Joseph Daniel Votto

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a) we love him
b) any six-time winner of the Tip O'Neill Award deserves a thread
c) he rules

mookieproof, Friday, 15 September 2017 04:50 (one year ago) Permalink

Unadjusted, he's in line with Edgar Martinez:

Votto - .313/.428/.540
Edgar - .312/.418/.515

But Votto plays the field, has more power (5 more HR per season), walks even more (10 extra BB a year), and gets a large adjustment for era. His OPS+ is currently ahead of Mays, Aaron, DiMaggio, Wagner...

clemenza, Friday, 15 September 2017 11:45 (one year ago) Permalink

He's even underrated for most of the same reasons that Edgar was!

(OBP is generally an underrated stat, hasn't put up gaudy HR and RBI numbers every year, played for a lot of mediocre teams in a smaller market, etc.)

NoTimeBeforeTime, Friday, 15 September 2017 15:30 (one year ago) Permalink

i love him so

i pasted a fangraphs link yesterday showing that he was the 4th player since 1900 to have a season with a BB% of >18 and a K% of <12 (barry bonds did it 5x, brian giles once, todd helton once)

k3vin k., Friday, 15 September 2017 17:13 (one year ago) Permalink

I wish he played for a team that wasn't blacked out for me.

WilliamC, Friday, 15 September 2017 17:46 (one year ago) Permalink

(xpost) Not Ted Williams? Unless I'm misunderstanding, looks like he did it a bunch of times.

clemenza, Friday, 15 September 2017 18:08 (one year ago) Permalink

ok, i must have done the table wrong or something. i was surprised with that result too

k3vin k., Friday, 15 September 2017 18:12 (one year ago) Permalink

can someone play around with the fangraphs splits leaderboard? for some reason it's only giving me results back to 2000

k3vin k., Friday, 15 September 2017 18:59 (one year ago) Permalink

I swear there's a Joey Votto default setting: 1-3 with a walk. I'm tempted to go through his game logs for the past couple of years; it feels like every other game he's 1-3 with a walk, although I know that's not true. (He's one of 5-10 players I check daily.)

clemenza, Saturday, 16 September 2017 00:56 (one year ago) Permalink

one of the best hitters of this era, super underrated despite the mvp season

ciderpress, Saturday, 16 September 2017 01:35 (one year ago) Permalink

bbref probably better than fangraphs if you want to go back further than 15 yrs

ciderpress, Saturday, 16 September 2017 01:36 (one year ago) Permalink

Belated welcome to the >18/<12 club, Joey.

Andy K, Saturday, 16 September 2017 01:38 (one year ago) Permalink

one month passes...

He was on as an in-studio commentator here during the WS--as you'd expect, quite good.

Something I just noticed that surprised me. (I like to look at Votto's career box once a week...except for his injury-shortened 2014, a thing of beauty--and that was disastrous only by his own standards; merely mediocre for anyone else).

Jason Giambi (911.8)
Matt Holliday (899.8)
Hal Trosky (899.5)
Ted Kluszewski (898.3)
Magglio Ordonez (897.7)
Larry Walker (887.7)
Mo Vaughn (885.6)
Lance Berkman (880.0)
Tim Salmon (879.0)
Cecil Cooper (878.3)

His career comps through 33 include no HOF'ers (although I still think Walker will get there eventually). Comp lists for guys who are clearly headed to the HOF almost always include at least two or three other players who are already there--sometimes more. I would have thought Votto's would include people like Bagwell and Thome, maybe a couple of older names like Greenberg or Mize or somebody. Hack Wilson does turn up on the other comp list (Votto's stats vs. career stats of others). Maybe his walk rate is so high, that skews everything.

clemenza, Saturday, 4 November 2017 15:10 (one year ago) Permalink

"only" avg 20-25 HR/year @ 1B has something to do w it? which compounds the cartoonishly high walk thing?

