Joseph Daniel Votto

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a) we love him
b) any six-time winner of the Tip O'Neill Award deserves a thread
c) he rules

mookieproof, Friday, 15 September 2017 04:50 (six years ago) link

Unadjusted, he's in line with Edgar Martinez:

Votto - .313/.428/.540
Edgar - .312/.418/.515

But Votto plays the field, has more power (5 more HR per season), walks even more (10 extra BB a year), and gets a large adjustment for era. His OPS+ is currently ahead of Mays, Aaron, DiMaggio, Wagner...

clemenza, Friday, 15 September 2017 11:45 (six years ago) link

He's even underrated for most of the same reasons that Edgar was!

(OBP is generally an underrated stat, hasn't put up gaudy HR and RBI numbers every year, played for a lot of mediocre teams in a smaller market, etc.)

NoTimeBeforeTime, Friday, 15 September 2017 15:30 (six years ago) link

i love him so

i pasted a fangraphs link yesterday showing that he was the 4th player since 1900 to have a season with a BB% of >18 and a K% of <12 (barry bonds did it 5x, brian giles once, todd helton once)

k3vin k., Friday, 15 September 2017 17:13 (six years ago) link

I wish he played for a team that wasn't blacked out for me.

WilliamC, Friday, 15 September 2017 17:46 (six years ago) link

nomar, Friday, 15 September 2017 17:51 (six years ago) link

(xpost) Not Ted Williams? Unless I'm misunderstanding, looks like he did it a bunch of times.

clemenza, Friday, 15 September 2017 18:08 (six years ago) link

ok, i must have done the table wrong or something. i was surprised with that result too

k3vin k., Friday, 15 September 2017 18:12 (six years ago) link

can someone play around with the fangraphs splits leaderboard? for some reason it's only giving me results back to 2000

k3vin k., Friday, 15 September 2017 18:59 (six years ago) link

I swear there's a Joey Votto default setting: 1-3 with a walk. I'm tempted to go through his game logs for the past couple of years; it feels like every other game he's 1-3 with a walk, although I know that's not true. (He's one of 5-10 players I check daily.)

clemenza, Saturday, 16 September 2017 00:56 (six years ago) link

one of the best hitters of this era, super underrated despite the mvp season

ciderpress, Saturday, 16 September 2017 01:35 (six years ago) link

bbref probably better than fangraphs if you want to go back further than 15 yrs

ciderpress, Saturday, 16 September 2017 01:36 (six years ago) link

Belated welcome to the >18/<12 club, Joey.

Andy K, Saturday, 16 September 2017 01:38 (six years ago) link

one month passes...

He was on as an in-studio commentator here during the WS--as you'd expect, quite good.

Something I just noticed that surprised me. (I like to look at Votto's career box once a week...except for his injury-shortened 2014, a thing of beauty--and that was disastrous only by his own standards; merely mediocre for anyone else).

Jason Giambi (911.8)
Matt Holliday (899.8)
Hal Trosky (899.5)
Ted Kluszewski (898.3)
Magglio Ordonez (897.7)
Larry Walker (887.7)
Mo Vaughn (885.6)
Lance Berkman (880.0)
Tim Salmon (879.0)
Cecil Cooper (878.3)

His career comps through 33 include no HOF'ers (although I still think Walker will get there eventually). Comp lists for guys who are clearly headed to the HOF almost always include at least two or three other players who are already there--sometimes more. I would have thought Votto's would include people like Bagwell and Thome, maybe a couple of older names like Greenberg or Mize or somebody. Hack Wilson does turn up on the other comp list (Votto's stats vs. career stats of others). Maybe his walk rate is so high, that skews everything.

clemenza, Saturday, 4 November 2017 15:10 (six years ago) link

"only" avg 20-25 HR/year @ 1B has something to do w it? which compounds the cartoonishly high walk thing?

YouTube_-_funy_cats.flv (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Saturday, 4 November 2017 15:56 (six years ago) link

ooh i'd love some video of his commentary

k3vin k., Saturday, 4 November 2017 16:41 (six years ago) link

I got a weird feeling Boston is going to make a push to trade for Votto in the off season.

