Say HEY! Willie Mays, 75 on Saturday

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When Herman Franks, who managed the Giants in the mid-1960s, was asked why he often deferred to Mays so frequently, he put it this way: "Because he knows more about those things than I do. You got any hard questions?"

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 17:06 (sixteen years ago) link

Clap Your Hands Say Hey!

c(''c) (Leee), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 17:10 (sixteen years ago) link


The Say Hey Kid has lots of fond memories, few regrets
John Shea, Chronicle Staff Writer
Wednesday, May 3, 2006

He's turning 75 on Saturday, and almost half of U.S. citizens weren't born when he played his final season 33 years ago. Their only image of Willie Mays might be the black-and-white film from the 1954 World Series or color clips of Mays running the bases at Candlestick Park, his legs accelerating and his cap falling.

Not everyone is familiar with the Say Hey Kid.

His five-tool distinction and childlike exuberance. His 3,283 hits and 660 home runs. His two MVPs and 12 Gold Gloves. His 24 All-Star appearances and four World Series.

His stickball commitment to the kids in Harlem. His Polo Grounds catch that robbed Vic Wertz. His four-homer game at Hank Aaron's home park in Milwaukee. His 16th-inning homer to beat Warren Spahn.

His peacekeeping mission in the Roseboro-Marichal brawl. His blasting caps commercial ("Don't touch them"). His temporary banishment by Bowie Kuhn. His tutelage of Barry Bonds.

Man, there are a lot of memories of Willie. The guy played three seasons in the Negro Leagues. He made it to the majors four years after Jackie Robinson broke the color line. He was a Giants rookie when Bobby Thomson hit the Shot Heard 'Round the World. He played in a World Series in his first and final years -- the center-field counterparts were Joe DiMaggio in 1951 and Reggie Jackson in 1973.

For folks relatively new to the planet, there's more to Mays than being Bonds' godfather. Three days before he turns the big seven-five, here's a glimpse at a few things baseball fans ought to know about the greatest living ballplayer, if not the greatest ballplayer, period, gathered in a recent interview at his Peninsula home:

On his boyhood idols

He had four of them. Robinson, for obvious reasons. Also: DiMaggio, Ted Williams and Stan Musial.

"All you saw on the front page in my hometown was Joe and Ted and Stan," said Mays, who grew up in Fairfield, Ala. "I wanted to pick which one I wanted to be like, and I picked Joe because Joe was a more all-around ballplayer than the other two. Joe couldn't hit like Ted and Stan, but he could do everything. I played the same kind of game."

On Willie Howard Mays Sr.

Willie the elder was a ballplayer, too, playing on all-black teams in the segregated South. He worked in a steel mill, which sponsored his semi-pro team. Willie, the younger, played with his dad when he was 14.

"Everybody knew him in Birmingham," Mays said. "They called him 'Cat' because he could run like a cat, very quick. When I played with him, I played center, he played left. I said, 'You play on the line, I'll take care of everything else.'

"He followed me to New York and then to San Francisco. He wasn't just my father. He was my friend. We could talk about anything, which was good for me."

Willie Sr. died in 1999 at 89. Willie's mother, Annie, died while he was still a New York Giant. She was a star sprinter in high school.

On his first professional memory

Willie missed his high school prom because he had to catch a train to Trenton, N.J., where he was beginning his pro career.

What a bummer.

"You're telling me?" he said. "(My date) was my girlfriend at the time. I bought the dress, the corsage, everything. But I had to get somebody to take her to the prom. I was told they needed me in Trenton the next morning, so I went. Baseball was more important to me than the prom. Baseball was my livelihood."

Mays hit .353 with four homers and 55 RBIs in 81 games for Trenton.

On his favorite memento

Mays set more records than he can remember, but what he cherishes most is his scouting report. It's typewritten and dated May 6-10, 1951, when he was with Triple-A Minneapolis.

Some excerpts: "Everything that he does is sensational."... "(He) has made the most spectacular catches, runs and throws with the best of them." ..."Sensational negro boy is the outstanding player in Minneapolis club and probably in all minor leagues for that matter." ..."He is now in one of the best hitting streaks imaginable." ... "(He) hits to all fields and hits all pitches."

A few days after the scouting report was filed, Mays was a major-leaguer, at age 20. In 35 games at Minneapolis, he hit .477 with eight homers and 30 RBIs.

