the cheating thread

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The #Astros stole signs electronically in 2017 - part of a much broader issue for Major League Baseball. Story with @EvanDrellich. https://t.co/VyS35fDT5D

— Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) November 12, 2019

Astros using cameras to steal signs, a breakdown pic.twitter.com/rncm6qzXxw

— Jomboy (@Jomboy_) November 12, 2019

Astros hitters led baseball with the lowest strikeout rate and highest walk rate ... that just doesn't happen https://t.co/AL3ifbha1c

— Travis Sawchik (@Travis_Sawchik) November 12, 2019

the K% to BB% pic.twitter.com/GRKCwS2O8o

— Jonathan Drake (@JonathanDrake) November 12, 2019

mookieproof, Tuesday, 12 November 2019 21:38 (two months ago) link

would be interesting to see some analysis on that last graph to see whether or not it really is that significant of an outlier

kind of amusing in retrospect given all the talk about how unlikely it was for the Astros to lose 4 consecutive home games in the World Series. maybe the Nats figured it out.

frogbs, Tuesday, 12 November 2019 21:47 (two months ago) link

don't have a sub to The Athletic but apparently Mike Fiers confirming it's true? this seems like kind of a huge deal

frogbs, Tuesday, 12 November 2019 23:00 (two months ago) link

Forfit WS title feels fair.

FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 12 November 2019 23:49 (two months ago) link

your predictable 'cheating is actually good' take

So the Astros really have been using technology to steal signs, according to The Athletic. As I've written before, that's fine by me.

It shouldn't be considered illegal or unethical. It should be considered smart and savvy.

My column from the playoffs: https://t.co/AhLibqSK8i

— Jason Foster (@ByJasonFoster) November 12, 2019

mookieproof, Wednesday, 13 November 2019 00:22 (two months ago) link

this would be thread connections gold if anybody had ILBB on their SNA

El Tomboto, Wednesday, 13 November 2019 00:34 (two months ago) link

as Billy Martin and Gaylord Perry would say, it's only cheating if you get caught

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 13 November 2019 02:05 (two months ago) link

you all read that '51 Giants book, right?

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 13 November 2019 02:06 (two months ago) link

oh my seeking a dodgy edge in baseball, I am getting the vapors

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 13 November 2019 02:25 (two months ago) link

if you've got a runner on second relaying signs, i have no problem with that. non-players using expressly forbidden technology to do so is a different story

i don't watch sports to see who can cheat most cleverly

mookieproof, Wednesday, 13 November 2019 03:14 (two months ago) link

Astros were 60-21 at home by the way

frogbs, Wednesday, 13 November 2019 14:58 (two months ago) link

crazy! wonder of mlb will have the balls to actually dish out actual punishment here.

FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 14 November 2019 19:33 (two months ago) link

yep i envision another Mets managerial search

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 14 November 2019 19:34 (two months ago) link

In 1900, Reds shortstop Tommy Corcoran grew concerned about how Phillies third-base coach Petie Chiles planted his foot in the same spot for every pitch at Baker Bowl in Philadelphia. Corcoran ran to the spot and began digging. He found a small wooden box with a buzzer attached to a long wire. The wire led to the Phillies’ clubhouse in centerfield, where Phillies infielder Morgan Murphy was using binoculars to steal the catcher’s signs. Murphy would pass along the signs with a Morse-like code: one buzz for a fastball, two for a curve and three for a changeup. Chiles could feel the buzzes with his foot, and he relayed the message to the hitter what was coming.

https://www.si.com/mlb/2019/11/13/houston-astros-sign-stealing

Suggest Banshee (Hadrian VIII), Friday, 15 November 2019 11:59 (two months ago) link

In the first link of the Astros' front office to the sign-stealing scandal, Kevin Goldstein, a special assistant to Houston GM Jeff Luhnow, suggested in an email scouts spy on dugouts before the playoffs -- and potentially use cameras to get signs. News: https://t.co/fmr3kB1KhQ

— Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) November 17, 2019

Andy K, Sunday, 17 November 2019 12:46 (two months ago) link

shoulda stayed at Baseball Prospectus I guess

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 17 November 2019 13:28 (two months ago) link

It is pretty hilarious to make a big deal about using all this statistical information in decision making and then turn around and then "just put someone out in centerfield so we can steal some signs" ends up being the topper of the plan. Moneyball indeed.

earlnash, Monday, 18 November 2019 00:58 (two months ago) link

Cheating is the new market inefficiency!

FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, 18 November 2019 13:31 (two months ago) link

Wonder if the Astros' tanking years made it so that not winning was not an option and pushed ownership/management to green light this sort of behaviour. I always believed it was going to get ugly when you have 5-6 fanbases that are going realize that 3 seasons of straight tanking is going to be for naught and I circle back to the absolute chaos it would be in Houston if they didn't pull it off. Plus, the whole tanking to be great narrative the Astros/Cubs installed has served MLB so well.

Van Horn Street, Monday, 18 November 2019 19:04 (two months ago) link

Pro sports in general is pretty much a clown college these days. They could really just get rid of a 1/3 of the teams in each league and probably have a better TV product in the end.

I think pro baseball is a bit of a paper card house as I just don't see how the money adds up anymore in the game. It just does not seem to be that popular yet the money keeps going up, seems like an economic bubble waiting to pop.

earlnash, Tuesday, 19 November 2019 01:20 (two months ago) link

https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/2019/08/26/baseball-popularity/38a84a9487efa373cf8bf6b9cf6546https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/2019/08/26/baseball-popularity/38a84a9487efa373cf8bf6b9cf654688fb4703c2/attendance_tg-300.jpg

According to Nielsen ratings:

In 2019, 12 of the 29 United States-based major league teams were the most popular prime-time broadcast in their market.

An additional seven teams ranked in the top three in prime time.

On cable, 24 major league teams ranked first in their market in prime time.

M.L.B. ranked first over all on cable in every major league market in the United States except Miami.


https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/10/22/sports/baseball/baseball-popularity-world-series.html

Suggest Banshee (Hadrian VIII), Tuesday, 19 November 2019 01:35 (two months ago) link

good EW episode w/ Paul Dickson on sign stealing thru the ages

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/effectively-wild-episode-1459-the-history-of-sign-stealing/

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 21 November 2019 03:06 (two months ago) link

Someone edited the 2017 #WorldSeries Wikipedia page and awarded the World Series MVP to....the #Astros centerfield camera man. #MLB #Dodgers pic.twitter.com/S6x8q4R3Fd

— Matt Johnson (@MattJ_Sports) November 21, 2019

Suggest Banshee (Hadrian VIII), Friday, 22 November 2019 13:07 (two months ago) link

one month passes...

whoa

BREAKING: Per sources, MLB’s penalties for #Astros include:

*One-year suspensions for GM Jeff Luhnow and manager AJ Hinch.

*Losses of 1st and 2nd round draft picks in both 2020 and ‘21.

*A fine of $5M.

Full story and more context with @EvanDrellich: https://t.co/djvKEYFiC7

— Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) January 13, 2020

mookieproof, Monday, 13 January 2020 18:57 (two weeks ago) link

i'm assuming Luhnow and Hinch can't/won't appeal?

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Monday, 13 January 2020 19:04 (two weeks ago) link

alex cora's gonna get nuked too

mookieproof, Monday, 13 January 2020 19:07 (two weeks ago) link

and Beltran?

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Monday, 13 January 2020 19:07 (two weeks ago) link

beltran will skate because he was a player at the time, and apparently they're not going after the players

mookieproof, Monday, 13 January 2020 19:10 (two weeks ago) link

NICE

Suggest Banshee (Hadrian VIII), Monday, 13 January 2020 19:18 (two weeks ago) link

🥃🐸 pic.twitter.com/vP5A0s59uT

— Trevor Bauer (@BauerOutage) January 13, 2020

reggae mike love (polyphonic), Monday, 13 January 2020 19:21 (two weeks ago) link

wow. honestly i haven't followed all of this very closely. i knew it was serious, but didn't realize the penalties would be like this.