WAR career total wise Votto is past all of those comparable players, it's just that most of the guys on that list tailed off hard at around age 33. It will be interesting to see how Joey Votto does between say 33-38, as that is going to be the difference in between the HOF and the hall of very good.

earlnash, Sunday, 5 November 2017 05:00 (six years ago) link

could see him being bonds 35-40 w/o the power

YouTube_-_funy_cats.flv (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Sunday, 5 November 2017 05:27 (six years ago) link

I've thought about it a bit and I might have said it on a different thread, but I think the player who's style I think was pretty similar to Joey Votto was Carl Yastrzemski. Yaz started out great at a much earlier age and missed less time to injury, so his career counting totals are past what Votto will do, but from what I can recall and looking at the numbers, both had a good eye hit for average, power and drew walks. I'd think Yaz's later career could be something we could see from Votto.

earlnash, Sunday, 5 November 2017 22:43 (six years ago) link

OPS+ for some select players over their first 11 seasons:

161 - Bonds
159 - Mays
159 - McCovey
158 - DiMaggio
*158 - Votto*
157 - Manny
157 - Aaron
157 - Bagwell
154 - Miggy
154 - F. Robinson

— Andrew Simon (@AndrewSimonMLB) November 17, 2017

mookieproof, Friday, 17 November 2017 18:57 (six years ago) link

three weeks pass...

Joey Votto has been awarded the 2017 Lou Marsh Trophy as Canada’s most outstanding athlete of the year.#reds

— Mark Sheldon (@m_sheldon) December 12, 2017

mookieproof, Tuesday, 12 December 2017 18:34 (six years ago) link

three weeks pass...

Cumlative Frequency
Batted Balls by Spray Direction
Votto v MLB (LHH)
Including foul balls
-45 is pure pull, +45 is pure opposite#Statcast
Interesting note: this is a pure "shift"; no clumping of balls being pulled or hit the other way. Just everything shifted 6 degrees.

— Tangotiger (@tangotiger) January 5, 2018

k3vin k., Friday, 5 January 2018 02:31 (six years ago) link

two cumlatives, one tweet

Karl Malone, Friday, 5 January 2018 02:47 (six years ago) link

i have to admit, i'm a little confused by the chart. shouldn't a cumlative percentage chart add up to 100%? maybe batted balls more than 45 degrees in either direction aren't counted?

Karl Malone, Friday, 5 January 2018 02:50 (six years ago) link

three months pass...

make that seven

Congratulations to Joey Votto on winning his 7th James Tip O’Neill award as Canada’s best player. @Reds @baseballcanada

— CDN Baseball HOF (@CDNBaseballHOF) April 13, 2018

mookieproof, Friday, 13 April 2018 21:52 (six years ago) link

Votto's played nine full-time seasons, and they've all been good-to-(eight of them)-great. I'm surprised he didn't win all nine. They must have given one to Morneau, the other I don't know.

clemenza, Saturday, 14 April 2018 11:49 (six years ago) link

Ya. I’m trying to guess who else... Russ Martin maybe?

Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Saturday, 14 April 2018 11:54 (six years ago) link

List of winners:

Morneau got it in 2008, Votto's first full year. They were pretty close, but Morneau was probably better.

Jason Bay got it in 2009--Votto was better

Votto split the award in 2011 with John Axford--Votto was better.

Morneau won again in 2014, when Votto missed half the season.

clemenza, Saturday, 14 April 2018 14:41 (six years ago) link

Wtf @ Axford?!

Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Saturday, 14 April 2018 14:55 (six years ago) link

Probably because of those amazing 46 saves he earned by throwing a few fastballs every couple days.

omar little, Saturday, 14 April 2018 15:31 (six years ago) link

votto loves his slow starts. was awful in spring training and has been sub-replacement so far this year

k3vin k., Sunday, 15 April 2018 04:44 (six years ago) link

wish i were a mod so i could ban you from this thread

mookieproof, Sunday, 15 April 2018 04:56 (six years ago) link


mookieproof, Sunday, 15 April 2018 05:10 (six years ago) link

I gotta bad feeling if the Reds continue on their implosion path the club ownership might throw in the towel and trade Votto for as much as they can get.

