Ichiro/Sisler Watch!

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(PS: hitters of the '20s were so prolific because the spitball had just been banned and pitchers were leery after the Ray Chapman beanball death incident and umpires ruled that old mushy deadened balls couldn't remain in play as often, so ta-da, offensive explosion. stick it, old-timers)

― alfalfa romeo (natepatrin), Friday, 17 September 2004 16:42 (twenty-one years ago)

He's not gonna break the record.

― gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 17 September 2004 17:50 (twenty-one years ago)

He's certainly not gonna break it in 154 games. ASTERISK!!!

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 17 September 2004 18:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Exactly.

― gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 17 September 2004 18:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Nate, you still have to give credit to Sisler. Everyone in the league benefitted from the things you mentioned, but he was the only one who got that many hits.

― oops (Oops), Friday, 17 September 2004 18:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Nate, that rant you linked to was awesome. Delusion at its finest.

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Friday, 17 September 2004 18:56 (twenty-one years ago)

I should really use the pejorative "scums" more often.

― alfalfa romeo (natepatrin), Friday, 17 September 2004 19:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Ichiro is 5 for 5 tonight. 243 hits with 11 games left after tonight, needing 15 hits.

― Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 03:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Ichiro broke the MLB record for singles in a a season (with an asterisk) yesterday:

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 17:19 (twenty-one years ago)

If there's 12 games left, why the asterisk?

― oops (Oops), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 21:20 (twenty-one years ago)

wait when did the switch to 154 games?

― oops (Oops), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 21:21 (twenty-one years ago)

In 1898, when Wee Willie Keeler established the record for singles in a season, his Brooklyn Bridegrooms played 149 games. Other teams in the league played anywhere from 145-152 games that year.

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 21:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Oops, I meant that Keeler played for the Baltimore Orioles. Still 149 games, though.

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 21:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Based on some very cursory research, it looks like the 154-game season was established in 1904.

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 21:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Although this site claims it was 1892, so I dunno. I'm guessing that maybe it was officially a 154-game season, but the actual likelihood of each team playing all 154 games was slim, as rain-outs probably weren't made up as frequently as they are now. (The Cubs' games from Sunday-Tuesday of this week were each in a different city!)

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 22:00 (twenty-one years ago)

so how many anti-ichiro screeds has BP put up so far? or is he still not getting enough attention/praise to make the effort worthwhile?

― John (jdahlem), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 22:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Baseball Prospectus is like the No Depression of MLB mags

― Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 22:36 (twenty-one years ago)

it's more like the OMNI of MLB mags.

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 22:45 (twenty-one years ago)

more like the ILM of music mags (if ILM was a mag)

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 22:47 (twenty-one years ago)

nah, it's not that bad.

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 22:49 (twenty-one years ago)

ack, I meant to write "the ILM of MLB mags", but I guess the point was made.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 23:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Ichiro has 3 more hits tonight, giving him 246 on the year, 11 hits to tie with 10 games left. Y'all do the math

oh and to paraphrase gygax up yonder, Raul Ibanez is 6 for 6, wtf

― Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 23 September 2004 04:01 (twenty-one years ago)

make that four hits! Ichiro is up to 247 hits and a .374 BA

ten games to go...

― Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 23 September 2004 04:42 (twenty-one years ago)

He did it! He tied Sisler in the 1st inning tonight. With 3 games left, it seems academic at this point whether he'll get more than Sisler.

Incredible.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Saturday, 2 October 2004 01:20 (twenty-one years ago)

...and one AB later, he breaks Sisler's record. What a machine.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Saturday, 2 October 2004 01:52 (twenty-one years ago)

awesome! he's also got the record for most hits in a four year span.

he's 30 - i can't help but wonder how long he'll be keeping this up.

― John (jdahlem), Saturday, 2 October 2004 02:29 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd like to take credit for beginning the countdown long before anyone in the media thx

― Gear! (Gear!), Saturday, 2 October 2004 02:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Full credit given, Gear. I didn't know the name George Sisler prior to seeing this thread, and I sure as fuck wasn't paying attention to anything relating to the Mariners 'til this.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Saturday, 2 October 2004 02:43 (twenty-one years ago)

― oops (Oops), Saturday, 2 October 2004 05:41 (twenty-one years ago)

oops OTM

― gygax! (gygax!), Saturday, 2 October 2004 06:46 (twenty-one years ago)

But of course.

― David R. (popshots75`), Saturday, 2 October 2004 13:44 (twenty-one years ago)

awhile ago i mentioned a study of speed's traditionally unquantified effects on the game, with ichiro as the focal point. i finally found it: http://www.diamond-mind.com/articles/ichiro.htm

what's most interesting to me at the moment is that tippet implies ichiro's speed on the basepaths more than makes up for his many infield singles presumably failing to advance runners the traditional 2 bases. i don't know about that, but it would seem that basic run metrics like EQR, VORP, or RC might end up with a pretty accurate estimation of ichiro's worth after all. (he's also said to create a further unmeasured ~5 runs due to his DP/GB rate, so they may indeed undershoot his worth)

here's where he places among fellow ALers:

EQR 2nd
EQA 10th
VORP 4th
RC 1st
RC/27 7th

― John (jdahlem), Saturday, 2 October 2004 13:45 (twenty-one years ago)

migawd are you asterisk ppl for real???

