I hate that guy: your unfavourite player on your favourite team

Firstly, some parameters:

1) thread is to discuss your least favourite player that everyone else loves (I couldn’t find a way to work that into the title). The second part is important! All Giants fans hate AJ Pierzynski, no point mentioning it.

2) does not have to be rational! As you will see if you read on.

3) should be a team you support, nobody cares about Yankees or whoever that you dislike.

I’ll tell you my two guys first.

San Francisco Giants - Madison Bumgarner

My absolute hottest take. Would I give up the 2014 WS if it meant never seeing a “sHoUlD bUmGaRnEr Be In ThE HoF” take again? I…Can’t really say that I haven’t considered it! That’s how deep this hate goes! Btw, the answer is no. A literal handful of games is bullshit.

He was never dominant during the regular season, busted his shoulder in a dirt bike crash during an off day and was never the same afterwards, basically epitomises all the worst elements of white American baseball players (racist, boring) and has a bad attitude to boot.

This take? Aged beautifully. He got worse with this stuff with age and he’s not even old!

My thoughts on the Bumgarner situation. It's the last I'll speak on the matter. @extrabaggs @FlemmingDave pic.twitter.com/fRSZ5TBCgI

— Bill Baer (@Baer_Bill) August 2, 2015

Felt this way about both Papelbon and Kimbrel. Grudging respect when they got the job done, hated their vainglorious self-importance. The example of grinder Keith Foulke probably had something to do w that, and of course the unflappable, humble mastery of Rivera

If we can extend the discussion to managers, then for me it's Cito Gaston for the Blue Jays. Classic non-thinking "player's manager", fiercely loyal to "his guys" beyond all sanity, couldn't develop young talent.

For players, maybe Alex Rios? The Jays had a bad track record of developing young hitting talent in the Ash-Ricciardi years, but Rios was a very good player who I probably didn't appreciate at the time. In the end he got his revenge on the franchise by helping the 2015 beat the Jays and win the WS, so good for him I guess.

As I think I said before, Troy Tulowitzki. Came to town and left the same way: complaining. And didn't play particularly well while he was here.

Not disagreeing with your assessment of Cito, but I do think he was the right manager for the veteran-loaded WS teams (especially the '93 team).

On a more superstar level, maybe other Jays fans can also speak about George Bell? He was grumpy and unlikeable but I think most fans just didn't care and rooted for him anyway ("he's an asshole, but he's *our* asshole!")

I really wanted him to win the MVP in 1987 and was happy that he did but it was strictly homerism. I hated Detroit for beating us and therefore hated Trammell and probably hated myself for being reduced to rooting for Bell even though he wasn't even one of the top-10 or top-15 coolest Jays.

I also, for what it's worth, think Bumgarner was completely on a HOF track right through to the 2016 WS win. He had the three titles, his own WS reputation (right up there with Koufax and Schilling), 100 wins (still mattered), a 2.99 career ERA, and four straight Top 10 CY finishes. After that, one disaster after another.

Trammell should have won in a walk...I liked Bell a lot; hard for me to step back and view him objectively. Stieb obviously had similar issues. Donaldson seems to be at another level of that phenomenon.

Clemens...it's not really that I disliked him, but 1) I wasn't paying close attention to his two years here (all I really followed in terms of the Jays in '97 and '98 was Delgado, and 2) you just knew he was passing through in the most mercenary way possible. Did he earn his money? A thousand times over--he had one or two of the greatest pitcher seasons of the past half-century. But I naturally took to David Price and David Cone and many others who passed through for far briefer windows.

Braves — Marcell (domestic violence, DUI) Ozuna. Kind of startled and sad to hear on a recent Braves broadcast that he's so beloved in the clubhouse.

Is Ozuna widely beloved by fans? Disappointing if so, but I thought I’d seem decidedly split opinions out there.

Not sure, really, but I figure how well he's liked by the average Braves fan is tied to his WAR.

barry bonds was not particularly well-liked in pittsburgh

interestingly, bobby bonilla *was* well-liked, although iirc he developed a reputation as a clubhouse cancer later in his career

bonilla always seemed like some kind of irked mafia don when i was playing attention to him

Bonds/Clemens/A-Rod: were arguably/probably the three greatest players of their generation ever liked anywhere at any stage of their careers? Maybe A-Rod early on, I don't know--I read Selena Roberts' book and recall there was even grumbling then.

By fans? Giants fans loved Bonds.
It didn't matter to them that even his teammates didn't like him.

