Joseph Daniel Votto

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a) we love him
b) any six-time winner of the Tip O'Neill Award deserves a thread
c) he rules

mookieproof, Friday, 15 September 2017 04:50 (five years ago) link

Unadjusted, he's in line with Edgar Martinez:

Votto - .313/.428/.540
Edgar - .312/.418/.515

But Votto plays the field, has more power (5 more HR per season), walks even more (10 extra BB a year), and gets a large adjustment for era. His OPS+ is currently ahead of Mays, Aaron, DiMaggio, Wagner...

clemenza, Friday, 15 September 2017 11:45 (five years ago) link

He's even underrated for most of the same reasons that Edgar was!

(OBP is generally an underrated stat, hasn't put up gaudy HR and RBI numbers every year, played for a lot of mediocre teams in a smaller market, etc.)

NoTimeBeforeTime, Friday, 15 September 2017 15:30 (five years ago) link

i love him so

i pasted a fangraphs link yesterday showing that he was the 4th player since 1900 to have a season with a BB% of >18 and a K% of <12 (barry bonds did it 5x, brian giles once, todd helton once)

k3vin k., Friday, 15 September 2017 17:13 (five years ago) link

I wish he played for a team that wasn't blacked out for me.

WilliamC, Friday, 15 September 2017 17:46 (five years ago) link

nomar, Friday, 15 September 2017 17:51 (five years ago) link

(xpost) Not Ted Williams? Unless I'm misunderstanding, looks like he did it a bunch of times.

clemenza, Friday, 15 September 2017 18:08 (five years ago) link

ok, i must have done the table wrong or something. i was surprised with that result too

k3vin k., Friday, 15 September 2017 18:12 (five years ago) link

can someone play around with the fangraphs splits leaderboard? for some reason it's only giving me results back to 2000

k3vin k., Friday, 15 September 2017 18:59 (five years ago) link

I swear there's a Joey Votto default setting: 1-3 with a walk. I'm tempted to go through his game logs for the past couple of years; it feels like every other game he's 1-3 with a walk, although I know that's not true. (He's one of 5-10 players I check daily.)

clemenza, Saturday, 16 September 2017 00:56 (five years ago) link

one of the best hitters of this era, super underrated despite the mvp season

ciderpress, Saturday, 16 September 2017 01:35 (five years ago) link

bbref probably better than fangraphs if you want to go back further than 15 yrs

ciderpress, Saturday, 16 September 2017 01:36 (five years ago) link

Belated welcome to the >18/<12 club, Joey.

Andy K, Saturday, 16 September 2017 01:38 (five years ago) link

one month passes...

He was on as an in-studio commentator here during the WS--as you'd expect, quite good.

Something I just noticed that surprised me. (I like to look at Votto's career box once a week...except for his injury-shortened 2014, a thing of beauty--and that was disastrous only by his own standards; merely mediocre for anyone else).

Jason Giambi (911.8)
Matt Holliday (899.8)
Hal Trosky (899.5)
Ted Kluszewski (898.3)
Magglio Ordonez (897.7)
Larry Walker (887.7)
Mo Vaughn (885.6)
Lance Berkman (880.0)
Tim Salmon (879.0)
Cecil Cooper (878.3)

His career comps through 33 include no HOF'ers (although I still think Walker will get there eventually). Comp lists for guys who are clearly headed to the HOF almost always include at least two or three other players who are already there--sometimes more. I would have thought Votto's would include people like Bagwell and Thome, maybe a couple of older names like Greenberg or Mize or somebody. Hack Wilson does turn up on the other comp list (Votto's stats vs. career stats of others). Maybe his walk rate is so high, that skews everything.

clemenza, Saturday, 4 November 2017 15:10 (five years ago) link

"only" avg 20-25 HR/year @ 1B has something to do w it? which compounds the cartoonishly high walk thing?

YouTube_-_funy_cats.flv (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Saturday, 4 November 2017 15:56 (five years ago) link

ooh i'd love some video of his commentary

k3vin k., Saturday, 4 November 2017 16:41 (five years ago) link

I got a weird feeling Boston is going to make a push to trade for Votto in the off season.

