2023 World Series: Arizona Diamondbacks vs Texas Rangers

Man, the Rangers are getting fooled up there...So weird to see two starting pitchers go so deep in a WS game. I'd like to think a page has been turned, but I doubt it. Think both kept their pitch count down tonight.

Texas' defense has probably kept them in the game.

Kelly pitched an absolute gem. Everything right on the edge of the zone. Dominant performance solely responsible for getting the dbacks back into this World Series. Can’t get enough credit

Both a great game to get my bone baseball friend into the game (corner pitching is impressive) and a bad game for it (where was the back and forth like yesterday). Definitely a great game, really enjoyed what both teams were able to do. For a moment there was a possibility we’d get a CG from both teams

Now that it's basically over, would you call that a great game? Kelly pitched great, but I'm not sure if anything else will be remembered, and now it's a rout.

It was 6 innings of a great game followed by 3 innings of a great game for diamondback fans in particular. Wouldn’t call it a bad one by any means. Happy to see the series tied up

Very interested to see what the Rangers get out of Scherzer on Monday. Don't mean to sound cold, but I don't know how far "Well, Max has been hurt, and it's amazing he's even out there" will go this time. They need five pretty strong innings from him (two runs or less, let's say).

what about a Who schtick based on Tommy (Walker). 2 birds with that one

― francisF, Saturday, October 28, 2023 6:43 PM bookmarkflaglink

Christian Walker didn't come home
His unscored run will never know him
He's believed to be LOB with a number of men
Don't expect to see him again

brilliant! lolol

Even Garcia took some tough borderline pitches last night.

Everybody is talking about the homer.

I want to talk about the take.

It was the bottom of the third inning. The Rangers had coughed up an early 2-0 lead as the Diamondbacks’ speed tore some holes in their defense. A Corey Seager walk and an Evan Carter double brought Adolis Garcia to the plate with two outs and two on, down 3-2. Zac Gallen was 55 pitches into the game and had gotten just eight outs.

Gallen started Garcia with a changeup down, and Garcia caught the top of the ball, fouling it off. A couple of fastballs up and in put Gallen behind. He came back with a cutter middle-middle at 91, freezing Garcia to run the count to 2-2.

Now Gallen went to the pitch that was supposed to get him to the dugout, a knuckle curve that dropped under the zone and Garcia’s bat path. It’s the pitch that undercut Garcia earlier in his career. Back in 2021, he saw 223 breaking balls in the lower third or just below the zone. He swung at more than 60% of them and missed on 42% of those swings. He hit .143 with a .317 slugging on those pitches. Pitchers could go down with soft stuff and get him to chase.

Now, in 2023, he’s just enough better at those pitches to give himself a fighting chance. He chases those same breaking balls down a bit less, and when he does, he makes better contact: .250 average, .456 slugging. Overall, he’s posted the lowest chase rate and highest contact rate of his career. All of that work came to a head as Gallen’s 2-2 knuckle curve in the first game of the World Series began dipping out of the zone. Two years ago, it’s a swinging strike three. Tonight, it was ball three.

Garcia would then take a changeup low and walk down to first base. Mitch Garver drew a walk to force in a run to tie the game at three. We’ll never know how things play out in alternate timelines, but if Garcia chases that 2-2 breaker, the inning ends, the Rangers don’t score, and maybe we’re talking about how Corey Seager’s two-run homer was too little, too late. Maybe Garcia never even gets to take a 3-1 sinker oppo for a walkoff home run.

The home run is the highlight. The take, though, the take is all the work that went into making the highlight. Adolis Garcia is the player he is today not because he was DFA’d twice, he’s the player he is because of everything he did to get better after that.

great take by Sheehan.

Speaking of borderline, good lord everything Kelly threw was on the corner this series! I was disgusted in the Dodgers series how every diamondbacks pitcher seemed to be able to locate the edge of the zone (any edge) with literally every pitch and thought it was a fluke and just some bad luck to the Dodgers.... but they've just kept doing it this whole post season. It's exhilarating to watch (when it's not your team on the receiving end!)

I should clarify, it was the edges, not corners Kelly was living on last game. Can't wait for game 3 in snake country!

