To What Extent Does Your Life Revolve Around Alejandro Kirk? (The 2023 Blue Jays Thread)

Yeah you will know the answer to this, but that info has got to be leaked, right? I don’t think anyone was really clamouring for it? And if it was leaked it’s presumably reflecting the official view of the player’s behaviour?

Some explanation, maybe--not good.

Alek Manoah never reported to Triple-A when he was optioned on August 11th because he was upset about the decision, per @SNJeffBlair

Manoah reportedly has not even been throwing bullpens or side sessions. It’s unlikely that he’ll pitch in a game again this year pic.twitter.com/P6y3Bw5xwD

— Talkin’ Baseball (@TalkinBaseball_) September 12, 2023

Weirdly enough, ties in with a David Wells rant making news.

https://nypost.com/2023/09/10/david-wells-on-how-to-fix-yankees-send-players-to-minors/

The team on the field...I'm back in whining, petulant mode. I'd down Friday for the Red Sox, and again on the 30th for Tampa. If they don't win these next two, that will very much dim some of the excitement for Friday, and the 30th will feel like a complete waste if the game's meaningless.

Sox are really bad atm so Blue Jays will probably win…You might see Brayan Bello pitching though & I’ll be really jealous if you do. (There is no starter currently named for Friday, think they are waiting to see if Sale will go Saturday.)

I'd like to see him, so hopefully the schedule will fall that way. I definitely don't want to see Chris Bassitt for the fourth time this year.

It's just the way he looks that makes this funny:

https://www.mlb.com/news/davis-scheider-hot-start-blue-jays-2023

Yeah that stache is hilarious for a 24 year old. He’s had some start.

I don’t get to watch the Jays often atm but what are your thoughts on Vladdy’s performance? Also, sorry to hear Belt is out again.

Disappointment--extreme. Yes, he's still young by normal standards (e.g., younger than all these guys who were just brought up from Syracuse), but to become what he was advertised as--a generational hitter--that's a different timetable; that window is fast closing. The thing that Steve Shasta posted about a month or two ago, how much his COVID time in the two minor-league parks skewed his numbers--something so obvious that I'd never clued into for some reason--has really made me rethink Vlad. I'm sure he'll still put together a pretty good career, but generational, I don't think so.

That piece on Schneider breaks down his success in really interesting ways. And no, I don't think he's generational either--maybe for another couple of weeks. (His mustache is, though.)Nobody that looks like that will continue to hit like Stan Musial; it defies the laws of baseball.

Am I more optimistic on him? I mean his dad played well into his thirties. The thing that seemed slightly concerning to me (limited sample size) is that he seems to be striking out a bit more and previously that was something he wouldn’t usually do, like he’d make some contact. He’s still extremely good and I’d expect him to get a big contract. But from watching Jays games this year Bo has been the team’s standout hitter for me.

xp yeah he might have had an explosive EDLC-like start and then either cools off or the league adjusts back to him. I read that the manager hasn’t been playing him every day (!) so that limited exposure might have been in his favour.

I finally figured out who he looks like: G. Gordon Liddy (possibly doing some illegal covert stuff for the CIA, hence the glasses).

Also: don't ask me why I'm resorting to an cliché like "generational." Kill that, along with "elite," and let's stick with some old standby like future Hall of Famer.

Just got home, down 4-0 already.

Davis is starting everyday now, I think he's sat only once this month, but was inexplicably being sat regularly at the end of August.

A lot of talk about Vlad (on broadcast, etc), is that Vlad's timing is off. Buck Martinez was breaking down how his hands/legs are not operating in sync last night. I can't remember Vlad being on a hot streak since '21, honestly. Just seems to be treading along, towing his bad mechanics behind him. Biggio and Clement have now passed him in fWAR. It's not his fault he was touted so highly as a "Generational Talent", but damn, he's not looking good, even compared to last year.

Jays just went down 0-4. The pitching just can't possibly keep this pace. So we'll see how these Buffalo-bolstered bats do tonight, but there's so little power, it's hard to truly believe in this team's chances: tonight, and definitely if they should make the playoffs.

xp

It's not his fault he was touted so highly

Definitely--no control over that. If Biggio had Vlad's numbers for his career, I'm sure we'd be very happy.

yeah i wasn't directing that at you btw, it's a *very* common thing to read online re: his disappointing trend downward from '21. Jays' media has obviously fed into the "our generation's Vlad" narrative in a huge way since he was signed. to expect that of someone is to be disappointed

I didn't think you were...Have you looked at those stats out of the two parks in Buffalo and Dunedin? Every Jays fan should. Honestly, I think you have to treat those numbers like you'd treat numbers out of Colorado in the late '90s.

how would i go about looking that up? didn't offensive numbers spike in 2021, also? my memory might be betraying me

*league-wide offensive numbers

I'll cut-and-paste from my post from a couple of weeks ago. It's all on Baseball Reference.

