Also, who was the first player to routinely encounter a dramatic shift (ie, SS/2B playing to the right/left of second)?
― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 24 May 2004 15:51 (fifteen years ago) link
― otto midnight (otto midnight), Monday, 24 May 2004 15:57 (fifteen years ago) link
― John (jdahlem), Monday, 24 May 2004 16:00 (fifteen years ago) link
barry bondsgary sheffield
― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 24 May 2004 16:14 (fifteen years ago) link
― earlnash, Monday, 24 May 2004 16:18 (fifteen years ago) link
― John (jdahlem), Monday, 24 May 2004 16:21 (fifteen years ago) link
I don't know whether it's that effective defensively, but I find it interesting that batters don't often seem to take what they're being offered. Of Ted Williams, I'd heard that he refused to go the other way against the shift--I'm not sure if it was a matter of pride or a matter of power hitting--and one would think that as the Greatest Hitter Who Ever Lived, he could have done so without much problem. I suppose Bonds/Sheffield/Giambi are being paid to hit homers rather than singles, but still...
― mookieproof (mookieproof), Monday, 24 May 2004 17:09 (fifteen years ago) link
I think La Russa may employ it more than any other manager right now. He even does it on a few of the Astros, although I'm kinda foggy on which ones right now. I think maybe they're Hidalgo, Bagwell, and Berkman (but only when hitting left-handed).
― boldbury (boldbury), Monday, 24 May 2004 17:36 (fifteen years ago) link
― John (jdahlem), Monday, 24 May 2004 17:42 (fifteen years ago) link
― mookieproof (mookieproof), Monday, 24 May 2004 18:12 (fifteen years ago) link
― dyson (dyson), Monday, 24 May 2004 18:26 (fifteen years ago) link
the worst part of it is, i think he thinks he's a genius or something.
― John (jdahlem), Monday, 24 May 2004 18:28 (fifteen years ago) link
― boldbury (boldbury), Monday, 24 May 2004 18:29 (fifteen years ago) link
If only relivers were around when the Mick was still alive.
― Leee's a Simpson (Leee), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 19:59 (fifteen years ago) link
― John (jdahlem), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 20:08 (fifteen years ago) link
― vleeetrmx21 (Leee), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 22:29 (fifteen years ago) link
― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 22:33 (fifteen years ago) link
― vleeetrmx21 (Leee), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 22:39 (fifteen years ago) link
― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 22:44 (fifteen years ago) link
― otto midnight (otto midnight), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 12:45 (fifteen years ago) link
― David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 14 April 2005 16:50 (fourteen years ago) link
wonder if the memo's out?
― jonathan quayle higgins (j.q. higgins), Thursday, 14 April 2005 16:53 (fourteen years ago) link
― Daniel Cohen (dayan), Friday, 15 April 2005 05:00 (fourteen years ago) link
― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Friday, 15 April 2005 05:30 (fourteen years ago) link
― The Original Jimmy Mod (The Famous Jimmy Mod), Sunday, 31 July 2005 22:37 (thirteen years ago) link
― The Original Jimmy Mod (The Famous Jimmy Mod), Monday, 1 August 2005 05:37 (thirteen years ago) link
Shifting waaaaay up... Yankees embrace BABIP minimization.
― images of war violence and historical smoking (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 16 April 2014 20:02 (five years ago) link
Did Ted Williams try to beat the shift? He bunted at least 14 times: .917 BA.
― son of a lewd monk (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 25 September 2014 21:22 (four years ago) link
lotta shift news the last few days! Zack Wheeler doesn't like it, so the Mets did less of it behind him last year.
― touch of a love-starved cobra (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 3 March 2015 18:49 (four years ago) link
dudes complaining abt the shift is seriously complaining about someone washing your car for free and doing a nice job of it
― Bringing the mosh (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Wednesday, 4 March 2015 00:25 (four years ago) link
do you really trust the mets to shift rationally tho
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 4 March 2015 00:37 (four years ago) link
Astros' leadership margin in shifts last year was insane
― touch of a love-starved cobra (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 4 March 2015 17:12 (four years ago) link
Nats are non-shifters
“We were the team that did the least [in 2014],” manager Matt Williams said. “That’s a product of our pitching staff and a product of us understanding what our pitchers want and moving from there. There are times where we’ll employ the shift, and we’ll do that type of thing against a certain hitter. But for the most part, our pitchers will dictate that for us because they understand how they’re going to go about trying to get them out.”