Xps re Garcia, I don’t know if you remember the Rangers series at Fenway but he pretty impressively showed this in real time during Bello’s game. He hit a home run off him and didn’t try for Bello’s changeup & instead cracked a 2-run homer off his sinker. But I looked back at his previous two ABs that game and the first one he was flailing at the low changeup and eventually struck out, second one was a flyout on a changeup. Sheehan otm with the significance basically.

I thought these were identical, but Jung's might be better; Robinson is able to throw without ever hitting the ground, whereas Jung has to first pick himself up

Jung, 2023: https://www.mlb.com/video/christian-walker-grounds-out-sharply-third-baseman-josh-jung-to-first-bas?partnerId=web_video-game-index-page_video-share

Robinson, 1970: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_XHZbhR9qc

Or else Robinson, like Devon White, is just better at making the impossible look routine.

There was a good piece about Evan Longoria’s bunt in the Athletic:

Longoria came to bat in the third inning, with no score, after Alek Thomas’ leadoff walk. He knew that Jordan Montgomery, the Rangers’ 6-foot-6 starter, is not a nimble fielder. Since he was struggling for hits, Longoria thought, why not bunt?

Here’s why: Longoria never bunts. Not in games, not in spring training, not even a courtesy bunt or two at the start of his batting practice rounds. In 8,395 previous plate appearances, postseason included, Longoria had exactly one sacrifice bunt, for the Tampa Bay Rays in 2014. And yet …

“I bunted so much in college; we just had to do it every day,” said Longoria, who played for Long Beach State. “So even if I hadn’t done it in forever, I feel like it’s a part of my toolbag.”

Longoria was bunting for a hit, he explained, and he didn’t get it. But he moved Thomas to second and got credit for a sacrifice. And when he came to bat in the seventh, after Thomas’ leadoff double, the Rangers remembered.

Third baseman Josh Jung moved up on Longoria, positioning himself on the edge of the dirt and the turf. He acknowledged that the third-inning bunt was on his mind.

“Yeah, just in case,” Jung said. “In hindsight, probably shouldn’t be up there. But that’s baseball. It happens.”

It happened in 1980, and it happened again on Saturday: Longoria smashed a single off Jung’s glove to bring Thomas home, pushing Arizona’s lead to 3-1. The hit chased Montgomery, and the Diamondbacks soon singled and bunted their way to six more runs.

Probably the most incredible part of Robinson's play in 1970 is how quickly he released the ball.

When I watch old clips I'm amazed at how much stronger shortstops and third baseman can throw compared with fielders from even 20 years ago. I think (not based on any evidence, just a feeling) that plays like Robinson's can't happen much anymore because *everyone* hits the ball much harder than in the 70's, there's just no time for a third baseman to cover that much ground.

Jung's play was the apex of modern day fielding at third -- the ball was *smoked*, he had to react much quicker, lay out, and unleash a ridiculous laser throw for the out.

(you can't cheat a bit by bouncing throws like in the 70's and 80's either, because almost nobody plays on turf anymore)

Nostalgia's a powerful drug, but yeah, I suspect just about every aspect of the game is played at a higher level today (except bunting, of course, Diamondbacks excepted).

(As I posted on the Blue Jays thread a while back--and I try not to even think about this--there's a very real possibility that Matt Chapman is a better player than Brooks Robinson.)

Players do get better over time, but I was also trying to say that certain skills get phased out while new skills develop. Older players might have been better at certain things, but only because modern players no longer need to master those skills (bunting is a perfect example).

Umpire Quinn Wolcott missed 12 calls in World Series Game 2 and 10 went against the Rangers.

Wolcott was the top rated regular season ump, but this was his 3rd worst game of the season.

He had a correct call rate of 91.2% (league avg. 92.5%). https://t.co/Nzbat08B7c pic.twitter.com/Zk99UbFfnO

— Umpire Auditor (@UmpireAuditor) October 29, 2023

Umpscorecard rates him similarly poorly but the info is much easier to understand IMO

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F9nSr8cWoAANtnf?format=jpg&name=large

yeah i posted the tweet because it had a video of the missed calls

every year they find a new way to pull this shit

i would honestly prefer they just start selling screen space over this imaginary AR experience. just slap a big coca cola logo in the bottom left of the screen and keep it there for 3 hours, whatever.

there were couple of kids in banana suits behind the AR capital one logo yesterday. on one hand, i felt kinda bad cuz those seats must have been 5 figures, spending that much just to get blacked out by capital one. on the other hand, obviously their parents could afford them so whatever, just a bunch of literal nepo babies.