YouTube_-_funy_cats.flv (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Saturday, 4 November 2017 15:56 (one year ago) Permalink

ooh i'd love some video of his commentary

k3vin k., Saturday, 4 November 2017 16:41 (one year ago) Permalink

I got a weird feeling Boston is going to make a push to trade for Votto in the off season.

WAR career total wise Votto is past all of those comparable players, it's just that most of the guys on that list tailed off hard at around age 33. It will be interesting to see how Joey Votto does between say 33-38, as that is going to be the difference in between the HOF and the hall of very good.

earlnash, Sunday, 5 November 2017 05:00 (one year ago) Permalink

could see him being bonds 35-40 w/o the power

YouTube_-_funy_cats.flv (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Sunday, 5 November 2017 05:27 (one year ago) Permalink

I've thought about it a bit and I might have said it on a different thread, but I think the player who's style I think was pretty similar to Joey Votto was Carl Yastrzemski. Yaz started out great at a much earlier age and missed less time to injury, so his career counting totals are past what Votto will do, but from what I can recall and looking at the numbers, both had a good eye hit for average, power and drew walks. I'd think Yaz's later career could be something we could see from Votto.

earlnash, Sunday, 5 November 2017 22:43 (one year ago) Permalink

OPS+ for some select players over their first 11 seasons:

161 - Bonds
159 - Mays
159 - McCovey
158 - DiMaggio
*158 - Votto*
157 - Manny
157 - Aaron
157 - Bagwell
154 - Miggy
154 - F. Robinson

— Andrew Simon (@AndrewSimonMLB) November 17, 2017

mookieproof, Friday, 17 November 2017 18:57 (one year ago) Permalink

three weeks pass...

Joey Votto has been awarded the 2017 Lou Marsh Trophy as Canada’s most outstanding athlete of the year.#reds

— Mark Sheldon (@m_sheldon) December 12, 2017

mookieproof, Tuesday, 12 December 2017 18:34 (one year ago) Permalink

three weeks pass...

Cumlative Frequency
Batted Balls by Spray Direction
Votto v MLB (LHH)
Including foul balls
-45 is pure pull, +45 is pure opposite#Statcast
Interesting note: this is a pure "shift"; no clumping of balls being pulled or hit the other way. Just everything shifted 6 degrees. pic.twitter.com/UjJ4N8Z3vC

— Tangotiger (@tangotiger) January 5, 2018

k3vin k., Friday, 5 January 2018 02:31 (eleven months ago) Permalink

two cumlatives, one tweet

Karl Malone, Friday, 5 January 2018 02:47 (eleven months ago) Permalink

i have to admit, i'm a little confused by the chart. shouldn't a cumlative percentage chart add up to 100%? maybe batted balls more than 45 degrees in either direction aren't counted?

Karl Malone, Friday, 5 January 2018 02:50 (eleven months ago) Permalink

three months pass...

make that seven

Congratulations to Joey Votto on winning his 7th James Tip O’Neill award as Canada’s best player. @Reds @baseballcanada pic.twitter.com/cY3K2tizlG

— CDN Baseball HOF (@CDNBaseballHOF) April 13, 2018

mookieproof, Friday, 13 April 2018 21:52 (eight months ago) Permalink

Votto's played nine full-time seasons, and they've all been good-to-(eight of them)-great. I'm surprised he didn't win all nine. They must have given one to Morneau, the other I don't know.

clemenza, Saturday, 14 April 2018 11:49 (eight months ago) Permalink

Ya. I’m trying to guess who else... Russ Martin maybe?

Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Saturday, 14 April 2018 11:54 (eight months ago) Permalink

List of winners:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tip_O%27Neill_Award

Morneau got it in 2008, Votto's first full year. They were pretty close, but Morneau was probably better.

Jason Bay got it in 2009--Votto was better

Votto split the award in 2011 with John Axford--Votto was better.

