tagged R1 and then first base, he would have had a double play. Even though R1 was touching first, he was forced to advance, so he would have been out if he was tagged before the first base bag. Such a play can happen quickly, so you can see how it is important to not only know the rules, but to be able to recall them in seconds on the baseball field. You can be that type of an umpire after a thorough study of Jaksa and Roder's manual.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Friday, 18 March 2011 20:31 (eight years ago) link
this just happened in the sox-indians game!
bases loaded, chopper hit to youkilis at 3B, as he was throwing home to force the runner he stepped on the third base bag thus removing the force at home, the runner ran right by varitek who thought he had forced him when it was actually now a tag play, and the run counted
― ciderpress, Thursday, 7 April 2011 01:45 (eight years ago) link
Weird...did his momentum force him to the bag or was it an instinct/brain fart thing?
― The Louvin Spoonful (WmC), Thursday, 7 April 2011 01:47 (eight years ago) link
so that's not considered infield fly rule. lucky break for the sublime tirbe.
― brownie, Thursday, 7 April 2011 01:49 (eight years ago) link
oh, it was a chopper and not a line drive?
― brownie, Thursday, 7 April 2011 01:54 (eight years ago) link
not a rules question but one regarding etiquette.
bottom of the 9th, tied 4-4, 2 outs, bases loaded, austin romine at the plate. eduardo nunez starts taking hacks in the on deck circle. yet, it will either be a walk off hit/walk or an inning ending out.
can't think of a scenario where on deck batter Nunez gets to the plate that inning, is it a matter of principle that someone is standing there?
― sanskrit, Monday, 26 September 2011 01:38 (seven years ago) link
Rules require the next batter be in the ODC I think -- I guess he was just swinging off some nervous energy?
― Antonio Carlos Broheem (WmC), Monday, 26 September 2011 01:43 (seven years ago) link
I'm not sure there's a rule about that. The person in the on-deck circle is also technically not "in the game" either until he is announced, for example, if the manager made a defensive replacement in the top of the inning then he can send anyone he wants to the on-deck circle when that spot is due up, and change his mind at the last minute right as that person is due to bat (or send someone to the on-deck circle to fool the other manager).
― NoTimeBeforeTime, Monday, 26 September 2011 16:21 (seven years ago) link
― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Monday, 26 September 2011 16:26 (seven years ago) link
A stretch but it's def happened before: Romine gets injured in the act of swinging and needs to be replaced.
― citation needed (Steve Shasta), Monday, 26 September 2011 18:32 (seven years ago) link
Nunez was already in the game -- he started. He would not have been able to replace someone at the plate.
― A Chuck Person's Guide to Mark Aguirre (Andy K), Monday, 26 September 2011 18:46 (seven years ago) link
If a manager is ejected in the first half of a doubleheader, he can come back for game 2, right?
― polyphonic, Monday, 26 September 2011 23:50 (seven years ago) link
i suspect that nunez was there out of habit because no one thought about it
― mookieproof, Monday, 26 September 2011 23:54 (seven years ago) link
A stretch but it's def happened before: Romine gets injured in the act of swinging and needs to be replaced.
Unless Nunez isn't already in the lineup (i.e. he's pinch hitting), he can't replace Romine; the manager would have to find another guy on the bench to finish Romine's at bat.
― Leee, Lord of Wtfomgham (Leee), Tuesday, 27 September 2011 05:13 (seven years ago) link
Can't find a baseball thread for general stupidity, so this'll have to do.
Took my middle school team to their three-pitch tournament today. First game, we go into the bottom of the final inning down 1-0. Two outs, runners on first and second, our best hitter coming up. He crushes one between the left and center fielder that rolls to the fence. Guy on second scores easily. I'm coaching third, jumping up and down and going crazy (as I tend to do in such situations), and the guy on first is coming into third. I'm waving him through, but I'm worried that he's going to forget he's not to touch the plate--there's a safety line they're supposed to cross instead, to avoid collisions at home--and I want to remind him. I get too close to the base, he runs into me, proceeds to score, but the umpire calls coach interference. Third out, tie game.
We played well the rest of the way, losing three games by a total of five runs and winning two fairly lopsidedly, and finished fifth out of eight times. I wonder how we would have done if we'd won that first game.