But guess what? Nobody gives a toot!😂 (Karl Malone), Monday, 13 January 2020 19:23 (two weeks ago) link

the question is what if we know about 3 more teams come April

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Monday, 13 January 2020 19:24 (two weeks ago) link

Didn't think Manfred had the stomach for it tbh

losing those draft picks is no joke, even if you're picking 30th

Suggest Banshee (Hadrian VIII), Monday, 13 January 2020 19:25 (two weeks ago) link

if the red sox investigation uncovers anything at all, i think cora might get a lifetime ban

mookieproof, Monday, 13 January 2020 19:30 (two weeks ago) link

In no way did I think there'd be a penalty with teeth, wow.

Guayaquil (eephus!), Monday, 13 January 2020 19:34 (two weeks ago) link

Sweep your own front porch or damage your own dugout monitor.

Andy K, Monday, 13 January 2020 19:39 (two weeks ago) link

Jim Crane says Jeff Luhnow and A.J. Hinch have been dismissed.

— Jake Kaplan (@jakemkaplan) January 13, 2020

mookieproof, Monday, 13 January 2020 20:05 (two weeks ago) link

Wow. Manfred also went after the Astros’ baseball ops culture. He called it "very problematic” and “insular” and "one that valued and rewarded results over other considerations.” I am surprised he would make those points so bluntly in this report.

— Marc Carig (@MarcCarig) January 13, 2020

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Monday, 13 January 2020 20:09 (two weeks ago) link

i knew if i saved this picture on my phone that one day the perfect news cycle would hit pic.twitter.com/tKAuxiZVxB

— ric sanchez (@ricsanchez) January 13, 2020

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Monday, 13 January 2020 21:29 (two weeks ago) link

a lot of people (online) think this still didn't go far enough – but daym if this isn't much harsher than i was expecting!
esp glad Taubman got spanked hard.

can't wait to see what they do to Cora, he may very well get the worst of it.

FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, 13 January 2020 21:42 (two weeks ago) link

well Luhnow is likely done in baseball so it's hard to sketch 'worse'

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Monday, 13 January 2020 21:45 (two weeks ago) link

anyone could hire him on, in theory, after his suspension tho.

FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, 13 January 2020 21:52 (two weeks ago) link

less likely than Hinch i think

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Monday, 13 January 2020 22:17 (two weeks ago) link

luhnow 'accepts responsibility' but was clueless; it was all the fault of 'lower-level employees' and alex cora

Here is Jeff Luhnow's full statement, his first response to today's news. pic.twitter.com/9AbDFEtkbP

— Jared Diamond (@jareddiamond) January 13, 2020

mookieproof, Monday, 13 January 2020 22:52 (two weeks ago) link

Happy new year “bro”. I hope this year you find happiness, clearly the most miserable soul on this app. GOD BLESS ❄️❄️❄️❄️❄️❄️❄️ https://t.co/w4kxR4Ejya

— Lance McCullers Jr. (@LMcCullers43) January 13, 2020

reggae mike love (polyphonic), Monday, 13 January 2020 23:43 (two weeks ago) link

^^^ Clevinger & Bauer went after McCullers but shit's all getting deleted, that's one of the few virtues of twitter embeds I guess. ^^^

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 14 January 2020 00:51 (two weeks ago) link

i think the real lesson we've learned here is: never leave mike fiers off your playoff roster

mookieproof, Tuesday, 14 January 2020 03:12 (two weeks ago) link

Didn't expect people to get fired over this. Sean Payton wasn't fired by the Saints (sorry, football mention on a baseball board) in the headhunting scandal.

Luhnow's "I am not a crook" statement is clearly a lie, but obviously he wants to claim plausible deniability when he looks for another job.