Morneau won again in 2014, when Votto missed half the season.

clemenza, Saturday, 14 April 2018 14:41 (eight months ago) Permalink

Wtf @ Axford?!

Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Saturday, 14 April 2018 14:55 (eight months ago) Permalink

Probably because of those amazing 46 saves he earned by throwing a few fastballs every couple days.

omar little, Saturday, 14 April 2018 15:31 (eight months ago) Permalink

votto loves his slow starts. was awful in spring training and has been sub-replacement so far this year

k3vin k., Sunday, 15 April 2018 04:44 (eight months ago) Permalink

wish i were a mod so i could ban you from this thread

mookieproof, Sunday, 15 April 2018 04:56 (eight months ago) Permalink

<3

mookieproof, Sunday, 15 April 2018 05:10 (eight months ago) Permalink

I gotta bad feeling if the Reds continue on their implosion path the club ownership might throw in the towel and trade Votto for as much as they can get.

To me, it seems a no brainer for a club with a situation like the Red Sox might try to deal to get Votto. He would be their ideal kind of hitter. Marketing wise, I think Votto in a big market (if he wanted to do it) could be huge especially with the hitting legacy in Boston.

Seems like the kinda deal the Blue Jays might also do.

I think it possible.

earlnash, Sunday, 15 April 2018 08:19 (eight months ago) Permalink

Would love to have him in Toronto, of course, but I doubt the timing's right. Smoak continues to play well on the cheap--and the guys in charge are cheap--and Donaldson's health issues relegate him to DH more and more. And, while Guerrero's untouchable, I wouldn't want the Reds to pry Bichette away in a deal.

clemenza, Sunday, 15 April 2018 12:15 (eight months ago) Permalink

I think his contract makes him really hard to move. I love Votto but no one is going to give up a Vlad or Bichette level talent to pay Joey that much money over his decline years.

Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Sunday, 15 April 2018 14:07 (eight months ago) Permalink

I wouldn’t even want to part with a Teoscar.

Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Sunday, 15 April 2018 14:21 (eight months ago) Permalink

i don't think you'd have to give up much in the way of prospects to get votto -- just a willingness to pay his enormous salary

mookieproof, Sunday, 15 April 2018 18:28 (eight months ago) Permalink

3-3 with a homer, a double, and 2 walks today. wRC+ back to 130 all of the sudden

k3vin k., Saturday, 28 April 2018 04:10 (seven months ago) Permalink

Another classic from Joey Votto. I’ll never understand how people don’t like this man.

“Shout out to Canada.” pic.twitter.com/TNQ2j4zv7L

— Aaron Woods (@AaronWoods1410) April 28, 2018

Andy K, Saturday, 28 April 2018 18:42 (seven months ago) Permalink

"Below zero Celsius shout out to Canada."

That's even better.

It is good to see how much confidence Votto has developed on TV over the years. I think he has a career in broadcasting if he wants it when done.

earlnash, Saturday, 28 April 2018 18:59 (seven months ago) Permalink

How many of the great hitters, Votto type players, ended up being good hitting coaches? Managers?

Van Horn Street, Saturday, 28 April 2018 23:32 (seven months ago) Permalink

Joe Torre was a pretty darn good hitter. Won an MVP and a batting title.

earlnash, Sunday, 29 April 2018 00:20 (seven months ago) Permalink

Yeah, lots...
Molitor, Mattingly, Baker, who is that guy who owns the Marlins again?

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Sunday, 29 April 2018 00:30 (seven months ago) Permalink

Votto type players

Not sure if any of those guys are Votto-type players, though--Mattingly in his prime would be the closest. Ted Williams and Frank Robinson weren't particularly successful as managers; Ruth waited around for a call that never came.

clemenza, Sunday, 29 April 2018 01:34 (seven months ago) Permalink

Yeah i'm thinking hitting first mad scientists (135 wrc+ career), Ted Williams and Frank Robinson fit that description. One that seems to have been rather successful is Reggie Jackson. Molitor isn't too far, that being said. Looking if they are able to share their insights in a structured way.