Getting called to the big leagues, he said, was his biggest career thrill.

On breaking into the majors

Mays started his big-league career 0-for-12, then 1-for-26 with a home run off Spahn. Still, he retained the faith of Giants manager Leo Durocher, who knew the kid would be great. Mays was at his locker, crying, when Durocher came over and assured him he'd remain the center fielder.

"Leo never bothered me," Mays said. "He said, 'You play your game, I'll take care of the other eight.' The only time he told me what to do is sometimes he gave me the take sign on 3-0. I didn't even get that too much."

Mays was the league's top rookie in 1951, hitting .274 with 20 homers and 68 RBIs in 121 games.

On the 'The Shot Heard 'Round the World'

Mays was on deck when Thomson's homer off Ralph Branca beat the Dodgers for the 1951 pennant.

"I thought they'd let me hit. I thought they'd walk Bobby," Mays said. "I was happy it wasn't me. I was on deck, but I was the last guy to the plate after Bobby scored. I was so nervous."

On wearing No. 24

Mays began his big-league career as No. 14. Jack Maguire had 24. A few days later, Maguire was traded, and 24 went to Mays.

"That's the number they gave me," Mays said. "In those days, you didn't ask for a number because someone else wore it. You were just so glad to get a number."

The Giants have retired 24. When Bonds first signed with the Giants, he wanted to wear 24 because of Mays, his godfather. Barry settled for 25, his dad Bobby's old number.

The Giants' ballpark is at 24 Willie Mays Plaza, and Mays' bronze statue is surrounded by 24 palm trees. The right-field wall is 24 feet high.

Mays said he wore 28 at Minneapolis.

On the origin of 'Say Hey Kid'

When Mays came to the majors, he didn't know everyone's name right away.

"You see a guy, you say, 'Hey, man. Say hey, man,' " Mays said. "Ted was the 'Splinter'. Joe was 'Joltin' Joe'. Stan was 'The Man'. I guess I hit a few home runs, and they said there goes the 'Say Hey Kid.' "

Mays credits sportswriter Jimmy Cannon with creating the nickname. Other sources trace it to sportswriter Barney Kremenko.

On the origin of the basket catch

Another example of how he was set apart from others. Catching flies at his waist rather than over his head was standard practice for Mays. He said he worked on it while playing ball in the Army in the early '50s.

"I wanted to do something different than other guys playing the outfield," Mays said. "When I came out of the Army, Leo said I could do it. Just don't drop it. I missed two. One in Pittsburgh, one in New York. Ten years apart. I was pretty polished."

On the famous World Series catch

The play was known as The Catch. Mays remembers it as The Throw.

Game 1, '54 Series, Polo Grounds, eighth inning, 2-2 score. Cleveland's Larry Doby on second, Al Rosen on first, Vic Wertz at the plate. Wertz smashes the ball 450 to 460 feet to center, seemingly beyond Mays' reach. But Mays gloved it over his shoulder and, in one motion, fired it back to the infield.

"It was a wide-receiver catch. I knew I'd get it. It was high enough where I could catch it. That wasn't the problem," Mays said. "The hardest thing was getting it back to the infield. I knew Larry could score if I didn't get the ball back quickly. I scored lots of times from second base on a deep fly that was caught. That was the only thing I was worried about."

Doby returned to second, tagged and went to third, Rosen retreated to first. The Indians didn't score in the inning, and the Giants won on Dusty Rhodes' pinch homer in the 10th, then swept the Series.

On why the Giants didn't win a title in San Francisco

No team has played in one city longer than the Giants without winning a World Series. In San Francisco, they're 0-for-48.

The first 14 years were on Mays' watch.

"We had some good hitters on our club. A lot of times, we just never had more than two starting pitchers," Mays said. "When we won the pennant in '62, we had five good pitchers. We should've won it that year."

Instead, the Yankees won in seven games. With two outs in the ninth inning of Game 7, Mays doubled to right, sending Matty Alou to third. Willie McCovey then lined out to second baseman Bobby Richardson, and the Giants lost 1-0.

"It had rained and rained, and that ball I hit didn't rattle around in the corner because the field was too wet. It stopped," said Mays, recalling right fielder Roger Maris cutting it off. "I wish I would've been the runner instead of Matty. If I was the runner, I'd have probably tried to score. If I was out, I was out. I wouldn't have been watching the stop sign. The relay was to Richardson, and his throw was up the line a little bit. I would've run. There would've been some type of collision at home plate. It wouldn't have bothered me."