To me, it seems a no brainer for a club with a situation like the Red Sox might try to deal to get Votto. He would be their ideal kind of hitter. Marketing wise, I think Votto in a big market (if he wanted to do it) could be huge especially with the hitting legacy in Boston.

Seems like the kinda deal the Blue Jays might also do.

I think it possible.

earlnash, Sunday, 15 April 2018 08:19 (six years ago) link

Would love to have him in Toronto, of course, but I doubt the timing's right. Smoak continues to play well on the cheap--and the guys in charge are cheap--and Donaldson's health issues relegate him to DH more and more. And, while Guerrero's untouchable, I wouldn't want the Reds to pry Bichette away in a deal.

clemenza, Sunday, 15 April 2018 12:15 (six years ago) link

I think his contract makes him really hard to move. I love Votto but no one is going to give up a Vlad or Bichette level talent to pay Joey that much money over his decline years.

Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Sunday, 15 April 2018 14:07 (six years ago) link

I wouldn’t even want to part with a Teoscar.

Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Sunday, 15 April 2018 14:21 (six years ago) link

i don't think you'd have to give up much in the way of prospects to get votto -- just a willingness to pay his enormous salary

mookieproof, Sunday, 15 April 2018 18:28 (six years ago) link

3-3 with a homer, a double, and 2 walks today. wRC+ back to 130 all of the sudden

k3vin k., Saturday, 28 April 2018 04:10 (five years ago) link

Another classic from Joey Votto. I’ll never understand how people don’t like this man.

“Shout out to Canada.”

— Aaron Woods (@AaronWoods1410) April 28, 2018

Andy K, Saturday, 28 April 2018 18:42 (five years ago) link

"Below zero Celsius shout out to Canada."

That's even better.

It is good to see how much confidence Votto has developed on TV over the years. I think he has a career in broadcasting if he wants it when done.

earlnash, Saturday, 28 April 2018 18:59 (five years ago) link

How many of the great hitters, Votto type players, ended up being good hitting coaches? Managers?

Van Horn Street, Saturday, 28 April 2018 23:32 (five years ago) link

Joe Torre was a pretty darn good hitter. Won an MVP and a batting title.

earlnash, Sunday, 29 April 2018 00:20 (five years ago) link

Yeah, lots...
Molitor, Mattingly, Baker, who is that guy who owns the Marlins again?

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Sunday, 29 April 2018 00:30 (five years ago) link

Votto type players

Not sure if any of those guys are Votto-type players, though--Mattingly in his prime would be the closest. Ted Williams and Frank Robinson weren't particularly successful as managers; Ruth waited around for a call that never came.

clemenza, Sunday, 29 April 2018 01:34 (five years ago) link

Yeah i'm thinking hitting first mad scientists (135 wrc+ career), Ted Williams and Frank Robinson fit that description. One that seems to have been rather successful is Reggie Jackson. Molitor isn't too far, that being said. Looking if they are able to share their insights in a structured way.

Van Horn Street, Sunday, 29 April 2018 01:44 (five years ago) link

For some reason I was under the impression Reggie Jackson had been a coach (bench or hitting) with the Yankees, but he was not.

Frank Howard did have a good coaching career.

Van Horn Street, Sunday, 29 April 2018 01:47 (five years ago) link


NoTimeBeforeTime, Sunday, 29 April 2018 03:43 (five years ago) link

i know everyone can do this, everyone on earth, with various people that are slightly younger than them but have accomplished so much more, and much more quickly. so let's let out a big ooooof, just let it all air out in the room

Bruce Stingbean (Karl Malone), Friday, 27 May 2022 02:04 (one year ago) link

I recently had a mini breakdown upon realizing that joey gallo was in sixth grade while I was a high school senior

, Friday, 27 May 2022 06:24 (one year ago) link

one month passes...
four weeks pass...

in a few minutes he will set a new record for games played by a canadian (passing larry walker)

mookieproof, Sunday, 14 August 2022 17:37 (one year ago) link

Out for the year:

He's signed through next year, so I guess he'll come back, but I don't know. I'm sure he doesn't want to go out like this. He turns 39 in a few weeks.

clemenza, Wednesday, 17 August 2022 20:47 (one year ago) link

i think you meant this one:

and yeah, he strikes me as someone who would want another chance to end on a high note

Bruce Stingbean (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 17 August 2022 22:39 (one year ago) link

I didn’t know I was hurt. Thought I just stunk.

