Joseph Daniel Votto

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a) we love him
b) any six-time winner of the Tip O'Neill Award deserves a thread
c) he rules

mookieproof, Friday, 15 September 2017 04:50 (three years ago) link

Unadjusted, he's in line with Edgar Martinez:

Votto - .313/.428/.540
Edgar - .312/.418/.515

But Votto plays the field, has more power (5 more HR per season), walks even more (10 extra BB a year), and gets a large adjustment for era. His OPS+ is currently ahead of Mays, Aaron, DiMaggio, Wagner...

clemenza, Friday, 15 September 2017 11:45 (three years ago) link

He's even underrated for most of the same reasons that Edgar was!

(OBP is generally an underrated stat, hasn't put up gaudy HR and RBI numbers every year, played for a lot of mediocre teams in a smaller market, etc.)

NoTimeBeforeTime, Friday, 15 September 2017 15:30 (three years ago) link

i love him so

i pasted a fangraphs link yesterday showing that he was the 4th player since 1900 to have a season with a BB% of >18 and a K% of <12 (barry bonds did it 5x, brian giles once, todd helton once)

k3vin k., Friday, 15 September 2017 17:13 (three years ago) link

I wish he played for a team that wasn't blacked out for me.

WilliamC, Friday, 15 September 2017 17:46 (three years ago) link

nomar, Friday, 15 September 2017 17:51 (three years ago) link

(xpost) Not Ted Williams? Unless I'm misunderstanding, looks like he did it a bunch of times.

clemenza, Friday, 15 September 2017 18:08 (three years ago) link

ok, i must have done the table wrong or something. i was surprised with that result too

k3vin k., Friday, 15 September 2017 18:12 (three years ago) link

can someone play around with the fangraphs splits leaderboard? for some reason it's only giving me results back to 2000

k3vin k., Friday, 15 September 2017 18:59 (three years ago) link

I swear there's a Joey Votto default setting: 1-3 with a walk. I'm tempted to go through his game logs for the past couple of years; it feels like every other game he's 1-3 with a walk, although I know that's not true. (He's one of 5-10 players I check daily.)

clemenza, Saturday, 16 September 2017 00:56 (three years ago) link

one of the best hitters of this era, super underrated despite the mvp season

ciderpress, Saturday, 16 September 2017 01:35 (three years ago) link

bbref probably better than fangraphs if you want to go back further than 15 yrs

ciderpress, Saturday, 16 September 2017 01:36 (three years ago) link

Belated welcome to the >18/<12 club, Joey.

Andy K, Saturday, 16 September 2017 01:38 (three years ago) link

one month passes...

He was on as an in-studio commentator here during the WS--as you'd expect, quite good.

Something I just noticed that surprised me. (I like to look at Votto's career box once a week...except for his injury-shortened 2014, a thing of beauty--and that was disastrous only by his own standards; merely mediocre for anyone else).

Jason Giambi (911.8)
Matt Holliday (899.8)
Hal Trosky (899.5)
Ted Kluszewski (898.3)
Magglio Ordonez (897.7)
Larry Walker (887.7)
Mo Vaughn (885.6)
Lance Berkman (880.0)
Tim Salmon (879.0)
Cecil Cooper (878.3)

His career comps through 33 include no HOF'ers (although I still think Walker will get there eventually). Comp lists for guys who are clearly headed to the HOF almost always include at least two or three other players who are already there--sometimes more. I would have thought Votto's would include people like Bagwell and Thome, maybe a couple of older names like Greenberg or Mize or somebody. Hack Wilson does turn up on the other comp list (Votto's stats vs. career stats of others). Maybe his walk rate is so high, that skews everything.

clemenza, Saturday, 4 November 2017 15:10 (three years ago) link

"only" avg 20-25 HR/year @ 1B has something to do w it? which compounds the cartoonishly high walk thing?

YouTube_-_funy_cats.flv (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Saturday, 4 November 2017 15:56 (three years ago) link

ooh i'd love some video of his commentary

k3vin k., Saturday, 4 November 2017 16:41 (three years ago) link

I got a weird feeling Boston is going to make a push to trade for Votto in the off season.