On his greatest regret

Mays didn't want to leave San Francisco, but owner Horace Stoneham, looking to save a buck, had him dealt to the Mets in the first month of the 1972 season.

"I didn't ever want to be traded," he said. "You're with a club so long, you don't want to go anywhere. But when I got to New York, it was like I never left. All the players hugged me and asked where I'd been so many years."

In his first game with the Mets, Mays hit a homer to beat the Giants.

On how Bonds could have been chasing Mays, not Aaron

Mays missed all but 34 games in 1952 and all of 1953 to serve in the Army. He estimates it cost him between 70 and 80 homers.

"Easy," Mays said. "That was two years I lost."

Candlestick Park also cost him. The late Giants beat writer Bob Stevens said Mays would have hit 800 homers if not for the tough Candlestick conditions.

Do the math: Without the military or the 'Stick, that's 870 to 880 homers.

"I don't like to look at it that way," Mays said. "I like to look at it as, I had a good 20, 22 years. I had my time, and I enjoyed my time."

On why he didn't manage

One reason Mays didn't want to manage, he said, was because he didn't think he'd succeed.

"I could've done that," he said, "but I don't think I would've been a good manager because I think I would've expected too much out of the players. I was told Frank (Robinson, the Nationals' 70-year-old manager) was very difficult on players the first few years because he was such a great player. Now he's mellowed and can handle it."

Mays revealed that Peter Magowan asked him about managing when his group bought the Giants after the 1992 season. Then, Mays was 61.

On why he'd rather teach

One of Mays' pastimes is visiting spring training and hanging in the clubhouse with young players. He'd like to take it to another level.

"I'd like to teach them," he said. "Give me six kids. Not just major-league kids, but kids from the minors. Take them out, work with them, see their progress. Let the club know they could call up a kid and he'd do something. Baserunning, hitting, fielding.

"What I see nowadays, they don't have the baserunning skills. They catch too much with one hand. The hardest thing is believing what I say. Once they believe, the other part is easy."

On Bonds' steroid plight

Bonds gets booed on the road while the treatment for Jason Giambi and Gary Sheffield isn't as harsh despite their shared involvement in the BALCO steroid case.

"My thing is, he shouldn't have to go through it by himself," Mays said. "There were seven other guys out there, I was told, and they're being left alone. (Mark) McGwire quit. Sammy (Sosa) quit. (Rafael) Palmeiro quit.

"It's just my opinion, but I'd like for everybody to say, 'Whatever happened in the past, let it go.' From this day on, we're making tighter rules. You do something wrong, we'll penalize you, because they have no proof, the way I understand it. I may be wrong.

"Let's move on. Let him play. Let him have fun. He'll be better off if they let him alone for a while. But that's not going to happen."

On whether Aaron's catchable

Bonds has 712 homers, and it's only a matter of time before he surpasses Ruth's 714. But what about Aaron's 755? This is Bonds' final season of his contract, and he turns 42 in July.

"If he hits 30, 35 this year, he's got a shot at it," Mays said. "But if he hits only 20, 22, it may be too much for him."

On turning 75

"I'm not a birthday guy," Mays said. "I like simple things. Get a cake and get it over with and go on to the next one, hopefully."

Steve Shasta (Steve Shasta), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 17:12 (sixteen years ago) link

two years pass...

The only oldtimer who needed help walking at Shea yesterday. :(

Dr Morbius, Monday, 29 September 2008 16:31 (fourteen years ago) link

Willie seems like an OLD 78... :\

Every Day Jimmy Mod Is Hustlin' (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Monday, 29 September 2008 18:21 (fourteen years ago) link


Dr Morbius, Monday, 29 September 2008 18:47 (fourteen years ago) link

one year passes...

Memoir coming next month:

Rage, Resentment, Spleen (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 31 January 2010 14:39 (thirteen years ago) link

sorry, my Sunday morning comprehension is iffy -- it's essentially an authorized bio, not a memoir.

Rage, Resentment, Spleen (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 31 January 2010 15:21 (thirteen years ago) link

one year passes...

say h80!

resistance does not require a firearm (Dr Morbius), Friday, 6 May 2011 11:26 (eleven years ago) link

two years pass...

looks like marichal's game score was 112! spahn's was a mere 97.

i can't seem to find a way to look up the pitch counts, though.

