the cheating thread

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The #Astros stole signs electronically in 2017 - part of a much broader issue for Major League Baseball. Story with @EvanDrellich.

— Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) November 12, 2019

Astros using cameras to steal signs, a breakdown

— Jomboy (@Jomboy_) November 12, 2019

Astros hitters led baseball with the lowest strikeout rate and highest walk rate ... that just doesn't happen

— Travis Sawchik (@Travis_Sawchik) November 12, 2019

the K% to BB%

— Jonathan Drake (@JonathanDrake) November 12, 2019

mookieproof, Tuesday, 12 November 2019 21:38 (three weeks ago) link

would be interesting to see some analysis on that last graph to see whether or not it really is that significant of an outlier

kind of amusing in retrospect given all the talk about how unlikely it was for the Astros to lose 4 consecutive home games in the World Series. maybe the Nats figured it out.

frogbs, Tuesday, 12 November 2019 21:47 (three weeks ago) link

don't have a sub to The Athletic but apparently Mike Fiers confirming it's true? this seems like kind of a huge deal

frogbs, Tuesday, 12 November 2019 23:00 (three weeks ago) link

Forfit WS title feels fair.

FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 12 November 2019 23:49 (three weeks ago) link

your predictable 'cheating is actually good' take

So the Astros really have been using technology to steal signs, according to The Athletic. As I've written before, that's fine by me.

It shouldn't be considered illegal or unethical. It should be considered smart and savvy.

My column from the playoffs:

— Jason Foster (@ByJasonFoster) November 12, 2019

mookieproof, Wednesday, 13 November 2019 00:22 (three weeks ago) link

this would be thread connections gold if anybody had ILBB on their SNA

El Tomboto, Wednesday, 13 November 2019 00:34 (three weeks ago) link

as Billy Martin and Gaylord Perry would say, it's only cheating if you get caught

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 13 November 2019 02:05 (three weeks ago) link

you all read that '51 Giants book, right?

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 13 November 2019 02:06 (three weeks ago) link

oh my seeking a dodgy edge in baseball, I am getting the vapors

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 13 November 2019 02:25 (three weeks ago) link

if you've got a runner on second relaying signs, i have no problem with that. non-players using expressly forbidden technology to do so is a different story

i don't watch sports to see who can cheat most cleverly

mookieproof, Wednesday, 13 November 2019 03:14 (three weeks ago) link

Astros were 60-21 at home by the way

frogbs, Wednesday, 13 November 2019 14:58 (three weeks ago) link

crazy! wonder of mlb will have the balls to actually dish out actual punishment here.

FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 14 November 2019 19:33 (three weeks ago) link

yep i envision another Mets managerial search

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 14 November 2019 19:34 (three weeks ago) link

In 1900, Reds shortstop Tommy Corcoran grew concerned about how Phillies third-base coach Petie Chiles planted his foot in the same spot for every pitch at Baker Bowl in Philadelphia. Corcoran ran to the spot and began digging. He found a small wooden box with a buzzer attached to a long wire. The wire led to the Phillies’ clubhouse in centerfield, where Phillies infielder Morgan Murphy was using binoculars to steal the catcher’s signs. Murphy would pass along the signs with a Morse-like code: one buzz for a fastball, two for a curve and three for a changeup. Chiles could feel the buzzes with his foot, and he relayed the message to the hitter what was coming.

Suggest Banshee (Hadrian VIII), Friday, 15 November 2019 11:59 (three weeks ago) link

In the first link of the Astros' front office to the sign-stealing scandal, Kevin Goldstein, a special assistant to Houston GM Jeff Luhnow, suggested in an email scouts spy on dugouts before the playoffs -- and potentially use cameras to get signs. News:

— Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) November 17, 2019

Andy K, Sunday, 17 November 2019 12:46 (three weeks ago) link

shoulda stayed at Baseball Prospectus I guess

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 17 November 2019 13:28 (three weeks ago) link

It is pretty hilarious to make a big deal about using all this statistical information in decision making and then turn around and then "just put someone out in centerfield so we can steal some signs" ends up being the topper of the plan. Moneyball indeed.

earlnash, Monday, 18 November 2019 00:58 (three weeks ago) link

Cheating is the new market inefficiency!

FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, 18 November 2019 13:31 (three weeks ago) link

Wonder if the Astros' tanking years made it so that not winning was not an option and pushed ownership/management to green light this sort of behaviour. I always believed it was going to get ugly when you have 5-6 fanbases that are going realize that 3 seasons of straight tanking is going to be for naught and I circle back to the absolute chaos it would be in Houston if they didn't pull it off. Plus, the whole tanking to be great narrative the Astros/Cubs installed has served MLB so well.

Van Horn Street, Monday, 18 November 2019 19:04 (three weeks ago) link

Pro sports in general is pretty much a clown college these days. They could really just get rid of a 1/3 of the teams in each league and probably have a better TV product in the end.

I think pro baseball is a bit of a paper card house as I just don't see how the money adds up anymore in the game. It just does not seem to be that popular yet the money keeps going up, seems like an economic bubble waiting to pop.

earlnash, Tuesday, 19 November 2019 01:20 (two weeks ago) link

According to Nielsen ratings:

In 2019, 12 of the 29 United States-based major league teams were the most popular prime-time broadcast in their market.

An additional seven teams ranked in the top three in prime time.

On cable, 24 major league teams ranked first in their market in prime time.

M.L.B. ranked first over all on cable in every major league market in the United States except Miami.

Suggest Banshee (Hadrian VIII), Tuesday, 19 November 2019 01:35 (two weeks ago) link

good EW episode w/ Paul Dickson on sign stealing thru the ages

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 21 November 2019 03:06 (two weeks ago) link

Someone edited the 2017 #WorldSeries Wikipedia page and awarded the World Series MVP to....the #Astros centerfield camera man. #MLB #Dodgers

— Matt Johnson (@MattJ_Sports) November 21, 2019

Suggest Banshee (Hadrian VIII), Friday, 22 November 2019 13:07 (two weeks ago) link

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