WAR career total wise Votto is past all of those comparable players, it's just that most of the guys on that list tailed off hard at around age 33. It will be interesting to see how Joey Votto does between say 33-38, as that is going to be the difference in between the HOF and the hall of very good.

earlnash, Sunday, 5 November 2017 05:00 (five years ago) link

could see him being bonds 35-40 w/o the power

YouTube_-_funy_cats.flv (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Sunday, 5 November 2017 05:27 (five years ago) link

I've thought about it a bit and I might have said it on a different thread, but I think the player who's style I think was pretty similar to Joey Votto was Carl Yastrzemski. Yaz started out great at a much earlier age and missed less time to injury, so his career counting totals are past what Votto will do, but from what I can recall and looking at the numbers, both had a good eye hit for average, power and drew walks. I'd think Yaz's later career could be something we could see from Votto.

earlnash, Sunday, 5 November 2017 22:43 (five years ago) link

OPS+ for some select players over their first 11 seasons:

161 - Bonds
159 - Mays
159 - McCovey
158 - DiMaggio
*158 - Votto*
157 - Manny
157 - Aaron
157 - Bagwell
154 - Miggy
154 - F. Robinson

— Andrew Simon (@AndrewSimonMLB) November 17, 2017

mookieproof, Friday, 17 November 2017 18:57 (five years ago) link

three weeks pass...

Joey Votto has been awarded the 2017 Lou Marsh Trophy as Canada’s most outstanding athlete of the year.#reds

— Mark Sheldon (@m_sheldon) December 12, 2017

mookieproof, Tuesday, 12 December 2017 18:34 (five years ago) link

three weeks pass...

Cumlative Frequency
Batted Balls by Spray Direction
Votto v MLB (LHH)
Including foul balls
-45 is pure pull, +45 is pure opposite#Statcast
Interesting note: this is a pure "shift"; no clumping of balls being pulled or hit the other way. Just everything shifted 6 degrees.

— Tangotiger (@tangotiger) January 5, 2018

k3vin k., Friday, 5 January 2018 02:31 (five years ago) link

two cumlatives, one tweet

Karl Malone, Friday, 5 January 2018 02:47 (five years ago) link

i have to admit, i'm a little confused by the chart. shouldn't a cumlative percentage chart add up to 100%? maybe batted balls more than 45 degrees in either direction aren't counted?

Karl Malone, Friday, 5 January 2018 02:50 (five years ago) link

three months pass...

make that seven

Congratulations to Joey Votto on winning his 7th James Tip O’Neill award as Canada’s best player. @Reds @baseballcanada

— CDN Baseball HOF (@CDNBaseballHOF) April 13, 2018

mookieproof, Friday, 13 April 2018 21:52 (four years ago) link

Votto's played nine full-time seasons, and they've all been good-to-(eight of them)-great. I'm surprised he didn't win all nine. They must have given one to Morneau, the other I don't know.

clemenza, Saturday, 14 April 2018 11:49 (four years ago) link

Ya. I’m trying to guess who else... Russ Martin maybe?

Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Saturday, 14 April 2018 11:54 (four years ago) link

List of winners:

Morneau got it in 2008, Votto's first full year. They were pretty close, but Morneau was probably better.

Jason Bay got it in 2009--Votto was better

Votto split the award in 2011 with John Axford--Votto was better.

Morneau won again in 2014, when Votto missed half the season.

clemenza, Saturday, 14 April 2018 14:41 (four years ago) link

Wtf @ Axford?!

Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Saturday, 14 April 2018 14:55 (four years ago) link

Probably because of those amazing 46 saves he earned by throwing a few fastballs every couple days.

omar little, Saturday, 14 April 2018 15:31 (four years ago) link

votto loves his slow starts. was awful in spring training and has been sub-replacement so far this year

k3vin k., Sunday, 15 April 2018 04:44 (four years ago) link

wish i were a mod so i could ban you from this thread

mookieproof, Sunday, 15 April 2018 04:56 (four years ago) link


mookieproof, Sunday, 15 April 2018 05:10 (four years ago) link

I gotta bad feeling if the Reds continue on their implosion path the club ownership might throw in the towel and trade Votto for as much as they can get.