NoTimeBeforeTime, Tuesday, 14 January 2020 04:41 (two weeks ago) link

Different universe, but in the book I'm reading about the '69 Mets, there's a J.C. Martin-related tangent about how the no-hit White Sox used to a) doctor the field around home plate to deaden balls off the bat, and b) keep all their baseballs in special storage so they'd come out feeling like shot puts.

clemenza, Tuesday, 14 January 2020 17:00 (two weeks ago) link

(I think that may turn up in Ball Four somewhere too--it wasn't a secret.)

clemenza, Tuesday, 14 January 2020 17:01 (two weeks ago) link

Cora fired.

FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 15 January 2020 01:36 (one week ago) link

baseball in the 2010s/20s is some bleak shit

call all destroyer, Wednesday, 15 January 2020 02:33 (one week ago) link

life in the 2010s/20s is some bleak shit...the sludge runneth over

cheat lie steal...the american way I suppose

It is still unbelievably hilarious in the wake of all the analytical baseball it still comes down to just f'it we are going to steal some signs.

Really, the perfect way for the city of Enron to get it's champion.

earlnash, Wednesday, 15 January 2020 03:02 (one week ago) link

It is also totally Pete Rose for him to say, "no big deal we all cheated on this stuff" to "this is worse than me betting on baseball" within like 72 hours.

earlnash, Wednesday, 15 January 2020 03:05 (one week ago) link

xp i'm with you man

call all destroyer, Wednesday, 15 January 2020 03:16 (one week ago) link

I think these 20s are oiff to a roaring start!

Suggest Banshee (Hadrian VIII), Wednesday, 15 January 2020 04:04 (one week ago) link

a friend of mine notes this is a victory for the union in a weird way. not going after players because it would drag out forever. unlike the PED scandals where management got off scot-free.

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 15 January 2020 13:44 (one week ago) link

Beltran rumored to be stepping down

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 15 January 2020 20:28 (one week ago) link

lol

“Integrity” is a huge franchise buzzword with the Mets - especially with Fred Wilpon - to the point there is legitimate concern for Carlos Beltran’s job at the moment.

— Mike Puma (@NYPost_Mets) January 15, 2020

mookieproof, Wednesday, 15 January 2020 21:28 (one week ago) link

hmm

Jessica Mendoza is the first Mets employee to publicly address the Astros scandal.

She said she has a problem with whistleblower Mike Fiers going public and telling the world about the Astros’ cheating. https://t.co/nlGnsx3pTs

— Tim Healey (@timbhealey) January 16, 2020

mookieproof, Thursday, 16 January 2020 15:22 (one week ago) link

what a stunning lack of perspective

call all destroyer, Thursday, 16 January 2020 15:30 (one week ago) link

Thank you for your service, Carlos Beltran.

Andy K, Thursday, 16 January 2020 18:11 (one week ago) link

he had a decent run, but a .500 record just isn't going to cut it

omar little, Thursday, 16 January 2020 18:15 (one week ago) link

he lasted longer than wally backman with the d-backs, at least

mookieproof, Thursday, 16 January 2020 18:37 (one week ago) link

uh oh

Beltran's niece tweeting about the buzzers, which matches up with what Ive been told from about 5 different parties. pic.twitter.com/zla70bW0Wu

— Jomboy (@Jomboy_) January 16, 2020

mookieproof, Thursday, 16 January 2020 19:24 (one week ago) link

I don't know if this is a topic of conversation or not (and I can't decode the tweet above): will this cast residual doubt on something like Altuve's MVP (and, way down the road, come up when he goes on the HOF ballot)? I wouldn't think so, but it was the hitters who benefited, after all.

clemenza, Thursday, 16 January 2020 19:48 (one week ago) link

NYC sportstalk radio already fulla Aaron Judge fan bullshit

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 16 January 2020 19:56 (one week ago) link

how is it bullshit

Suggest Banshee (Hadrian VIII), Thursday, 16 January 2020 20:10 (one week ago) link

if true, wow

I know lip reading is your thing but it looks here like he’s saying “camisa, no camisa” pic.twitter.com/4LZyGUSCm4

— Alec Guarino (@AlecGuarinoo) January 16, 2020

Suggest Banshee (Hadrian VIII), Thursday, 16 January 2020 20:16 (one week ago) link

