HOT STOVE LEAGUE 2K4/2K5

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Urbina is a big question mark. His mother is still missing after being kidnapped in Caracas.

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 21:42 (nineteen years ago) link

Hmmn. Okay that makes more sense.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 21:43 (nineteen years ago) link

As a fan of the team owned in part by Jerry Reinsdorf, I guess I can safely snooze 'til pitchers and catchers report, as I know my team won't be signing jack squat at these prices.

Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 22:55 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm going to out on a limb and claim that I don't think the market is THAT over-inflated.

Vizquel made $6.25M in 04, he will make $4.08M in 05 (-35%)
Percival made $7.8M in 04, and will make $6M in 05 (-23%)

Those are some pretty significant pay decreases which do not look out of line for guys in their mid-30s who can still play reasonably well.

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 23:01 (nineteen years ago) link

When did those two guys sign their previous contracts though?

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 23:02 (nineteen years ago) link

Both 2002
Vizquel (CLE) $15.0M over 2 years ('03-'04 + mutual option)
Troy Percival (ANA) 2 years/$16M

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 23:10 (nineteen years ago) link

Both still seem a little price-y to me (although it's really the THIRD year with Vizquel that's crazy, not the money.)

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 23:12 (nineteen years ago) link

It's worth nothing taking a lump sum straight average over time, the decrease is even greater:

Vizquel: $15M/2yrs : $12.25/3 yrs = -45%
Percival: $16M/2yrs : $12M/2 yrs = -25%

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 23:14 (nineteen years ago) link

The White Sox offered Vizquel $10M over 2 years, ultimately Vizquel wanted to be close to Seattle.

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 23:17 (nineteen years ago) link

So why didn't the Giants just match that deal instead of tacking the extra year and $2m+ on?

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 23:25 (nineteen years ago) link

Because Sabean is taking the Giants to Coconut Grove instead of Arizona this year:

http://www.movieactors.com/photos-sf/cocoon.jpeg

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 23:35 (nineteen years ago) link

Thank you Detroit for signing Percival, being a Cubs fan I figured the Dave Smith/Doug Jones ancient closer syndrome might strike once again. The Cubbies definitely need to find a decent closer.

Beltran won't come to Chicago, I know there is some delusional thinking that it might happen, but I don't see it happening. Major free agent stars don't decide to play for either Chicago teams, it just doesn't happen.

I do think Jeff Kent might end up a Cub. Nomar won't be back, but I could see Chicago going after Cabrera, especially if they get Kent. They really need another left handed bat, but neither of these guys are one, so that trade for Sosa for Green could be good. I still have a feeling Sammy will be playing for the Cubs next season.

The Giants need to get with the stick and sign Moises Alou to complete the ancient ones.

Earl Nash (earlnash), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 23:39 (nineteen years ago) link

Giants fans -- don't forget about Julio Franco! He's a free agent too!

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 18 November 2004 00:02 (nineteen years ago) link

Andres Galarraga!

gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 18 November 2004 00:03 (nineteen years ago) link

Don Sutton!

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 18 November 2004 00:26 (nineteen years ago) link

Minnie Minoso!

David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 18 November 2004 00:46 (nineteen years ago) link

Jesse Orosco!

The Twinkies also have a couple of ancients in their midst they could deal to the Giants with Terry Mulholland and Pat Borders.

They need to bring back Benito Santiago, he was the perfect catcher for their team. They would look like an Allstar lineup from 1993!

Earl Nash (earlnash), Thursday, 18 November 2004 01:04 (nineteen years ago) link

Oh yeah...don't forget the Rickey! Henderson is still waiting for another team to give him another shot.

Earl Nash (earlnash), Thursday, 18 November 2004 01:05 (nineteen years ago) link

has anyone heard anything on a 'mark mulder to braves for marcus giles and prospects' front?

cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 18 November 2004 02:59 (nineteen years ago) link

i've also heard the o's are looking to package some combo of hairston or mike fontenot w/ erik bedard or john maine for one of the a's top three starters.

jonathan quayle higgins (j.q. higgins), Thursday, 18 November 2004 17:51 (nineteen years ago) link

haha?

