To What Extent Does Your Life Revolve Around Alejandro Kirk? (The 2023 Blue Jays Thread)

The team will be solid but I think they've hit their ceiling. If Pearson and Manoah can figure things out, if they sign another impact hitter, and everything goes right then they can win 95-100 games. But it's more likely that they're an 85-90 win team again, which might not be good enough to make the playoffs again.

https://bluejaysnation.com/news/toronto-blue-jays-brandon-belt-considering-retirement-hopes-he-made-his-family-proud

He faltered a bit in the playoffs, but otherwise he had a good year. His Ohtani MVP joke was one of the best quotes of the year.

Ancient history already, but I just wanted to preserve some player reaction here before this thread is replaced by a new one:

https://jaysjournal.com/posts/whit-merrifield-sounds-off-on-blue-jays-decision-to-pull-jose-berrios-early

I've sampled a lot of reaction in the last two days--online, on the radio, on TV; from fans, commentators, ex- and current players--and I've yet to encounter a single defense of pulling Berrios, which, considering that it actually didn't work out too badly from a run-prevention standpoint (and hinged on an infield hit), tells you everything you need to know. I think Blair summed it up nicely: this is a team that was preoccupied with gaming a 9th-inning matchup on the pitching side of it when their own offense was the same feeble joke for months on end.

NoTime: feeling the ground shift a little.

Aug. 13: https://torontosun.com/sports/simmons-blue-jays-saves-leader-tom-henke-deserves-to-be-up-on-level-of-excellence-too

Oct. 7: https://cooperstownersincanada.com/2023/10/07/humble-henke-should-be-on-blue-jays-level-of-excellence/

If it were up to me:

1) Put Buck and Howarth up next year. Not to be morbid, but both have had issues with cancer (not sure where they are in their treatment/remission), so make sure they're around for that.

2) Henke the next year to correct an egregious omission.

3) Edwin the year after that.

Great Ross Atkins explanation of Berrios: "deploy" three times in 20 seconds.

Buck and Howarth going in together would be fitting and well deserved. They have, what, eighty years or service to the Jays between them?

of service...

i'm with you on those names going up! is Crime Dog a non-starter?

check out At The Letters pod for great insight on that Berrios debacle. I just, cannot. with this team anymore, so i don't have an opinion on that post-season. less traumatizing than last year? so they're headed in the right direction

I'll look for that. McGriff was here for a relatively short time, I think that's the only issue--three-and-a-half seasons. Alomar was only here for five, but that included the two WS (and his name is down now anyway).

It was so funny at my sister's yesterday for Thanksgiving. My brother-in-law would say "Okay, no more talk about the Jays"--then we'd drift back to that, get worked up all over again, then we'd stop, then we'd drift back...

"Media availability" with Shapiro tomorrow. God, I hope someone steps to the mic and nails him to the wall. (Maybe Sid Seixeiro will be there.) "You basically think you're a genius and the rest of us are stupid, right?"

30 years ago today, Joe Carter touched 'em all.

I remember it so well, the time has passed in the blink of an eye.

The good life: 10,950 people have come up to him in restaurants and elevators and beaches and expressed their gratitude.

joe carter hater for life, checking in

Mitch! How's everything?

it's chill i've grown a beard and put my hair in a manknot and go by 'craig kimbrel' now

Nice...For what it's worth, I count what happened to Williams after the HR as near-tragic--sports fans at their most idotic.

Also idiotic.

Hmmmmn...

https://calltothepen.com/posts/assessing-2023-mlb-front-offices-ross-atkins-toronto-blue-jays

An analytical argument as to why Atkins is one of the best GMs in the game. Don't know how many Jays fans would endorse that.

Dan Shulman is a finalist for the Ford Frick Award. Didn't realize he's been around for so long.

https://www.tsn.ca/mlb/dan-shulman-jacques-doucet-among-10-ford-c-frick-award-finalists-1.2025751

I don't know anything about Doucet. Can someone here tell me more about him?

As a teenager I would listen to Expos games in French on the radio while playing video games. Jacques Doucet is pretty much the voice of the Expos for me.

Thermo, NoTime, Francis: let's go, we (and we alone) can fix this!