WAR career total wise Votto is past all of those comparable players, it's just that most of the guys on that list tailed off hard at around age 33. It will be interesting to see how Joey Votto does between say 33-38, as that is going to be the difference in between the HOF and the hall of very good.

earlnash, Sunday, 5 November 2017 05:00 (three years ago) link

could see him being bonds 35-40 w/o the power

YouTube_-_funy_cats.flv (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Sunday, 5 November 2017 05:27 (three years ago) link

I've thought about it a bit and I might have said it on a different thread, but I think the player who's style I think was pretty similar to Joey Votto was Carl Yastrzemski. Yaz started out great at a much earlier age and missed less time to injury, so his career counting totals are past what Votto will do, but from what I can recall and looking at the numbers, both had a good eye hit for average, power and drew walks. I'd think Yaz's later career could be something we could see from Votto.

earlnash, Sunday, 5 November 2017 22:43 (three years ago) link

OPS+ for some select players over their first 11 seasons:

161 - Bonds
159 - Mays
159 - McCovey
158 - DiMaggio
*158 - Votto*
157 - Manny
157 - Aaron
157 - Bagwell
154 - Miggy
154 - F. Robinson

— Andrew Simon (@AndrewSimonMLB) November 17, 2017

mookieproof, Friday, 17 November 2017 18:57 (three years ago) link

three weeks pass...

Joey Votto has been awarded the 2017 Lou Marsh Trophy as Canada’s most outstanding athlete of the year.#reds

— Mark Sheldon (@m_sheldon) December 12, 2017

mookieproof, Tuesday, 12 December 2017 18:34 (three years ago) link

three weeks pass...

Cumlative Frequency
Batted Balls by Spray Direction
Votto v MLB (LHH)
Including foul balls
-45 is pure pull, +45 is pure opposite#Statcast
Interesting note: this is a pure "shift"; no clumping of balls being pulled or hit the other way. Just everything shifted 6 degrees.

— Tangotiger (@tangotiger) January 5, 2018

k3vin k., Friday, 5 January 2018 02:31 (three years ago) link

two cumlatives, one tweet

Karl Malone, Friday, 5 January 2018 02:47 (three years ago) link

i have to admit, i'm a little confused by the chart. shouldn't a cumlative percentage chart add up to 100%? maybe batted balls more than 45 degrees in either direction aren't counted?

Karl Malone, Friday, 5 January 2018 02:50 (three years ago) link

three months pass...

make that seven

Congratulations to Joey Votto on winning his 7th James Tip O’Neill award as Canada’s best player. @Reds @baseballcanada

— CDN Baseball HOF (@CDNBaseballHOF) April 13, 2018

mookieproof, Friday, 13 April 2018 21:52 (three years ago) link

Votto's played nine full-time seasons, and they've all been good-to-(eight of them)-great. I'm surprised he didn't win all nine. They must have given one to Morneau, the other I don't know.

clemenza, Saturday, 14 April 2018 11:49 (three years ago) link

Ya. I’m trying to guess who else... Russ Martin maybe?

Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Saturday, 14 April 2018 11:54 (three years ago) link

List of winners:

Morneau got it in 2008, Votto's first full year. They were pretty close, but Morneau was probably better.

Jason Bay got it in 2009--Votto was better

Votto split the award in 2011 with John Axford--Votto was better.

Morneau won again in 2014, when Votto missed half the season.

clemenza, Saturday, 14 April 2018 14:41 (three years ago) link

Wtf @ Axford?!

Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Saturday, 14 April 2018 14:55 (three years ago) link

Probably because of those amazing 46 saves he earned by throwing a few fastballs every couple days.

omar little, Saturday, 14 April 2018 15:31 (three years ago) link

votto loves his slow starts. was awful in spring training and has been sub-replacement so far this year

k3vin k., Sunday, 15 April 2018 04:44 (three years ago) link

wish i were a mod so i could ban you from this thread

mookieproof, Sunday, 15 April 2018 04:56 (three years ago) link


mookieproof, Sunday, 15 April 2018 05:10 (three years ago) link

I gotta bad feeling if the Reds continue on their implosion path the club ownership might throw in the towel and trade Votto for as much as they can get.