— Joey Votto (@JoeyVotto) August 20, 2022

mookieproof, Saturday, 20 August 2022 03:09 (one year ago) link

one month passes...

This is so awesome.

Joey Votto (out for the season) is walking around the stands at the @Reds game. He’s hanging with fans, taking selfies, signing autographs, and sitting with kids to watch with them.

— Ben Verlander (@BenVerlander) September 21, 2022

Spottie, Thursday, 22 September 2022 00:04 (one year ago) link

five months pass...


— kat is training for spring (@bgardnerfanclub) February 27, 2023

k3vin k., Monday, 27 February 2023 18:36 (one year ago) link

I read this today, absolutely incredible article, the bit where he’s saying a guy is a flat earther was the best

giant bat fucker (gyac), Monday, 27 February 2023 18:38 (one year ago) link

Also this is old but necessary to link

giant bat fucker (gyac), Monday, 27 February 2023 18:39 (one year ago) link

Votto/Greinke 2023

Its big ball chunky time (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Monday, 27 February 2023 21:00 (one year ago) link

this was really one of the best baseball articles i've read in some time. the flat earther section in full

Stephen Piscotty, outfielder: It was a longer at-bat. He didn’t say anything initially and then midway through the at-bat he just kind of looked at me and goes, “You went to Stanford, right? You’re an engineer?” I was like, “I mean, yeah, I’m surprised you would know that.” He was like, “OK, so if you’re an engineer, have you ever applied your engineering skills to hitting and how you think about it?” I was like, “Wow, that’s an interesting question.”

Votto (handwritten): I enjoy learning from my peers.

Votto: Yeah, I also asked him: “Why the hell do you think the earth is flat? You’re an engineer and you went to Stanford. How the hell can you think the earth is flat?”
(Editor’s note: Reached by text, a confused Piscotty wrote, “I am definitely not a flat earther.”
Votto: that’s what he tells you.)

avatár the way of watár (voodoo chili), Monday, 27 February 2023 21:09 (one year ago) link

loved this part too:

Votto: My routine every day is to compete, then go home, play chess and listen to old Norm Macdonald and old David Letterman, have a sleeve of saltines and then go to sleep. I’m dead-ass serious. That’s my life routine from basically spring training on.

avatár the way of watár (voodoo chili), Monday, 27 February 2023 21:10 (one year ago) link

damn he is me

k3vin k., Thursday, 2 March 2023 19:24 (one year ago) link

Joey Votto 👀

Any of the 64 teams in #MarchMadness need a point guard?

🎥 @Reds

— The Athletic MLB (@TheAthleticMLB) March 16, 2023

k3vin k., Thursday, 16 March 2023 17:45 (one year ago) link

better handles than kendrick perkins

four square ups... no punches thrown (Spottie), Thursday, 16 March 2023 18:11 (one year ago) link

three months pass...


— Jared Carrabis (@Jared_Carrabis) June 20, 2023

mookieproof, Tuesday, 20 June 2023 00:32 (nine months ago) link

one month passes...

.@JoeyVotto is a LEGEND 😂

Catch the full interview with the @Reds slugger on Thursday’s episode of #HighHeat with @MadDogUnleashed & @alannarizzo at 11am ET.

— MLB Network (@MLBNetwork) July 27, 2023

reggae mike love (polyphonic), Thursday, 27 July 2023 17:35 (eight months ago) link

one month passes...

happy 40th!

mookieproof, Sunday, 10 September 2023 20:06 (seven months ago) link

One day earlier this year, the Reds prospect Matt McLain stood in the clubhouse of the Class AAA Louisville Bats and began to bad mouth the game of chess. Behind him, undetected, was Votto, who was with the club on a rehab assignment. Votto might have objected and put the minor leaguer in his place, but instead he laughed and enlisted McLain in a gag.
He set up a secret camera to record a chess match between himself and infielder Alex McGarry. In the resulting video, the contest is in full swing when McLain walks by and defiantly slaps all the pieces onto the floor. McLain said McGarry was not in on the act and that his initial anger was real. But most people got the joke, which Votto ensured would be on himself.

