rolling retirees: 2018 and beyond

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daniel bard has had enough

Bard would appear in just 13 innings over that four-year span, allowing 35 earned runs while walking 46 and hitting 16 batters. Yet he continued to motor on, trying anything and everything to get back to the big leagues.

https://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2018/1/4/16797700/daniel-bard-retirement

mookieproof, Thursday, 4 January 2018 19:34 (four years ago) link

I remember seeing him at NYY in a late sept/early october game when we first came up and the air went out of the stadium when his name was announced.

YouTube_-_funy_cats.flv (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Friday, 5 January 2018 00:25 (four years ago) link

rolling unretirees

Good to be back in the cage again. The comeback is real. pic.twitter.com/uA8FMjyTjv

— Rafael Palmeiro (@Rafael_Palmeiro) January 5, 2018

mookieproof, Friday, 5 January 2018 22:45 (four years ago) link

former pirate great justin morneau

https://www.twincities.com/2018/01/08/report-justin-morneau-set-to-retire-rejoin-twins-as-special-assistant

mookieproof, Tuesday, 9 January 2018 15:21 (four years ago) link

two weeks pass...

minnesota native and 12-year twin glen perkins

mookieproof, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 16:27 (four years ago) link

mark appel, the top pick in the 2013 draft

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2757009-why-mark-appel-perhaps-the-biggest-bust-in-mlb-history-is-retiring-at-26

mookieproof, Thursday, 1 February 2018 15:04 (three years ago) link

backup catcher eric fryer

mookieproof, Monday, 12 February 2018 15:19 (three years ago) link

xp long way down from the #1 pick

He's excited to play Settlers of Catan or one of his 30 other board games with John, with whom he shares a one-floor home

johnny crunch, Monday, 12 February 2018 16:00 (three years ago) link

Ex-A’s ace Jarrod Parker tells the @sfchronicle he is officially retiring; a look at his life after promising career derailed by injuries: https://t.co/SFb6gVc6K7 via @sfchronicle

— Susan Slusser (@susanslusser) February 13, 2018

mookieproof, Tuesday, 13 February 2018 22:32 (three years ago) link

two weeks pass...

2009 AL ROY Andrew Bailey

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 28 February 2018 15:23 (three years ago) link

former mets great mike pelfrey

12 seasons, 68-103, 4.68 ERA, 1.510 WHIP, 4.8 bWAR, $41m in salary

mookieproof, Wednesday, 7 March 2018 20:53 (three years ago) link

nice work if you can get it

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 7 March 2018 20:54 (three years ago) link

about all you can say is that he didn't give up many homers

mookieproof, Wednesday, 7 March 2018 20:55 (three years ago) link

three weeks pass...

stephen drew

mookieproof, Tuesday, 3 April 2018 15:15 (three years ago) link

wes wilson, a backup catcher who hit .207/.260/.259 in 226 games over seven seasons in the yankee system

mookieproof, Thursday, 5 April 2018 16:53 (three years ago) link

hadn’t really thought about it, but i guess matt holliday is probably done. good career; too bad he pulled a mantle and slipped under .300

mookieproof, Sunday, 8 April 2018 15:01 (three years ago) link

batting average, feh

the ignatius rock of ignorance (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 8 April 2018 21:51 (three years ago) link

one month passes...

Aaron Laffey retired after Wednesday night's game. He had an 18.00 ERA in three starts with the 51s.

— Betsy Helfand (@betsyhelfand) June 7, 2018

MLB career K/9: 4.5

mookieproof, Thursday, 7 June 2018 14:22 (three years ago) link

1,262,200 in career earnings if fangraphs is right

YouTube_-_funy_cats.flv (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Thursday, 7 June 2018 14:24 (three years ago) link

After suffering two concussions in the last eight months while playing in the Detroit Tigers organization, Blaise Salter has voluntarily retired from professional baseball because he fears the long-term risks that could come from brain injuries.

He’s afraid of ending up like his grandfather, Tigers great Bill Freehan, who has Alzheimer’s disease. Salter's only 24 years old.

While this close, loving family is fiercely private and sensitive about Freehan’s condition, Salter acknowledges his grandfather’s condition played a direct role in his decision.