Quinn Wolcott was secretly paying tribute to Joe West, nominated for the HOF last week.

Older players might have been better at certain things, but only because modern players no longer need to master those skills (bunting is a perfect example).

No sarcasm here, genuinely wondering what older players would have done better. Bunting, for sure--exponentially. Going the opposite way to move a runner along. Executing a hit-and-run. The list would heavily be weighted toward "small ball" strategies. Pitching? That's harder...maybe moving batters off the plate? I won't say pitching deep into a game, because a) it was a lot easier 50 years ago (maybe two or three HR threats per lineup instead of six or seven), and b) that's still the manager's call. Fielding, I don't know.

Older players were probably better at playing hungover.

Bouton...remembered Mickey Mantle, hungover on the bench, asked to pinch hit. Somehow, Mantle hit a homerun and dragged himself around the bases. “They’ll never know how hard that was,” Mantle said back in the dugout.

https://www.theattic.space/home-page-blogs/2020/5/8/the-book-that-befouled-baseball#:~:text=Enter%20Ball%20Four.,season%2C%20he%20told%20no%20one.

No sarcasm here, genuinely wondering what older players would have done better.

Modern players are better in general, but other skills have evolved, such as the small ball strategies you mentioned. Players today aren't asked to do those things, so they're not good at doing them.

For SP's, pacing oneself to be able to pitch into the late innings used to be important, but it's not anymore. It's not that older pitchers were better or tougher or more durable, it's just a different game now. In the 70's and 80's, most teams had 2-3 banjo hitters in the lineup and the SP didn't need to use his best stuff. That helps a lot for pitching late into games. It's obviously not like that anymore.

It's the same with hitters. Hardly anyone hits .300 anymore, why not? It's all about making hard contact now and there isn't a stigma around K's like there used to be. But it's also true (up until the 1990's and perhaps beyond) that if you knocked out the SP, you could feast on the bullpen. Now even the 12th pitcher on the staff throws 95. There are no banjo hitters or junkballing pitchers in the game. Hitting for average isn't a lost skill.

Maybe I got off topic here, but it's an interesting discussion.

The World Series meets Immaculate Grid:

https://www.mlb.com/news/all-30-teams-represented-in-2023-world-series

(I wonder if that's common or rare.)

just me or does every picture of chris young look computer generated?

https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2023/10/29223557/GettyImages-1762110225-1024x683.jpg

Chris Young is 6-10. This afternoon, MLB has had both Aaron Judge (6-7, Clemente winner) and Randy Johnson (6-10, throwing out the first pitch tonight) on their pre-game panel. No one asked either guy about Frank Howard (6-7), who died earlier today.

I have two or three of that Max rookie card they just flashed on the screen, bought pretty cheaply online just before he took off for the stratosphere in Washington.

2011 World Series: Rangers vs Cardinals

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I know--that's a board-wide thing.

JUNG

really felt like sherzer was on the ropes - quite a turnaround

I've probably encountered a better arm for a third baseman, but I don't remember who it was. (Is Arenado so great because of his arm? I hardly ever see him.)

(xpost) He doesn't seem long for this game.

That sure looked like strike three.

Probably tautological, but Texas has a great offense when they lay off low breaking balls (G1) and a terrible offense when they swing at them (G2).

wow this game changed in a hurry

smoltz saying as soon as semien took a ball the other way he’d get on track

semien pulls a ball into the gap, drives in the first run of the game

texas can really wreck shop

So much for Max.

at least the cut on his thumb has healed

If we get to game 7 and continue posting on rate, we might hit those 2011 numbers Clem!

Just tuning in now. Scherzer gave up no runs?!!!! How’s Pfaadt been? Smoltz not missing again? The man is on.

Mathematically, you might be right. Just felt like there was so much posting going on 12 years ago--maybe it was just more people doing the posting.

Man, that arm on Jung. No nickname yet; have to put a psychology-related nickname aside and go with something about his arm.

5.1 with 3 runs on this Texas team? Quality start in my books

xp It's hard to make a word play with "synchronicity" or "collective unconscious."