Wonderful NYT piece about Votto today!

ydkb (gyac), Monday, 11 September 2023 23:08 (seven months ago) link


k3vin k., Monday, 11 September 2023 23:57 (seven months ago) link

two weeks pass...

The lack of hubbub going down the stretch kind of leans me to think the Reds and Joey might have already discussed him coming back for next year on his option season.

Reds got to pay him 7 million either way, so I don't think it is out of the possibility they might throw in few more bones for JV to play a final season.

At this point, I think Votto would be best used now as a spot starter and super 'Rusty Staub' style pinch hitter - especially that the Reds got two young big bats in Strand and Steer whose best position on the field is first base. Steer has some options to move around, but Strand is pretty much a 1b/DH.

I kinda think the options are good for mojo/clubhouse purposes as there is a really strong case for the Reds to move Jonathan India to get a starting pitcher. Same thing, there is so much talent to pay 2nd/SS for the Reds, India while the closest thing to a team captain they got and popular, is the one closest to free agency and a big raise.

earlnash, Saturday, 30 September 2023 11:19 (six months ago) link

Oh yeah, I found in my desk a Reds score card from Votto's rookie year, the game I saw where he hit 3 HRs against the Cubs. Pretty cool that I have hung on to this one.

I also saw Todd Frazier's infamous one armed home run against Jamie Moyer and Eric Davis' first catch of two in a weekend robbing Jack Clark of a home run in person. Those are pretty much the 3 big plays/games I saw in person.

earlnash, Saturday, 30 September 2023 11:25 (six months ago) link

one month passes...

I know how chimerical this sounds, but if I were the Jays, I'd absolutely take a chance and bring him in for one year. We've been talking a lot about intangibles, and god knows, he'd bring some the things this team is desperately in need of--most of all a presence that they just don't have (and that Semien gave them). They might even catch lighting in a bottle and get something resembling Pujols' final season. Probably not, but I think he'd be good for 10 HR, walks, and a .250/.350/.450 slash line if they rested him and picked their spots.

clemenza, Saturday, 4 November 2023 16:23 (five months ago) link


clemenza, Saturday, 4 November 2023 16:28 (five months ago) link

I can’t explain it - but he def feels like the type of hitter to kick it into a higher gear if he knows for sure the season is his last.

FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Sunday, 5 November 2023 04:57 (five months ago) link

The Jays are going to need a new DH. It could be a nice fit.

NoTimeBeforeTime, Sunday, 5 November 2023 10:20 (five months ago) link

— Joey Votto (@JoeyVotto) November 5, 2023

He’s also been posting pictures of favourite teammates and coaches on Instagram.

mojo dojo casas house (gyac), Sunday, 5 November 2023 15:15 (five months ago) link

three months pass...

What a fun mission. 😂

Joey Votto was on a scavenger hunt for mascots during #NHLAllStar.

— NHL (@NHL) February 3, 2024

Roman Anthony gets on his horse (gyac), Monday, 5 February 2024 12:05 (two months ago) link

one month passes...

Is this the end?

2 seasons below replacement off/def not helped by Mendoza line BA. Veteran presence not worth the team option apparently.

Feels bad man.

citation needed (Steve Shasta), Wednesday, 6 March 2024 17:12 (one month ago) link

I hate seeing his posts about this

Roman Anthony gets on his horse (gyac), Wednesday, 6 March 2024 17:16 (one month ago) link

Idk how it worked in the past but the roster spots are precious and he’s obviously well past the options stage of his career where you could stash him in triple A and at least play him there. Supposedly he’s had offers but who knows. I don’t think the Reds even did a farewell for him so it’s not like some Brandon Crawford thing where there was the last home series dedicated to him.

He clearly still wants to play. I don’t actually know anything about him off the field but I saw that he deleted all the photos off his Instagram except three from this year, which seems…bad.

