there should be a union thread, but mainly because i just came across george will predictably being a prick in a review of marvin miller's book:
Sore Winner : A WHOLE DIFFERENT BALLGAME: The Sport and Business of Baseball, By Marvin Miller
― mookieproof, Sunday, 2 October 2016 02:31 (six years ago) link
I think, instinctively, that unions are one of the main reasons why north american leagues are that much better than european leagues.
― Van Horn Street, Monday, 3 October 2016 22:16 (six years ago) link
Also, great find Mooks, I always love reading George Will, even though yes he is a prick/most of the time I don't agree with him.
― Van Horn Street, Monday, 3 October 2016 22:17 (six years ago) link
part of the new CBA: the top 50 draft-eligible pitchers will be given the 'opportunity' to have 'voluntary' free MRIs on their arms
― mookieproof, Friday, 9 December 2016 15:02 (five years ago) link
― mookieproof, Monday, 23 January 2017 16:52 (five years ago) link
marvin miller, born 100 years ago today
― mookieproof, Friday, 14 April 2017 17:37 (five years ago) link
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 5 September 2017 15:05 (five years ago) link
Erik:I’ve noticed a ton of writers siding very strongly with the players this offseason. Do you think this will rally public support around the players in the next CBA? Do you think you guys have the power to actually change things, or do you view what you’re doing simply as reporting the facts of the baseball world as you see them? Either way, I’m rooting for you. Travis Sawchik: I think having the media craft a player-favorable narrative doesn’t hurt. Having the public in your corner is important … And I think the media has generally been reporting/stating facts and that is that free agency is broken and it’s a great time to be an owner. I think that’s objectively true.
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 17:11 (four years ago) link
Any antitrust case is really about whether or not the market at the core of the industry you’re suing about is competitive. So when Manfred says that the market is dictating what players are receiving, that’s an admission. Think about it: if the numbers show that contract values are down, that players are receiving fewer years and less money, and that fewer players are signing, with all else equal, then something in the market must have changed. And here is Manfred, confirming that the market is to blame. Even worse, that line about the players’ demands not making sense is basically telling the players to accept this new reality because that’s just the way it is.
― mookieproof, Friday, 16 February 2018 16:17 (four years ago) link
Manfred's pesona is slowly bending Bowie Kuhnward
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Friday, 16 February 2018 16:22 (four years ago) link
The MLB Players Association filed a grievance on Friday against the Rays, Marlins, A’s, and Pirates for not complying with revenue sharing rules.
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 28 February 2018 15:25 (four years ago) link
sneaking a "you don't have to pay baseball players" law into the omnibus is obviously shameful yes but maybe a bunch of white minor league guys will get super radicalized now— Official Centrism (@pareene) March 22, 2018
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 22 March 2018 16:32 (four years ago) link
*me watching the contradictions* they are heightened... they are far.... they are GONE— Official Centrism (@pareene) March 22, 2018
― mookieproof, Thursday, 22 March 2018 17:12 (four years ago) link
Every year in a private meeting, MLB hands out “The Belt” — a replica wrestling belt — to the team that did the most to keep player salaries down in arbitration. @MarcCarig on arbitration as the next front in baseball’s strained labor relations: https://t.co/64D95AD6U3— The Athletic MLB (@TheAthleticMLB) March 29, 2019
― mookieproof, Friday, 29 March 2019 14:19 (three years ago) link
has Jeter received it?
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 29 March 2019 16:20 (three years ago) link
re Acuna, an EW listener on FB asks,
"If every major star is locked up to a long-term extension before the CBA expires, does that increase or decrease the likelihood of a work stoppage?"
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 2 April 2019 16:56 (three years ago) link
it does feel like extension fever is teams scrambling to be able to say "see? we pay players!" when negotiations roll around
― na (NA), Tuesday, 2 April 2019 17:20 (three years ago) link
MLBPA Exec Dir Tony Clark: "We are interested in restoring meaningful free agency." Union is beginning an unprecedented round of mid-term bargaining with the league. Uncertainty as to where those talks go.— Eric Fisher (@EricFisherSBG) July 9, 2019
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 16:58 (three years ago) link
Tony Clark, President of MLBPA, told reporters that eliminating the MLB Draft is on the table in CBA negotiations.— Josh Nelson (@soxmachine_josh) July 9, 2019
i guess tony's opening position will be asking for the moon
― mookieproof, Tuesday, 9 July 2019 17:14 (three years ago) link
Stephanie Apstein in SI:
“I think we have unknowingly conceded a lot,” said Rays righty Charlie Morton. “Maybe not unknowingly. Maybe that’s the wrong word. You can read the CBA. You can know what’s in there. When you hear it, it sounds nice. And then three years later, you’re like, What did we just do? And now everybody’s pretty upset.”
This is not a fair fight. Players association head Tony Clark oversees 750 constituents who are aggrieved and cannot agree on why. Commissioner Rob Manfred is responsible for 30 ownership groups whose interests are simple and largely aligned: Make and keep as much money as possible.
