2020 awards thread

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it's gonna be weird.

barring catastrophe, AL CY would appear to be bieber. NL CY currently between darvish and degrom (fried has a shot but is missing at least one start with a back issue).

NL MVP tatis. AL MVP . . . i dunno! feel like trout is in the lead, but rendon might actually be more valuable (stats are hating trout's defense this year), tim anderson is in there, etc.

AL ROY: robert vs. lewis down to the wire. NL ROY: cronenworth, i guess, though devin williams will get votes for sheer outlandishness

comeback player: wil myers? andrew heaney?

MOY: charlie montoyo!

mookieproof, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 19:37 (two months ago) link

I don’t know any Jays fans that like Montoyo.

FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 9 September 2020 21:03 (two months ago) link

fangraphs had the jays finishing five games under .500; it's all about beating expectations

tbf, they probably won't beat expectations as much as the orioles will

mookieproof, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 21:07 (two months ago) link

Betts looks like a good MVP bet too.

clemenza, Thursday, 10 September 2020 00:45 (two months ago) link

Ya, that is how it works these days. And I usually dont get into the whole armchair managing act myself, but a lot of the stuff Montoyo does makes no sense to me (fucking sitting Gurriel today for example). I think they’ve been winning despite Montoyo.

FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 10 September 2020 00:45 (two months ago) link

MOY is a dumb award 99% of the time

℺ ☽ ⋠ ⏎ (✖), Thursday, 10 September 2020 00:48 (two months ago) link

Ya. Maybe like 3/4 of the time it goes to the lump of flesh managing the best collection players.

FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 10 September 2020 00:52 (two months ago) link

it's a dumb award for sure, but it doesn't generally go to the guys managing the biggest payrolls/best players

anyway fuck you i love charlie montoyo and you're gonna have to do better than 'gurriel got a day off' to slander him in my eyes

mookieproof, Thursday, 10 September 2020 01:34 (two months ago) link

comeback player: wil myers?

i don't have a better candidate, but was myers ever "there" to come back from?

Karl Malone, Thursday, 10 September 2020 03:33 (two months ago) link

it's a tough one! he used to be decent every other year, then he signed for way too much with the padres and sucked, and now he's slugging .600+ in a month of action. anyway he's now out for three weeks with a broken finger, so i have no clue

mookieproof, Thursday, 10 September 2020 03:57 (two months ago) link

'there' is always hard

mookieproof, Thursday, 10 September 2020 03:59 (two months ago) link

hosmer would've been a good one before he got hurt

℺ ☽ ⋠ ⏎ (✖), Thursday, 10 September 2020 04:33 (two months ago) link

i don't know how these awards work but jason heyward currently has career high avg, obp, slg, and ops

na (NA), Thursday, 10 September 2020 13:18 (two months ago) link

oops, i meant hosmer when i wrote wil myers. which is why several of my posts make less sense than usual

mookieproof, Thursday, 10 September 2020 14:28 (two months ago) link

hosmer makes more sense, i think, although for it seems like he's in contention for the comeback award every other year.

heyward's a good suggestion too! his hitting made it back to league average last year, and he seems to be crushing it this year

Karl Malone, Thursday, 10 September 2020 15:07 (two months ago) link

Isn't Darvish the obvious Comeback Player of the Year? Or would winning the CY rule that out?

clemenza, Thursday, 10 September 2020 17:37 (two months ago) link

he really made his comeback between the first and second halves of last season

na (NA), Thursday, 10 September 2020 18:23 (two months ago) link

He did have a good second half...Not sure if the voters look at splits, though; I think I'd be inclined to vote for him.

clemenza, Thursday, 10 September 2020 18:44 (two months ago) link

he was worth 3.5 bWAR/2.6 fWAR and had a 108 ERA+ in 2019. too good

hosmer, otoh, was legitimately below replacement level last year

mookieproof, Thursday, 10 September 2020 19:04 (two months ago) link

Yeah--even looked at without splits, that's too much value for the award.

clemenza, Thursday, 10 September 2020 20:30 (two months ago) link

NL MVP tatis.

oddly, he might not even be the best offensive (or defensive!) SS on his team.