John (jdahlem), Thursday, 18 November 2004 17:54 (nineteen years ago) link

Good luck w/ that, Mr. Flanagan et. al. - I think the Bravos will beat the O's to a tenable deal for any A's starter, (un)fortunately (if Blount's rumor has any basis in fact).

David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 18 November 2004 18:14 (nineteen years ago) link

yeah, i'd take giles over hairston in a flash myself.

but there has to be some market for moderately-priced 2b/of guy w/ good average & obp, huh?

on another note: anyone see espn's ranking of fa's and projected suitors?

kinda silly.

jonathan quayle higgins (j.q. higgins), Thursday, 18 November 2004 18:46 (nineteen years ago) link

Maybe the O's should be talking to the Expos / Greys about Vidro? Ha?

David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 18 November 2004 19:29 (nineteen years ago) link

no, the o's are okay at 2b. hairston and fontenot are surplus to requirements. i reckon tejada and mora and certainly roberts will be around for a few more years, so there's not really a place to put fontenot. hairston proved himself a capable outfielder, but he's a good 2b.

i would bet that carlos delgado has become their prime offensive target. it seems that the magglio ordonez talk has cooled quite a bit.

jonathan quayle higgins (j.q. higgins), Thursday, 18 November 2004 20:54 (nineteen years ago) link

Speaking of 1st baggers, I really don't get the Palmeiro signing - the O's have a bunch of decent youngish hitters w/ no position, so they sign a guy obviously on the decline to DH & take away 400 ABs from these pseudo-kids? Huh? Unless the signing's a pre-emptive Trading Deadline move (to hopefully acquire s'more chits / minor league fodder), it's dopey.

David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 18 November 2004 21:05 (nineteen years ago) link

they don't really have any power hitters in the system close to major league ready.

hairston and roberts are basically the same guy. matos and bigbie are basically the same guy. gibbons seems to injury prone to make an impact.

markakis is a couple years off and has good power potential as does this other guy...walter something or other.

jonathan quayle higgins (j.q. higgins), Thursday, 18 November 2004 23:49 (nineteen years ago) link

The Anaheim Angels traded troubled outfielder Jose Guillen to the Washington-bound Expos for outfielder Juan Rivera and a prospect, The Associated Press learned Friday.

maura (maura), Friday, 19 November 2004 20:38 (nineteen years ago) link

White Sox avoid arbitration and sign Jon Garland for one more year @ $3.5 million. Big whoop.

Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Friday, 19 November 2004 20:42 (nineteen years ago) link

I kind of wish the A's could have gotten Guillen back even though he's probably batshit crazy.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:19 (nineteen years ago) link

guillen for rivera + prospect??? weren't they supposed to get piazza for him yesterday?

Yanc3y (ystrickler), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:07 (nineteen years ago) link

Really? That seems nuts.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:17 (nineteen years ago) link

funny yahoo pic/caption:
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/spo/med/2004/11/ipt/1101145422.jpg
Jason Kendall excels at getting on base. (AP)

I guess Oakland is in talks with Pittsburgh, maybe Zito for Kendall?

gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 22 November 2004 18:20 (nineteen years ago) link

Newsday columnist claims that an "AL source" thinks Oakland is most apt to trade Hudson -- who is thought to have the brightest future, hence the most expensive one:

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/nyspken214050892nov21,0,7933337.column

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 22 November 2004 19:44 (nineteen years ago) link


Let's try that link again, DAMMIT!

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/ny-spken214050892nov21,0,7933337.column

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 22 November 2004 19:46 (nineteen years ago) link

anyone else think billy would be pushing his luck by dealing one of the three now? obviously he has had a lot of success dealing the big bats the past four years, but in large part that's been thanks to the pitching staff, correct? i know that oakland's offensive numbers haven't dropped much -- didn't they go up post-tejada? -- but having three of the best pitchers in baseball can cover up a lot of deficiencies. i mean, jason kendall??? are they serious? you can't deal one of the big three for a rental. it has to be for prospects. zito for bay and perez or something like that, but not kendall!!