― clemenza, Friday, 15 June 2012 01:34 (seven years ago) link
I read this, and I've got to say, I think the umpire messed up:
When I questioned him on it, I think he indicated that I had pushed our player forward. I don't think I did, the kid just ran into me, but I can't say for sure.
― clemenza, Friday, 15 June 2012 01:39 (seven years ago) link
that is ridiculous. the kid is running; no contact from you is legitimately going to speed him up.
what is three-pitch?
― mookieproof, Friday, 15 June 2012 01:49 (seven years ago) link
That's what I thought too--I slowed him down and he still scored.
Three-pitch (slow-pitch) is where your pitcher pitches to your own team. You get three pitches, strike or ball, to put it in play.
― clemenza, Friday, 15 June 2012 02:03 (seven years ago) link
this is middle school? when do kids start pitching, grade 13? (sorry, couldn't resist ontario joke)
when i was a kid we were pitching to each other at age 8, with little league rules that you couldn't pitch more than six innings a week. which resulted in a fair number of walks, thus the 10-batters-per-inning rule.
― mookieproof, Friday, 15 June 2012 02:14 (seven years ago) link
Don't forget this is softball in a school setting--safety is a huge concern. I think three-pitch/slow-pitch is pretty common for friendly adult leagues, too. There are lots of out-of-school leagues where grade-school kids play regular baseball.
Today was crazy. Each game was 25 minutes maximum, so you got through all of three innings. (In one game we got a fourth inning in.) There was a five-run mercy rule. All of this helped us--our team was only of middling strength--but it felt like an assembly line.
― clemenza, Friday, 15 June 2012 02:24 (seven years ago) link
oic. that still sounds . . . kind of bizarre tho. vaguely reminiscent of the gym teacher i had who would have us play volleyball but one bounce was legal or have us play wiffleball but you had to run the bases third-to-second-to-first-to-home
― mookieproof, Friday, 15 June 2012 02:32 (seven years ago) link
safety is a huge concern
are these ppl concerned about the whl?
― mookieproof, Friday, 15 June 2012 02:34 (seven years ago) link
The WHL meaning...Bobby Hull and the Toronto Toros? You lost me!
Let me put it this way--kids have to wear goggles for badminton tournaments now. Our school board gets more and more paranoid every year about potential lawsuits.
― clemenza, Friday, 15 June 2012 02:43 (seven years ago) link
― polyphonic, Tuesday, 18 June 2013 18:23 (six years ago) link
Salute to Brad Ziegler. Wow.
― Andy K, Tuesday, 18 June 2013 18:40 (six years ago) link
Never heard of this play before. Similar situation to the one Tracer Hand posted about above where a force is no longer in place after a putout at first. Interesting that Mantle knew he could go back to first base:
― timellison, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 01:14 (six years ago) link
Yeah, if the Yankees had won that series then it would have been one of the more talked about plays ever. Johnny Damon had that crazy baserunning play that helped them to win Game 4 in '09 and turn the Series around (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs/2009/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=4615712) , but a) it wasn't Game 7, b) Damon isn't Mickey Mantle.
― NoTimeBeforeTime, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 21:41 (six years ago) link
What is the dumbest rule?
― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 7 August 2013 18:57 (five years ago) link
alter the rulebook strike zone? a bridge too far
― touch of a love-starved cobra (Dr Morbius), Friday, 13 February 2015 18:04 (four years ago) link
i'm fine with changing it back to the top of the knee. the bottom of the knee standard was the result of a recent rule change too, and god knows offense has to be increased somehow. either this or aluminum bats i guess
― sae nnwurd - throw sum mo ka (k3vin k.), Friday, 13 February 2015 18:10 (four years ago) link
Inspired by Craig Counsell looking and dressing like a thirty year old college dropout during this year's playoffs: when did this trend of managers wearing playoff-themed team sweatshirts start? I have strong memories of it in the 2015 playoffs, but I think it started a few years earlier than that?
A quick search reveals nothing in the rulebook specifically mandating that a manager must be in full uniform -- coaches, yes, because they stand on the field of play during games.
― NoTimeBeforeTime, Sunday, 21 October 2018 08:01 (eight months ago) link
I'm interested in who picks the dumbass two-word hoodie/sweatshirt slogans. Is there a team vote?
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 21 October 2018 14:41 (eight months ago) link