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Saturday, 19 September 2020 04:54 (two months ago) link

events have taken a hand

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-national-league-mvp-race-is-wide-open

mookieproof, Monday, 21 September 2020 15:07 (two months ago) link

wonder if tatis will lose out bc he's young enough to have plenty more chances to win it moving forward

na (NA), Monday, 21 September 2020 15:58 (two months ago) link

They list the "best player on the best team" rationale for Betts, but they don't mention the "best player on the surprise team" rationale for Tatis.

clemenza, Tuesday, 22 September 2020 00:52 (two months ago) link

you're the guy who likes players to 'finish strong' tho

we only have so many tropes to select from

mookieproof, Tuesday, 22 September 2020 01:12 (two months ago) link

I'd be inclined to vote for Betts myself--just mentioning what seems like an obvious (and parallel) argument to the one they mentioned for Betts.

clemenza, Tuesday, 22 September 2020 02:06 (two months ago) link

And honestly, I'd probably loosen up on the finishing-strong idea (which I do believe in) in a thumbnail season like this one. You've got to start your strong finish about three days into the season.

clemenza, Tuesday, 22 September 2020 02:07 (two months ago) link

always be finishing

brooklyn suicide cult (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 22 September 2020 13:02 (two months ago) link

he still shouldn't beat cronenworth, but devin williams has some bonkers numbers: 25 IP, 1 ER, 6 H, 52 K, 0.35 ERA, 1270 ERA+

mookieproof, Wednesday, 23 September 2020 19:33 (two months ago) link

read about him on Fangraphs this week; was unaware

brooklyn suicide cult (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 23 September 2020 19:51 (two months ago) link

Was looking at Corey Seager...I've been thinking Betts for a while, but I'm puzzled as to why Betts has the slightly higher offensive bWAR.

Seager: 14 HR, .321/.374/.611, 164 OPS+, 2.3 oWAR
Betts: 16 HR, .301/.372/.587, 157 OPS+, 2.4 oWAR

They're on the same team, so no park considerations, just positional, and I thought a SS has an edge over a RF there. Betts has 20 more PA. I don't get it.

clemenza, Wednesday, 23 September 2020 20:04 (two months ago) link

i suspect that's just the 20 more PA -- can't think of any other reason

unfortunate that juan soto missed a dozen games -- he leads the majors in OBP/SLG/OPS and is only two points behind freddie for the NL batting title

mookieproof, Wednesday, 23 September 2020 20:17 (two months ago) link

Does bWAR (or oWAR, I guess) take baserunning into consideration?

Sometimes I wish b-r and fangraphs would both put infographics explaining what their WAR takes into account on every stats page

Karl Malone, Wednesday, 23 September 2020 20:45 (two months ago) link

That could just be their logos

Karl Malone, Wednesday, 23 September 2020 20:46 (two months ago) link

unfortunate that juan soto missed a dozen games

― mookieproof, Wednesday, September 23, 2020 1:17 PM (one hour ago)

due to a false positive too which hurts even more.

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Wednesday, 23 September 2020 21:29 (two months ago) link

fangraphs now has darvish (69 IP), degrom (63 IP) and corbin burnes (56 IP) tied with 2.6 fWAR. bauer (65 IP) and max fried (55 IP) have the ERAs to join them, but not the FIPs . . . although fried is 7-0 and hasn't allowed a homer(!)

degrom leads in strikeouts and has been better than he was when he won last year. i don't know if the chance to make it three in a row helps or hurts him, though i'd guess the latter.

assuming they all pitch relatively well in their final starts, i'm not sure how one differentiates them. burnes' and fried's fewer innings will probably hurt, but of course in theory they've generated just as much value.

xp yeah soto's about to go on a pujols-like run where he's such a good hitter that his defense barely even matters

mookieproof, Wednesday, 23 September 2020 21:56 (two months ago) link

Does bWAR (or oWAR, I guess) take baserunning into consideration

Clear edge to Betts there, but I just assumed baserunning was part of the calculation for oWAR--offense is run scoring, and it's part of that. (SB/CS, at least; not sure if bases gained/lost on the basepaths figure in.)

clemenza, Wednesday, 23 September 2020 23:44 (two months ago) link

James always had two versions of RC, the SB version and non-SB version, based on a different number of outs. Actually, there were three:

per 25.5 outs: the basic version
per 26.0 outs: SB/CS added
per 27.0 outs: sacrifices, HBP, everything else added

clemenza, Wednesday, 23 September 2020 23:46 (two months ago) link

if you hover your cursor over "oWAR" on anyone's bbref page it'll pop up a window that shows you everything that goes into it

, Thursday, 24 September 2020 00:53 (two months ago) link

also

although fried is 7-0 and hasn't allowed a homer(!)

welp!