Z S, Friday, 5 July 2013 17:36 (nine years ago) link

Seven HOF'ers, with four of them accounting for 2448 HR, and the two starters just over 600 wins. Attendance: 15,921!

clemenza, Friday, 5 July 2013 17:41 (nine years ago) link

Z S:

Marichal threw 227 pitches; Spahn threw 201.

From a nice little article:

Stately, plump Carey Mulleeegan (Leee), Friday, 5 July 2013 18:59 (nine years ago) link

Alvin Dark tried to take Marichal out for the first time in the ninth. The conversation did not go well. Marichal refused to go, pointing to the Braves dugout at the 42-year-old counterpart and telling his manager, "I am not going to come out of that game as long as that old man is still pitching."

Dark tried again in the 12th, again to no avail. Before the 15th, Marichal thought he spotted a reliever coming in from the bullpen, so he hastily grabbed his glove and cap and raced out to the mound to reclaim his territory.

Stately, plump Carey Mulleeegan (Leee), Friday, 5 July 2013 19:00 (nine years ago) link

when men were men and hitters weren't that good.

playwright Greg Marlowe, secretly in love with Mary (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 6 July 2013 00:50 (nine years ago) link

one month passes...

Didn't realize this was out there till I saw it in a bookstore today:

Still on the expensive side. Barra's great.

clemenza, Thursday, 22 August 2013 19:30 (nine years ago) link

one month passes...

I love the first comment: "This photo is why Marvin Miller should be in the Hall Of Fame"

NoTimeBeforeTime, Monday, 23 September 2013 05:08 (nine years ago) link

one year passes...


Happy now?

My Life with the Thrillho Kult (Leee), Friday, 17 October 2014 03:37 (eight years ago) link

yeah you also ignored the beautiful 'happiness is a mets victory' picture i posted FOR YOU MORBS.

Van Horn Street, Friday, 17 October 2014 03:39 (eight years ago) link

yes, yr a good man. xp

No, I didn't! Just silent. I've read about that kid's banner for decades (it's not me).

this horrible, rotten slog to rigor mortis (Dr Morbius), Friday, 17 October 2014 03:40 (eight years ago) link

eleven months pass...

I'll put this here instead of the Trout thread:

clemenza, Thursday, 1 October 2015 11:41 (seven years ago) link

Bought an old issue of Life today (James Earl Ray/Sirhan Sirhan cover) and found this ad inside:

clemenza, Sunday, 11 October 2015 17:15 (seven years ago) link

one month passes...
five months pass...


mookieproof, Saturday, 7 May 2016 00:24 (six years ago) link

I had my vintage Mays shirt on at the Jays game tonight.

clemenza, Saturday, 7 May 2016 04:27 (six years ago) link

Happy Birthday to the Say Hey Kid. 85 and was at the ballpark for his birthday.

Bee OK, Saturday, 7 May 2016 14:37 (six years ago) link

You've probably seen this by now--can't figure out how to embed the clip.

Little things mean a lot. Notwithstanding that there's staff there to initiate and look after these things, I don't think you'd have seen this if McCain or Romney had been president.

clemenza, Monday, 9 May 2016 22:45 (six years ago) link

that was Great! thanks for sharing clemenza.

Bee OK, Tuesday, 10 May 2016 01:11 (six years ago) link

otoh everyone would give Kissinger a medal, that we all know

we can be heroes just for about 3.6 seconds (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 10 May 2016 02:22 (six years ago) link

...that is, Jesus fucking Christ.

we can be heroes just for about 3.6 seconds (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 10 May 2016 02:22 (six years ago) link

I've tried hard the past year-plus not to respond to your idiocy, but this time I will. Did it ever occur to you that a gesture like that might mean something to Willie Mays?

clemenza, Tuesday, 10 May 2016 02:51 (six years ago) link

it was fine til you brought McCain and Mitt into it. Just pretend America isn't here.

we can be heroes just for about 3.6 seconds (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 10 May 2016 03:00 (six years ago) link

four months pass...

When I saw his name at the top of that newsy Facebook sidebar, I assumed that was it. No--anniversary of the Catch.

clemenza, Thursday, 29 September 2016 22:16 (six years ago) link

one year passes...

