everything we've been told about steroids is wrong! or is it...

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http://www.laweekly.com/ink/05/36/features-kotler.php

gear (gear), Monday, 1 August 2005 17:28 (fifteen years ago) link

i can't believe they used that Bunning quote:

I love politicians...

Bunning:
``When I played with Henry Aaron and Willie Mays and Ted Williams, they didn't put on 40 pounds of bulk in their careers, and they didn't hit more homers in their late 30s than they did in their late 20s. What's happening now in baseball isn't natural and it isn't right,'' said Bunning.

Henry Aaron
HRs age 25-29: 202
HRs age 35-39: 203

Ted Williams
HRs age 25-29: 95
HRs age 35-39: 145

Willie Mays
HRs age 25-29: 163
HRs age 35-39: 123

Hey one out of three ain't bad, it's like batting .333!!!

-- gygax! (gygax0...), March 17th, 2005 3:43 PM. (gygax!)

gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 1 August 2005 20:44 (fifteen years ago) link

robble

gear (gear), Monday, 1 August 2005 20:45 (fifteen years ago) link

as noted on the thread where that quote comes from - Williams missed two seasons (or most of two seasons) from 25-29, Aaron went from a pitcher-friendly park to a seriously homer-friendly park.

milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Monday, 1 August 2005 21:25 (fifteen years ago) link

Bunning was also referring to people going from Ichiro's HR totals to Willie Mays' HR totals after their 33rd birthday - how often did that happen back in the day?

milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Monday, 1 August 2005 21:27 (fifteen years ago) link

I think it's pretty obvious that our 1) steroids can have a LOT of beneficial medical effects and that the stifling of those purposes is pretty lame and 2) our nation's drug enforcement policies are pointless and stupid. That said the one thing that the article makes clear is that unregulated, poorly tested, possibly dangerous black market drugs used by people with little to no knowledge of them for extreme effects is a very bad scene.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 1 August 2005 21:31 (fifteen years ago) link

what's interesting is perhaps that these "nu-steroids", regulated and carefully taken, are exactly what some of these players have been taking over the years. One wonders if perhaps these are NOT bad things? A product that allows for longer productivity, greater strength, and actually has (possibly) health benefits? Where the only stigma is the "edge" (however much of an edge) it gives in offensive production/injury recovery time? If that's the case, how different is it from another, legal strength-building supplement? is this another example of the puritanical, anti-drug sensibility in our country, which can't look beyond a buzzword such as "steroids" to see the notion that this particular 'version' is perhaps a very good thing? i dunno just playing devil's advocate here, to a degree.

gear (gear), Monday, 1 August 2005 21:39 (fifteen years ago) link


Keep in mind that people have also gotten much bigger and stronger over the past 100 years.

http://www.laweekly.com/images/enlarger/index.php3?iyear=05&inumber=36&iimage=sm36features2.jpg

Wow, that's lovely.

Land Ho (dymaxia), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 08:50 (fifteen years ago) link


(It also comes out of LA).

Land Ho (dymaxia), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 08:51 (fifteen years ago) link

WIN THE WAR ON DRUGS

David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 11:37 (fifteen years ago) link

so what if they do, under quality medical administration, lead to longer productivity, greater strength, and (possible) health benefits? we're going to enter a world where many many players are going to feel like they have to take them just to keep up (i'm of the impression that the benefits are or can be huge), and unless baseball makes some drastic rule changes (and they won't, at least not until it's far too late) we're going to perpetuate to an increased degree the sham of a game we've been seeing for the past decade. this year's started what'll hopefully be a downward slope in offensive production, but hitters aren't supposed to have this kind of advantage in this game - and any evidence we
DO have about steroids would suggest they give them a massive one over the pitcher. this is an argument that's always in the back of most ppl's heads; in mine it's always been at the fore. but, though
i typically hate to take this tack, if we enter an era where every pro ballplayer is openly juicing, i really do think we're going to see a lot of kids fucking themselves up, a helluva lot more than now, becaucse there will be (no matter what steps are taken) a v powerful illusion of safety w/ a drug that will still be just as unsafe as ever.

in conclusion, making this shit ok doesn't make any sense for the fan, the game's history, & society at large.

John (jdahlem), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 13:09 (fifteen years ago) link

PLAYER'S COFFEE JOHN DAHLEM

David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 13:22 (fifteen years ago) link

speed, otoh, is a wonderful and hilarious drug. the government should dole out greenies like restaurants do mints.

John (jdahlem), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 13:29 (fifteen years ago) link

A nuanced and complex dissection of the steroid issue is going to get about as far with the general public as Yellowcake/Plame.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 13:42 (fifteen years ago) link

A nuanced and complex dissection of any issue by the general public isn't going to get very far.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 14:34 (fifteen years ago) link

John Dahlem, your point, like many I've read, omits the fact that a pitcher on steroids has an unfair advantage over the hitter and over other pitchers who can't recover from injuries as quickly, etc. I'm sure you realize this, but I want to make sure that it is mentioned.

polyphonic (polyphonic), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 15:15 (fifteen years ago) link

i'm not saying pitchers don't get a boost, just that based on whatever evidence we do have, it doesn't appear balance is achieved. that might well be because there are many more hitters juicing than pitchers.

John (jdahlem), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 15:29 (fifteen years ago) link

i'm not saying pitchers don't get a boost, just that based on whatever evidence we do have, it doesn't appear balance is achieved. that might well be because there are many more hitters juicing than pitchers.

I doubt it. I agree that steroids seem to help hitter performance more than pitcher performance. The general theory is that increased muscle mass is more helpful to hitters than pitchers, and I can accept that, although muscle mass certainly helps pitchers as well (despite theories counter to this in the past). The biggest boon steroids offer pitchers, from what I've heard, is improved ability to recover from or avoid injuries, and I think it's no coincidence that injury time for pitchers seems to be WAY up this year. (Could be wrong, but it certainly seems that way.)

Anyway, I just think that steroid-abusing pitchers are getting a free ride here. Anyone notice Billy Koch's performance lately?

polyphonic (polyphonic), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 16:29 (fifteen years ago) link

I didn't even notice that Billy Koch was performing!

David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 16:36 (fifteen years ago) link

ha
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2122665

John (jdahlem), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 17:22 (fifteen years ago) link

“We’re talking about DNA repair at an incredible level,” says Rothenberg. “If your body has stopped producing the desired amount of testosterone, pretty soon we’re going to be able to insert genes that double testosterone production.”

A tangential issue: from what I learned in a Nova special, artificially adding a certain gene, usually with the express purpose of increasing the activity of that gene, actually cancels out that gene entirely. Unless Rothenberg is referring to some other technique, he may very well be a quack. Is there a doctorb here who can weigh in? Morbs?

Leeeeeeee (Leee), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 18:16 (fifteen years ago) link

I have an honorary doctorate from a local school of cosmetics, and I can say with certainty that "Dr." Rothenberg is a k-w-a-k quack.

polyphonic (polyphonic), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 18:36 (fifteen years ago) link

"Either this man is dead or my watch has stopped."

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 19:06 (fifteen years ago) link

eight months pass...
Fuck it - juice everyone RIGHT NOW.

David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 01:57 (fourteen years ago) link

fourteen years pass...

so was the ESPN '98 film any good?

brooklyn suicide cult (Dr Morbius), Monday, 15 June 2020 12:26 (three months ago) link

Jeff Tweedy scoring it is NOT a plus in my book...

brooklyn suicide cult (Dr Morbius), Monday, 15 June 2020 13:04 (three months ago) link


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