It kind of feels that the Reds just cut him loose and that was it? Yeah it’s a hard sport but if he’s a Hall of Famer, he’s going in in a Reds cap - maybe they could have tried a little harder to offer a mentoring gig? But then again, assuming he still wants to play, that may have happened & he turned it down.

Feel like the Red Sox would have taken a flier on him if he was right handed - he still managed 14 home runs last season and he would be the perfect mentor for Casas. Blue Jays have Vladdy. I can’t think of any other teams besides those three that would make sense for him.

Roman Anthony gets on his horse (gyac), Wednesday, 6 March 2024 17:30 (one month ago) link

Jays are missing an opportunity, in my opinion. Even with Turner taking care of part of what they would have gotten from him--and I know roster spots are finite--I'd still like to have him.

clemenza, Wednesday, 6 March 2024 19:54 (one month ago) link

Whose roster spot does he take though? 13/26 are pitchers, 9 are starters, 4 are bench guys.

Roman Anthony gets on his horse (gyac), Wednesday, 6 March 2024 20:07 (one month ago) link

it is unfortunate but the only place that made sense was toronto, and as a team with playoff ambitions, they're much better off with turner (who apparently is a much-beloved veteran presence who helps younger players a great deal)

joey won't sell tickets anywhere else and he's not worth the roster spot anymore ;_;

mookieproof, Wednesday, 6 March 2024 21:04 (one month ago) link

I totally understand the rational, hard-headed argument against him, and I usually lean in that direction myself. This team is just so desparately in need of all that character stuff (and I think a starting pitcher, like Gausman, can only provide so much of that). Hopefully Turner covers enough of that.

clemenza, Wednesday, 6 March 2024 21:31 (one month ago) link

And the Jays do need a lhh

Roman Anthony gets on his horse (gyac), Wednesday, 6 March 2024 21:38 (one month ago) link

With 13-man pitching staffs, teams don't have room for veteran pinch-hitter/occasional DH's anymore. With four bench guys, there's almost no flexibility in roster construction -- you need a catcher, two infielders, and at least one outfielder. If he could reproduce Belt's slash stats from last year then it could still be worth it, but I don't think he's got it in him anymore.

NoTimeBeforeTime, Thursday, 7 March 2024 09:09 (one month ago) link

Belt should have a job, never mind Votto!

Roman Anthony gets on his horse (gyac), Thursday, 7 March 2024 13:20 (one month ago) link

Joey Votto has agreed to a non-roster invite with the Blue Jays. He is back.

— Buster Olney (@Buster_ESPN) March 8, 2024

Roman Anthony gets on his horse (gyac), Friday, 8 March 2024 18:22 (one month ago) link

Great! He either earns a spot or he doesn't--but at least they're giving it a shot.

clemenza, Friday, 8 March 2024 18:40 (one month ago) link

looks like it either him or Vogelbach. hopefully this doesn't block Spencer Horwitz, tho i think he'll have a good shot at LF.

FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Saturday, 9 March 2024 16:08 (one month ago) link

Reds got a jam of young guys that can play first or DH.

Votto might just join those guys who have that last hurrah on another team like say Billy Williams with the As or Ron Sanyo with the White Sox. Willie Mays going back to NY and Hank to Milwaukee a bit different.

The Artist formerly known as Earlnash, Sunday, 10 March 2024 02:03 (one month ago) link

Ron Sanyo and J.D. Marantz should have been teammates.

(I empathize--I've been bemoaning my own typos.)

clemenza, Sunday, 10 March 2024 02:15 (one month ago) link

Hell yeah

H.P, Monday, 18 March 2024 01:16 (four weeks ago) link

“I accidentally stepped on a bat in the dugout, rolled my ankle and it hurt like the dickens,”

Most blue jays thing ever

FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, 18 March 2024 01:18 (four weeks ago) link

As the only person he follows on twitter, I feel like he needs to see this.

— Devin Mesoraco (@DMesoraco) March 19, 2024

, Tuesday, 19 March 2024 14:06 (four weeks ago) link

I should in theory post this to the spring training content thread, but Joey Votto…

Spoilers for Love is Blind here

Roman Anthony gets on his horse (gyac), Friday, 22 March 2024 13:42 (three weeks ago) link

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