On this date in 1954, Willie Mays made one of the most iconic defensive plays in World Series history. The Giants center fielder tracked down Vic Wertz's long fly ball to make "The Catch" — an over-the-head basket grab in deep center field at the Polo Grounds — during a crucial moment in Game 1 against the Indians. The Giants went on to win the World Series in a four-game sweep.

Today, Major League Baseball announced that the World Series MVP trophy has been renamed in honor of the Say Hey Kid.

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Friday, 29 September 2017 19:37 (five years ago) link

That rules

brimstead, Friday, 29 September 2017 20:05 (five years ago) link

one year passes...

And Happy Birthday too to Orson Welles and Sigmund Freud--May 6, genius day.

clemenza, Monday, 6 May 2019 21:58 (three years ago) link

and John Flansburgh of They Might be Giants and frogbs

frogbs, Monday, 6 May 2019 22:01 (three years ago) link

Have a good one--great day for your birthday.

clemenza, Monday, 6 May 2019 22:08 (three years ago) link

one year passes...

say HEY

brooklyn suicide cult (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 6 May 2020 12:37 (two years ago) link

one year passes...

90 today. (Can't find the thread I once started on May 6 birthdays--Mays, Orson Welles, and Freud.)

clemenza, Thursday, 6 May 2021 12:49 (one year ago) link

one year passes...

91 today, happy birthday

Bee OK, Friday, 6 May 2022 22:22 (nine months ago) link

four months pass...

Hope to see this somewhere:

clemenza, Tuesday, 4 October 2022 14:51 (four months ago) link

two months pass...

Still one of the greatest moments in baseball history

— BaseballHistoryNut (@nut_history) December 13, 2022

It really was, I'd agree. I don't think Mays is all that mobile these days, but if at all possible, I really wish they'd do the same for him next All-Star Game.

clemenza, Wednesday, 14 December 2022 22:12 (one month ago) link

He was at one of the last games of the season - had hip surgery recently and wants to be at spring training.

There was a good SI piece about this, about how he didn’t want to be seen as a a museum piece and just enjoys spending time in the clubhouse with players.

bit high, bitch (gyac), Wednesday, 14 December 2022 22:57 (one month ago) link

I respect anything Willie says or wants, but watching all those players gather around Williams that year was just unbelievable--especially Gwynn next to him, whose chance at .400 five years earlier was cut short by the strike. (If you have a sharp eye, apparently there are 19 HOF'ers in that photo.)

clemenza, Thursday, 15 December 2022 01:43 (one month ago) link

four weeks pass...

I kept meaning to post this and today I found it in my tabs: Willie Mays talking to young Giants rookies in winter 2009. Bold from the original formatting, italics his!

The 25 or so young players sat in chairs encircling Mays, who sat behind a small table.

“All right, guys, c’mon, what else?’’ Mays said, prompting the next question.

Ever get timed in the 60?
“No, no! I didn’t run! I told them, ‘I can’t run the ball over the fence.’ When they were out running, I was asleep in the clubhouse. They got you just running here? You doing some hitting?’’

No, the players said. Just conditioning work.
“That’s not fun! Maybe I should say something. You want to hit a little bit and then go run. You got to enjoy yourself.’’

He told them about his struggles against Drysdale, Gibson, Koufax and Bob Rush then added: “I made up for it on all the other guys, the scrubs. I destroyed them.’’

Best players you ever saw?
Robert Clemente, Mays said. Barry Bonds — “If I don’t say Barry, he’ll start a fight.’’ Bobby Bonds (Now, he could run!’’ ) , Maury Wills (“Played a good shortstop.’’) and Frank Robinson (“Triple Crown winner’’).

What did you do in the off-season?
“Work, man, work! That’s a very good question. I played basketball, football — touch football — they didn’t know I played football! I had a 32 waistline. I worked out and played all the time. No time to lay around. Had to keep myself in shape. Played winter ball two times.’’

We’ve heard from other major-league players about what makes a good teammate. What’s your definition?
“In 1962, they made me captain. I positioned the outfielders, the infielders, I’d call pitches from centerfield — he didn’t have to take them but I wanted him throw a pitch I thought I could catch. You had to get 25 guys playing together even though nine or ten don’t play much at all and it feels bad. I’d go to the manager and say, ‘I want this guy to play because he needs to feel part of the team.’ The guy would go 9 for 10 and he’d go sit down and feel like a part of the team. When guys had problems at home, they’d come to me and I’d call their wives. I knew the wives better than I knew the players!’’