To me, it seems a no brainer for a club with a situation like the Red Sox might try to deal to get Votto. He would be their ideal kind of hitter. Marketing wise, I think Votto in a big market (if he wanted to do it) could be huge especially with the hitting legacy in Boston.

Seems like the kinda deal the Blue Jays might also do.

I think it possible.

earlnash, Sunday, 15 April 2018 08:19 (three years ago) link

Would love to have him in Toronto, of course, but I doubt the timing's right. Smoak continues to play well on the cheap--and the guys in charge are cheap--and Donaldson's health issues relegate him to DH more and more. And, while Guerrero's untouchable, I wouldn't want the Reds to pry Bichette away in a deal.

clemenza, Sunday, 15 April 2018 12:15 (three years ago) link

I think his contract makes him really hard to move. I love Votto but no one is going to give up a Vlad or Bichette level talent to pay Joey that much money over his decline years.

Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Sunday, 15 April 2018 14:07 (three years ago) link

I wouldn’t even want to part with a Teoscar.

Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Sunday, 15 April 2018 14:21 (three years ago) link

i don't think you'd have to give up much in the way of prospects to get votto -- just a willingness to pay his enormous salary

mookieproof, Sunday, 15 April 2018 18:28 (three years ago) link

3-3 with a homer, a double, and 2 walks today. wRC+ back to 130 all of the sudden

k3vin k., Saturday, 28 April 2018 04:10 (two years ago) link

Another classic from Joey Votto. I’ll never understand how people don’t like this man.

“Shout out to Canada.”

— Aaron Woods (@AaronWoods1410) April 28, 2018

Andy K, Saturday, 28 April 2018 18:42 (two years ago) link

"Below zero Celsius shout out to Canada."

That's even better.

It is good to see how much confidence Votto has developed on TV over the years. I think he has a career in broadcasting if he wants it when done.

earlnash, Saturday, 28 April 2018 18:59 (two years ago) link

How many of the great hitters, Votto type players, ended up being good hitting coaches? Managers?

Van Horn Street, Saturday, 28 April 2018 23:32 (two years ago) link

Joe Torre was a pretty darn good hitter. Won an MVP and a batting title.

earlnash, Sunday, 29 April 2018 00:20 (two years ago) link

Yeah, lots...
Molitor, Mattingly, Baker, who is that guy who owns the Marlins again?

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Sunday, 29 April 2018 00:30 (two years ago) link

Votto type players

Not sure if any of those guys are Votto-type players, though--Mattingly in his prime would be the closest. Ted Williams and Frank Robinson weren't particularly successful as managers; Ruth waited around for a call that never came.

clemenza, Sunday, 29 April 2018 01:34 (two years ago) link

Yeah i'm thinking hitting first mad scientists (135 wrc+ career), Ted Williams and Frank Robinson fit that description. One that seems to have been rather successful is Reggie Jackson. Molitor isn't too far, that being said. Looking if they are able to share their insights in a structured way.

Van Horn Street, Sunday, 29 April 2018 01:44 (two years ago) link

For some reason I was under the impression Reggie Jackson had been a coach (bench or hitting) with the Yankees, but he was not.

Frank Howard did have a good coaching career.

Van Horn Street, Sunday, 29 April 2018 01:47 (two years ago) link


NoTimeBeforeTime, Sunday, 29 April 2018 03:43 (two years ago) link

that is insane

InfoWarriors (Spottie), Friday, 20 July 2018 23:17 (two years ago) link

by definition, popups are infield popups, but yeah he's famous for avoiding them

k3vin k., Saturday, 21 July 2018 17:23 (two years ago) link

mookieproof, Wednesday, 25 July 2018 21:53 (two years ago) link

“Everybody on? Good, great, grand, wonderful. No yelling on the bus!” – Joey Votto

— MLB (@MLB) July 25, 2018

na (NA), Thursday, 26 July 2018 00:57 (two years ago) link

Jesus did that ever make me lol

Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 26 July 2018 13:42 (two years ago) link

one month passes...

This is Kyle. Joey liked his "Votto for President" shirt so much that he brokered a trade.

Only one problem: Joey Votto can't run for president. So he signed it, "More like Prime Minister!"

Never, ever, ever change.

— Cincinnati Reds (@Reds) September 3, 2018

this was in pittsburgh, fwiw

mookieproof, Monday, 3 September 2018 23:36 (two years ago) link

two months pass...