I mean I can't think of any other explanation for this, baseball players love having their shirts ripped off more than anyone

frogbs, Thursday, 16 January 2020 21:54 (one week ago) link

Hade bcz NYY fans of all ppl bitching about needing more trophies

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 16 January 2020 22:00 (one week ago) link

What happened was wrong. I said so. But a lot of you people are out of your minds. Beltran’s family told ESPN they don’t know that person. I think one reason why people keep us around here is we don’t lose our shirt for every unsourced whistle in the wind. pic.twitter.com/bH8mScReWR

— Richard M. Nixon (@dick_nixon) January 16, 2020

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 16 January 2020 22:57 (one week ago) link

wonder if Altuve's device was made by the same company

i'm at a loss pic.twitter.com/XcFXjGeWDU

— Natalie Weiner (@natalieweiner) October 22, 2019

frogbs, Thursday, 16 January 2020 23:22 (one week ago) link

My understanding is that "Beltran's niece" may be a former player, the name is a joke?

Suggest Banshee (Hadrian VIII), Thursday, 16 January 2020 23:39 (one week ago) link

yes I don't want a trophy, that's boring

Suggest Banshee (Hadrian VIII), Thursday, 16 January 2020 23:40 (one week ago) link

*extremely yankees fan voice* wow it’s a shame that the red sox, astros, and mets have all had to fire their managers

k3vin k., Friday, 17 January 2020 00:14 (one week ago) link

Dave Martinez the only WS winning manager who is still managing the team he won the series with.

omar little, Friday, 17 January 2020 00:27 (one week ago) link

As a Dodgers fan I want to tap dance on the Astros grave but there's no fuckin way. Everyone is dirty, imo.

officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Friday, 17 January 2020 00:34 (one week ago) link

It would have been funnier if it was the Cubs.

earlnash, Friday, 17 January 2020 02:48 (one week ago) link

as they pointed out on the EW podcast, it's "early days" for the Stankeehive to be gloating

plz jesus, let the Stankees be next

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 17 January 2020 02:53 (one week ago) link

Early days lol, our two biggest rivals just lost their managers and draft picks and have been branded for history as cheats

Not to mention the expansion team across the river now needs a manager

gloatgloatgloatgloatgloat

Suggest Banshee (Hadrian VIII), Friday, 17 January 2020 03:12 (one week ago) link

expand this, Booby

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 17 January 2020 11:13 (one week ago) link

lol

If you thought this was going away today, you were wrong. Now there’s a call from Congressman Bobby Rush of Illinois for a Congressional Oversight hearing on the MLB cheating scandal. pic.twitter.com/TJlreTHKYr

— Levi Weaver (@ThreeTwoEephus) January 17, 2020

mookieproof, Friday, 17 January 2020 21:54 (one week ago) link

McGwire and Canseco's manager cheated? Damn

reggae mike love (polyphonic), Friday, 17 January 2020 23:05 (one week ago) link

this discussion of "Beltran's niece" etc is p funny

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/effectively-wild-episode-1488-wrinkle-wrinkle-little-star/

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 19 January 2020 15:00 (one week ago) link

Banghazi https://t.co/NpAUb6A6fX

— McNally 🗺 (@LikeTheMaps) January 20, 2020

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Monday, 20 January 2020 18:05 (one week ago) link

lol that EW episode number is cursed..

officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Monday, 20 January 2020 23:02 (one week ago) link

lol

Keuchel apologizes for Astros sign-stealing scandal. Said it was “not like every game we had it going on.” pic.twitter.com/oAS4DewLk5

— Paul Sullivan (@PWSullivan) January 24, 2020

mookieproof, Friday, 24 January 2020 20:56 (four days ago) link

I thought the pitchers would be immune from all this, but I guess they benefited too. Has Verlander said anything? He can get a little self-righteous at times about other people's transgressions.

clemenza, Friday, 24 January 2020 21:55 (four days ago) link

That’s because of his allergies. He’s constantly battling them with the help of Flonase

But guess what? Nobody gives a toot!😂 (Karl Malone), Friday, 24 January 2020 22:02 (four days ago) link


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