Your greatest baseball achievement?
“Man, I had so many! I think my greatest achievement was when I signed my major-league contract.’’

Greatest moment?
“Hitting four home runs in Milwaukee (with 8 RBI) was the greatest thing I ever did.’’

Best park to hit in?
“Wrigley. To me the ball went out of there pretty good.’’

Worst park to hit in?
“Candlestick. The wind’s always blowing in. We put a glove to a fence to see if it would fall and it didn’t fall. We could even hit it out in batting practice.
“I know you guys are saying, ‘Oh, hell, he didn’t do all this stuff. Oh yes I did.’’

What was your farthest home run?
“I never worried about that! You just get it over the fence! You don’t care how far it went.’’

What effect did race have back when you played?
“We went to some towns and I couldn’t stay in the same hotel. I remember once in Hagerstown, they dropped me off on the other side of the tracks. You guys from the South, you know what the other side of the track is. So they drop me off and I’m in a hotel, and at 2 o’clock in the morning two or three guys come through the window and sleep the rest of the night on my floor, and then at 6 a.m. they get up and go back out the window. They did the same thing the next night, watching out for me. Nothing was ever said.

“My father told me no matter what anybody said, never to fight. Turn the other cheek. I’d call him up and he’d ask, “Did you fight today?’ Back then, you had to make sure you were bigger than those people who called you names. They called you all kinds of names. But I knew for me to get ahead, I had to take all that kind of stuff. Every time somebody called me a name, I hit the ball.’’

What did you do in a slump?
“A slump is going to happen to everybody in some way. For me, a slump was 0-for-10. Everyone has a different way of getting out of a slump. I’d get out by swinging inside-out and getting a hit that way.’’

Throughout Mays’ talk, the young guys snapped photos with their cell phone, leaning close, recording forever their moment with the greatest player who ever stepped on a baseball field.

The story about his teammates is so touching. Laughed at his “oh yes I did!” as well.

bit high, bitch (gyac), Friday, 13 January 2023 19:16 (three weeks ago) link

I have a great Willie Mays story involving a collector friend of mine.

My friend's a hardcore collector, so he wants things signed a precise way: certain kind of Sharpie, certain spot, perfectly legible, etc. He was at a show to get Mays' signature--having paid a pretty good amount, I'm sure--and when he got up to the table, Mays wouldn't use the Sharpie my friend offered him. So my friend said something like "Okay, fine; I'm going to go and get a refund." He starts to walk away, and Mays call him back. With great disdain, he takes my friend's Sharpie and half-heartedly signs whatever it was my friend had brought along (not a card; probably a photo). I can't remember if my friend was satisfied or not, but he took his item and went and stood by a wall. Mays, who had continued signing, spotted my friend and stopped everything.

"I'm not signing anything more until that guy"--points at my friend--"leaves."

That's as much as I remember; there was no great drama at the end, so I assume my friend just left, content with the autograph and the story he could tell for the rest of his life.

clemenza, Friday, 13 January 2023 19:45 (three weeks ago) link

I really can’t understand that mentality. You’re meeting a living legend and you complain about the marker. Would personally never tell that story.

bit high, bitch (gyac), Friday, 13 January 2023 20:15 (three weeks ago) link

I would never pay for an autography myself (though I regret just a little not getting Thomson/Branca to sign together in one of the two Cooperstown trips I made), but that's a whole different world. Mays and players of his stature are getting paid extremely well; my friend is entitled to get a clear autograph for his money. I mean, that's the basic agreement.

clemenza, Friday, 13 January 2023 20:26 (three weeks ago) link

I mean literally implying the guy won’t sign his name right? I’d be insulted too.

bit high, bitch (gyac), Friday, 13 January 2023 20:28 (three weeks ago) link

Don't get me wrong, I revere Mays. And I'm much more open to players from the '50s and '60s--especially African-American players--making good money at these signings; they were criminally underpaid throughout their careers. But with that stipulated, it's still a transaction where both parties should be happy.