“We are so close,” Salter said. “Seeing him the way his health has been, it’s definitely been an eye opener for me. I saw it firsthand how concussions have affected his life. Obviously, he had way more than I did, with the lack of equipment back in the day. To see that, I really thought about my life. I wanted to do anything I could, to prevent that from happening.”

There is evidence linking brain injuries to a higher risk of developing brain conditions like Alzheimer’s disease, according to the Alzheimer’s Association.

It is not clear how many concussions Freehan suffered during his 15-year Tigers' career, but his family suspects concussions played a role in his condition.

And it was enough for Salter to walk away from baseball.

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/columnists/jeff-seidel/2018/06/07/detroit-tigers-bill-freehan-alzheimers-blaise-salter/682734002/

Andy K, Friday, 8 June 2018 00:28 (three years ago) link

two weeks pass...
two weeks pass...
one month passes...

the first overall pick in the 2006 draft, luke hochevar

not a great career, but at least better than mark appel's

mookieproof, Tuesday, 14 August 2018 15:34 (three years ago) link

i don't know much about him, but why did the royals push him through their minor league system so quickly despite him never putting up good numbers?

Karl Malone, Tuesday, 14 August 2018 15:43 (three years ago) link

there was some weird shit surrounding his drafting -- dodgers took him in the first round in '05, he agreed to sign then changed his mind, then played indy ball in early '06. he didn't sign with the royals until he was almost 23. high-end college pitchers are *supposed* to move quickly, and he made his big league debut a week short of turning 24, but . . . yeah i dunno. probably some combination of the royals being terrible at player development + the fact that hochevar insisted on an MLB contract and was therefore already on the 40-man roster

mookieproof, Tuesday, 14 August 2018 16:12 (three years ago) link

sometimes when a guy like that retires i like to see how much money he raked in for his career.

answer: just shy of 25 million

omar little, Tuesday, 14 August 2018 17:01 (three years ago) link

two weeks pass...

ryan howard

mookieproof, Tuesday, 4 September 2018 14:56 (three years ago) link

Had no idea he wasn't already retired.

NoTimeBeforeTime, Wednesday, 5 September 2018 09:32 (three years ago) link

maybe he was hoping to pull a matt holliday but no one called

mookieproof, Wednesday, 5 September 2018 14:11 (three years ago) link

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dm_RhIrU4AAMM3k.jpg:small

mookieproof, Thursday, 13 September 2018 16:49 (three years ago) link

They said it could never be done

Karl Malone, Thursday, 13 September 2018 17:22 (three years ago) link

a 6.66 K/9 would have been the icing on the cake but I shouldn’t quibble

Karl Malone, Thursday, 13 September 2018 17:23 (three years ago) link

david wright, after one final home series

mookieproof, Thursday, 13 September 2018 18:02 (three years ago) link

Online prices for his presumed last start on 9/29 have skyrocketed in the last few minutes. (I already am going to the NY Film Festival that night.)

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 13 September 2018 18:20 (three years ago) link

actually, not technically retiring but being medically sidelined a la prince fielder

mookieproof, Thursday, 13 September 2018 18:24 (three years ago) link

Gulp.

https://www.mlive.com/tigers/index.ssf/2018/09/victor_martinez_retirement_1.html

Andy K, Sunday, 23 September 2018 01:10 (three years ago) link

two weeks pass...

reliever brad ziegler

mookieproof, Wednesday, 10 October 2018 16:36 (three years ago) link

a little surprising as he was still doing alright and getting saves this year.

Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 11 October 2018 23:26 (three years ago) link

three weeks pass...

Ike Davis has retired https://t.co/ciETMhLWTd

— HardballTalk (@HardballTalk) November 6, 2018

noted former pirate

mookieproof, Tuesday, 6 November 2018 20:39 (three years ago) link

Utley.

Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Saturday, 10 November 2018 04:56 (three years ago) link

At one point I would have thought both those guys were headed for the hall.

Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Saturday, 10 November 2018 06:12 (three years ago) link

they still might be

mookieproof, Saturday, 10 November 2018 06:23 (three years ago) link

It's really too bad that the Twins never won anything with Mauer, they had some good teams but seemed to choke against the Yankees every year. Even with all his injuries he had a hell of a career.