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 11 July 2019 20:48 (three years ago) link
oh, you want to eliminate the draft? how about instead we double it
― mookieproof, Thursday, 25 July 2019 20:25 (three years ago) link
― mookieproof, Tuesday, 8 October 2019 15:50 (two years ago) link
still near the beginning of the article but it's quickly losing me with stuff like
"Now players are typically paid based on anticipated performance. By analyzing so-called age curves, which supposedly show that a player’s productivity generally declines after he reaches his early 30s, owners and general managers have adopted a kind of reverse seniority: The older you are, the less valuable you are."
― It is my great honor to post on this messageboard! (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 8 October 2019 17:00 (two years ago) link
https://www.sfchronicle.com/giants/article/Giants-prospect-posts-paystub-on-Twitter-to-shine-14499561.php#photo-18395431the "SAP act" - too on the nose?
― Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 9 October 2019 07:04 (two years ago) link
The context is wrong in the section you quoted:
Traditionally they were paid based on past performance. If a player did well during the previous two or three years, he could expect a significant increase in salary that reflected his contribution.
Now players are typically paid based on anticipated performance...
This is undoubtedly true.
I thought the article had a good overview of the problem, but had nothing good to say about how to get out of this mess.
― NoTimeBeforeTime, Wednesday, 9 October 2019 07:31 (two years ago) link
it's definitely true that they're paid on anticipated performance. i bolded the "supposedly" in "age curves, which supposedly show that a player’s productivity generally declines after he reaches his early 30s" because it implies that maybe age curves aren't a real thing, when...they definitely are.
(i also thought the example of gerardo parra as a player unjustly affected by modern management was a poor one - he sucks! of course no one gave him a contract last off-season, and the teams that ended up signing him this year regret it. dallas keuchel, mentioned the paragraph iirc, was a much better example.)
but all of that doesn't really take away from the general thrust of the article, which is good and informative, especially for a non-baseball-reading audience like the nation. whether aging curves are "real" or not (they are), they are part of the equation that ownership now uses to evaluate players and offer contracts. the current situation is untenable for anyone other than ownership - younger players get screwed (especially in the minor leagues), and then just as they gain the power to negotiate contracts with other teams, they're seen as inferior options compared to cheaper, younger (and often better) talent
― It is my great honor to post on this messageboard! (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 9 October 2019 15:01 (two years ago) link
silly question: if MLBPA goes on strike, does minor league play continue?
― It is my great honor to post on this messageboard! (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 9 October 2019 15:02 (two years ago) link
unclear, but a lot of triple-a guys with a cup of coffee are in the union
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 9 October 2019 15:10 (two years ago) link
Manfred said there is “not going to be a deal where we pay you in economics to get labor peace" and "maybe Marvin Miller’s financial system doesn’t work anymore.”Gear up, folks. A big labor fight is brewing. https://t.co/gHIQ0hJoOn— Craig Calcaterra (@craigcalcaterra) November 20, 2019
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 20 November 2019 21:31 (two years ago) link
how do i shot getting paid in economics
― Peaceful Warrior I Poser (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 20 November 2019 21:48 (two years ago) link
love to hit $10b in revenue then vivisect the golden goose to save a few nickels
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 20 November 2019 22:21 (two years ago) link
Trumpism comes (BACK) to MLB
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 20 November 2019 23:48 (two years ago) link
Gerrit Cole thanked Marvin Miller for his contributions to baseball, along with Curt Flood. Cole is a big players' association guy, joining a few other vocal players in that clubhouse.— Lindsey Adler (@lindseyadler) December 18, 2019
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 18 December 2019 16:27 (two years ago) link
Gerrit Cole thanked Marvin Miller and Curt Flood in his press conference. How does he know so much about baseball labor history? Apparently Pirates catcher John Buck used to drag rookies to the front of the bus and ask them about it: “Get your f——— book reports ready, kids.”— Stephanie Apstein (@stephapstein) December 18, 2019
― Andy K, Thursday, 19 December 2019 01:59 (two years ago) link
apparently MLB is going to voluntarily recognize the minor leaguers' unionization without forcing a vote? i am surprised; can only assume they saw absolutely no hope of it losing
either that or they're excited at the opportunity to make the major leaguers give up serious money in return for the minor leaguers getting a little more money
― mookieproof, Friday, 9 September 2022 22:13 (three weeks ago) link
think it's a few things
1. MLB's reputation is in the dumps after the labor disputes of 2020 and 2022, the bad PR that would come from the pre-election union busting campaign would be disastrous given the low likelihood it would even work. 2. that bad PR would be multiplied 50x fighting against players making $8k a year3. the union has the weight of AFL-CIO behind it now, and a major union probably offers much better support to the minor leaguers than an independent MLB union could
― ✖, Friday, 9 September 2022 23:02 (three weeks ago) link