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When you look at Vlad's career box, 2021, his near-MVP season, really jumps out--it's the one season everyone continues to hang their hopes on.

But if you eliminate all those games played at Sahlen Field in Buffalo (2020 and 2021) and TD Ballpark in Dunedin (2021), there really is much more uniformity. His adjusted stats year-by-year:

Year        BA        OBP        SLG        OPS+
2019       .272      .339       .433        106
2020       .213      .288       .377         97
2021       .292      .375       .518        149
2022       .274      .339       .480        133
2023       .265      .342       .436        116

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So he still has a good year in 2021, but not anywhere near MVP-level.

thanks for that. i went looking for an article that isolated those stats for me:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/09/vladimir-guerrero-jr-s-unusual-replacement-level-season.html

Guerrero still had a .935 OPS in 152 PA at Rogers Centre in 2021, though even that impressive total paled in comparison to his numbers at the Blue Jays’ other two home ballparks that season — a 1.418 OPS in 96 PA at the Jays’ spring complex in Dunedin, or his 1.180 OPS in 98 PA at Buffalo’s Sahlen Field.

and another piece of the puzzle that I've followed this year:

a glimpse at Guerrero’s Statcast page would make one think that he is again an MVP candidate. Guerrero ranks in at least the 89th percentile in such key categories as strikeout rate, hard contact, barrels, expected batting average, expected on-base percentage, expected slugging percentage, exit velocity, and xwOBA. In fact, that latter statistic hints that Guerrero’s relative struggles this season have been due to horrid luck. No qualified player in baseball has a larger gap between their xwOBA and wOBA than Guerrero, whose elite .379 xwOBA has resulted in a much more modest .332 wOBA.

Blair and Barker have been talking about his hard-hit and barrel rate all year, wavering between "this promises better things ahead" and "at a certain point, who cares?" I don't know what to think about all that.

What a pathetic showing these last three games.

Such a depressing series. Outscored 26-7 at home. The Rangers were looking cooked a week ago, now they've won five in a row. They're now at 79 percent playoff odds, and the Jays are at 46 percent. I think those numbers were flipped before the series.

More Vlad Panic:

https://www.si.com/fannation/mlb/fastball/news/vladimir-guerrero-jr-of-the-toronto-blue-jays-has-significantly-worse-stats-against-the-good-teams-in-2023#:~:text=He's%20hitting%20.263%20this%20season,base%20percentage%20and%20111%20RBI.

No idea if that means anything--you'd have to check that over a few years. Guessing it's a blip.

But the booing last night--wasn't watching, read about it--was real. He's had a lot of goodwill on his side thus far. If the Jays miss the playoffs, which looks like a good bet right now, and he starts off slow next year, I expect fans will turn on him with a vengeance, whether deserved or not.

Friday night pitchers: Bello - Berrios. Have a good evening! Bello has had some blowouts but he’s hugely promising and is evolving all the time, he’s got a great changeup.

I'm that close--holds thumb and index finger 1 cm apart--to rooting for Bello.

This series has to rank with the franchise's all-time debacles, and we've had a few.

I think they have exactly one thing going for them at this point, something completely intangible and possibly even non-existent: my contention that as soon as you think you have something figured out when it comes to sports, that's when the exact opposite happens.

That's a very faint hope to cling to.

Pleased to see young Jays fans know ball
https://i.postimg.cc/y8rJLpzs/IMG-9526.png

Looked like Bello had a good game, minus that one hit ofc - Red Sox Stats was annoyed about the pitch as it’s been a problem for him for a while though (no slight on Vladdy, but why call for that pitch then).

From July:

Someone needs to explain to me why Bello throws his 4-seam fastball as much as he does and in the locations he does. I don’t get what they are doing.

— Red Sox Stats (@redsoxstats) July 19, 2023

Anytime Bello throws a 4-seamer below the belt it should be a 25 grand fine and 50 grand for whichever catcher calls for it.