To me, it seems a no brainer for a club with a situation like the Red Sox might try to deal to get Votto. He would be their ideal kind of hitter. Marketing wise, I think Votto in a big market (if he wanted to do it) could be huge especially with the hitting legacy in Boston.

Seems like the kinda deal the Blue Jays might also do.

I think it possible.

earlnash, Sunday, 15 April 2018 08:19 (four years ago) link

Would love to have him in Toronto, of course, but I doubt the timing's right. Smoak continues to play well on the cheap--and the guys in charge are cheap--and Donaldson's health issues relegate him to DH more and more. And, while Guerrero's untouchable, I wouldn't want the Reds to pry Bichette away in a deal.

clemenza, Sunday, 15 April 2018 12:15 (four years ago) link

I think his contract makes him really hard to move. I love Votto but no one is going to give up a Vlad or Bichette level talent to pay Joey that much money over his decline years.

Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Sunday, 15 April 2018 14:07 (four years ago) link

I wouldn’t even want to part with a Teoscar.

Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Sunday, 15 April 2018 14:21 (four years ago) link

i don't think you'd have to give up much in the way of prospects to get votto -- just a willingness to pay his enormous salary

mookieproof, Sunday, 15 April 2018 18:28 (four years ago) link

3-3 with a homer, a double, and 2 walks today. wRC+ back to 130 all of the sudden

k3vin k., Saturday, 28 April 2018 04:10 (four years ago) link

Another classic from Joey Votto. I’ll never understand how people don’t like this man.

“Shout out to Canada.”

— Aaron Woods (@AaronWoods1410) April 28, 2018

Andy K, Saturday, 28 April 2018 18:42 (four years ago) link

"Below zero Celsius shout out to Canada."

That's even better.

It is good to see how much confidence Votto has developed on TV over the years. I think he has a career in broadcasting if he wants it when done.

earlnash, Saturday, 28 April 2018 18:59 (four years ago) link

How many of the great hitters, Votto type players, ended up being good hitting coaches? Managers?

Van Horn Street, Saturday, 28 April 2018 23:32 (four years ago) link

Joe Torre was a pretty darn good hitter. Won an MVP and a batting title.

earlnash, Sunday, 29 April 2018 00:20 (four years ago) link

Yeah, lots...
Molitor, Mattingly, Baker, who is that guy who owns the Marlins again?

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Sunday, 29 April 2018 00:30 (four years ago) link

Votto type players

Not sure if any of those guys are Votto-type players, though--Mattingly in his prime would be the closest. Ted Williams and Frank Robinson weren't particularly successful as managers; Ruth waited around for a call that never came.

clemenza, Sunday, 29 April 2018 01:34 (four years ago) link

Yeah i'm thinking hitting first mad scientists (135 wrc+ career), Ted Williams and Frank Robinson fit that description. One that seems to have been rather successful is Reggie Jackson. Molitor isn't too far, that being said. Looking if they are able to share their insights in a structured way.

Van Horn Street, Sunday, 29 April 2018 01:44 (four years ago) link

For some reason I was under the impression Reggie Jackson had been a coach (bench or hitting) with the Yankees, but he was not.

Frank Howard did have a good coaching career.

Van Horn Street, Sunday, 29 April 2018 01:47 (four years ago) link


NoTimeBeforeTime, Sunday, 29 April 2018 03:43 (four years ago) link

hell yeah

Yanni Xenakis (Hadrian VIII), Sunday, 7 June 2020 23:49 (two years ago) link

good for him, and that was well written and composed on his part.

Karl Malone, Monday, 8 June 2020 04:42 (two years ago) link

four weeks pass...

That's our first baseman. #BlackLivesMatter

— Cincinnati Reds (@Reds) July 7, 2020

na (NA), Tuesday, 7 July 2020 20:22 (two years ago) link


Andy K, Wednesday, 8 July 2020 00:29 (two years ago) link

two months pass...