, Thursday, 24 September 2020 00:54 (two months ago) link

Are there any other cases of a reigning healthy MVP betting 7th for most of the season?

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, 24 September 2020 03:28 (two months ago) link

Pete Rose 1974?

Karl Malone, Thursday, 24 September 2020 05:21 (two months ago) link

lol, thanks auto-correct

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, 24 September 2020 05:30 (two months ago) link

big game from bauer last night

mookieproof, Thursday, 24 September 2020 15:00 (two months ago) link

I honestly did not think he had another big season in him

FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 24 September 2020 15:05 (two months ago) link

another comeback candidate: salvador perez

His 177 wRC+ would be the 2nd best by an #MLB catcher since 2000, trailing only Mike Napoli's 179 in 2011 with Texas.

He's done that in just 140 PAs, missed the first 10 days of Spring 2.0 due to Covid, spent 24 days on the IL due to an eye injury, and coming off TJ surgery.

— Nate Rowan (@njrowan) September 24, 2020

mookieproof, Thursday, 24 September 2020 15:15 (two months ago) link

Soto overtook Freeman in BA which makes him MLB leader in all three slashes.

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, 24 September 2020 15:36 (two months ago) link

still trails lemahieu. but yeah

mookieproof, Thursday, 24 September 2020 15:57 (two months ago) link

whoops, NL then

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, 24 September 2020 16:01 (two months ago) link

we have the triple crown for AVG(so-so stat)/RBI(less useful stat)/HR(we all love dingers) – is there a term for AVG/OPB/SLG?

FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 24 September 2020 16:39 (two months ago) link

yep, slash triple crown

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, 24 September 2020 16:50 (two months ago) link

isnt it common knowledge that Bauer has been throwing doctored pitches all year?

brooklyn suicide cult (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 24 September 2020 18:00 (two months ago) link

All of Devin Williams's Swing/Miss or Called Strikes on his Changeup from this season (so far).

Pitching Porn.
👇https://t.co/kpi4F8TRud

— Rob Friedman (@PitchingNinja) September 23, 2020

mookieproof, Thursday, 24 September 2020 19:53 (two months ago) link

I wonder if there have been more slash triple crowns vs traditional.

FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 24 September 2020 20:21 (two months ago) link

I'd assume yes, just because RBIs are situational/luck-based whereas pure slash is not.

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, 24 September 2020 20:28 (two months ago) link

xps those salvador stats probably came after his game last night, where he already had 2 HRs and 5 RBI off of Carlos Martinez when i turned out around the 4th inning, before Martinez came out of the game with an injury.

Karl Malone, Thursday, 24 September 2020 22:15 (two months ago) link

so yes, way more slash triple crown winners. 47 of them vs 18 regular. the first person to win it: Piano Legs Gore.

FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Friday, 25 September 2020 13:37 (two months ago) link

I doubt it will happen, but if Bauer were to win the Cy Young, it would be the first time that award was won by a Reds pitcher. I'd figure Bucky Walters might have won that award if they had it back in the late 30s, as he won an MVP and the pitching triple crown.

The Padres have had four different winners.

Kind of a fluky thing when you think about it.

earlnash, Saturday, 26 September 2020 00:36 (two months ago) link

Well now I’m trying to guess who the four Padres are.

FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Saturday, 26 September 2020 00:46 (two months ago) link

trevor hoffman, andy benes and tony gwynn iirc

mookieproof, Saturday, 26 September 2020 01:39 (two months ago) link

where have you gone, Randy Jones

brooklyn suicide cult (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 26 September 2020 02:03 (two months ago) link

surely one for Trevor Hoffman

brooklyn suicide cult (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 26 September 2020 02:05 (two months ago) link

wrong on Hoffman but I correctly remembered the late-career HOFer who won one with SD (first of two seasons there)

brooklyn suicide cult (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 26 September 2020 02:12 (two months ago) link

Phil Niekro should've won that year, only time he led the league's pitchers in WAR*

*Awards blow

brooklyn suicide cult (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 26 September 2020 02:19 (two months ago) link

it's okay -- the mets have a no-hitter and the padres don't

mookieproof, Saturday, 26 September 2020 02:39 (two months ago) link

i also guessed hoffman, benes, and gwynn.