I meant teammates...but you're right, this is really a thread about fans.

Fans will basically adhere to the Charles Manson Rule 99% of the time.

this kinda sums up why pittsburgh wasn't fond of bonds (and it *loved* jim leyland): https://www.mccoveychronicles.com/2017/1/27/14417122/jim-leyland-barry-bonds-spring-training-argument-video

also a classic baseball coach tirade in which half the words are 'fuck' as all the parts of speech

Yeah Bonds was mainly hated by the press in SF. Incredible hitter, obviously, but an absolute shit of a person. Not even talking about the cheating, which I don’t care about as part of that. I’ve never had to make the case for him (to be a subject of this thread) cos I’ve never heard him get glazed without his juicing being brought up.

gyac said that these picks can be irrational, so feel free to hate on Clemens. But I remember his time in T.O. differently. I think that a lot of people in baseball believed Duquette when he said publically that Clemens was in the twilight of his career. The Jays were unexpected bidders and Beeston personally cinched the deal by promising Clemens that they'd put a winning team on the field. And what happened? The '97 team was awful even though Clemens had an historically great season. The '98 team was better but Gord Ash bumbled his way into the Tim Johnson managerial disaster, a fuckup entirely of his own doing. Clemens was great again, won yet another CY, and understandably wanted to get the hell out of Dodge and join a competently run team. So he opted out (first time I can recall that one of contract existing, come to think of it), got to be a hero in NY and Houston, while the Jays basically sucked for another 17 years.

I think he arrived with good intentions, not to be a mercenary and pump up his FA value. I think most fans were honored that he chose to pitch for the Jays.

Yeah I did say that. I don’t know how Clemens was regarded by most Jays fans but if he was largely liked and thought well of there he’s absolutely a worthy subject & hate at will!

Like I say, I didn't dislike him, it was more indifference--and in view of how phenomenally he pitched, that says something. I don't remember the particulars of his arrival/departure like you do, but was there anything Toronto could have done to counter whatever the Yankees threw at him in 1999 (even if we had been competently run)? Sincere question.

based on his b-r page, the yankees didn't offer him a great deal of money, but obviously they had a good team

also holy shit i guess i never really grasped exactly what his career stats were. insane

For a guy who'd won the last two Cys, does look like he took less than you'd expect. One thing I do remember is that Boston gave up on him too early--got fooled by declining wins--and that he really had it in for management after they let him walk. Was part of the incentive in going to the Yankees the chance to really stick it to Red Sox management?

tbf when the sox let clemens walk he was turning 34, and while he did lead the league in strikeouts, he also walked 106

that's a smart move as long as you're not dealing with one of the top three pitchers(/juicers) of all time

easy target but Ryan Braun. never *disliked* him exactly but he has this clear California bro vibe to him which makes the fact that he has a bunch of Brewers records feel a little weird. he once had this clothing line and it was fucking hideous. like some Jersey Shore shit. he made the rest of the team get photographed in them too. and of course the steroid thing. just throwing that dude under the bus and getting him fired. also the fact that the last 5-6 years he was constantly injured to the point where I didn't even notice when he retired. which I guess explains the steroid thing.

yeah Ryan Braun sucks. the doping is one thing, i mean if you get caught, the thing to do is pretend your health shake wasn't drug tested before you drank it, not smear some poor dude. someone in Braun's camp wrote an anonymous e-mail to a bunch of reporters trying to suggest via implied inside info the guy had tampered with the sample. just the most vile thing to do.

perhaps unfairly, Jose Guzman, for what he represented via the Cubs' shitty GM in the 1992 offseason:

CHICAGO -- The Chicago Cubs Tuesday ended their efforts to keep Cy Young winner Greg Maddux, signing free-agent pitcher Jose Guzman to a four-year, $14.35 million contract.

'I said that if we signed a pitcher, that Greg would not be with us next season,' Cubs General Manager Larry Himes said at a Wrigley Field news conference. 'It is unfortunate. Greg's greatest years were with the Cubs.'

The Cubs did try to entice Maddux, a 20-game winner, offering him a five-year, $27.5 million deal with an additional $1.5 million in incentives. But Maddux's agent Scott Boras rejected the bid Nov. 19, and Himes announced two days later they would seek another starter.

Maddux, a free agent, was believed to be seeking a five-year, $32 million contract.

'My budget is there,' Himes said. 'It's not there to handle another pitcher of that magnitude.'

he wasn't even the best Guzman pitching in MLB during that time.