Van Horn Street, Sunday, 29 April 2018 01:44 (seven months ago) Permalink

For some reason I was under the impression Reggie Jackson had been a coach (bench or hitting) with the Yankees, but he was not.

Frank Howard did have a good coaching career.

Van Horn Street, Sunday, 29 April 2018 01:47 (seven months ago) Permalink

McGwire?

NoTimeBeforeTime, Sunday, 29 April 2018 03:43 (seven months ago) Permalink

i think votto would be a fantastic hitting coach. from the little i know of him, i’m not sure he has the personality one might look for in a modern manager

mookieproof, Sunday, 29 April 2018 05:45 (seven months ago) Permalink

JOEY VOTTO MAKES A POINT OF REMINDING ST. LOUIS UBER DRIVERS THAT HE BEAT ALBERT PUJOLS IN THE 2010 NL MVP RACEhttps://t.co/2ZYHBEeBIl pic.twitter.com/3GVcy7AcyF

— Vlad Needer Birenbaum (@birenball) May 3, 2018

mookieproof, Thursday, 3 May 2018 14:17 (seven months ago) Permalink

Lou Boudreau

timellison, Thursday, 3 May 2018 14:45 (seven months ago) Permalink

haha ok someone with an athletic account needs to post this interview plz

k3vin k., Thursday, 3 May 2018 16:19 (seven months ago) Permalink

A young Joey Votto got a close-up look at greatness early in his career, playing in the same division as Albert Pujols.

Votto's first two full seasons in the big leagues were 2008 and 2009, when Pujols won his second and third Most Valuable Player awards. In 2010, Pujols finished second -- to Votto.

With Pujols on the cusp of 3,000 hits, Votto talked to The Athletic about what Pujols meant to him, the game and even the city of St. Louis.

When you were a young player and you were in this division and you saw him a lot, what did you take from watching him as much as you got to see him in those days?

He was an intimidating figure in many different ways -- an older man, a bigger man, clearly when I entered into the league, he'd already established himself as one of the very best players, if not the best player in the game. He was very territorial. He wanted it to be known that he was the best player and the best at his position. He may not have ever said it, but he's a very competitive man. It was helpful for me because I really like to compete against the best. He was in our division. He was the toast of St. Louis, so that's about as good as it gets when St. Louis is playing well, when they have a marquee guy, obviously they were winning World Series, he's winning awards, so it was a lot of good things happening in that city and for him.

It was my first experience, he and that team, of what Major League Baseball at its finest looks like. It wasn't until he left and went to Anaheim that I think -- always when he was in a Cardinals uniform, I felt -- I don't want to use the word intimidated because it implies that I thought of myself as second, but I was just always aware of how special he was. He was a tremendous defensive player, I don't think he gets enough credit for that. Once he was more comfortable with me as a player and more familiar, he was generous with his knowledge.

I think when it's all said and done, he'll go down as an all-time great, an inner-circle guy, conversation for best at the position. Again, when I played against him, I got to see him in his prime and there are too many examples of games and moments where you just thought, 'Oh boy, this guy's on another level.' In every which way. It was a real treat.

The thing that fascinates me the most about him, that if you ask any player playing with him or against him that if he'd ever played with a player that is better than him, the answer would be, unequivocally, no. And now he's in Anaheim and playing with a player that almost without question is a better player than him. It has to take arguably the greatest player of all time to be better than him. I thought that was really interesting that if this all-time great player… it always fascinated me. I could not, if anyone had ever asked me, could you imagine Albert playing with a better player, I would have said, 'I don't know if that's possible.' That's how good he is.

Was there ever a point where he said something to let you know that he thought highly of you? Or that you were accepted?

