hall of fame, next vote...

it also grades him as a good defender, which probably shows some level of imperfection in how defense is measured behind the plate.

Will have to revisit...he does okay with bWAR: ~35 right now, should end up around 45-50.

yeah, i'd be curious what people who saw perez play more frequently have to say about his defense! i only got to see him play a handful of times

fWAR did a big revamp to catching WAR a year or two ago, and i remember that yadi got a huuuuuuuge boost for certain seasons. in particular, his 2012 season suddenly became monstrous and MVP-like because of a boost to his DEF.

i don't think perez fared well in that change to fWAR/catcher value

At the very least, he seems like a guy who'd go in via the VC down the road.

anyway, sorry to drag it into WAR crap - like i mentioned, i do understand and respect that the HoF is about more than all that. and perez has been a lifelong royal, heavy respect for that

That's what I think will give him an edge with the VC (along with the round numbers and the GG/ASG/WS honours): reputation as a team leader, and maybe the one-team career, which I suspect is a positive. The VC has rescued a couple of WAR guys (Ted Simmons and Trammell), but mostly it catches players who fall short on WAR but were thought at one time to be headed for the HOF (McGriff, Hodges, Kaat, Oliva, etc.--long list).

Salvy is far below Posada and slightly below contemporary JT in JAWS. Munson is 11th all time and not in.

I fully expect Munson to be reevaluated when Posey goes in; they are so similar in so many ways.

Except the death and being unpleasant part

Wasn't he the lovable curmudgeon on a high-priced glamour team?

i would say he was an unpleasant redass on a high-priced team of psychos but flags fly forever

Found this old SI piece: "prickly."

https://vault.si.com/vault/1976/09/13/hes-a-dish-only-behind-the-plate

Actually just ordered Dan Epstein's book on Ron Blomberg and Munson a few days ago.

Anyway, outside of personalities (think I posted about this when Posey retired):

Posey - ROY, MVP (1.63 MVP share), 3 WS, 1 GG, 5,607 PA, 44.8 bWAR (5.3/162 games)
Munson - ROY, MVP (1.50 MVP share), 2 WS 3 GG, 5,344 PA, 46.1 bWAR (5.2/162 games)

Posey was the better hitter, for sure.

an unpleasant redass on a high-priced team of psychos

I would watch this miniseries

You're in luck: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bronx_Is_Burning.

Well shit! 7.8 on IMDB!

I've seen it. It held my attention (had already read the book), but as I remember it, some laughable performances in there.

Some FB thing, easy to cut and paste:

https://i.postimg.cc/DzPxhCnW/hof.jpg

Obviously they're too cautious re "could retire today"--you could add another five from the "probably" group--and some from their bottom group could be moved up. Don't think I'd put any closer above "there's a chance" at this point.

Not looking fwd to janssen and kimbrel discourse

Also yelich is a hard no way. Hes not there in peak, war total or jaws qnd dont see him moving that needle

Also a PED issue, no?

N ur thinking of braun

I’d put Trea Turner ahead of Clase or Yelich in terms of HoF odds

(xpost) Right...If Yelich were in the middle of a five-season run where he was playing at an AS level, I'd say he's in decent position, but that's not the shape of his career.

i would kinda also think that kimbrel is shooting his own dick off by continuing to play but this line just sucks to look at regardless

Career WAR | 19.4 7yr-peak WAR | 21.4 JAWS | 20.2 R-JAWS | 1.9 WAR/162

Average HOF RP (out of 8):

39.1 career WAR | 26.0 7yr-peak WAR | 32.5 JAWS | 29.7 R-JAWS | 2.5 WAR/162

Kenley is not better.

22.2 career WAR | 16.0 7yr-peak WAR | 19.1 JAWS | 22.7 R-JAWS | 1.7 WAR/162

Average HOF RP (out of 8):

39.1 career WAR | 26.0 7yr-peak WAR | 32.5 JAWS | 29.7 R-JAWS | 2.5 WAR/162

Not looking fwd to janssen and kimbrel discourse

― Its big ball chunky time (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Friday, August 30, 2024 1:29 PM (four hours ago)

I'm going to enlist Dana Bash to grill you on this flagrant flip-flop.