― John (jdahlem), Saturday, 2 October 2004 13:51 (twenty-one years ago)

more specific q to asterisk-ppl: would you be saying the same of any other record? did you agree with the maris asterisk? if there's consistency here i've no major quarrel with you freaks.

reading over this thread i saw my BP anti-ichiro question, and while i can't answer it this http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=3518 is a free roundtable discussion they posted today

joe sheehan prepares to set the tone but is quickly taken to task by mariners fan zumsteg and left pleading "gut feeling". we only get one "it's just cuz he hustles and ppl are suckers for that" comment and it might be sarcastic, tho i doubt it. there is a hilarious reply to sheehan's drivel here http://ussmariner.com/index.php?p=1939

(sheehan does have a couple seeds for thought desperately trying to bud amidst all the bullshit but the unchecked acrimoniousness of that retort made me lol) (although that was probably because i inititally thought it was derek zumsteg himself, taking the gloves off after some kind of split!)

― John (jdahlem), Saturday, 2 October 2004 15:06 (twenty-one years ago)

i think they're saying * on sisler's record cuz he only had to play against fat white guys

― cinniblount (James Blount), Saturday, 2 October 2004 15:24 (twenty-one years ago)

and wells is in the nl this year

― cinniblount (James Blount), Saturday, 2 October 2004 15:24 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm all for measuring records over averages rather than aggregates.

― gygax! (gygax!), Saturday, 2 October 2004 16:01 (twenty-one years ago)

er, why not do both, like we do now? to some extent anyway. and that's totally unrealistic anyway but i'm sure you know that.

i was mistaken above, ichiro's in a tie for 2nd in AL VORP.

― John (jdahlem), Saturday, 2 October 2004 16:11 (twenty-one years ago)

I think the essence is: Ichiro's ability to hit the ball in ways no one else seems able to is astounding. He's had one of the best seasons in the league this year, BUT not even close to one of the great years in history, and that's where his most wild-eyed fans are mistaken.

And I am curious, like Sheehan, to see if he can hit .420+ in several different months next year.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 4 October 2004 12:37 (twenty-one years ago)

ten months pass...

Ichiro/Waner Watch:

Jul 31: Ichiro belted a pair of home runs in the Mariners' 3-2 win over the Cleveland Indians Saturday, breaking Paul Waner's 75-year-old record for most hits in his first five major league seasons. He now has 1,059 career hits with 49 games still left on the schedule.

It took Waner 747 games to amass 1,057 hits from 1926-30. Ichiro has played in 737 big league contests to date.

based on his career averages, it seems like he should have broken that record about a month ago. what's going on this year?

― the leglo (the leglo), Friday, 5 August 2005 12:37 (twenty years ago)

i mean, he's still hitting .300, but after last year, it seems like a huge disappointment.

― the leglo (the leglo), Friday, 5 August 2005 12:38 (twenty years ago)

Dude's getting old.

Also, after last year, ANYTHING'S gonna be a disappointment!

― David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 5 August 2005 12:48 (twenty years ago)

jeez let up a little. ichiro's awesome. he will be a hofer.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 5 August 2005 13:57 (twenty years ago)

one month passes...

http://www.hardballtimes.com/images/uploads/ichiro_graph.gif

Outlier anyone? Check today's Hardball Times for a great article on Ichiro's regression.

He has definitely lost a step or two speedwise. He flubbed a flyball yesterday, not too different from the one that got away last week.

― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 6 September 2005 15:41 (twenty years ago)

From that same article: "If Ichiro has slowed down, then why are his triples up, and his stolen bases and stolen-base percentage nearly equal to his numbers from last year? Why is he posting a career high Range Factor (2.56) and a much better Zone Rating (.883) than last season? His defense hasn't declined and neither has his speed on the base paths..."

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Tuesday, 6 September 2005 16:21 (twenty years ago)

My observation was based on watching him attempt to run out 3 groundouts and comparing it to the same blazing speed that I had seen in years previous.

His range on the flub (scored a single) looked feeble, like there was no doubt that a ball in semi-shallow right was a potential out (the A's fans were particularly shocked at the miscue). Ichiro got a bad jump, and the play was bookended by a particularly ungraceful finish (he inadvertantly kicked the ball into the infield after the flub).

― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 6 September 2005 16:30 (twenty years ago)

hey at least he kicked it into the infield! also: "who are you going to believe, statistics in the article you yourself quoted or your own lying eyes?"

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Tuesday, 6 September 2005 16:40 (twenty years ago)

...or the home scorer who gives Ellis a single...

― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 6 September 2005 16:51 (twenty years ago)

(That was the only flyball out of the infield off of Felix Hernandez in his 7 innings pitched BTW... maybe Ichiro was sleeping).

― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 6 September 2005 16:56 (twenty years ago)

or contemplating how a lot of baseball statheads have been ragging on him for years as a substandard overhyped player who needs to improve his power numbers in order to be a useful corner outfielder, and why they are changing their tunes now that he's gone and done it, and how everyone agrees that BA is all overhyped but the fact that his is down from last year WHEN HE GOT MORE HITS THAN ANYONE EVER is somehow cause for huge scary alarm and editorials and stuff

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Tuesday, 6 September 2005 17:08 (twenty years ago)

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