37 today. and it shows : /

mookieproof, Thursday, 10 September 2020 19:09 (two years ago) link

Is think he’s finally cooked

k3vin k., Friday, 11 September 2020 14:06 (two years ago) link

dragons live forever

but not so slugging first basemen

brooklyn suicide cult (Dr Morbius), Friday, 11 September 2020 14:28 (two years ago) link

It is kind of crazy that clubs did not shift more except in extreme cases in the old days. Votto is one of those guys that I think clubs just always planting a guy straight up the middle has taken away a ton of his hits. He used to get a ton of singles doing that and now they are just ground outs.

earlnash, Friday, 11 September 2020 22:25 (two years ago) link

Is think he’s finally cooked

― k3vin k., Friday, September 11, 2020 7:06 AM (three days ago)

cooking with GAS you mean...

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 15 September 2020 00:39 (two years ago) link

he can't play the pirates every day

mookieproof, Tuesday, 15 September 2020 00:57 (two years ago) link

five months pass...

Joey Votto has tested positive for COVID-19. He allowed the team to release the diagnosis through official channels

— C. Trent Rosecrans (@ctrent) March 10, 2021

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, 11 March 2021 06:25 (one year ago) link

Virus doesn't stand a chance.

Van Horn Street, Friday, 12 March 2021 00:41 (one year ago) link

Exactly. He's been waiting patiently, letting one variant after another go by until he got just the one he wanted.

clemenza, Friday, 12 March 2021 01:53 (one year ago) link

two weeks pass...

Happy Joey Votto Activation Day.

Andy K, Thursday, 1 April 2021 15:41 (one year ago) link

one month passes...

steve reich ft. joey votto

Dare ya to say 'bang' 300 times fast.

— Cincinnati Reds (@Reds) May 1, 2021

mookieproof, Saturday, 1 May 2021 17:47 (one year ago) link

That was weirdly hypnotic.

one month passes...

A friend of mine posted on FB this morning about the 20th anniversary of taking his team--Michael Power, a Toronto high school--to the provincials at the Skydome and almost winning. The photos he posted are focused on his team, of course, but this one was great for the supporting cast.

clemenza, Wednesday, 16 June 2021 15:19 (one year ago) link

Scored the game winning run today.

earlnash, Thursday, 17 June 2021 00:13 (one year ago) link

Watch: Votto restrained during epic tirade following ejection

— theScore MLB (@theScoreMLB) June 20, 2021

mookieproof, Sunday, 20 June 2021 01:20 (one year ago) link

I have an update on the sad Abigail situation! It took a couple of innings, but she eventually cheered up with some popcorn! And Joey Votto is SO KIND- he signed this amazing ball for her!! Thank you so much Mr. Votto & the wonderful @Reds ❤️⚾️

— Kristin (@SuperBarry11) June 20, 2021

mookieproof, Sunday, 20 June 2021 01:25 (one year ago) link

wow, i'm not sure i've ever seen a canadian do that

Karl Malone, Sunday, 20 June 2021 01:26 (one year ago) link

what a flawless follow-up with the signed ball though, classic votto

i think everyone's entitled to completely fucking lose their minds at least a few times, right?

Karl Malone, Sunday, 20 June 2021 01:26 (one year ago) link

Votto has a serious temper when it comes to balls and strikes calls. This is definitely not the first time. Of course, he IS Joey Votto - I think if anything, he does know the strike zone pretty well.

Votto/Reds/Padres got the little girl's family some choice seats today next to the Reds dugout, so crisis averted.

earlnash, Sunday, 20 June 2021 23:05 (one year ago) link

one month passes...

this guy

, Saturday, 31 July 2021 01:08 (one year ago) link

nine homers in seven games?

penny oleksiak had better step it up

mookieproof, Saturday, 31 July 2021 02:27 (one year ago) link

btw this surge has seemingly pushed him past the average HOF 1B in JAWS

mookieproof, Saturday, 31 July 2021 02:29 (one year ago) link

etobicoke ftw

mookieproof, Saturday, 31 July 2021 03:42 (one year ago) link

That pic is hilarious.

FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Saturday, 31 July 2021 04:45 (one year ago) link

“we had some shit talking motherfuckers in st louis”

brimstead, Saturday, 31 July 2021 05:55 (one year ago) link

very very nearly made it eight straight games tonight

mookieproof, Sunday, 1 August 2021 03:42 (one year ago) link

pure rim rest (Spottie), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 22:58 (one year ago) link

Seems unfathomable to have lived and worked in Cincy that long and NEVER had Skyline ever. I figured they put a 5 way in front of you when you signed your contract with the Reds.

earlnash, Thursday, 5 August 2021 12:35 (one year ago) link

Wait, he’s never had a skyline? damn, Joey Votto. I thought he was cool, but that’s downright disrespectful to not even try it

Read between the lines Zach (Karl Malone), Thursday, 5 August 2021 14:43 (one year ago) link

Gary Cohen just torching Skyline chili

— Andrew Marchand (@AndrewMarchand) July 20, 2021

mookieproof, Thursday, 5 August 2021 14:54 (one year ago) link

cohen's not even saying it right. it is pronounced


Read between the lines Zach (Karl Malone), Thursday, 5 August 2021 15:23 (one year ago) link

To be fair, he does not say he has never had Gold Star...which still to some Skyline people would be like saying 'well no wonder you don't like it, have you had Skyline?'

It's not for everyone and really it is much better to if it is below 32 degrees or you are about 9 beers into your evening.

Gold Star does have a bit more on the menu as you can get sandwich or a hamburger there, if you don't like Chili. Skyline is pretty much chili on a hotdog, in a burrito or in a bowl. They added salads sometime in the last decade or so.

You want to go old school local, you go to Zips. Although I go there, I am having a hamburger because they are f'n awesome.

earlnash, Thursday, 5 August 2021 20:21 (one year ago) link

four weeks pass...

after the reds split a doubleheader with st. louis

Joey Votto: "if we were playing European football, we would've won on aggregate"

— C. Trent Rosecrans (@ctrent) September 2, 2021

mookieproof, Thursday, 2 September 2021 03:05 (one year ago) link

eight months pass...

Reds scored 20 runs today; Votto was 0-3 before leaving, and is hitting .156.

clemenza, Friday, 27 May 2022 01:53 (eight months ago) link


Bruce Stingbean (Karl Malone), Friday, 27 May 2022 02:01 (eight months ago) link

it's normal and the way of things for older players (and i'm older than votto by 3 months, oooof, but that's ok, because that's also normal and the way of things) to eventually dry up and start to suck very badly.

but there's something that's just wrong about votto doing it. i was hoping that he'd be able to pull off a ted williams at age 40 kind of season before he goes. maybe he still will.

Bruce Stingbean (Karl Malone), Friday, 27 May 2022 02:02 (eight months ago) link

joey votto was a junior when i was a senior, oooof

Bruce Stingbean (Karl Malone), Friday, 27 May 2022 02:03 (eight months ago) link

i know everyone can do this, everyone on earth, with various people that are slightly younger than them but have accomplished so much more, and much more quickly. so let's let out a big ooooof, just let it all air out in the room

Bruce Stingbean (Karl Malone), Friday, 27 May 2022 02:04 (eight months ago) link

I recently had a mini breakdown upon realizing that joey gallo was in sixth grade while I was a high school senior

, Friday, 27 May 2022 06:24 (eight months ago) link

one month passes...
four weeks pass...

in a few minutes he will set a new record for games played by a canadian (passing larry walker)

mookieproof, Sunday, 14 August 2022 17:37 (five months ago) link

Out for the year:

He's signed through next year, so I guess he'll come back, but I don't know. I'm sure he doesn't want to go out like this. He turns 39 in a few weeks.

clemenza, Wednesday, 17 August 2022 20:47 (five months ago) link

i think you meant this one:

and yeah, he strikes me as someone who would want another chance to end on a high note

Bruce Stingbean (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 17 August 2022 22:39 (five months ago) link

I didn’t know I was hurt. Thought I just stunk.

— Joey Votto (@JoeyVotto) August 20, 2022

mookieproof, Saturday, 20 August 2022 03:09 (five months ago) link

one month passes...

This is so awesome.

Joey Votto (out for the season) is walking around the stands at the @Reds game. He’s hanging with fans, taking selfies, signing autographs, and sitting with kids to watch with them.

— Ben Verlander (@BenVerlander) September 21, 2022

Spottie, Thursday, 22 September 2022 00:04 (four months ago) link

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