Kimbrel has been a plain bad closer since 2018, one half season with the Cubs notwithstanding. Kenley just doesn't really rise to some level that transcends being a closer, either. their value overall is so much less than, idk, Jason Heyward.

Definitely move to "it's gonna be close": Ramirez, Soto, Alvarez, Lindor. (And if you wanted to argue for "probably," I wouldn't disagree.)

yeah soto just seems like the kind of guy who will be putting up 5-7 WAR seasons for the next 10 years

Tbf, that average hall of fame RP WAR is probably inflated a little because Hoyt and Eck were starters for a while. I’d think if you just took their years as actual relievers, the avg career war would be under 30

Not having a great year, but I realize that one obvious omission from the "Too Early" group is Xander Bogaerts. No fewer than six HOF'ers on his Similarity Score list through age 30, and at 40.5 bWAR, he's ahead of Bregman and Seager and other guys who are younger. Five Silver Sluggers, MVP support in five seasons. He has to turn it around next season, and he's got a ways to go, but he's in just as good a position as some of the players listed there.

Kimbrel has been a plain bad closer since 2018, one half season with the Cubs notwithstanding

:|

Having to do with an incorrect Immaculate Grid answer today--6.0+ WAR season with the Orioles--I looked up Ken Singleton's career box. What a solid hitter: 132 career OPS+, oWAR just under 50. But never a 6.0 season because his defensive numbers on BRef are very poor. I was thinking that if you took his career -17.3 dWAR and made it positive--if he'd been a really good defender to go along with all the offense--he'd be in the same spot as Jim Edmonds, a viable candidate with ~ 65 WAR who may yet get in via the VC one day.

Which you could probably say about numerous players, I'm sure.

also a better broadcaster than michael kay (a low bar, i know)

Plus he'd have all his broadcasting credentials. Plus Bill James' wife picked him as the handsomest player of the '70s.

!

Susan James has a great deal of sway with who does and doesn't get into the HOF.

led the league in damn! shares

Idc about the HoF but I know most of you do and so:

As I believe was reported over the weekend, Luis Tiant will officially appear on the Baseball Hall of Fame’s Classic Era ballot.

Full ballot includes: Dick Allen, Ken Boyer, John Donaldson, Steve Garvey, Vic Harris, Tommy John, Dave Parker and Tiant.

As I believe was reported over the weekend, Luis Tiant will officially appear on the Baseball Hall of Fame’s Classic Era ballot.

Full ballot includes: Dick Allen, Ken Boyer, John Donaldson, Steve Garvey, Vic Harris, Tommy John, Dave Parker and Tiant.

— Mac Cerullo (@MacCerullo) November 4, 2024

Josh Donaldson got on there rather quick

whoo boy is dyslexia fun sometimes

Allen, Tiant, and Tommy John should 100% go in, and I think they will. There's a case for Parker, but iffier on him.

Took a look at Parker's career box. His peak window is so brief: '75-79, with a power outage in '76. He had some good bulk-number seasons in the '80s, and was runner-up for the '85 NL MVP--he shouldn't have been--but that was his only season for the entire decade with a bWAR over 2.0. His career numbers are somewhat comparable to Rice's, but Rice was of course a borderline pick himself, and Parker's numbers fall a little short of even that.

Not sure why Lou Whitaker or Dwight Evans weren't on there...maybe you have to wait a cycle or two after not being voted in, I don't know.

stats-wise, parker doesn't really belong (although there are, of course HOFers who belong even less). but in his favor i would submit:

- subject of two of the best photos of baseball players ever
- 'the cobra' is a hall-of-fame nickname
- that throw in the all-star game
- on why he wore a star of david necklace: 'because i'm a david and i'm a star'
- i honestly feel like 'fame' should be part of the equation
- a+ surname
- it would make me happy

anyway dick allen should be a gimme

I said there was a case, and you made it well. He might also have sentiment on his side because of his Parkinson's--if he got voted in, I wouldn't expect to hear many complaints (except maybe to bring up other deserving players not in).