I'm not sure what you friend doesn't imply that Mays wouldn't sign; it's that he wanted to sign with just a regular pen, which is just not what an autograph collector wants for his (guessing, and I'm not sure how far back this was) ~$100 or $150.

clemenza, Friday, 13 January 2023 20:32 (three weeks ago) link

"autography"--I invented a new word. It's like an autograph, but more fun.

clemenza, Friday, 13 January 2023 20:33 (three weeks ago) link

If you have 150-200 to spend on someone’s signature… maybe just take the L and don’t be a dick to Willie Mays ffs

not too strange just bad audio (brimstead), Friday, 13 January 2023 20:39 (three weeks ago) link

Sorry 100-150!

not too strange just bad audio (brimstead), Friday, 13 January 2023 20:40 (three weeks ago) link

I think where your buddy went wrong was in saying he was gonna get a refund. Makes him sound like a prima donna.

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Friday, 13 January 2023 20:40 (three weeks ago) link

So if you can afford something, it's okay to not get what you thought you were paying for? What should my friend have done: said, "That's fine, sign with whatever you want--crayon will be fine"? If he doesn't get a clear signature, it's of no value to him--that's what a collector wants, even though such a mindset might not make sense to me or you.

clemenza, Friday, 13 January 2023 20:44 (three weeks ago) link

If you read the post I made right before yours, Mays speaks pretty plainly about the things he went through as a black player to the point his teammates felt the need to sleep in his room to protect him. I think living through shit like that would make anyone pretty intolerant of lots of petty nonsense. Your friend was entitled to his autograph, he wasn’t entitled to tsk tsk a guy who’s probably gone through more shit then he’ll ever live through in his life because he preferred to use a biro.

bit high, bitch (gyac), Friday, 13 January 2023 20:47 (three weeks ago) link

What should my friend have done: said, "That's fine, sign with whatever you want--crayon will be fine"?


immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Friday, 13 January 2023 20:50 (three weeks ago) link

We're going to have to disagree--a first, I know. My friend knows Mays's background very well, I assure you; he knows all about Willie Mays, that's why he wants his autograph. (His favourite player ever is Clemente.) But older players, black and white, make a lot of money signing autographs. People who watched them growing up go to those shows to get their autographs. And if the autograph is to have value--display value, investment value, whatever--something that's not going to last, or is illegible, isn't good enough. That's the understood transaction that's taking place.

Jimbeaux, I think I'd love to do business with you.

clemenza, Friday, 13 January 2023 20:54 (three weeks ago) link

Funny thing is, gyac, my friend got under my skin once by saying something I could easily imagine you saying: told me that he loves the game for the art, and I love it for numbers. I told him that he was being really sanctimonious, and that he was missing a fundamental truth that there is art in baseball numbers.

clemenza, Friday, 13 January 2023 20:56 (three weeks ago) link

That's the understood transaction that's taking place.

I am guessing he was using something that was fit for the purpose anyway. Your friend was just being an ass.

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Friday, 13 January 2023 20:59 (three weeks ago) link

He quite likely wanted sign with a ballpoint pen. Which are terrible for autographs.

clemenza, Friday, 13 January 2023 21:00 (three weeks ago) link

Let me recap as I understand it:
- your friend, a collector, wants Willie Mays’s autograph
- he pays whatever fee and joins the queue
- when he meets Mays, he asks him to sign with a sharpie, Mays doesn’t want to
- rather than accept an autograph signed with a pen, your friend decides he would rather have no autograph at all and goes to leave
- Mays, clearly annoyed, calls him back, signs with the marker but doesn’t put much effort into it
- your friend hangs around, Mays would very much like this guy out of his sight
- despite the bolded sentence, the key part, we are supposed to sympathise with your friend?

bit high, bitch (gyac), Friday, 13 January 2023 21:11 (three weeks ago) link

I didn't tell the story looking for anyone to sympathize with him! I actually thought it was a funny story. Only after the usual crew of three or four people materialized out of thin air to argue with me did I feel the need to defend him (which he'd find highly amusing, seeing as often he and I disagree). And yeah, if you're not happy that what you're about to get isn't what you paid for--cf. the San Francisco Giants and New York Mets--you'd rather have no autograph at all. That seems pretty basic to me.

clemenza, Friday, 13 January 2023 21:16 (three weeks ago) link

I'm guessing my friend hung around because he wasn't satisfied with the autograph and was thinking about what he should do. I don't think there was a stipulation that people were to vacate the room immediately after their item had been signed.

clemenza, Friday, 13 January 2023 21:18 (three weeks ago) link

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