No. I think with time, when we play against each other more infrequently, he's more happy to see me and handshakes and hugs and 'How you doing?' and 'Great to see you' and 'Keep playing well,' those sort of conversations. But while we were going head-to-head, he was never friendly like that -- ever, ever, ever. That was something I respected from him. I loved that in an athlete. I kind of get uncomfortable with a lot of buddy-buddyness on the field when you're competing and both want something. That was my perspective.

So back in those days, you're on first base and there's no chit-chat?

There would be times where we didn't speak for an entire series. I never took it personally. I never thought or felt terribly uncomfortable with it because -- again, I felt like he had his own thing going and I can relate to it now because there are times where I don't want to deal with certain stuff.

I was a younger player, I had two or three years in the league and he was at 10 already. He's got so much more time than I do in the game. Now the fruits of that time are showing up with all the hits and the home runs. It's amazing the career he's had.

I hope that with a little bit of distance… I'm speaking out of turn here, I hope that eventually it comes full circle and he gets to go back to St. Louis and embraced appropriately and he gets to be a part of that sort of family that they have. I know it was a very difficult "break up," but I think it's better for the game and, more importantly, better for St. Louis because of how important the Cardinals are to that city and how really, Albert's probably the best player -- him and Stan (Musial) are the best two players that ever played (there).

He won championships there. It's something that no matter how well I play here, I look at all the guys that come back, and the one thing they all have in common -- Barry Larkin, obviously the Big Red Machine -- they've won championships. Teams love the players associated with their very best moments and obviously, championships are marquee moments. The biggest moment in my life is the Toronto Blue Jays winning back-to-back World Series. It's probably the most joy I've ever felt. Albert, I hope, gets back to St. Louis and be embraced appropriately and be able to give back, also.

You beat him for the MVP in 2010…

I'm very aware of that. I've told many a St. Louis Uber driver that. They ask me who I am, they say, "You play baseball?"

I say, "Yes."

They say, "Wow, what team?"

I say, "Cincinnati."

They say, "Oh, where's that?"

I say, "Oh, it's in Ohio."

They'll say, "OK."

I say, "Do you know Albert Pujols?"

"Oh yes, of course."

I'll say, "Well, I beat him for the Most Valuable Player. He came in second to me."

He did come in second, that was a very proud moment and what's funny is he finished second and it may not have been in his seven or eight or nine best seasons. That's how good he was and how much of a monopoly he had on first base in the National League in terms of dominance. So I'm glad I snagged one.

mookieproof, Thursday, 3 May 2018 17:02 (seven months ago) Permalink

damn, joey votto gives a good interview. he says a lot of insightful things, but also things like "The biggest moment in my life is the Toronto Blue Jays winning back-to-back World Series." which is really interesting but also kind of sad! also, re:

[I hope that with a little bit of distance… I'm speaking out of turn here, I hope that eventually it comes full circle and he gets to go back to St. Louis and embraced appropriately and he gets to be a part of that sort of family that they have. I know it was a very difficult "break up," but I think it's better for the game and, more importantly, better for St. Louis because of how important the Cardinals are to that city and how really, Albert's probably the best player -- him and Stan (Musial) are the best two players that ever played (there).

please don't let this happen. or if it does, make it a july deadline trade and august retirement ceremony

Karl Malone, Thursday, 3 May 2018 18:24 (seven months ago) Permalink

I'd root for the Yankees to win the world series if he was in their lineup.

Van Horn Street, Thursday, 3 May 2018 18:35 (seven months ago) Permalink

let's not get crazy here

mookieproof, Thursday, 3 May 2018 18:38 (seven months ago) Permalink

We Canadian baseball fans have the heroes we get.

Van Horn Street, Thursday, 3 May 2018 18:39 (seven months ago) Permalink

one month passes...

With the 3-5 game last night against the Rockies, Mr. Vottomatic has now passed the .300 mark this season and is up to .306 for the first time. Votto seems to take about 5 weeks to get going the past few years.