Yanc3y (ystrickler), Monday, 22 November 2004 20:15 (nineteen years ago) link

Yeah, I don't believe the Hudson for Kendall thing for a second (unless they are getting a lot of prospects, draft picks and/or $$$ in addition.)

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 22 November 2004 20:19 (nineteen years ago) link

I would start The Church of Beane if he could trick the Pierats to give up Bay & Perez for Zito. I don't see Hudson for Kendall being a fair swap by any means, but I can see him trying to fix a problem area by flipping Hudson - save some cash, plug a hole, slot Harden into Hudson's role in The Big 3 & give one of the kids (Blankton?) a chance in the rotation? Unless maybe he wants to rent JK to free up some cash to chase down someone in the 2K5 free agent market OR the 2K5/6 trading deadline? I dunno - I feel secure in commenting on dipshitty GMs screwing the couch, but folks that have a decent idea of what they're trying to accomplish, I feel I should just shut my yap & watch them work.

Regardless, seeing the A's weather the supposed debilitating loss of their superstar has been quite remarkable. They lose Tejada, but get capable production from Crosby, see a spike in production from Durazo & Chavez, get a full year of Eric Byrnes' goodness and a damn good year from a (finally!) healthy Mark Kotsay. If it wasn't for Arthur Rhodes (& other bullpen pitchers not named Octavio Dotel or Justin Durscherer) blowing up in their face, and the Big 3 doing #2 on the mound for a short portion of the year, they would've played the Red Sox in the DS.

Is Jermaine Dye off their books yet?

David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 22 November 2004 20:38 (nineteen years ago) link

you can't deal one of the big three for a rental.

Essentially (since he's in the final season of his contract), they are "renting" Zito. And forget the "big three" talk, there are FOUR quality starters on the As, and Zito's arguably the most disposable of them.

Another side note that I've wanted to touch on here but always forget to is that in last year's BP guide they pointed out the departure of longtime Oakland pitching coach/trainer (i can't remember which one) and forecasted a steep decline in the quality of Oakland's pitching. Needless to say they were right.

And I seriously doubt that the Pirates (who stole Perez & Bay from SD) would be so willing to give them up.

gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 22 November 2004 20:43 (nineteen years ago) link

there are FOUR quality starters

The others who started games in 2004 were Mark Redman and Kirk Saarlos.

And yes, Jermaine Dye is off the books (hence the resigning of Chavez).

gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 22 November 2004 20:45 (nineteen years ago) link

you don't count harden????

and yes i doubt the pirates would ever make the trade i suggested above, but to deal for kendall would be a HUGE mistake.

Yanc3y (ystrickler), Monday, 22 November 2004 20:49 (nineteen years ago) link

I think the Pirate fans would revolt if they dealt off Perez and Bay, they are who they need to build up the club around. I saw Perez pitch four times last year on TV and was very impressed, he could be a star.

Earl Nash (earlnash), Monday, 22 November 2004 20:54 (nineteen years ago) link

Gygax OTM ... in fact, the A's will be bending their modus operandi if they sign even ONE of the Big 3. And it's no longer remotely obvious that Zito is "one of the best."

Kendall DID lead NL catchers in VORP last year (trailing Pudge, Javy, Posada, Martinez and Varitek in the AL).

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 22 November 2004 20:54 (nineteen years ago) link

the departure of longtime Oakland pitching coach/trainer

You're talking about Rick "Kazmir Ain't Spit" Peterson, right?

Yanc3, I think he's counting Harden as 1 of the 4 - Saarloos got starts when one of the 3 went on the DL. I was under the impression that Redman had a solid #5 type of year, but I could be wrong.

David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 22 November 2004 20:54 (nineteen years ago) link

you don't count harden????

Oh no I do!!! It's just that nobody else seems to ("Big Three this and that"), Harden outpitched Zito last year.

Oliver Perez reminds me a little bit of Johan. Esp. the change when it's working.