NoTimeBeforeTime, Saturday, 10 November 2018 08:32 (three years ago) link

our beloved adrian beltre

mookieproof, Tuesday, 20 November 2018 15:03 (three years ago) link

:( :( :(

na (NA), Tuesday, 20 November 2018 15:38 (three years ago) link

nooooooo

omar little, Tuesday, 20 November 2018 15:44 (three years ago) link

bartolo : is now the last active* player who played in the majors in the 20th century

mookieproof, Tuesday, 20 November 2018 15:58 (three years ago) link

huh.

Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 20 November 2018 16:40 (three years ago) link

(fWAR = 9.1)

clemenza, Friday, 5 November 2021 22:46 (two months ago) link

no doubt

mookieproof, Friday, 5 November 2021 22:48 (two months ago) link

David Ortiz comes to mind too: 5.2 bWAR, 4.5 fWAR.

clemenza, Friday, 5 November 2021 22:55 (two months ago) link

not really much of a position player, though (ba-dum-dum)

just staying (Karl Malone), Friday, 5 November 2021 22:55 (two months ago) link

He had a very definite position.

https://fansided.com/files/2013/10/7758640-590x401.jpg

clemenza, Friday, 5 November 2021 22:57 (two months ago) link

yeah iirc the (now discredited) list had ortiz like fifth and clemente around 10

mookieproof, Friday, 5 November 2021 23:09 (two months ago) link

I think the main thing Posey offers is balance. He hit for high average, got on base at a high clip, had more pop than other high OBP guys, was a plus defender, a plus-plus framer. It doesn't look that sexy on the page.

Munson is an interesting comparison I think because he never even came close to getting voted in, yet Posey's stats aren't that much better than his. Not because Munson is obviously his peer or obviously better than him. But if you're arguing that Posey is a sure thing, it's interesting that Munson wasn't.

reggae mike love (polyphonic), Friday, 5 November 2021 23:21 (two months ago) link

i think back when Munson was eligible voters cared a lot more about accumulated stats than now. he plays through his decline years and reaches like, 2,500 hits and 200 home runs – he's probably getting in.

FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Friday, 5 November 2021 23:31 (two months ago) link

They're also both comparable to Kirby Puckett--not positionally, obviously, but in other ways: abbreviated career, very popular (before the world knew about the awful things Puckett was doing...I remember Munson being kind of a lovable grump), key position on more than one World Series winner, team leader. Puckett also almost won a ROY (3rd) and almost won an MVP (2nd). Puckett's career bWAR was a little better than the other two (51.2), but his HOF case was also the subject of some debate. Puckett got in first try, Munson drew less than 10%. Not sure why.

Bill James answered an e-mail about Posey today: "I thought Mauer was an obvious Hall of Famer. I don't know that I ever really studied it; I just thought it was obvious. Molina, in my mind, crossed the Hall of Fame threshold this season, 2021; I thought it was debatable whether he was a Hall of Famer or not until this season, but I thought that this season settled the issue.

Posey I think is in the gray area, and I guess I will need to think about it for a year or so before I reach any clear opinion about it, or maybe I never will. He's not an obvious Hall of Famer. And Munson I don't think is a legitimate Hall of Fame candidate, and I don't believe he has any business being in the Hall of Fame discussion."

Typically perverse.

clemenza, Friday, 5 November 2021 23:33 (two months ago) link

(xpost) Very true. It's probably as simple as that.

clemenza, Friday, 5 November 2021 23:33 (two months ago) link

There was also, I think, if you look at Munson's last two seasons, the perception that decline was underway.

clemenza, Friday, 5 November 2021 23:35 (two months ago) link

In 2019, the Modern Era committee didn't come close to voting Munson in, although he *was* on the (bottom of the) list of ten guys they considered. But I think that shows it's not just about the preferences of 1980s voters.

reggae mike love (polyphonic), Friday, 5 November 2021 23:37 (two months ago) link

I'm back to not getting it, then. Sabremetrically, he does well (5.2 bWAR/162 games), and at the time, he was admired and famous (ranked higher among catchers than Fisk and Simmons, I think--after Bench--though maybe I'm not remembering that right).