I'm in disbelief at those dollar amounts

My answer is petty and lighthearted, but my fave team in recent years was the 2011 brewers. In a year they went from 77 to 96 wins just by... Being better at baseball? Looking at the changes in roster and... Greinke and betancourt, that's about it. What made them so fun was that it was the first time I really saw a team having fun all the time. When anyone got a hit they would do a "beast mode" pose like they're supposed to he sully from monsters Inc. It's the best. The personalities are great. Prince, Tony plush, rickie weeks, GREINKE ffs,...

Which bring some to ryan Braun lol

One of the best players on the team but he never seemed "into it" like the others were. Greinke was of course not into it but good lord, he tried. Esp Turing the playoff run. He did the cutest saddest lil beast mode after getting a hit (!) in a playoff game. I never believed it w Braun tho.

God I wish I could find a oic or the vid of the time greinke did it tho I giggled for like 5 mins. God I love Zack greinke so much

Holy moly my phone made a mess of my text there but hopefully you can make sense of most of it

I think they also signed Shaun Marcum that year? but yeah super fun team, was Prince Fielder's last year too, everyone seemed to really be enjoying it. that was the Tony Plush year - people focused on his crazy interviews and celebrations but he was legitimately really good, like almost all-star caliber that year. sucks it all ended by losing to the Cardinals

I had already disliked the cardinals but that series bumped them up to near the top of the list (sorry to the one cards fan on here, km I think). Winning baseball while being deeply unfun. Fuck the cards

The Cubs threw the difference between their Maddux offer and what he was seeking at Candy Maldonado, Willie Wilson, Steve Lake lol Jesus has it really been 31 years?

yeah Ryan Braun sucks. the doping is one thing, i mean if you get caught, the thing to do is pretend your health shake wasn't drug tested before you drank it, not smear some poor dude. someone in Braun's camp wrote an anonymous e-mail to a bunch of reporters trying to suggest via implied inside info the guy had tampered with the sample. just the most vile thing to do.

Team Cabrera actually purchased three existing Spanish-language sites that already sold health products, because investigators would have easily been able to expose a newly-created site. They stuck banner ads for the mysterious product, which contained nothing but a picture of a jar and a phone number in the Dominican Republic. MLB investigators called the number, and it led them to the Dominican Republic, where they actually purchased a jar of the stuff and sent it to the WADA lab for testing.

i did not enjoy josh donaldson's tenure as a new york yankee

Yeah Josh Donaldson is not the idea of the thread here. It’s more like if you’re a Yankee fan who hated Jeter or Judge or Mattingly.

ah yes. don’t think that there are any yankees i feel that way about. new york knicks? sure

Oh wild I somehow missed that there was a Ryan Braun post right before my Ryan Braun post!! Sorry about that but also great minds

Is Ozuna widely beloved by fans?

He gets a good reception, especially this year. Not sure if "beloved" is the right word. Acuña is beloved.

John Rocker is surely the most hated Brave historically.

I'm trying to think of any odious Orioles, and I honestly can't think of a one. Certainly not on the current squad, not historically either. Austin Hays seems like a bit of a smartass, but he's funny and really fucking good.

i do not recall how o's fans felt about albert belle, but tbf he was only there two years

xp pretty sure fans were begging he got DFA'd the first month or so of the season until his bat turned things around.

Yeah, the first month. That has obviously changed.

Anyway, I'm not sure he was "hated" in the same way that, say, Rocker was. More like he had fallen off a cliff and wasn't likely getting back up, and his contract was an albatross.

I remember some people disliking Cal Ripken Jr for doing "the Streak" when they found it selfish. And I heard a rumor that an electricalnoutage was arranged to cover up for a game he would have missed.

He's got to be one of the most beloved Orioles ever, though. Maybe second only to Brooks Robinson.

tbf it *was* kind of selfish. but ultimately also cool. what baseball fan doesn't love weird epic shit

(it's been decades and i've yet to learn of an instance in which a gassed ripken cost the orioles anything important, so gtfo)

lol i've also heard about the electrical outage and how it was faked because he was late returning from fucking a teammate's wife

ffs

my dad’s cousin is/was next door neighbors with him and they had nothing but kind words about him. Then again, it’s rich white people in the South so who knows how much truth is there.

I “don’t like” Cal Ripken because fuck workaholics

Tbf iirc the rumor as I heard it about the 1997 power outtage was that he got in a fight with Kevin Costner after finding Costner with his wife, not that Ripken was the one cheating.