Freeland pitched him well and Votto got one hit the opposite way right off his hands. JV was only 1-13 against Mike Dunn coming into the game and he hit another chip shot single the other way with Dunn busting him in on his hands. Tony Gwynn and Pete Rose would have been proud, both singles looked like something out of their book.

earlnash, Wednesday, 6 June 2018 09:44 (six months ago) Permalink

one month passes...

Today in Joey Votto being the best: A montage of Votto faking out Adam Duvall every time Votto scores and Duvall tries to high five him. (Documented by @EWPod listener Noah Stafford (@jondowd51.)https://t.co/HW5EE51Ip7

— Ben Lindbergh (@BenLindbergh) July 13, 2018

the ignatius rock of ignorance (Dr Morbius), Monday, 16 July 2018 14:16 (four months ago) Permalink

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DiVAkDqXkAUUCPH.jpg:small

mookieproof, Tuesday, 17 July 2018 18:47 (four months ago) Permalink

<3

k3vin k., Tuesday, 17 July 2018 20:09 (four months ago) Permalink

Votto kind of reminds me of Andrew WK.

timellison, Tuesday, 17 July 2018 21:41 (four months ago) Permalink

#Reds Joey Votto has 6,563 career plate appearances.

He has never popped out to the catcher, pitcher, or first basemen.

— Ryan M. Spaeder (@theaceofspaeder) July 20, 2018

mookieproof, Friday, 20 July 2018 17:39 (four months ago) Permalink

That’s just fucking weird

Karl Malone, Friday, 20 July 2018 18:13 (four months ago) Permalink

think i popped up to all three in my softball game last night.

InfoWarriors (Spottie), Friday, 20 July 2018 18:16 (four months ago) Permalink

that is wrong, joey votto. you can't do that.

Karl Malone, Friday, 20 July 2018 18:17 (four months ago) Permalink

wow that’s an absurd stat

k3vin k., Friday, 20 July 2018 21:25 (four months ago) Permalink

Feel like it's not that he doesn't pop-up to the infield moreso that he just doesn't hit pop-ups:

This could be my favorite stat, ever...
Joey Votto pop ups by year:
2010 - 0
2011 - 1
2012 - 1
2013 - 1
2014 - 1
2015 - 2
2016 - 0
2017 - 1
2018 - 0
Since 2010, Votto has popped it up 7 times. With the same amount of PA, the MLB average player would have popped it up 127 times.

— Jeremy Frank (@MLBRandomStats) July 20, 2018

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Friday, 20 July 2018 23:16 (four months ago) Permalink

that is insane

InfoWarriors (Spottie), Friday, 20 July 2018 23:17 (four months ago) Permalink

by definition, popups are infield popups, but yeah he's famous for avoiding them

k3vin k., Saturday, 21 July 2018 17:23 (four months ago) Permalink

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Di-3xvaXsAA0we7.jpg:small

mookieproof, Wednesday, 25 July 2018 21:53 (four months ago) Permalink

“Everybody on? Good, great, grand, wonderful. No yelling on the bus!” – Joey Votto pic.twitter.com/hEWRv1wB2P

— MLB (@MLB) July 25, 2018

na (NA), Thursday, 26 July 2018 00:57 (four months ago) Permalink

Jesus did that ever make me lol

Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 26 July 2018 13:42 (four months ago) Permalink

one month passes...

This is Kyle. Joey liked his "Votto for President" shirt so much that he brokered a trade.

Only one problem: Joey Votto can't run for president. So he signed it, "More like Prime Minister!"

Never, ever, ever change. pic.twitter.com/SQsvhVLjqz

— Cincinnati Reds (@Reds) September 3, 2018

this was in pittsburgh, fwiw

mookieproof, Monday, 3 September 2018 23:36 (three months ago) Permalink

two months pass...

The evolution of Joey Votto. #tbt pic.twitter.com/iU81PCv4gr

— Cincinnati Reds (@Reds) November 8, 2018

mookieproof, Thursday, 8 November 2018 19:42 (one month ago) Permalink


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