clemenza, Friday, 5 November 2021 23:44 (two months ago) link

For what it's worth: Munson started the AS game in '74/75/76, Fisk started in '73/77/78. So I guess they were perceived--at least among the fans who voted--as equals.

clemenza, Friday, 5 November 2021 23:50 (two months ago) link

It's wild to look at the damage Fisk did as an old guy. And he was still playing 100 games at catcher at age 43.

reggae mike love (polyphonic), Saturday, 6 November 2021 00:01 (two months ago) link

James got some follow-up on his Munson dismissal today. I know I've posted about this a few times already...The e-mail is polite and carefully laid out, even pointing out that James himself once ranked Munson as the 7th greatest catcher ever in peak value. James's response kind of amazes me.

Of Munson, you say: "I don' t think he is a legitimate Hall of Fame candidate, and I don't believe he has any business being in the Hall of Fame discussion." I'm a bit baffled by this (and no, I'm not, and have never been, a Yankee fan). Looking objectively, he's 15th among C's in WAR, 12th in Jay Jaffe's JAWS system (which is focused on HOF worthiness). 200+ win shares in a career tragically cut short. A ROY, an MVP, 7 time All Star, got MVP votes in 7 seasons. Hit .357 in 30 playoff games. Was the Captain of a legendary team. In your historical Abstract you have him 7th in peak value as of that time.

Given the above, maybe not a HOF'er but not even "in the discussion" seems very harsh. Can you elaborate? If not, I'm just curious, do you make any allowances for the career cut short by a plane crash or do you think that's not relevant?
Asked by: Steve

Answered: 11/6/2021
No disrespect, but I don't think I am obligated to use the same value systems that other people use.

clemenza, Saturday, 6 November 2021 15:10 (two months ago) link

James' career value is dropping like a rock.

Everybody Loves Ramen (WmC), Saturday, 6 November 2021 15:17 (two months ago) link

Stupid reader, why would anyone think win shares are a value system Bill James would use? I mean, sure, James invented them and framed the Abstract entirely around them...

reggae mike love (polyphonic), Saturday, 6 November 2021 19:16 (two months ago) link

No QO to Kershaw. Is he hanging em up?$

FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, 8 November 2021 01:12 (two months ago) link

Yet more Posey-Munson stuff from David Schoenfield (who also compares Posey to Puckett):

https://www.espn.com/mlb/insider/story/_/id/32545582/where-buster-posey-stands-all-great-catchers

How bad is Kershaw's health? (I guess not making a qualifying offer maybe answers that.) Have to believe someone will take a chance on him. If that is it, the Koufax parallels never end...

clemenza, Monday, 8 November 2021 21:47 (two months ago) link

the reddit brain trust seemed to think there's decent odds of him having a multi-year deal soon – but i dunno why you wouldn't still offer up a QO.

FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 9 November 2021 03:30 (two months ago) link

Because the org knows he doesnt want to leave

Its big ball chunky time (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Tuesday, 9 November 2021 04:54 (two months ago) link

I think Dave Fleming dug up an even better point of comparison for Posey than Munson: Mickey Cochrane.

https://www.billjamesonline.com/the_ballad_of_buster_posey/

clemenza, Wednesday, 10 November 2021 02:56 (two months ago) link

Really enjoyed that, thanks for sharing

reggae mike love (polyphonic), Wednesday, 10 November 2021 20:45 (two months ago) link

*not* qualifying kershaw did him a favor, i suspect (other than that it's vaguely insulting)

-if healthy, he *might* be worth $18.4M for one year on the free agent market, but it's questionable, as is his arm
-could be wrong, but i doubt he needs the money
-so i assume he wants years
-had he been qualified, other teams would have had to give up a top draft pick to sign an aging unhealthy pitcher
-now he can sign a lengthier, lower-per-year deal with anyone, with no penalties
-if he really wants to stay with the dodgers, he -- unlike, say, greinke -- will totally take a lesser offer as long as it has the years

otoh god only knows what free agent compensation will be like after rob manfred destroys baseball

mookieproof, Wednesday, 10 November 2021 20:58 (two months ago) link

Joakim Soria

just staying (Karl Malone), Sunday, 14 November 2021 17:56 (two months ago) link

for some reason i have always thought Soria was 35 and on the brink of retirement. since like 2010. i have no idea why. but he's 37 now, and now retired.

just staying (Karl Malone), Sunday, 14 November 2021 17:57 (two months ago) link

dude had a hell of a career for a reliever.

FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Sunday, 14 November 2021 20:44 (two months ago) link

https://theathletic.com/news/royals-reliever-wade-davis-retires-leaves-as-world-series-champ-and-3-time-all-star/C50bQGC2cmTc/

Dominant in 2014-15: 139.1 IP, 0.97 ERA, 71 hits, 7.3 bWAR.

clemenza, Thursday, 25 November 2021 13:11 (two months ago) link

i wonder what his career would have been like if he'd been used as a reliever from the get-go.

FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 25 November 2021 14:04 (two months ago) link

Mysterious Fish, the greatest Japanese baseball mascot of all-time, just announced his retirement. RIP to a legend. cc: @mondomascots https://t.co/zkMRgWcoW5 pic.twitter.com/l0bVn8jAFx

— Eric Casey (@EricCasey) December 5, 2021

mookieproof, Monday, 6 December 2021 15:02 (one month ago) link

andrew romine, who put up 0.6 bWAR over parts of 11 seasons

mookieproof, Saturday, 11 December 2021 16:12 (one month ago) link

That’s a type of accomplishment I guess.

FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Saturday, 11 December 2021 17:12 (one month ago) link

as mark twain wrote, you have to be kind of good to suck badly that bad for that long

my hands are always in my pockets or gesturing. (Karl Malone), Saturday, 11 December 2021 18:08 (one month ago) link

on the bright side, he's the best player in his family. brother austin is at -0.5 over parts of 10 seasons and their dad kevin was -1.4 over parts of seven

mookieproof, Saturday, 11 December 2021 18:21 (one month ago) link

i wonder if they like to talk WAR around the kitchen table during the holidays

my hands are always in my pockets or gesturing. (Karl Malone), Saturday, 11 December 2021 18:23 (one month ago) link

two weeks pass...

kyle seager, age 34

mookieproof, Thursday, 30 December 2021 01:00 (three weeks ago) link

wow, what? wasn't expecting that.

Karl Malone, Thursday, 30 December 2021 04:01 (three weeks ago) link

three-time detroit tiger cameron maybin

mookieproof, Monday, 3 January 2022 23:54 (three weeks ago) link

jon lester

na (NA), Wednesday, 12 January 2022 14:20 (one week ago) link

melky cabrera

na (NA), Friday, 14 January 2022 19:13 (one week ago) link

Travis Snider, who last played in MLB in 2015.

NoTimeBeforeTime, Friday, 14 January 2022 19:17 (one week ago) link

top-10 prospect in 2008-9; career bWAR of 4.3. solid season with the pirates in 2014 tho!

mookieproof, Friday, 14 January 2022 20:18 (one week ago) link

The guy was an absolute beast in the minor. Vlad-like stats and then totally crumbled in the majors. Probably the biggest bust in jays history?

FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Saturday, 15 January 2022 00:17 (one week ago) link

People sometimes ask me.. What is it like to play "Pro Baseball"?

Retirement has brought up a lot of different emotions and memories for me. It's given space to think.

16 seasons in professional baseball. Here is a thread on where it has taken me..

— Travis Snider (@Lunchboxhero45) January 15, 2022

reggae mike love (polyphonic), Saturday, 15 January 2022 19:38 (one week ago) link

I have felt on top of the world. I have felt all alone.

This fucking sport, amirite?

Andy K, Sunday, 16 January 2022 02:13 (one week ago) link

francisco liriano, 38

at three years and $39m, he was the recipient of what is still the pittsburgh pirates’ largest-ever free agent deal; a year and a half into it they had to give the blue jays two prospects just to take him off their hands

mookieproof, Monday, 17 January 2022 21:30 (one week ago) link

One of those prospects, Reese McGuire, was pretty great his first two seasons/150 AB; nothing since, although still with the Jays.

clemenza, Monday, 17 January 2022 23:26 (one week ago) link

and better known for something else

FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 18 January 2022 02:25 (one week ago) link

Parking lot? I'd forgotten!

clemenza, Tuesday, 18 January 2022 03:55 (one week ago) link


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