― touch of a love-starved cobra (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 5 March 2015 11:29 (four years ago) link
When I played in a league of 13-to-15-year-olds, there was this left-handed, dead-pull power hitter with a hot temper -- Kelly Leak in the body of Andrew WK, personality/build-wise. (Whenever asked about his debated age, he'd say "Old enough to be a father.") One game, while facing him, we shifted our entire defense to the right side of the field. NO ONE was left of second. Either his second or third at-bat, while attempting to hit out of the shift, he popped up, flung his bat and helmet, yelled "FUCK!" at the top of his lungs, was kicked out of the game, and sped off on his scooter.
― Andy K, Thursday, 5 March 2015 13:26 (four years ago) link
Maybe my fave moment at the SABR convention 3 weeks ago was a panel hosted by Brian Kenny, and one topic was how to raise the number of "balls in play" per game. (Whether that even 'needs' to be done wasn't questioned. I like HRs and strikeouts myself.)
Mark DeRosa went into a long sob story about how his buddy Brian McCann, a pull hitter, had a lousy stint with the Yankees because his traditional hits were now being hit directly into shifts. “To me, the hardest thing to do in sports is to hit a baseball. And now you’re asking us to manipulate it to all parts of the field. There’s a good percentage of the guys that cannot do that, period...." Almost immediately, DeRosa started getting heckled from the second row of the audience.
"Too bad!" "Be a better hitter!"
Presumably, you can hear that here:
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 20 July 2017 15:37 (one year ago) link
― brimstead, Thursday, 20 July 2017 23:44 (one year ago) link
Another look at that Astros' infield defense vs. Joey Gallo ... pic.twitter.com/elS08AIkvM— Travis Sawchik (@Travis_Sawchik) April 3, 2018
― mookieproof, Tuesday, 3 April 2018 19:06 (one year ago) link
daniel murphy, kyle seager and matt carpenter on hitting against the shift
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 11 July 2018 15:31 (one year ago) link
I witnessed the Dodgers pull a shift against Corey Dickerson last week and he owned them by dumping a soft single to left.
The Dodgers won 17-1.
― omar little, Wednesday, 11 July 2018 16:56 (one year ago) link
Could The End be near for The Shift?I'm told support is building for that idea. So what would happen if there were no more shifts?More singles..Fewer LH hitters hitting .182..But would it be worth it?I broke down numbers & surveyed coaches & execs!https://t.co/jmNfZOBz1C— Jayson Stark (@jaysonst) December 5, 2018
he estimates that banning the shift would give each team an average of 17 more hits -- almost all singles -- over a season, eg, not much. it would help the slow, powerful pull hitters by giving them a few more singles vs. groundouts, but seems unlikely to change anyone's hitting approach, because singles simply aren't valuable enough to stop swinging for the fences.
“The reason the value of a single has gone down is that strikeouts are up,” said one big-league pitching coach. “So in this era, bunching hits is really hard to do. In our coaches’ room, we’ll sometimes ask, ‘How do you beat an ace? How do you beat a Max Scherzer?’ And it’s not by singles….You’re not going to bunch three singles in an inning against Max Scherzer. You’ve got to get a guy on and hit a ball in the seats. And that’s part of why singles are devalued. It’s just so hard to hit multiple singles in the same inning.”
stark thinks it might happen anyway, though, as only front-office quants really love the shift. everyone else wants more baserunners (and the pitchers seem to hate singles hit through an empty shortstop position more than they love outs taken away up the middle), even though it would prolong games
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 5 December 2018 16:35 (seven months ago) link
The logic of that pitching coach seems... deeply flawed.
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Wednesday, 5 December 2018 16:48 (seven months ago) link
Can't wait to see MLB's decree about what an infielder's "normal" positioning should be, and how far they're allowed to stray from it.
― WmC, Wednesday, 5 December 2018 17:02 (seven months ago) link
banning the shift reduces the penalty for pulling a grounder. pulled grounders go hand-in-hand with trying to hit for more power. banning the shift might *intensify* the launch-angle frenzy— Jeff Sullivan (@based_ball) December 5, 2018
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 5 December 2018 17:05 (seven months ago) link