Karl Malone, Saturday, 26 September 2020 15:37 (two months ago) link

Mario Soto or Jose Rijo possibly should have won a CY--they had some great years, though I'd have to check how the timing went.

clemenza, Saturday, 26 September 2020 16:12 (two months ago) link

Probably behind a paywall, but Jayson Stark's picks:

http://theathletic.com/2090616/2020/09/25/stark-handing-out-my-2020-awards-from-cy-young-to-cy-yuk-mvp-to-lvp/

(Abreu and Freeman, Bieber and Bauer.)

I read that awful underrated/overrated book of his, so not particularly a fan.

clemenza, Saturday, 26 September 2020 16:20 (two months ago) link

Rijo led Maddux p comfortably in WAR in '93.

brooklyn suicide cult (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 26 September 2020 16:47 (two months ago) link

Yeah, I looked it up...There was a good argument to be made for Soto in '82 or '83, but it wasn't clear-cut either year (he slightly trailed Rogers in '82 and Denny in '83 in bWAR; Denny won, Rogers finished second).

clemenza, Saturday, 26 September 2020 17:04 (two months ago) link

on the other side of that, fWAR puts soto 8th for '83, behind:


Steve Carlton 7.4
John Denny 5.8
Rick Rhoden 5.0
Steve Rogers 4.9
Jerry Reuss 4.8
Atlee Hammaker 4.6
John Candelaria 4.5
Mario Soto 4.5
Larry McWilliams 4.3
Fernando Valenzuela 4.2

Karl Malone, Saturday, 26 September 2020 17:18 (two months ago) link

poor steve carlton

Karl Malone, Saturday, 26 September 2020 17:19 (two months ago) link

Poor Atlee Hammaker! (Seven earned runs in 0.2 innings at that year's AS Game.)

clemenza, Saturday, 26 September 2020 17:23 (two months ago) link

truly, poor atlee hammaker. i have to admit that i didn't even recognize his name!

Karl Malone, Saturday, 26 September 2020 17:27 (two months ago) link

look at all those pirates

in the last 25 years, exactly two pirate pitchers have topped larry mcwilliams' 4.3 fWAR in a season -- gerrit cole in 2015 (5.1) and oliver perez in 2004 (4.5)

mookieproof, Saturday, 26 September 2020 21:05 (two months ago) link

well, i think degrom is now out of the NL cy equation : /

mookieproof, Saturday, 26 September 2020 21:12 (two months ago) link

Jake Peavy! I'm also guessing Gaylord Perry, which is probably a longshot because he played for so many teams.

NoTimeBeforeTime, Saturday, 26 September 2020 23:25 (two months ago) link

Yup. Those are the easy ones.

FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Saturday, 26 September 2020 23:25 (two months ago) link

I see now that I'm a day late on this trivia question and they everyone has looked up the answer by now ... carry on.

NoTimeBeforeTime, Saturday, 26 September 2020 23:27 (two months ago) link

I assume Brandon Lowe will be Top 5 in AL MVP?

clemenza, Sunday, 27 September 2020 21:39 (two months ago) link

Using the ILB fantasy league categories as guidelines:

NL MVP: Freeman
AL MVP: JRamirez
NL CY: Darvish
AL CY: Bieber
NL ROY: Dustin May
AL ROY: Kyle Lewis (barely edging Luis Robert & Cristian Javier)

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Monday, 28 September 2020 21:37 (two months ago) link

Name them after Frank Robinson, the only player to win in both leagues. https://t.co/Nwa9syw0wJ

— Richard M. Nixon (@dick_nixon) October 2, 2020

brooklyn suicide cult (Dr Morbius), Friday, 2 October 2020 22:55 (two months ago) link

The awards will be nameless in 2020.

honestly, this is the first time i learned they had a name!

idkwtf (Karl Malone), Friday, 2 October 2020 22:57 (two months ago) link

i didnt know til this year. Mike Schmidt got some ink for pushing for the change.

brooklyn suicide cult (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 3 October 2020 00:00 (one month ago) link

two weeks pass...