The evolution of Joey Votto. #tbt

— Cincinnati Reds (@Reds) November 8, 2018

mookieproof, Thursday, 8 November 2018 19:42 (two years ago) link

three months pass...

just watched the 2009 star trek for the first time and i was all like joey votto is a romulan?

mookieproof, Monday, 25 February 2019 01:26 (two years ago) link


k3vin k., Monday, 25 February 2019 01:57 (two years ago) link

Toying with an insect much like he does with pitchers.

Van Horn Street, Monday, 25 February 2019 01:58 (two years ago) link

two weeks pass...

Quote of the day

“It's a great example. The other reason I didn't want to make a big deal out of it is because he does it all the time. That's who he is. I don't need to bring a lot of attention to it, but it is worth complimenting because that's just nice. There's only a few people who can set that strong of an example when everyone's going to be watching. He took advantage of it.” – Bell on Joey Votto sprinting to second base on a pop-up, which dropped on an error, during a “B” game Thursday.

Votto was probably sprinting as he was pi$$ed that he popped up to an infielder.

earlnash, Sunday, 17 March 2019 07:19 (two years ago) link

this shirt

we don't deserve Joey Votto

— Sr VP of Trivia (@RedsGM) March 27, 2019

frogbs, Thursday, 28 March 2019 03:33 (two years ago) link


na (NA), Thursday, 28 March 2019 14:11 (two years ago) link

Nice guy, Joey Votto.

— Cincinnati Reds (@Reds) April 10, 2019

na (NA), Wednesday, 10 April 2019 01:38 (two years ago) link


k3vin k., Wednesday, 10 April 2019 01:44 (two years ago) link

Joey Votto popped up to the first baseman today for the first time in his Major League career.

— David Adler (@_dadler) April 17, 2019

mookieproof, Wednesday, 17 April 2019 21:37 (two years ago) link

yeesh, twice now this year including spring training

k3vin k., Wednesday, 17 April 2019 21:50 (two years ago) link

that is crazy

d'ILM for Murder (Hadrian VIII), Thursday, 18 April 2019 03:24 (two years ago) link

one month passes...

first he hits an infield pop-up, then he slashes .208/.323/.340 through 186 PAs

wtf is up with joey votto

these are not all of the possible side effects (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 21 May 2019 01:21 (one year ago) link

If you believe the deep dive line, Votto's hitting the ball hard as heck right at people with swinging and missing a bit more.

Votto's kinda sucked for April and May for most of the last 2-3 years, albeit he was starting to pull out by now.

Cross fingers...

earlnash, Tuesday, 21 May 2019 01:28 (one year ago) link

i'm sorry but we mustn't use 'slashes' in such a fashion. 'hits' or 'bats' will do

i feel certain joey votto would agree with this, my crusade

mookieproof, Tuesday, 21 May 2019 01:45 (one year ago) link

I will try not to...but I can’t make promises. In the heat of the moment, it could happen again

these are not all of the possible side effects (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 21 May 2019 01:58 (one year ago) link

the strikeouts are really what’s worrying me. maybe he’s taking a different approach, and like earl says he always starts slow. so I’m hoping this isn’t just a big fall-off

k3vin k., Tuesday, 21 May 2019 20:35 (one year ago) link

four weeks pass...

Votto, though, is a known talker, and here’s how widely the conversations can vary: Dixon says he heard a story from a friend on the Pirates. Before a series with the Reds, the Pirates lineup got together and came up with a list of topics. Each player had to think of something “totally random,” and if they reached first base, it was their job to bring up the topic with Votto. Stuff that could range from comedy, to space travel, to politics, whatever. Then Pirates players would come back to the dugout and report what they learned.

“They would get some interesting answers from him,” Dixon said.

mookieproof, Thursday, 20 June 2019 16:21 (one year ago) link

one month passes...


t-shirt prophetic

mookieproof, Saturday, 20 July 2019 00:53 (one year ago) link

he’s just bad now and it’s sad

k3vin k., Tuesday, 23 July 2019 18:08 (one year ago) link

i know it's a "counting stat" but he has 26(!) RBI in 92(!!) games

omar little, Tuesday, 23 July 2019 22:12 (one year ago) link

He'll find a way.