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/instagraphs/job-posting-toronto-blue-jays-multiple-entry-level-opportunities/

#6 in that bulleted list: "Help us locate Alek Manoah."

all these job postings requiring interpersonal skills can piss right off

Think about it -- if the Rangers don't crush the Jays in that four game sweep in Rogers Centre, then they probably don't make the playoffs. A series split could have given the Jays 92 wins and the fifth seed, then they face the Rays instead of the Twins in the first round. The Rangers path to the WS could have been ours. Clearly the Rangers' success is all thanks to us and the Jays are the uncrowned 2023 champions of baseball.

Trust me on this, the math checks out.

I thought about it--you're right.

everything except expecting the jays to beat the rays lol

Both Teoscar and Gurriel Jr. are back on the market. Can't see the Jays suddenly reversing their pitching/defense commitment, though.

It’s kind of shocking how bad Teo’s defence is, because he never looked embarrassing out there or anything

Bautista debuting on the HOF ballot got me thinking about Joe Carter...Very different players, and Bautista was better by almost any measure (except, I guess, 100-RBI seasons, even though Carter's exhibit #1 in how tainted those can be), but they're linked by three things: 1) two most famous Jays HRs ever; 2) 300-something HR; 3) Bautista, like Carter, will likely be one-and-out.

I forgot that Carter was a one and done. He was a very famous player with borderline HOF counting stats, I thought that he'd hang around the ballot for a few years. bWAR isn't friendly to him -- terrible defense and low OBPs (although WAR wasn't around when he was HOF eligible).

i think he was a 30/30 guy too!

Looking at the list of one-and-dones from Carter's year (2004), and it's pretty impressive: along with Joe you had Dennis Martinez, Dave Stieb, Jimmy Key, Kevin Mitchell, Doug Drabek, Terry Pendleton, and Cecil Fielder. (Molitor and Eckersley both went in that year in their first try.)

That is amazing. Ranking that 2004 ballot by WAR, you get HOFers at #1-#6, then Tommy John at #7, then four O&Ders at #8-#11 (Hernandez, Stieb, Key, Martinez). Further down the WAR-ranked ballot: five additional HOFers.

In WAR7, Stieb is fourth, behind only Trammell, Sandberg, and Blyleven.

Thing is, that was a huge year for iconic Jays entering the ballot with Carter, Stieb, and Key. (Plus Molitor and Fielder debuting.) And I don't have any recollection of that.

Blue Jays "Open To" Alek Manoah Trade Offers https://t.co/dfOxfamI0o pic.twitter.com/F47ZenCb3W

— MLB Trade Rumors (@mlbtraderumors) November 20, 2023

yeah, that's a big "who knows?" with Manoah. I can't imagine Ryu will be back.

TSN reporter Scott Mitchell has sparked the rumour that Jays are "big players" on Ohtani, and a possible trade scenario involving basically Bichette for Juan Soto, Bo apparently plannning to seek free agency over an extension. Not sure how this trade would make sense. Would be exciting to have another blockbuster trade like the Dec 1990 Jays/Padres deal, but it's all conjecture anyway.

I don't know their contract particulars, but all things being equal, what sane organization wouldn't take Soto for Bo in a millisecond?

Soto's even a few months younger.

Feel like Pads might be more interested in Vladdy, they don’t need another shortstop but they really need a 1B/DH

Vlad the Greeter? Think I'd make that one in a millisecond too.

(Basically, there are only a handful of players in the game I wouldn't trade for Soto.)

The Manoah story looks like a big load of nothing IMO, the sources are "rival executives" inquiring about SP pitching depth, and obviously the Jays have plenty of that. Obviously any team that talks to Toronto about pitching is going to ask about Manoah. There's nothing to this story at all.

I don't listen radio games very often these days, which is sometimes a matter of access; most games are carried on 980 out of London, but not all of them. So I don't really have an opinion on this:

https://www.bluebirdbanter.com/2023/11/29/23981650/sportsnet-releases-ben-wagner

I thought he was great, in my limited sample of radio games over the years.

Howarth called the decision "Embarrassing"
https://torontosun.com/sports/baseball/toronto-blue-jays/embarrassing-legendary-blue-jays-broadcaster-jerry-howarth-rips-rogers-for-ben-wagners-dismissal

I've got to figure that if Howarth pointedly speaks out, it much be as bad as he says. (My first thought yesterday was, "Is there some transgression here?" Just firing your radio guy with no specific reason given is odd indeed.)

i liked him. was surprised tho, to see the jays subreddit was sort of mixed on the matter. expected a lot more table flipping

Sources: Matt Chapman is en route to Toronto today.