— Red Sox Stats (@redsoxstats) September 16, 2023

It was a fast-moving, classic kind of old-fashioned game: starting pitching, one big HR, a little over two hours. Bello was good--had 9 strikeouts at one point. The highlight for me was Kirk legging out a double; he gave the most forlorn fist pump I've ever seen when he was called safe. I have a 2-hour+ drive home, so the quickness was a godsend; unfortunately wasted when I encountered overnight road work on the way home. (Half an hour to cover a kilometre.)

I was with my friend Howard, who I met almost 40 years ago at Nerve (Toronto music monthly). What do two old '80s rock critics talk about at a baseball game? Actual quote: "I wonder what Professor Griff is doing tonight?"

https://i.postimg.cc/bYG28yNn/game.jpg

10ks which is I think his most in a big league start! That Kirk run was very funny

We of course arrived too late to get our Berríos bobblehead on Roberto Clemente Day--you have to arrive hours ahead of time now to get free stuff. There was a guy sitting near us who had three, and I offered to buy one from him, but no interest. They're on eBay for $100.

Berrios was great--left after 7 innings/90 pitches with a 3-0 lead. I would have given him one runner in the 8th the way the bullpen's been lately, but worked out fine.

Was hoping you’d get to see Casas but unfortunately he’s injured and out for the season. Did you have any opinions on Abreu or Rafaela?

I was disappointed he wasn't in the lineup--had no idea about the injury.

I don't...honestly, I'm not the most observant person at a game. A lot of talk whoever I'm with. I missed a good play Bichette supposedly made because I was in search of coffee. Who is the Red Sox coach Hudson? He and Vladdy were chatting it up during a stoppage in play. They're actually 5-0 for the games I've seen this year. It's now a question of whether or not the Rays game I'm at on the 30th will mean anything or not.

Kyle Hudson - he’s new this season I think. He is notable for being the only infield coach whose name isn’t widely known, probably because he’s good at his job. I know that Vladdy’s grandmother makes food for visiting Dominican players so I bet Bello was very appreciative - Devers has said he looks forward to visiting Toronto.

The injury was just announced now, he was scratched yesterday.

The doomsayer in me fully expects them to lose this game--two missed chances to walk it off.

I read this comment about a second before Tracer Hand texted me to say “This is a Sox loss,” a comment which precedes a loss 100% of the time? And let’s just say his pessimism is more accurate than yours. Honestly a dire game to watch, neither team really doing much for it (a few amazing plays besides) and now both pens are gassed ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Sale looked great though!

Happiest guy in the world: Vlad. After a HOF baserunning blunder--didn't tag up on the first out in extra innings; would easily have got to third with one out--Merrifield won it on an infield single with two outs. Now they need some help.

My pessimism is partly game-playing with myself, meant to counteract the fact that I'm usually an optimist on the inside.

Thank you, Cleveland.

Thank you, Kansas City.

(I sound like Alanis Morissette.)

Tied for the third WC, and even though they lose the tiebreakers against both Seattle and Texas, that's something.

It was a miraculously ugly win though, hardly one of those days that makes you think they're ready to go on a run.

If it happens, it won't be a run, no. It'll be an Alejandro Kirk double. Wish I could find a screenshot of him standing on second base Friday night, half-heartedly (or maybe just in shock) holding up his hand in celebration.

I got u
https://i.postimg.cc/KcJ6ZZLT/IMG-9593.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/ncWND03c/IMG-9596.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/m2k0k0N5/IMG-9595.jpg
No closeups of him with the raised fist on either broadcast though

That's it--thank you! The expression on his face in the last shot sums up this season perfectly.

That was exhilarating...One pitch away from winning, Devers hits a game-tying HR, Chapman wins it with a walk-off double (that was almost caught) in the bottom of the inning. Biggio's been in the middle of everything the past few games.

Plus: Rangers lost, and Seattle's down 4-0 in L.A. (Houston won.) Quite improbable turnaround since Thursday's end-of-the-world feeling.

Good: it's again up to them.

Good: Seattle and Texas have seven games with each other.

Maybe good: six games against the Yankees. (Who knows what their mindset is?)

Bad: six games with the Rays.

Bad, good, no idea anymore: it's this team.

I’ve never identified with a player so much in my life

#BlueJays starter Yusei Kikuchi thinks he’ll be fine for his next start after he left the game with cramps. The biggest revelation was that he said it may have been caused by only getting 11 (!) hours of sleep last night instead of his usual 13 or 14 hours (!!)

— Kaitlyn McGrath (@kaitlyncmcgrath) September 20, 2023

a+ sleeper

Satchel Paige would approve.