Van Horn Street, Tuesday, 23 July 2019 23:18 (one year ago) link

Joey Votto has switched his at-bat song from Miley Cyrus' "Party in the USA" to Carly Rae Jepsen's "Call Me Maybe."

mookieproof, Tuesday, 30 July 2019 21:09 (one year ago) link

three weeks pass...

He's come back a bit--enough that his line this year won't be quite the eyesore of two months ago (he's about even with his injury-shortened 2014)--with another month to keep climbing. (Or to slip back into eyesore territory.)

clemenza, Saturday, 24 August 2019 17:47 (one year ago) link

four months pass...

mookieproof, Wednesday, 15 January 2020 21:01 (one year ago) link

A link to the whole piece:

I've got an Athletic subscription as part of Posnanski's need one, I think.

clemenza, Wednesday, 15 January 2020 21:52 (one year ago) link

god I love him

k3vin k., Thursday, 16 January 2020 01:38 (one year ago) link

one month passes...

The level of concern is not universal among players. Reds first baseman Joey Votto pronounced himself indifferent to any looming changes.

“I don’t care,” Votto said. “I just want the games to be faster. Most restaurants close around 9 p.m. or 10 p.m. It’s hard to get a reservation and make it if you’re playing a three-and-a-half-hour game.”

Asked if cutting down on in-game video might aid that endeavor, Votto shrugged.

“Oh, I have no idea. I guess you didn’t ask about that. You were asking about a policy change. And the only thing I care about is that the games start getting faster. Do anything they want. I don’t care. They can make it a seven-inning game.”

mookieproof, Thursday, 5 March 2020 22:54 (one year ago) link

I asked Joey Votto about clubhouse access in general -- not in this specific case -- but whether he would welcome this ban on a permanent basis. This is his answer:

— C. トレント・ローズクランズ (@ctrent) March 10, 2020

Andy K, Tuesday, 10 March 2020 18:37 (one year ago) link

two months pass...

hell yeah

Yanni Xenakis (Hadrian VIII), Sunday, 7 June 2020 23:49 (ten months ago) link

good for him, and that was well written and composed on his part.

Karl Malone, Monday, 8 June 2020 04:42 (ten months ago) link

four weeks pass...

That's our first baseman. #BlackLivesMatter

— Cincinnati Reds (@Reds) July 7, 2020

na (NA), Tuesday, 7 July 2020 20:22 (nine months ago) link


Andy K, Wednesday, 8 July 2020 00:29 (nine months ago) link

two months pass...

37 today. and it shows : /

mookieproof, Thursday, 10 September 2020 19:09 (seven months ago) link

Is think he’s finally cooked

k3vin k., Friday, 11 September 2020 14:06 (seven months ago) link

dragons live forever

but not so slugging first basemen

brooklyn suicide cult (Dr Morbius), Friday, 11 September 2020 14:28 (seven months ago) link

It is kind of crazy that clubs did not shift more except in extreme cases in the old days. Votto is one of those guys that I think clubs just always planting a guy straight up the middle has taken away a ton of his hits. He used to get a ton of singles doing that and now they are just ground outs.

earlnash, Friday, 11 September 2020 22:25 (seven months ago) link

Is think he’s finally cooked

― k3vin k., Friday, September 11, 2020 7:06 AM (three days ago)

cooking with GAS you mean...

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 15 September 2020 00:39 (seven months ago) link

he can't play the pirates every day

mookieproof, Tuesday, 15 September 2020 00:57 (seven months ago) link

five months pass...

Joey Votto has tested positive for COVID-19. He allowed the team to release the diagnosis through official channels

— C. Trent Rosecrans (@ctrent) March 10, 2021

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, 11 March 2021 06:25 (one month ago) link

Virus doesn't stand a chance.

Van Horn Street, Friday, 12 March 2021 00:41 (one month ago) link

Exactly. He's been waiting patiently, letting one variant after another go by until he got just the one he wanted.

clemenza, Friday, 12 March 2021 01:53 (one month ago) link

two weeks pass...

Happy Joey Votto Activation Day.

Andy K, Thursday, 1 April 2021 15:41 (two weeks ago) link

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