Another well deserved award for @ncboomstick23!

Nelson Cruz has been named the 2020 Marvin Miller Man of the Year, an award voted on by his peers as the player they "most respect based on his leadership on the field and in the community." Congrats Nellie! #MNTwins pic.twitter.com/WALetzuOyK

— Minnesota Twins (@Twins) October 22, 2020

mookieproof, Thursday, 22 October 2020 18:09 (one month ago) link

I don't think you can say for sure whether Cruz will be mostly remembered for the eight home runs or the play in game 6 until some time passes.
― clemenza, Saturday, October 29, 2011 12:07 PM

Seeing as nobody's blaming him *now* for blowing the game, it's safe to say that he won't be remembered for it...Let's agree to revive the thread in five years and discuss it then.
― NoTimeBeforeTime, Saturday, October 29, 2011 2:48 PM (Two different posts joined together)

We have a date. Between two days of perspective and five years, I'll go for the five years.
― clemenza, Saturday, October 29, 2011 5:12 PM

Nine years later: NoTime was right, I was wrong.

clemenza, Friday, 23 October 2020 00:18 (one month ago) link

Funny how you revived this the day before a more memorable all-time defensive screw up in the WS.

NoTimeBeforeTime, Sunday, 25 October 2020 06:45 (one month ago) link

I wonder if there was even one baseball fan, in 2011, who thought that Cruz (31 at the time) would go on to hit 300+ HR.

clemenza, Sunday, 25 October 2020 08:19 (one month ago) link

When he hit free agency, the consensus was you'd be crazy to give him a multi-year deal and overpay for 25-30 HR/year (with a .300 OBP and bad defense, assuming that his skills didn't fall off a cliff in his mid-30's). And somehow he ended up on the shortlist of the greatest 40-year old hitters ever.

NoTimeBeforeTime, Sunday, 25 October 2020 08:31 (one month ago) link

Holy shxx the Rays won game 4? I figured it was done and turned it off.

earlnash, Sunday, 25 October 2020 15:07 (one month ago) link

How could you turn off a back and forth game like that?!

FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Sunday, 25 October 2020 18:13 (one month ago) link

Liam Hendricks wins Reliever of the Year

1.4 fWAR (2nd in MLB RPs to Devin Williams)
1.1 bWAR (2nd in MLB RPs to his teammate Jake Diekman*)

*Diekman's fWAR is 0.5, earning him 49th place of all MLP RPs... which is why I'm always fascinated to compare these two sites.

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Monday, 26 October 2020 22:16 (one month ago) link

two weeks pass...

1.4 fWAR (2nd in MLB RPs to Devin Williams)

Williams takes NL ROY

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 10 November 2020 01:05 (three weeks ago) link

Lewis unanimous in the AL.

FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 10 November 2020 04:34 (three weeks ago) link

god bless devin williams but ffs he threw 27 innings

mookieproof, Tuesday, 10 November 2020 04:39 (three weeks ago) link

Did he ever.

FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 10 November 2020 04:46 (three weeks ago) link

yeah it was the one bright spot of our season come on

frogbs, Tuesday, 10 November 2020 04:48 (three weeks ago) link

he was the one bright spot of 5% of your season

mookieproof, Tuesday, 10 November 2020 04:55 (three weeks ago) link

yeah that's right

frogbs, Tuesday, 10 November 2020 04:59 (three weeks ago) link

AL MVP: Abreu!

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Friday, 13 November 2020 00:09 (two weeks ago) link

Anyone predict that? Clemenza? Morbs?

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Friday, 13 November 2020 00:09 (two weeks ago) link

Seems like a pretty good vote. Freeman surprised me--I thought it'd be Betts or Tatis.

clemenza, Friday, 13 November 2020 14:15 (two weeks ago) link

One man’s mistake is another man’s claim to an NL MVP vote. Thanks Rick! Honored by the vote. 😂 https://t.co/wsqJpbHpcN

— Ryan Tepera (@RTepera) November 13, 2020

mookieproof, Friday, 13 November 2020 16:48 (two weeks ago) link


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