And yes, Redman as their #5 guy is pretty solid.

Here are the Sacramento Rivercats (NOTE: hitter-friendly PCL, it would be nice to see these adjusted) pitching stats:

http://rivercats.com/game/stats/?type=pitching

gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 22 November 2004 21:03 (nineteen years ago) link

Damn.... look at those K/BB ratios.

gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 22 November 2004 21:10 (nineteen years ago) link

haha, or W/KO ratios in this case...

gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 22 November 2004 21:11 (nineteen years ago) link

Oh no I do!!! It's just that nobody else seems to ("Big Three this and that"), Harden outpitched Zito last year.

Zito hasn't shown much of the excellence that he showed up to and including his CY year. His reputation far exceeds his ability at this point, and Beane surely has recognized the slow slide in his performance over the last couple of years. I'll be shocked if Zito doesn't get dealt soon.

Is Rick Peterson some sort of conditioning wizard? Oakland's pitching was great up until around the end of July, then everybody became ass all at once. So ... was this just bad luck, or a mark of bad coaching/preparation?

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Monday, 22 November 2004 22:48 (nineteen years ago) link

The Yomiuri Giants, perhaps shamed by their post-Gozirra (Matsui) disappointment, sign Gabe Kapler to a one year deal.

Kapler first to bolt World Series champions

November 22, 2004

BOSTON (AP) -- Gabe Kapler became the first player to leave the World Series champion Boston Red Sox, agreeing to a one-year contract with the Yomiuri Giants in Tokyo.

``He spent the better part of a week really agonizing over the decision,'' agent Paul Cohen said Monday. ``He really felt at this point in his career, he wanted the guarantee to play.''

Kapler, 29, was a backup on the Red Sox team that won the AL wild-card berth, then came back from a 3-0 deficit to beat the New York Yankees in the AL championship series. Boston swept St. Louis in the World Series, with Kapler going 0-for-2 and appearing in all four games.

ADVERTISEMENT
Kapler, among 16 Boston players who became free agents, was a full-time player for three seasons, the last in 2001, when he played 134 games for Texas. He joined Boston from Colorado during the 2003 season and appeared in 63 games with the Red Sox, batting .291.

Last season, he played in 136 games but started only 73 and hit .272 in 290 at bats.

With Manny Ramirez, Johnny Damon and Trot Nixon all under contract, the Red Sox starting outfield seems set for next season. They also have outfielder Dave Roberts, a starter with Los Angeles before Boston acquired him July 31.

gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 00:28 (nineteen years ago) link

Pedro supposedly wants $60 over 4 years. That's crazy. George, he is all yours.

Did anyone else catch the YES 2K4 Yankee season recap? I only watched a brief snippet (because, y'know, I wanted to have a little gloat, & I was curious as to how they'd address the season's conclusion). The one segment I caught was a roundtable discussion w/ Brian Cashman. Not that it was really a "discussion" - it was more like an interrogation or a hostile exit interview, w/ Michael Kay & Suzyn Waldman asking blunt pointed questions about where things went wrong & how they were going to reload for the upcoming year. As always, BC looked like he just crapped himself, or maybe that's his face of restraint - lord knows I'd be hard pressed to control my temper if I had puppet asshats grilling me about the shortcomings of personnel decisions I possibly had little control over (if only because I imagine George asked the very same questions, albeit in a more profane manner). Should I be surprised that the broadcast tentacle of the Yankee behemoth is exhibiting the same sort of pensive anger and soulless resolve as the mother brain in regards to what happened last year? Should I read anything into the YES Network's endless rebroadcasting of past glories over the last 4 weeks? Am I a hypocrite for painting Los Yanquis as cold haet-filled automotons while I pledge my support to the team that's right behind them in terms of wealth & power & nuclear capabilities?

Also - Suzyn Waldman is joining Andy Capp in the Yankee radio broadcast booth; Mr. Charley Steiner is possibly escaping to the Dodgers' broadcast booth.

David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 15:58 (nineteen years ago) link


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